Dan's Jelly "Pseudokreisel"

[Youngster Dan]

Hi Everyone!

Well, it's my girlfriends birthday coming up and she loves jellyfish. I don't mean that in a "I love pizza it's great" kind of way either - she seriously loves jellyfish. Sometimes I think it's a little disturbing, and then I realize that I am way worse when it comes to corals etc.

So, why not build her a jelly pseudokreisel (PK)! For those who are unfamiliar with PKs, they are specifically designed tanks that allow for circular water movement with no corners. Jellies suck at swimming and will get stuck in a regular aquarium -- that's why when you go to a public aquarium you see all these fancy tanks with the jellies.

For interest sake, a "kreisel" has water being pushed down from the top center as part of the return and upwards via closed loops along the side to create two circular flow patterns on either side of the tank.

Here is an example from the monteray bay aquarium.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/monterey-aquarium-jellyfish-tank-california-canon-eos-7d-18-135mm-jason-hunt_zpsfdde0ec1.jpg

A "pseudokreisel" also does a circular current -- but rather than two on either side there is just one circular current.

I can easily obtain moon jellies ephyra (baby jellyfish) but they would eventually outgrow my planned aquarium. Moon jellies:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Moon_zpsa95cc490.jpg

But what I really want are some sea gooseberries or "ctenophores"

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/gooseberry_zps8fcd6c5c.jpg

The ctenophores are her favorite type of jelly, and mine as well. I think they would also do much better on the size of my planned PK.

In my subsequent posts I'm going to show you what I plan, and we will go from there! I'm excited :biggrin:

[fishoholic]

Cool, it should be an interesting build :biggrin:

[daplatapus]

Very cool. They have a couple pretty cool setups at the ocean discovery centre.

[subman]

:pop2:

[Youngster Dan]

So, my thought process is to mimic the general designs of Innovative Marine's Nuvo series. I think they are very smart tanks, and I plan on utilizing their skimmers, filter compartment thingies and their slick look.

Everything is acrylic, and the main tank components are going to be 1/2" thick, with everything else being 1/4". All parts will be black except the front where you see jellies.

Here is how the aquarium will look head on:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Screenshot2013-02-27at95517PM_zps945e8753.png

Pretty simple - jellies and circles go together like, uhhh peanut butter and jelly.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Screenshot2013-02-27at95656PM_zps22c9f19c.png

Now that I hide the fake front panel - you can see the basic tank design. The return is not shown, but will be a lockline spray nozzle that loops over the tank and runs parallel to that little square thing on an angle that you see on the top left. I plan on using a maxi-jet 1200 for my return. The little hole will be covered with mesh that will allow water through -- but no jellies. Having the spray nozzle angled parallel to this screen prevents the jellies from getting stuck on it.

I plan on bending a piece of 1/4" acrylic over a 24" diameter PVC pipe. I'm not sure how it will work, but fingers are crossed!!

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Screenshot2013-02-27at95712PM_zps80e690a4.png

The back has two holes drilled for a closed loop beer fridge chiller. I haven't gotten to how I am going to convert a beer fridge into a chiller yet, and if you have suggestions or tips I would love to hear it! I want to keep the temperature at around 10-13 degrees celcius.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Screenshot2013-02-27at95723PM_zpsf9f29409.png

From left to right the "sump" goes: Return + live rock or bio-balls/something, nuvo filter, nuvo protein skimmer + overflow.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/YoungsterDan/Screenshot2013-02-27at95817PM_zps3ba6d0c6.png

A top down kind of view.

Thoughts? Holy my brain hurts. Also, learning sketchup was fun but also kind of a pain at times!

[monocus]

use a heat gun to bend your acrylic

[syncro]

Cool plans.

Have you considered moving the right baffle up so the water flows through the entire sump?

So the water comes over the overflow, down under the first baffle, over the second baffel and then pumped back into the tank.

[lastlight]

Sounds like one heck of a DIY adventure I'm looking forward to more!

I tried making a beer fridge cooler once but it failed. I looped a ton of plastic tuning in it but it didn't work very well. I later read that you really do need the titanium loop found in real chillers to make it semi efficient. Also the compressors in these fridges aren't made to be worked so hard and die pretty quickly. Just what I'd read before I bought a real chiller. Hopefully you have better luck!

[Youngster Dan]

use a heat gun to bend your acrylic

Yeah, that was the plan. Have you done it before? Any tips?

Cool plans.

Have you considered moving the right baffle up so the water flows through the entire sump?

So the water comes over the overflow, down under the first baffle, over the second baffel and then pumped back into the tank.

Good catch, I will definitely move that baffle up! Much appreciated :biggrin:

Sounds like one heck of a DIY adventure I'm looking forward to more!

