Power saving tips and ways to save money!?

[ashr]

Hey all

We all know how much power our tanks can run and the ugly power bill that fallows. I wanted to know if anyone has any tips to help save power and keep our power bills down.

Has anyone noticed since the switch to smart meter (if you have switched) Has your bill gone up? Gone down? Share some of your tips and help us all save a little money!:mrgreen:

[reefwars]

dc pumps!!!! love em!!!!~~~

[jagermaier]

Use LED lights...that will save on your power bill!

[Baldy]

Use LED lights...that will save on your power bill!

+1. i have 160w worth of LEDs that would easily rival 500W of MH plus T5.

[reefwars]

+1. i have 160w worth of LEDs that would easily rival 500W of MH plus T5.

im not sure that the savings is all that much , realistically your heaters are going to run alot more now that you have leds,if you run 2 or 3 200w heaters does it save anything?? some savings yes but def not as much as what is led to believe.

[Baldy]

I would be curious to know the difference in heating. It would be very hard to prove, but i would argue that a small % of the total heat given off is actually absorbed by the water compared to dissipated in the air in the room. this is simply a guess, and like i said, would be difficult to test. the difference between the two without the heat changes is 4.08kwh per day @ $0.085 per kwh (as per my last power bill), is only 10$ a month.

[Baldy]

I should add that 2 out of the 4 40w drivers i have dont have enough LEDs to run at 100%, and the other 2 are dimmed to 80%. I dont have a par meter yet so i cant say definitively ywhether or not its equivalent to 2x250W MH. the par meter is on its way though :biggrin:

[jagermaier]

im not sure that the savings is all that much , realistically your heaters are going to run alot more now that you have leds,if you run 2 or 3 200w heaters does it save anything?? some savings yes but def not as much as what is led to believe.

Good point Denny, but how many people are running chillers as well with their Metal Halides so that kind of counters the whole heater savings aspect :razz: I would still say that led lighting is the biggest power savings for your tank...

[ashr]

dc pumps!!!! love em!!!!~~~

Can you give me some more info on this?

[reefgirl189]

We have a wood burning fireplace. It saves us on heating costs during the winter.

Whatever you do, don't put your sump in the basement and the DT on the main floor. The beefy return pump you'll need is heavy on power consumption, so I've learned.

[Baldy]

Just a quick look at the specs,
http://www.rlss.ca/#!dc-pump/vstc3=dc10000
they show 2650 gph using 85w
mag drive 24, 2400 gph uses 265w
sedra 20000 pumps 2000 gph using 220w

looks like i might be upgrading soon =)

[reefwars]

Can you give me some more info on this?

dc pumps run cooler and have lower power consumption, they produce lots of flow and have a soft start in theory making the pump life longer.....time will tell of course as they are still a very new product.


heres a great read:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/waveline-dc-5000-pump-unboxed-and-reviewed




We have a wood burning fireplace. It saves us on heating costs during the winter.

Whatever you do, don't put your sump in the basement and the DT on the main floor. The beefy return pump you'll need is heavy on power consumption, so I've learned.


hopefully they will make a stronger dc pump soon but either way the largest one might do for you , depending on how high it has to travel......80watts!! giggaddy!!

[Baldy]

geez, the Iwaki MD100RLT shows 2000gph on marinedepot using a whopping 391w. 85w to 250w difference is another $10 per month savings. $10.44 @ 8.5c per kwh

[reefgirl189]

dc pumps run cooler and have lower power consumption, they produce lots of flow and have a soft start in theory making the pump life longer.....time will tell of course as they are still a very new product.


heres a great read:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/waveline-dc-5000-pump-unboxed-and-reviewed


hopefully they will make a stronger dc pump soon but either way the largest one might do for you , depending on how high it has to travel......80watts!! giggaddy!!



It needs to clear 12' of head pressure. I like to oversize the return as it helps with overall flow to the tank. Currently using the largest Sedra pump and it works great, just needs a lot of juice.

