mysterious fish losses

[Aquamarina]

Hello. I am becoming very concerned about the health of our aquarium, which we took over from the house's previous owners about 18 mos. ago. Up til April this year, everything seemed to be ok, except that the protein skimmer had not been working up to par for several months. We installed a new pump on May 14, and it has been functioning since.

April 27, yellow Tang found dead in tank. No outward signs of infection
(SG 1.022, nitrates 80, nitrites neg, Ammonia neg, pH 8.8)
May 24, ocellated clownfish found dead, no outward signs infection
(water test same results, except nitrates around 60--I have tried to reduce the amount fed)
May 29, pyjama cardinalfish obviously struggling, fins had been chewed on, died June 2
(On May 31, added Marine-Max, a disease prevention liquid)
Today, June 5, butterfly fish ill, fins nibbled on--moved to quarantine tank. Scales lighter in some areas, but no signs of white spots

The 10 fish and 2 stars remaining appear to be healthy and eat well. The tank is about 230 gal. capacity. The only odd thing I've noticed lately is that there is a white sediment left on the water surface and on the sides of the salt-water mixing tank. We use Instant Ocean salt. Feed is a variety of frozen cubes.

Any thoughts? Is there someone in this group that I could call to give me an on-site opinion in Bowness? As you may guess, our experience with salt water fish dates back only to the day we took possession of the house, so we still have a lot to learn!

Thanks.
Anne

[trilinearmipmap]

Well I am a noobie to saltwater in fact my tank has nothing in it yet but here is what I figure.

One, you pH is too high (8.8) .Figure out why your pH is so high, are you using some kind of additive to raise it?

Two, dont add meds, work on water quality. Get your nitrates down, they are a factor although perhaps not the sole cause of your problem. Consider an accelerated water change schedule for the next while e.g. 20% water changes twice a week for a few weeks, this ought to get your nitrates down and settle down your pH problem as well. Consider getting someone else (fish store or hobbyist) to test your aquarium water for all parameters, could your test kits be giving false readings?

Three, look at your source water. If you are using tap water get it tested. Does it have something in it (chloramines, copper/lead, elevated pH/mineral content, etc) that could be causing problems? Also look at whether you are adding any additives/conditioners/chemicals that may be unnecessary or harmful

Fourth, consider posting some pics of the fish. Magnify the digital photos and you may see something that is not apparent to the naked eye, posting pics on this board would probably get some answers.

Anyway that is how I would start to approach the problem, lets hear from someone who's got more experience than me though, I'm still waiting to fill up my tank with salt water.

[Ken]

Hi Anne, sorry to hear that you are having problems with your fishes. Sometimes it is a challenge to find out the mystery of why things are happening and you don't know where to go and find the answers, one thing for sure is not to add anything chemical if you're not sure what your trying to cure and not even add to the main tank. Possibly any chemical can destroy and damage your functioning biological bacteria, so move them to a hospital tank. Most of the time you should be enjoying your aquarium, isn't that what it is? Sit down relax and observe the interaction going on in the tank are the fishes alert, are the filters functioning properly,does something seem different from the day before, are the fishes getting along with each other or is one being bullied, etc. Watching observing are very important simple things to do. Do you feed them with good quality food? Were there new fish recently added? Did a filter malfunction and wasn't look at for repairs? Did the temperature suddenly escalated recently or dropped dramatically? You mention a very high PH reading, realized that as PH increases so does free ammonia NH3, the toxic ammonia can cause damages to fish membrane and stress. You mention a zero reading for ammonia but I would try another new kit just to be sure. The No3 is high and should be much lower. The protein skimmer should be functioning at its best at all time, meaning good foam production and clean column, I cannot stress the importance of this device as it is very important towards maintaining good water quality, good oxygen level. Check to see if overpopulation may be a factor as fish are becoming more teritorial. Water changes and good maintanence schedule goes a long way towards the fish health. Best of luck regards Ken

[Aquamarina]

I did have the water tested again last week at a fish store with the same results I had, and they suggested the Marine-Max (which I added once), and also Cupramine (a copper formulation) which I did not add, not knowing what the problem was. The fish have appeared to be as usual, until one suddenly looks ill. The remaining fish currently are behaving normally and appear normal, while the butterfly in the quarantine tank is still alive, but upside down this morning.

[Aquamarina]

More answers to above questions (having calmed down a bit!):
-I previously have used no additives at all, except what might be in the Instant Ocean salt
-Water changes, up to this month, were 10% once monthly and seemed to be sufficient. I have done 5-10% changes after each death. I thought the newly mixed salt water had to sit for a week before it could be used...?
-Water temp is in normal bounds (now 81.2), although this week I have reduced the amount of time the lights are on, because the house became warmer.
-No new fish have been added for many months. On the shop person's recommendation, I did add one small live rock this week, as all the rock in the tank is lava stone.
-As mentioned, the protein skimmer was not working properly for awhile, and I was busy adjusting the flow every week, not realizing the pump was defective. The new pump was installed on May 16 (the tower looked pretty clean), and I have cleaned it again today with tap water only.
-Other filtration: bio balls
-Fish food is frozen cubes Hikari/Kyorin of various sorts (Mysis shrimp, plankton, mega marine algae/angel, squid, bloodworms). I feed a selection of each once daily: eg. 4 small cubes for 10 fish (butterfly, 3 yellow tangs, trigger, clown, tomato clown, blue damsel, zebra damsel, cowfish). They seem to eat all the food in 5 minutes. Occasionally, I give them nori.

