Didn't bother going any further with the test...

[spit.fire]

And the battle begins.
Time to start running biopellets and dosing haha

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a171/tyty_220/59A234E0-5464-4FBC-9E51-591EFC5367DF-519-0000005B2C7F9D34_zps5c4f9de8.jpg

[Aquattro]

Ya, you're a bit past testing at that point :)

[kien]

Yikes! I would've still been curious as to whether or not you could get a reading out of that LOL.

Also, do you run GFO?

[spit.fire]

Yikes! I would've still been curious as to whether or not you could get a reading out of that LOL.

Also, do you run GFO?

Nope, the system is 300g so it would get expensive, I think I'm gonna start dosing vinegar once I figure out how much... Also just upgraded my skimmer to an orca 250

[albert_dao]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL, I almost forgot about this moment of hilarity.

[spit.fire]

I blame the long spine urchin... Just because I don't like him and he gets in my way

[kien]

I blame the long spine urchin... Just because I don't like him and he gets in my way

He sounds like a real prick!

.. Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week. Tip your waitress on the way out.

[HaZRaTTy]

He sounds like a real prick!

.. Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week. Tip your waitress on the way out.

:lol: You can't pay for this quality!!

[whatcaneyedo]

Have you tested nitrate as well?

[PFoster]

i run phosban on our +1000g systems. Once your PO4 is low it really does not take much to maintain it there.

Personally I much rather prefer using phosban over biopellets.

[don.ald]

i run phosban on our +1000g systems. Once your PO4 is low it really does not take much to maintain it there.

Personally I much rather prefer using phosban over biopellets.

How much do you run in a 1000+ system?

[PFoster]

2 inches of the Fauna Marin Power Phos in a TLF phosban 150.
Thats it.

We do not have a high fish bioload, but insane coral load.

[asylumdown]

If you get the bulk GFO it's not that bad, it's the process of getting phos levels down that burns through it quickly, but once it's down you don't go through that much. If you've had high phosphate for a while, you're going to have to keep changing the absorbing media until it stops leaching from your rocks, but once you're there, easy peasy. With levels that high, I'd bet you'll need to change your phos media every day to two days for a week or so just to get the levels down to the 0.03-0.00 range, and you'll probably burn through GFO faster than you'd like for the next few weeks-months, but it will eventually level out. Watch out for stress to your corals though, as sudden changes in phosphate levels isn't their favourite thing in the world.

And as stated, phosphate removing substrate such as GFO is a way better bet for phosphates than biopellets, unless you're starting with nitrate levels 16 times higher than your phosphate levels. Biopellets can only consume nitrate and phosphate according to the Redfield ratio of C:N:P at 106:16:1 The biopellets supply essentially a limitless amount of carbon, so it's the nitrogen phosphorous balance that you have to worry about in how effective pellets will be, with phosphorous being the least utilized molecule in the process.

In most cases (and yours, most likely), people have phosphate well in excess of the redfield ratio relative to nitrates, so after the biopellets reduce nitrate to trace/undetectable levels, they're left with the balance of phosphates that can only be brought down by GFO. I've been running Biopellets since day one, and without GFO, my phosphates can climb as high as 0.08ppm (tested by hanna), while my nitrates stay undetectable.

For the record though, even 1.2ppm phosphates in the hanna checker test vial (the highest I've seen with my checker) doesn't produce a colour change that the human eye can detect, so are you sure you didn't accidentally mix in some powdered plant fertilizer instead of the hanna reagent?

[Madmak]

I think you need to run that test for us, just for kicks. It is likely out of range for the Hanna unit but it would be neat to know what level bright blue is. ;)

[lastlight]

Biopellets can only consume nitrate and phosphate according to the Redfield ratio of C:N:P at 106:16:1

Learn something new everyday thanks for that. Makes a ton of sense and makes us sound like mad scientists too which is a nice bonus.

[kien]

translation: biopellets suck at stripping P04.

[spit.fire]

Learn something new everyday thanks for that. Makes a ton of sense and makes us sound like mad scientists too which is a nice bonus.

What about vodka or vinegar

[spit.fire]

I think you need to run that test for us, just for kicks. It is likely out of range for the Hanna unit but it would be neat to know what level bright blue is. ;)

We were afraid it would start smoking and light on fire

[spit.fire]

This may sound dumb but... From what I understand if I raise my bioload, biopellets will be more effective at removing phosphates?

[Madmak]

This may sound dumb but... From what I understand if I raise my bioload, biopellets will be more effective?

That is true by coincidence. Fish and fish food typically add more Nitrates than Phosphates so it balances that ratio mentioned above.

With Phosphates that high and pellets you may need to dose liquid Big-Macs and Pop-Tarts for a few weeks. ;)

[kien]

liquid Big-Macs

Do these exist? PLEASE TELL ME MOAR!!!!1111!!!eleven!!!11!

[Lance]

In most cases (and yours, most likely), people have phosphate well in excess of the redfield ratio relative to nitrates, so after the biopellets reduce nitrate to trace/undetectable levels, they're left with the balance of phosphates that can only be brought down by GFO. I've been running Biopellets since day one, and without GFO, my phosphates can climb as high as 0.08ppm (tested by hanna), while my nitrates stay undetectable.




Same here. I find running Biopellets and GFO the best way to go with my tank. By running both I can keep PO4 and NO3 at satisfactory levels. I use about 750ml of GFO and have to change it out about every 5 to 6 weeks before PO4 levels start creeping up.

[freezetyle]

Hanna checkers top out at 2.50. so my guess is thats what value would come up. i would probably do the biopellet/vinegar method and then just run that combined with gfo after your levels drop out a bit. that way you can at least save some money on gfo while things drop.

[FragIt Dan]

Vodka, vinegar and biopellets all add carbon into your system, which is a limiting nutrient for bacteriological growth. The bacteria then grow much faster taking up Nitrogen, Phosphate and the added carbon in the process. Whether you add the carbon as vodka or biopellets has little to no effect on the rate of bacterial growth, and thus the uptake and removal of the nutrients by your skimmer.

What about vodka or vinegar

[spit.fire]

So where does one buy bulk gfo? Say like 5g of it :s

[PFoster]

I dont normally recommend using chemicals but if your PO4 is that high I would probably get some Phos down (sorry this is probably the wrong name, I know its a liquid product from Seacare) to dose to the tank to reduces your PO4 as its so high.

Then use a good quality GFO.
Fauna Marin and Rowa would be the two best product then TLF IMO

[spit.fire]

So operation po4 b gone has officially started

There is officially almost no sand left in my tank

[TimT]

Hi,

Patrick is correct that I use and produce Foz Down for Phosphate Removal. Thanks Patrick :)

IME Using Foz Down to bring down excessive Phosphates is the quickest, easiest and most economical method. If your phosphate is >2.5 then your rocks probably have bound up Phosphate as well. As you lower your Phosphate levels the rocks will release it back into the water. I would recommend using Foz Down to eliminate the Phosphate and then you can use your method of choice to keep it low.

If you have any questions I would be glad to answer them.

Cheers,
Tim

[Duker]

Don't forget though, if you use a chemical phosphate remover you will need filter socks to catch the precipitate. The chemical Po4 removers remove it fast, but there will be some precipitate that will collect in ur sump and the water will probably go a little cloudy from the precipitate forming. I would get two or three socks to switch change them out every other day, rinse them,hang them to dry and repeat. Good luck with the Po4 battle, stay diligent, u will win in the end!

[spit.fire]

Instead of lowering the phosphates I'm gonna leave them as is...

I've decided to shut the tank down and go to a smaller system
From 300g total system volume to a 135 g tank (72x24" footprint) and start fresh with the battle, ill still be fighting it with the Rock as most of the rock will be reused but I'm gonna go with new sand (course sand and about 1/2" thick

[Mandosh]

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/hsh/3634254116.html

[spit.fire]

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/hsh/3634254116.html

That's the one I'm hoping to buy haha

Figure if its not scratched ill pick it up, drill it, rebuild the stand to be more accessible build overflow boxes etc

[PFoster]

Honestly this is not a difficult problem to fix.
Foz down will reduce your PO4 to zero crazy fast and then its pretty easy to maintain them there.

Seems like its a bit of a shame to shut down for a problem so easy to fix.

[liz]

Is Foz Down just lanthanum chloride?

[spit.fire]

I'm not shutting down because of phosphates lol

Shutting down to downsize, ill still be fighting the problems with a new system from reusing the liverock.

Honestly I'm going to a smaller tank because I want to do a higher end reef tank and IMO it will be easier to maintain on a smaller scale. ATM my tank is basically a fish only tank with some cheap corals and a few anemones

I'm wanting to go to a mix reef with mainly sps and zoas and a few pieces of nicer lps

By selling this system ill have enough money to set up a proper reef minus the lights but I can throw my halides over it for now until I get some nice LEDs

[PFoster]

Sounds like a pretty decent plan then.

I would "cook" the rock, and no i do not mean put it in the oven at 350 lol
Do a quick google search for the method but it should help you shed algae and reduce the phosphates for when the new tank is set up.
The whole process takes about 6 weeks and if a bit of a PITA but well worth it IMO.

[spit.fire]

Sounds like a pretty decent plan then.

I would "cook" the rock, and no i do not mean put it in the oven at 350 lol
Do a quick google search for the method but it should help you shed algae and reduce the phosphates for when the new tank is set up.
The whole process takes about 6 weeks and if a bit of a PITA but well worth it IMO.

I've got a 55g barrel in my garage full of cooked rock

Tbh I have almost no algae growth in that tank

I clean my glass once a month, I'm hoping to do the tank swap in 2 weeks which gives me time to drill and plumb a new tank but no time for cooking

Unfortunately in order to avoid cycleing ill have to reuse the po4 filled water and the rock if I'm gonna do the swap in a weekend (new tank is going in the same spot as the old one)

Hardest part is gonna be moving the 650lb 8' tank out of the way on my own

Some of the more expensive fish will be moved into my frag tank while the move is going on in order to avoid expensive losses that can happen with any new tank swap

Either that or they'll all live in a 300g stock tank until I know the tank is ready