[cwatkins]

So the question is, is it better to replace my main pump (that runs 24 hrs/day) with a DC pump. Or replace 500w of MH lighting with LED (that runs 8.5 hrs/day).

What are peoples thoughts?

My Sedra KSP-7000 claims to use 70watts (versus 25watts for the DC pump), but my AquaController says that it lies! It uses at least 100watts probably due to the head pressure (and maybe more. I think it commonly uses 1 amp or more)

[ashr]

I think the best thing is to go through everything in your tank and find out what the whole system wattage would be. Does anyone recommend a special type of power bar over others?

[reefwars]

It needs to clear 12' of head pressure. I like to oversize the return as it helps with overall flow to the tank. Currently using the largest Sedra pump and it works great, just needs a lot of juice.

at 12 ft what are you getting out of the 20000?

from the chart on the speedwave box the dc2640 at 12ft is about 900gph at 85w

from the chart in the box for the sedra it says at 12ft its also 900gph but uses 200w:(

[reefgirl189]

at 12 ft what are you getting out of the 20000?

from the chart on the speedwave box the dc2640 at 12ft is about 900gph at 85w

from the chart in the box for the sedra it says at 12ft its also 900gph but uses 200w:(

I calculated roughly 750 gph (We have a couple 90 elbows the clear on the way up). I'm going to show this to the SO and see if he might let me upgrade. We've had some heafty bills lately and it's getting annoying. Now if only there was a cheaper upgrade for the iphones...

[intarsiabox]

at 12 ft what are you getting out of the 20000?

from the chart on the speedwave box the dc2640 at 12ft is about 900gph at 85w

from the chart in the box for the sedra it says at 12ft its also 900gph but uses 200w:(

I guess it would depend on whether a new pump is required and how long a person plans to use the pump to see if there is any actual savings. 115w at 0.089 cents works out to $7.36/month. The price I found online for the DC2640 pump was $299 (not sure what you are selling them for) so 3.5 years to break even. Maybe pumps will be more efficient in 3-4 years time as well. If a new pump is required then DC is the way to go for sure, just to replace an existing pump to save money a buyer should do the math first to see if they are satisfied with the possible results. How the pump is being used will also effect the outcome, I'm calculating at 100% 24hrs a day but if a person doesn't require 100% the speed control on the DC unit can be dialed down to adjust flow as compared to an AC pump that runs at 100% all the time and uses a valve to control flow. This would further increase the power savings with a DC pump.

[phi delt reefer]

run your lights when power is cheaper. here in ontario, 7pm is when electricity is its cheapest. thats when my lights come on. this also has two additional benefits. In winter i keep the house cooler when we are all sleeping so having the lights on at night keeps the tank warm. In the summer, its cooler in the evening so having the lights on then keeps over heating to a minimum. I am home at 6PM so i get to enjoy my tank right up until i go to sleep.

use your return pump to drive your reactors - you can usually upsize your pump one model and use less electricity than running 3-4 smaller dedicated reactor pumps. This is very dependent on your pump selection so take the time to do the math.

you can use your ro waste water to fill your washer but be-careful, leaving it unattended will ensure a flooded laundry room.

skimmers and return pumps run 24/7. spend some good money on quiet and efficient models. the more expensive stuff has a better resale value as well.

[reefwars]

I guess it would depend on whether a new pump is required and how long a person plans to use the pump to see if there is any actual savings. 115w at 0.089 cents works out to $7.36/month. The price I found online for the DC2640 pump was $299 (not sure what you are selling them for) so 3.5 years to break even. Maybe pumps will be more efficient in 3-4 years time as well. If a new pump is required then DC is the way to go for sure, just to replace an existing pump to save money a buyer should do the math first to see if they are satisfied with the possible results. How the pump is being used will also effect the outcome, I'm calculating at 100% 24hrs a day but if a person doesn't require 100% the speed control on the DC unit can be dialed down to adjust flow as compared to an AC pump that runs at 100% all the time and uses a valve to control flow. This would further increase the power savings with a DC pump.


we sell them for 279.00(i believe anyways, im not at work right now ) i agree switching for the upgrade just to save quick money isnt a good financial purchase but there are other benefits as well though when comparing to some larger ac pumps that make these good even if its for uprading.

[sphelps]

I run dc pumps and LEDs, my power bill is higher than ever :lol: We need better ideas.

[sphelps]

Just checking some readings the Waveline DC10000 draws 0.75A so around 85W or so at full speed. So as advertised, fairly efficient. One of my 300W heaters however draws 2.95A so closer to 325W, I have two of these and they are on a lot so makes you wonder how much I'm saving with LEDs in terms of power.

[e46er]

Hydro bypass - only solution

[mrhasan]

Let me get something out of my mind about "power savings" by switching to:

LEDs: Alright, so typically, someone replaces one MH fixture (250W) to get a Radio G1. Some calculations:

Cost of MH fixture: $150-$200
Wattage: 250W
Monthly cost of electricity @ 8hrs lighting cycle and @ 8c/kWh: 0.250W * 8hrs * 30 days * 0.08 = $4.8 (+- 10% give or take) = $5.28 max
Yearly cost of maintaining (1 bulb change + electricity) = $70 + 5.28 * 12 = $133
Yearly cost of JUST electricity = $63.36

Cost of a PROPER LED fixture (I am not any generic fixture):
Two proven LEDs that I consider worthy are Radios and Mitras (flame me all you want but those LEDs actually have future; not vertex or razor!)

Radion (G2) costs: $660
Wattage: 140W
Monthly cost of electricity @ 8hrs lighting cycle and @ 8c/kWh: $2.69 (+- 10% give or take) = $2.96
No yearly maintenance other than electricity bill = 2.96 * 12 = $35.52

Savings with Radion (G2) = $97.48/year (including bulb change once a year)
Price difference between Radion (G2) and MH = $460

So to have a "gain with LED", you will have to use it for atleast, 460/97.48 = 4.7 years before you start profiting with Radion (G2).

I am not going to do the calculations for the Mitras (possibly costs around $1200 and with most output so possibly the years will almost be DOUBLE!).

So, instead of putting my conclusion, I would like to ask, suppose you buy a LED fixture today, would you be using it for, say, 5 years?

2. DC pumps: These are clearly very efficient stuffs since only DC can offer variable speed motors with low power consumption (war of current is coming back I tell ya! :mrgreen:). But once again, the cost-saving benefit should be done. I am not very familiar with pumps and so I am leaving it over here (I don't have the data on prices and how long they are in running mode, etc).

If you ask me why would I get LEDs and DC pumps (when financially permitted), I would say its because of:
1. Technology
2. Versatility
3. Trend (:razz:)

Last but not the least; I used to get flamed by lines like "don't cheap out in this hobby" and "leave this hobby if you can't afford a $50 refractometer" but now-a-days, I see people buying $700 LEDs to save like $100 a year! And I used to get flamed; cruel world :lol:

[naesco]

[QUOTE=mrhasan;793618]

(Quote)




If you ask me why would I get LEDs and DC pumps (when financially permitted), I would say its because of:
1. Technology
2. Versatility
3. Trend (:razz:

(End of quote)



But most importantly, the environment.

[Baldy]

Comparing average mh to a radion isn't exactly a fair comparison. My DIY fixture cost 750 for my 75g. I would need at least 2 radions to equal it in output. 750 vs 1360 makes the time to recover the investment less. Radions, sols, mitras, they're all overpriced compared to what you can do yourself.

[intarsiabox]

+1, if you love the environment own a reef tank!

[reefwars]

Comparing average mh to a radion isn't exactly a fair comparison. My DIY fixture cost 750 for my 75g. I would need at least 2 radions to equal it in output. 750 vs 1360 makes the time to recover the investment less. Radions, sols, mitras, they're all overpriced compared to what you can do yourself.

not really , if you were to add half the things the radions or ghl's can do your diy fixture would cost some more im sure.

maybe its me but i find the bluetooth and wireless for my radion to vortech quite nice and handy;)


out of curiosity how do you control your leds?

light times, spectrum changes, color blending,power off etc.

[Baldy]

I could see the vortech to radion for current control, but I've got a sunrise sunset controller on mine, and things like.storm mode and such, is it really worth it? You can use lighting controllers on units like apex and program powerheads to do similar. Mind you, I haven't played with a vortech yet so I might not know what I'm missing yet :)

[blacknife]

you guys need to double your electricity costs.. i see around 8 cents/kwh used lots but remember under most billers all your other fees <transmission distribution, etc> are bassed on usage and cost at least as much as your actual electricity. Your 5 dollar a month savings quickly turns into 10

[mrhasan]

[QUOTE=mrhasan;793618]
But most importantly, the environment.

Completely agree to that.

[kien]

I would like to ask, suppose you buy a LED fixture today, would you be using it for, say, 5 years?

It is possible that some people have already bought and ditched several LED fixtures ranging from DIY, Vertex, AI, Radion, etc, to move up to the next best LED fixture :-)

[mrhasan]

Comparing average mh to a radion isn't exactly a fair comparison. My DIY fixture cost 750 for my 75g. I would need at least 2 radions to equal it in output. 750 vs 1360 makes the time to recover the investment less. Radions, sols, mitras, they're all overpriced compared to what you can do yourself.

DIYs are always on a very different league. Like Denny said, DIYs always welcome unexpected costs. But once done properly will have the possibility of major savings. On the other hand, you won't be getting any sort of "warranty" with the DIYs. Is the heatsink enough? Is the wiring properly done with the codes for safety? Is the fixture totally safe? Semiconductor devices can easily go wrong no matter what in DIYs. Surely you will be getting warranty from driver manufacturers like invertronics or meanwell but they can easily go wrong and the warranty over here shouldn't come over reliability.

One thing's for sure....all brand LEDs are overpriced to some extend. And that's because they are controlling the market and players will always take this advantage. One thing that we don't see is the R&D costs that incorporates within these LEDs. Radion, mitras...these come from big companies and they will surely make 20-40% since those will eventually be distributed among various sources (starting from dealers to those back door engineers who spent hours perfecting these fixtures).

[mrhasan]

It is possible that some people have already bought and ditched several LED fixtures ranging from DIY, Vertex, AI, Radion, etc, to move up to the next best LED fixture :-)

And within a span of...I guess....2 years? Maybe 3 years? They have hardly recovered the main objective (placed by many) of profiting by reducing electricity bill......

Kien where's you mitras? Didn't see them on your tank in the recent pics :razz:

[kien]

And within a span of...I guess....2 years? Maybe 3 years? They have hardly recovered the main objective (placed by many) of profiting by reducing electricity bill......

Kien where's you mitras? Didn't see them on your tank in the recent pics :razz:

In the span of 1 year for some, maybe :-)

My Mitras? I have never owned Mitras. :-) I'm just not cool enough.. :cry:

[mrhasan]

In the span of 1 year for some, maybe :-)

My Mitras? I have never owned Mitras. :-) I'm just not cool enough.. :cry:

LOL. Ah my bad :lol:

[mrhasan]

you guys need to double your electricity costs.. i see around 8 cents/kwh used lots but remember under most billers all your other fees <transmission distribution, etc> are bassed on usage and cost at least as much as your actual electricity. Your 5 dollar a month savings quickly turns into 10

I haven't dealt with proper bills yet (included within rent) but as far as I know, in Calgary, it comes to something like 12c/kWh including those.