[EmilyB]

You have a beautiful home and an awesome system ! :biggrin:

Just as a follow-up for everyone, the alkalinity of the new saltwater, and the tank was so far off the chart, I didn't know how to calculate it :eek: (1.5 syringes approximately for anyone wanting to do the calculation for me :redface: ) The tank was probably gradually climbing with each water change.

Why don't LFS check for alkalinity ? :evil:

Anyway, this might be traceable back to the bad batch of IO salt. I suggested sending back a sample for testing, new salt and a gradual reduction in Alk which maybe you guys can help with.

Anne and David, please let us all know how things go. :biggrin:

[Aquamarina]

We are so very grateful to Emily B. for dropping by. We acquired a bucket of Kent from her, and after cleaning out the salt water holding tank and making new s/w, I did a 10% change yesterday evening and again this morning. I will do another one this evening. BTW, how often should I do changes given the fact that a damsel and a clown are still missing, presumably dead somewhere in the tank?

The cowfish, trigger, and a tomato clown have gradually improved since this am, and are eating from the handybandy nori feeder I made from Emily B.s instructions! (Can I reuse it if it dries out?) The 3 Tangs were the only fish that seemed unaffected by the high pH. The butterfly fish is still in the quarantine tank, and has given up the whirligigs it was doing this am. It is now mostly vertical and right way up, but not eating yet. I have replaced 3 juice jugs of water from its 20 gal tank each time I did the big tank changes.

I wrote to J&L where I got the salt from, and they confirmed it was probably one of the bad batch. So I will contact IO directly now, as they will make some kind of reparation.

Breathing easier and very pleased to know such kind people,
Anne

[trilinearmipmap]

Just wondering when the bad batch was sold, I got a bucket of IO from J & L maybe 6 or 8 weeks ago, was the bad batch before that?

[Aquamarina]

J&L told me that about 24 pails of IO produced last June, 03 were extremely highly alkaline. I ordered 2 pails last summer and am now about 3/4 through the second pail. I did order another pail last month, and will prob. mix it, test for pH before adding it to the main tank, leave it a week or more, and make sure it isn't leaving sediment on the sides of the glass. J&L have assured me they have heard of no further problems with this product.

[EmilyB]

Oh, and get a Pinpoint pH monitor I would say. You can look at ours when you come over. :biggrin:

[AJ_77]

Breathing easier and very pleased to know such kind people, Anne
She's not called the Em-issary for nothing... :mrgreen:

Nice to hear things are turning around for you!
:biggrin:

Think I went through a small batch of that sand myself... :evil:

[trilinearmipmap]

I'm hoping J & L would at least refund you or give you free pails of salt.

Did the company that makes Instant Ocean salt take any responsibility for this? IMO they should cover people's losses if their product caused so much destruction.

[Aquamarina]

I haven't heard back from Instant Ocean yet. Hopefully I will!

We are down to 7 fish now, and the butterly fish has been returned to the main tank and its raw areas seem to be healing. The pH is still high (my tester only goes to 8.8) and we have done 9 water changes since Sat. The fish look a lot better!

Once the water is back to normal, we would like to replace some of the fish that we have lost--probably from J & L. How many fish would you quarantine at a time in a 20 gal tank? (The fish we want: 1 lunar wrasse, 2 oc. clowns, 2 blue damsels, 1 zebra damsel +?)

What are the quarantine methods that the group uses?

[Quinn]

Look into compatibility issues associated with lunar wrasses, large wrasses in general actually, and the cautions that people tend to give when discussing damsels.

[EmilyB]

It's a FO tank so the fish selection is fine. :biggrin:

I would be a bit concerned about keeping the damsels and clowns in such a small space, the damsels could get pretty snarly with them. If you could put in some hiding spots, pvc pipes etc you might get by.

I'm sure you could deal with it in any event. :smile:

[Aquamarina]

Hi. I am very pleased to report that Instant Ocean has sent me a cheque for replacing the fish I lost, also for the future 2 delivery charges from J&L, and for 2 buckets of salt which were used for the twice daily changes.

The butterfly fish didn't eat for at least a week after being in the quarantine tank as its mouth was obviously injured (transparent with a red streak) from the alkalinity, but now all the fish are back to good health. I have adjusted their feed to include more nori and spirulina flake, according to Emily B's recommendations.

Thanks so much for the help and moral support!

Anne

[MitchM]

Fantastic! :cool:

Great job, Em!

Mitch

[EmilyB]

:cool: Once in a while you can make a difference.

Anne, it's time to come over and see the new in wall tank ! I have two chocolate stars cleaning there because I learned that from you !! :mrgreen: