Any tips on where to obtain captive bred mandarinfish/dragonet?

[mandyplo]

While my tank is empty and quickly building up a copepod population, I'd like to add a mandarin first. My tank has almost been fallow for 7 weeks (3 more weeks to go) and I'm starting to look into purchasing a mandarin fish.

I'm looking to spend the extra $$ on a captive bred to lower my chances of losing one of these beautiful fish. I've always wanted to give one a go but having an immature tank and feeling nervous about my other fish giving it a hard time I patiently waited until the time was right. My tank is now over a year old, and after endless hours of reading and trying to learn as much as I can about them I think I'm ready (though we are never really ready!)

I don't even know where to start looking for one. My issue as always, is that I live in a secluded town (Thunder Bay, Ontario) far from any big cities so shipping is always a hassle. Does anyone know of any online stores that carry captive bred mandarins in Canada who would be able to ship to Ontario?
The only place I have found so far is www.reefaquatica.com They have a green spotted captive bred mandarin right now. I will probably scoop this guy up if I can't find any other shops online who sell them. I would prefer a blue mandarin over the green spotted however....

Thanks guys hoping someone can give me a few leads.

[paddyob]

I have heard mixed reviews on captive bred mandarins. They are bloody expensive for one.

No guarantee they will do any better. I had talked to a local LFS that brought them in once from ORA I "think" and they said they would never again.

[mandyplo]

I have heard mixed reviews on captive bred mandarins. They are bloody expensive for one.

No guarantee they will do any better. I had talked to a local LFS that brought them in once from ORA I "think" and they said they would never again.

Thanks paddy. The green spotted that I linked was from ORA also. Maybe I will just try my hand at a wild caught one as I feel they would do fine in my copepod filled tank anyways if I had trouble getting them to eat prepared foods. Any tips on where I could purchase a mandarin then period, tank raised or not?

[ckmullin]

Thanks paddy. The green spotted that I linked was from ORA also. Maybe I will just try my hand at a wild caught one as I feel they would do fine in my copepod filled tank anyways if I had trouble getting them to eat prepared foods. Any tips on where I could purchase a mandarin then period, tank raised or not?

I've seen in at least 1 LFS here in Calgary. Dunno if they ship or stuff like that. If you want I'll pm you their details.

[paddyob]

One last thing. How big is your system? You need a good sized tank. If what I understand is your tank is new, wait. Until at least 6 months. In anything under say 40-50 gallons the Mandy will obliterate your pods. If you have never had one before, research. Research. Then research some more.

Even captive bred, I was told, revert back to pods from prepared over time. So if you lose your pods you lose the fish.

Green spotted are, however, much hardier than greens. I had a green
In the past eat frozen everyday. But my green would not touch it.

Spotted will also feed on flatworms in your tank. Which is great.

[darb]

J and L has mandarins in, not sure if they are ORA, but they did just get an ORA order in ...

[reefwars]

One last thing. How big is your system? You need a good sized tank.

i dont completely agree with that, at least the tank size part anyway, a mature tank goes alot farther then a tank of a large size , according to this logic the three mandarins ive had for a long time should have cleared out my tank (25g)and be skinny and starving

i dose several types of copepods, live phytoplankton twice a day to feed the pods and all three of my mandarins are fat as any ive seen.

not so much the size of the tank but making sure you can supply the food is the key, mandarins/dragonettes arnt as hard as they were to keep years ago....same with alot of difficult fish as rearing their food is getting easier too.

having a large live food population is one of the most important things , lots of food means less stress, better health,and territory aggression is very little compared to fish who have to fight and hunt heavy for food.


besides feeding the mandarins you need to feed their food too;)


hth

cheers

denny

[paddyob]

You are preaching to the choir Denny. I had my 20g Mandy tank. It's possible for some but not all.

It's not an easy first fish.


i dont completely agree with that, at least the tank size part anyway, a mature tank goes alot farther then a tank of a large size , according to this logic the three mandarins ive had for a long time should have cleared out my tank (25g)and be skinny and starving

i dose several types of copepods, live phytoplankton twice a day to feed the pods and all three of my mandarins are fat as any ive seen.

not so much the size of the tank but making sure you can supply the food is the key, mandarins/dragonettes arnt as hard as they were to keep years ago....same with alot of difficult fish as rearing their food is getting easier too.

having a large live food population is one of the most important things , lots of food means less stress, better health,and territory aggression is very little compared to fish who have to fight and hunt heavy for food.


besides feeding the mandarins you need to feed their food too;)


hth

cheers

denny

[mandyplo]

You are preaching to the choir Denny. I had my 20g Mandy tank. It's possible for some but not all.

It's not an easy first fish.


This seems to always happen but no matter how much info you put in the original post, no one seems to read it and I always find myself repeating... Anyways, My 65 gallon is over a year old now and I have done endless reading on these fish since I started my tank because I've always wanted one. I have also purchased from reef nutrition the live tigger pods and the phytoplankton to feed the tiggers. I'm fully prepared to continue to stock my tank with pods for the mandarins if they refuse to eat prepared foods.

And I don't know where you got the idea that this would be my first fish... I have many fish they are just in quarantine right now, I have been a fish hobbyist for years and I have successfully kept other hard to keep fish such as certain anthias and butterfly fish. Sorry if I'm sounding rude I just feel that a lot of people jump to conclusions/makes assumptions when I have already stated the facts.

[naesco]

This seems to always happen but no matter how much info you put in the original post, no one seems to read it and I always find myself repeating... Anyways, My 65 gallon is over a year old now and I have done endless reading on these fish since I started my tank because I've always wanted one. I have also purchased from reef nutrition the live tigger pods and the phytoplankton to feed the tiggers. I'm fully prepared to continue to stock my tank with pods for the mandarins if they refuse to eat prepared foods.

And I don't know where you got the idea that this would be my first fish... I have many fish they are just in quarantine right now, I have been a fish hobbyist for years and I have successfully kept other hard to keep fish such as certain anthias and butterfly fish. Sorry if I'm sounding rude I just feel that a lot of people jump to conclusions/makes assumptions when I have already stated the facts.

In fairness to all who posted your OP:

1. that you tank is a 65 gallon
2. stats this is a start up tank but later says it is 1 year old.
3. fallow but pods are growing.??

Kudos to you for seeking out aquacultured.

Contrary to the other poster in the case of mandarins it does make a difference.
Mandarins feed on the reef and when someone approaches dive for the nearest hole. Fishers squirt cyanide in and they come out but half are dead and another half die by the time they reach the beach.
MAC taught the fishers to hook them but with MAC gone I do not know whether this continues.

Mandarins! Always buy aquacultured. Never buy a mandarin that you do not see actively eating in the LFS.

[paddyob]

Actually you are coming across very rude.

I won't offer any further advice.



This seems to always happen but no matter how much info you put in the original post, no one seems to read it and I always find myself repeating... Anyways, My 65 gallon is over a year old now and I have done endless reading on these fish since I started my tank because I've always wanted one. I have also purchased from reef nutrition the live tigger pods and the phytoplankton to feed the tiggers. I'm fully prepared to continue to stock my tank with pods for the mandarins if they refuse to eat prepared foods.

And I don't know where you got the idea that this would be my first fish... I have many fish they are just in quarantine right now, I have been a fish hobbyist for years and I have successfully kept other hard to keep fish such as certain anthias and butterfly fish. Sorry if I'm sounding rude I just feel that a lot of people jump to conclusions/makes assumptions when I have already stated the facts.

[mandyplo]

In fairness to all who posted your OP:

1. that you tank is a 65 gallon
2. stats this is a start up tank but later says it is 1 year old.
3. fallow but pods are growing.??

Kudos to you for seeking out aquacultured.

Contrary to the other poster in the case of mandarins it does make a difference.
Mandarins feed on the reef and when someone approaches dive for the nearest hole. Fishers squirt cyanide in and they come out but half are dead and another half die by the time they reach the beach.
MAC taught the fishers to hook them but with MAC gone I do not know whether this continues.

Mandarins! Always buy aquacultured. Never buy a mandarin that you do not see actively eating in the LFS.

Never once did I state this was a startup tank, I stated my tank is currently fallow and I'm soon to be reaching the 7 week date. All of my fish that WERE in the tank are in quarantine and I want to add a mandarin to my display first and let him settle in, before I re-introduce my old fish. I said BEFORE when my tank was immature I had dreamed of trying a mandarin fish but decided to wait until the time was right and my tank was more mature (which is now, as my tank is currently 1 year and 1 month old). Sorry if that was not clear.

And maybe I am confused on what the term fallow means, I suppose I don't know the exact meaning but I was under the impression it was regarding your tank having all fish removed from it. I wasn't aware it also meant inverts/corals were not allowed to remain in the tank.... And if my tank has all fish removed from it currently (which it does) and only my corals remain, why would pods not culture and grow (which is what you are suggesting)??? Without fish to prey on them they have all the more advantage to grow and populate do they not?

[naesco]

Never once did I state this was a startup tank, I stated my tank is currently fallow and I'm soon to be reaching the 7 week date. All of my fish that WERE in the tank are in quarantine and I want to add a mandarin to my display first and let him settle in, before I re-introduce my old fish. I said BEFORE when my tank was immature I had dreamed of trying a mandarin fish but decided to wait until the time was right and my tank was more mature (which is now, as my tank is currently 1 year and 1 month old). Sorry if that was not clear.

And maybe I am confused on what the term fallow means, I suppose I don't know the exact meaning but I was under the impression it was regarding your tank having all fish removed from it. I wasn't aware it also meant inverts/corals were not allowed to remain in the tank.... And if my tank has all fish removed from it currently (which it does) and only my corals remain, why would pods not culture and grow (which is what you are suggesting)??? Without fish to prey on them they have all the more advantage to grow and populate do they not?

Apologies accepted. Turbo charge your tank by over feeding live phytoplankton daily with the pumps off for an hour or so.
Get a lfs to order an aquacultured mandarin and when it arrives and you see it eating other foods buy it. Avoid other fish that also prey on pods. Your mandarin will soon devour all the pods in your tank.

[Pan]

Apologies accepted. Turbo charge your tank by over feeding live phytoplankton daily with the pumps off for an hour or so.
Get a lfs to order an aquacultured mandarin and when it arrives and you see it eating other foods buy it. Avoid other fish that also prey on pods. Your mandarin will soon devour all the pods in your tank.

I had luck feeding my Mandarins Lobster eggs...from ocean nutrition...hard to get though...at least it was when i had my tank. Of course thats not all that was fed but they like it.

Also, try not to get one unless you can see it eat..and i mean more than one type of food. I bought mine after I saw them eat three or four kinds of food...including pellets. Again though, this was really before captive bred mandarins were available.

But I kept them alive for 4 years, I also used lobster eggs to get my Moorish idol eating other food...though he was in the qt tank for almost 4 months.

If you are relying on "buying" pods the tigger pods are not always the best...and it gets mighty expensive if you cannot get them onto something else.

Good Luck though, everyone always love looking at my mandarins... curiously they liked asterina starfish as well...the green spotted anyways...so that might be something to introduce in a QT tank and see if they take to them.


http://www.oceannutrition.eu/products.aspx?Product=lobstereggs

those. well worth the hassle to get them. Actually good to get any finicky eater....well eating..

[halwake]

Hey, we just went through this with a mandarin about 4 months ago. I had all intentions to (farm) pods and so on but I was able to get my male green mandarin eating frozen food quite quickly. He is not a ORA Mandarin, got him from Big Als. I put him in a breeder net floating in the main tank for about a week. Here I introduced frozen brine shrimp. To my surprise after a day or two he started sampling it. Then I started to add a bit of frozen Mysis. He was not overly interested but picked at it. About a week in he escaped into the main tank. I was hoping he would keep eating frozen but only went after pods. He showed very little interest in frozen food. After a week and him getting skinnier I decided to re-capture him. Once I got him back into the net we started over again. To my delight he started to accept very small Mysis, (Hikari brand). We tried blood worms now, mysis, brine shrimp, and he even tried some flake. After I was sure he was eating good, I released him back into the tank. Here we spot fed him with the pumps off using a feeding tube or turkey baster. He came to associate the tube with food and came to it as soon as it was in the water. Unfortunatly so did the other faster fish, so we started using the mandarin diner approach. Small glass jar in the corner that just the mandarin can go in and take his time to eat. Works great, he is always going in there looking for food. He won't touch pellets or flake really but will gobble up and frozen preparations. I think the key is to get a plump healthy one to begin with that will last the initial training phase and do not release them until they are taking frozen very well. Wish I could take credit for these ideas but the articles and links were posted by members on the site. Search Mandarin diners and training mandarin to eat frozen food. My guy is healty, happy, active, and in a 36 gallon tank. I gave up on pod farming, much easier just to train him to begin with. All together took approx. 4 weeks but remember after the 1st week he escaped and we had to start over again. I would guess 2-3 weeks total in the breeder net you would be fine.

[Pan]

Hey, we just went through this with a mandarin about 4 months ago. I had all intentions to (farm) pods and so on but I was able to get my male green mandarin eating frozen food quite quickly. He is not a ORA Mandarin, got him from Big Als. I put him in a breeder net floating in the main tank for about a week. Here I introduced frozen brine shrimp. To my surprise after a day or two he started sampling it. Then I started to add a bit of frozen Mysis. He was not overly interested but picked at it. About a week in he escaped into the main tank. I was hoping he would keep eating frozen but only went after pods. He showed very little interest in frozen food. After a week and him getting skinnier I decided to re-capture him. Once I got him back into the net we started over again. To my delight he started to accept very small Mysis, (Hikari brand). We tried blood worms now, mysis, brine shrimp, and he even tried some flake. After I was sure he was eating good, I released him back into the tank. Here we spot fed him with the pumps off using a feeding tube or turkey baster. He came to associate the tube with food and came to it as soon as it was in the water. Unfortunatly so did the other faster fish, so we started using the mandarin diner approach. Small glass jar in the corner that just the mandarin can go in and take his time to eat. Works great, he is always going in there looking for food. He won't touch pellets or flake really but will gobble up and frozen preparations. I think the key is to get a plump healthy one to begin with that will last the initial training phase and do not release them until they are taking frozen very well. Wish I could take credit for these ideas but the articles and links were posted by members on the site. Search Mandarin diners and training mandarin to eat frozen food. My guy is healty, happy, active, and in a 36 gallon tank. I gave up on pod farming, much easier just to train him to begin with. All together took approx. 4 weeks but remember after the 1st week he escaped and we had to start over again. I would guess 2-3 weeks total in the breeder net you would be fine.

Mandarin Diner...Good old Melev. :)

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

[mandyplo]

Hey, we just went through this with a mandarin about 4 months ago. I had all intentions to (farm) pods and so on but I was able to get my male green mandarin eating frozen food quite quickly. He is not a ORA Mandarin, got him from Big Als. I put him in a breeder net floating in the main tank for about a week. Here I introduced frozen brine shrimp. To my surprise after a day or two he started sampling it. Then I started to add a bit of frozen Mysis. He was not overly interested but picked at it. About a week in he escaped into the main tank. I was hoping he would keep eating frozen but only went after pods. He showed very little interest in frozen food. After a week and him getting skinnier I decided to re-capture him. Once I got him back into the net we started over again. To my delight he started to accept very small Mysis, (Hikari brand). We tried blood worms now, mysis, brine shrimp, and he even tried some flake. After I was sure he was eating good, I released him back into the tank. Here we spot fed him with the pumps off using a feeding tube or turkey baster. He came to associate the tube with food and came to it as soon as it was in the water. Unfortunatly so did the other faster fish, so we started using the mandarin diner approach. Small glass jar in the corner that just the mandarin can go in and take his time to eat. Works great, he is always going in there looking for food. He won't touch pellets or flake really but will gobble up and frozen preparations. I think the key is to get a plump healthy one to begin with that will last the initial training phase and do not release them until they are taking frozen very well. Wish I could take credit for these ideas but the articles and links were posted by members on the site. Search Mandarin diners and training mandarin to eat frozen food. My guy is healty, happy, active, and in a 36 gallon tank. I gave up on pod farming, much easier just to train him to begin with. All together took approx. 4 weeks but remember after the 1st week he escaped and we had to start over again. I would guess 2-3 weeks total in the breeder net you would be fine.

Thank you Naesco, Pan, and Halwake!
You have provided me with a lot of insight. We have only 2 stores in town that can order the mandarinfish. I am going to try my best to order one in, and whether I receive captive bred or not, I am still going to go through all the procedures to be sure they are eating prepared foods :) I'd just feel better if I had a plan B (pod population in my tank, buying lobster eggs, etc) just in case I have troubles getting him to eat prepared foods at first... this is usually how my luck works out.

My only worry is that I've had such a hard time with this ICH problem, and I've finally eradicated it... Only a few more days and my tank will be done its 8 week fallow, and I can be (hopefully) assured that its ICH free. My fish have completed their 4 week treatment in quarantine, so once my display is ready I will finally have fish to admire again.
But anyways my worry is that I know both of the local stores in town have been having ICH problems aswell... So part of me is saying "make sure you quarantine your new mandarin" and the other part is saying "don't quarantine theres no pods in that tank, he will starve, he will be too stressed to eat in there, he will die if you try to quarantine..."

Do you think if I use the breeding trap method in quarantine, he should be okay? I'm really worried about re introducing ICH to my display :( If it were any other easier to keep fish I would BE SURE to QT and treat it! But I'm starting to think he should be alright in QT if I have tigger pods, lobster eggs, and frozen/prepared foods ready for him right?

[SoloSK71]

I am thinking this might be the next step for me as well, SPS looks to be a lot moredemanding in terms of water quality and more costly as well. Sadly the ORA mandarins are all sold and no more are expected for a year or so.

Charles

[mandyplo]

Hey, we just went through this with a mandarin about 4 months ago. I had all intentions to (farm) pods and so on but I was able to get my male green mandarin eating frozen food quite quickly. He is not a ORA Mandarin, got him from Big Als. I put him in a breeder net floating in the main tank for about a week. Here I introduced frozen brine shrimp. To my surprise after a day or two he started sampling it. Then I started to add a bit of frozen Mysis. He was not overly interested but picked at it. About a week in he escaped into the main tank. I was hoping he would keep eating frozen but only went after pods. He showed very little interest in frozen food. After a week and him getting skinnier I decided to re-capture him. Once I got him back into the net we started over again. To my delight he started to accept very small Mysis, (Hikari brand). We tried blood worms now, mysis, brine shrimp, and he even tried some flake. After I was sure he was eating good, I released him back into the tank. Here we spot fed him with the pumps off using a feeding tube or turkey baster. He came to associate the tube with food and came to it as soon as it was in the water. Unfortunatly so did the other faster fish, so we started using the mandarin diner approach. Small glass jar in the corner that just the mandarin can go in and take his time to eat. Works great, he is always going in there looking for food. He won't touch pellets or flake really but will gobble up and frozen preparations. I think the key is to get a plump healthy one to begin with that will last the initial training phase and do not release them until they are taking frozen very well. Wish I could take credit for these ideas but the articles and links were posted by members on the site. Search Mandarin diners and training mandarin to eat frozen food. My guy is healty, happy, active, and in a 36 gallon tank. I gave up on pod farming, much easier just to train him to begin with. All together took approx. 4 weeks but remember after the 1st week he escaped and we had to start over again. I would guess 2-3 weeks total in the breeder net you would be fine.

Update!!! I have purchased a mandarin :) he is in qt and I used the breeding trap method right away. First I was feeding live tigger pods because he wouldn't accept anything else. On day three he started taste testing brine shrimp, and cyclops. He is fully accepting frozen food now and he is nice and plump!!! I bought a Bangaii cardinal at the same time however and he is in the same QT tank (not in the breeding trap obv). But I have yet to see him eat and it's been a few days :( I would never have guessed I'd have trouble with a cardinal! Any suggestions?

[Skimmerking]

Mandy bangi cards are. A tricky one too they love blood worms they are a finicky eater so just give it time.

[zum14]

I got my Bengaii to start eating with baby brine shrimp I hatched. He wouldn't touch anything else. He eventually started sampling frozen. Try night time feeding. Mine would cruise when the lights went out.