I tried making a beer fridge cooler once but it failed. I looped a ton of plastic tuning in it but it didn't work very well. I later read that you really do need the titanium loop found in real chillers to make it semi efficient. Also the compressors in these fridges aren't made to be worked so hard and die pretty quickly. Just what I'd read before I bought a real chiller. Hopefully you have better luck!

Hmmm, I really haven't put much thought into the chiller side of things yet. I could always buy one, but they are just so expensive that it wouldn't be for a while. Do you know if you can get the titanium loops somewhere cheap?

I think I could get away with running the water closer to 15 degrees but don't know if I would want to get it any higher than that.

[Youngster Dan]

Very cool. They have a couple pretty cool setups at the ocean discovery centre.

Yeah they do! These tanks are where I got my inspiration :)

[Duker]

This is going to be bad ass! Love it, ill help u guys collect the jellies....yippee let's go diving!!
Hey I think Joel still has a 1/2 hp refurbished chiller at progrow. Good deal too if I recall.

[Youngster Dan]

This is going to be bad ass! Love it, ill help u guys collect the jellies....yippee let's go diving!!
Hey I think Joel still has a 1/2 hp refurbished chiller at progrow. Good deal too if I recall.

You know I am in!

Do you know how much he wants for that chiller? You may have solved my problem.

[monocus]

just go slowly, moving the heat gun at a medium pace.it will take time.you can also heat the acrylic in a moderately heated oven first

[sphelps]

I'd use an oven for the bending, a heat gun on that size of sheet will likely give less than steller results.

170°C should work well for cast material but don't use a gas oven. For best results build a wood mold with the right curvature and place the sheet on top of it in the pre-heated oven. The sheet will form around it by itself.

[paddyob]

Hi Everyone!

Well, it's my girlfriends birthday coming up and she loves jellyfish. I don't mean that in a "I love pizza it's great" kind of way either - she seriously loves jellyfish.:


You must seriously love her. Lol


Following.

[ScubaSteve]

Jealous. I've been wanting to do this for years.

Go with thick acrylic for the front viewing plane to avoid condensation problems.

With the overflow, make the top of the screen below the top edge of the tank. That way when (and not if) that screen ever gets plugged, the water can over flow past the screen and into the back, rather than onto the floor.

Where is the inlet coming from back into the tank?

Check out this guy's plantonkreisel design: http://www.biolbull.org/content/204/1/68.full.very nice in that the inlet creates a laminar flow over the outlet screen which prevents jellies from getting stuck on the screen.

[nerdz]

Hi

in case you haven't seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FZVGw1d63w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Youngster Dan]

You must seriously love her. Lol


Following.

Yeah, she is alright :biggrin:

It helps when you get to do a sweet aquarium for a birthday gift and not something lame.

Jealous. I've been wanting to do this for years.

Go with thick acrylic for the front viewing plane to avoid condensation problems.

With the overflow, make the top of the screen below the top edge of the tank. That way when (and not if) that screen ever gets plugged, the water can over flow past the screen and into the back, rather than onto the floor.

Where is the inlet coming from back into the tank?

Check out this guy's plantonkreisel design: http://www.biolbull.org/content/204/1/68.full.very nice in that the inlet creates a laminar flow over the outlet screen which prevents jellies from getting stuck on the screen.

Thanks for the link! I'm hoping 1/2" is enough for the condensation, but maybe for that panel I should go thicker?

Hi

in case you haven't seen this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FZVGw1d63w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks!

[Youngster Dan]

just go slowly, moving the heat gun at a medium pace.it will take time.you can also heat the acrylic in a moderately heated oven first

Cool, I tried on a small piece of scrap acrylic and was pretty impressed with how easy it was to bend.

I'd use an oven for the bending, a heat gun on that size of sheet will likely give less than steller results.

170°C should work well for cast material but don't use a gas oven. For best results build a wood mold with the right curvature and place the sheet on top of it in the pre-heated oven. The sheet will form around it by itself.

I have a piece of large 24" PVC that I was going to use to bend the acrylic around as a mold. I don't know if I could fit it in an oven, but I do think that method is definitely better than the heat gun.

[Youngster Dan]

So I went into my local plastics shop to get my acrylic and was in for a bit of a shocker. I was quoted something close to 600-700 bucks for the 1/2" acrylic. I knew it was going to be expensive, maybe getting close to 400 range but was not prepared to hear that.

So, the main box is now going to be 1/2 glass! I feel like this may get condensation problems during warm days, but frig acrylic aint cheap!

I have my order in for the glass, and will use acrylic for the fake front and the overflow (and of course for the curvy bit as well).

[KevinK]

So I went into my local plastics shop to get my acrylic and was in for a bit of a shocker. I was quoted something close to 600-700 bucks for the 1/2" acrylic. I knew it was going to be expensive, maybe getting close to 400 range but was not prepared to hear that.

So, the main box is now going to be 1/2 glass! I feel like this may get condensation problems during warm days, but frig acrylic aint cheap!

I have my order in for the glass, and will use acrylic for the fake front and the overflow (and of course for the curvy bit as well).

Dan, call these guys in coombs:http://www.demxx.com/

i was there 2 weeks ago, and thy had some nice slabs, still with the protective sheeld on it, it was 1 or 1 1/4 thick

When you call, thel them the slabs where in the back left shelter, standing straight up, thy had several sizes.

i cant find the paper, how much thy wanted for it, I wrote it down somewhere.

Cant hurt to call, and if thy have them still, have them send you pictures of it.

i do know thy come down to vic once a week or so.

There might be a good deal, also for 1/4 and 1/2 inch

[KevinK]

Dan, call these guys in coombs:http://www.demxx.com/

i was there 2 weeks ago, and thy had some nice slabs, still with the protective sheeld on it, it was 1 or 1 1/4 thick

When you call, thel them the slabs where in the back left shelter, standing straight up, thy had several sizes.

i cant find the paper, how much thy wanted for it, I wrote it down somewhere.

Cant hurt to call, and if thy have them still, have them send you pictures of it.

i do know thy come down to vic once a week or so.

There might be a good deal, also for 1/4 and 1/2 inch


Check the pictures, it is 50% off http://www.demxx.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=17

[Borderjumper]

Wow Kevin, they have some cool stuff!

[KevinK]

Wow Kevin, they have some cool stuff!

Sometimes you gust have to snif around, not healthy, thy have to much stuf from what I think, hmmm, I can build this from it,

Same with the acrylick, I wrote pricing down, in case I wanted to build something, but it got lost in, I dont know where.

But in dans case, it might be worth to gust drive up there and sniff, maybe the entire build could end upcin less than $250

The drive up is faster than you think



Ting is, at this time dan wants thicker in the front to avoid condensation,

But than the side and back might start dripping.


One thing to think about might be to set the entire thing in a plywood box, with 1 inch space between side and bottom, and before putting it in, drill each 8 inch or so, holes all around, and than when you placeit in, sprayfoam the entire box.

This to insulate the box, and to avoid condensation on the back and sides.

Thing is, and often overlocked isthe heat penetration / heat loss of a tank threw the sides, I think we all could save 20 to 30% on heating and in dans case cooling, when all sides of a tank that ar not for locking threw, ar insulated well

And as he has to cool afair bit, saving a $ on the cooling, as well as saving the chiller by constantly cicking in would not be to bad

[saltcreep]

Love it, ill help u guys collect the jellies....yippee let's go diving!!

Do your homework on this. I think you may need permits from DFO for collection of jellies. I know of someone else that did this and they were required.

[Youngster Dan]

Sometimes you gust have to snif around, not healthy, thy have to much stuf from what I think, hmmm, I can build this from it,

Same with the acrylick, I wrote pricing down, in case I wanted to build something, but it got lost in, I dont know where.

But in dans case, it might be worth to gust drive up there and sniff, maybe the entire build could end upcin less than $250

The drive up is faster than you think



Ting is, at this time dan wants thicker in the front to avoid condensation,

But than the side and back might start dripping.


One thing to think about might be to set the entire thing in a plywood box, with 1 inch space between side and bottom, and before putting it in, drill each 8 inch or so, holes all around, and than when you placeit in, sprayfoam the entire box.

This to insulate the box, and to avoid condensation on the back and sides.

Thing is, and often overlocked isthe heat penetration / heat loss of a tank threw the sides, I think we all could save 20 to 30% on heating and in dans case cooling, when all sides of a tank that ar not for locking threw, ar insulated well

And as he has to cool afair bit, saving a $ on the cooling, as well as saving the chiller by constantly cicking in would not be to bad

Thanks for that! I think in general there is some awesome stuff up there, worth checking out.

As for the box insulated with foam -- I think that is a fantastic idea and I might look into doing that. Initially I wanted it to be nice and slick with the acrylic, but the insulation may be considerably more practical.


Do your homework on this. I think you may need permits from DFO for collection of jellies. I know of someone else that did this and they were required.

I did call DFO, and my general experience with them is along the lines of "What, jellies? Uhh.. I have no idea" It could be the people who I have talked to so far. As far as I know, besides the Discovery Center in Sidney, I would be the only person on the island looking at collecting jellies in the Victoria area. I think jellies are low on the radar when it comes to the DFO, they have bigger fish to fry so to speak.

I think that we may use this PK for raising clowns in the short term -- and I think it would be ideal for that type of application.