Anyhow, since its a product factor, its the same in both LED and MH and gets canceled in the calculation anyway. A slight difference will occur only due to the addiction factor of the bulb. Maybe instead of 4.7 years, it will be like 4.5 years (I am bad without calculation).

[reefwars]

i just had my radion die , it was covered by warrenty and replaced, i dont think a diy fixture has that option and all maintanance is covered by yourself.

how about the finish , i havent seen one diy fixture yet that resembled anything close to a radion or ghl's or most brand name fixtures finish. to me having a light that looks nice is almost as important as having a light that does what i want it to.

while people are comparing led to mh savings , remember to include supplemental lighting, not may users using just mh bulbs might as well throw some fans in there too.

[Baldy]

I was using 8.5c per kwh because thats what it was showing for power costs on my last bill. I was under the impression that transmission and other charges were fixed

I definately agree with the warranty argument. If mine goes out i cant just send it back, but honestly thats one thing i enjoy about this hobby, Im kind of a tinkerer. The R&D argument is valid as well, but i hate how all the manufactured units are behind the DIY guys when it comes to the full spectrum setups, but the mitra looks like its a big step in the right direction. as far as finish, depends on the builder. I think mine looks not too shabby, but i digress.

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90/Forced__Induction/CIMG1636.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90/Forced__Induction/CIMG1641.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90/Forced__Induction/CIMG1638.jpg

[mrhasan]

while people are comparing led to mh savings , remember to include supplemental lighting, not may users using just mh bulbs might as well throw some fans in there too.

There are lots of variables in the whole scenario. Supplemental lights, chillers, heaters, fan, ect. Well even LEDs have something called phantom power and that can be quite significant too. But those costs wont bridge the 4+ years difference. All I did was to show a very basic cost benefit of the claim 'LED saves money' and not saying LED is no good. For example, if money permits, I would love to get mitras but not for saving s through cutting down on electricity bill but rather because the advantages that LED provides and the technologies itself. :mrgreen:

[reefwars]

But those costs wont bridge the 4+ years difference.

the saying is leds cost less per month then mh do, not that youll recover the cost of a fixture in a year or less.......we know you wont save that much or there wouldnt be mh's still around.
you proved it yourself , leds do save money....how much money they save probably doesnt add up to a light fixtures cost when upgrading but the claims are true , they cost less to run then mh.

now the next argument is do leds do what mh's do lol?

[Reef Pilot]

You can certainly save money with DIY, but for some things it is just not worth it to me. That's why I have Radions and an Apex. Maybe not the very best in class, but sure beats anything I could build myself. I also wouldn't build my own skimmer.

But when it comes to tanks, sumps, overflows, cabinets, plumbing, electrics, ATO's, reactors, filters, etc, there are lots of opportunity to save money as well as optimize performance and tailor to your preferences.

I use the same philosophy with my airplanes. I build them for performance and personal preference, and save a lot of money. However, I still buy the best engine and propeller for it. I won't build those components.

[Reefer Rob]

At $200 a year in bulb replacement costs, my DIY LED will pay for itself in 4 (2 1/2 more) years. Thats with the full spectrum upgrade.

Reduce your electrical consumption to decrease your tanks carbon footprint and it's effect on the wild reefs. Saving money is nice too, but this hobby is definitely not for the financially challenged... it requires a very understanding spouse.

[mrhasan]

the claims are true , they cost less to run then mh.

now the next argument is do leds do what mh's do lol?

Absolutely. They do save money and if everyone moves to LED to light everything, a huge difference can be made in terms of consumption. A 50w savings might not be much on the bill but on a larger scale, its huge. But the self benefit wont be coming quick :p

About which one is better, you are in a better stance to draw the conclusion. :)

[Aquattro]

If somebody comes up with an awesome power savings plan, I may send cash :) My bill for the last 2 months was $850

[mrhasan]

Oh sweet humanity...once human lived without electricity...and now even fishes and corals cant!

[mrhasan]

If somebody comes up with an awesome power savings plan, I may send cash :) My bill for the last 2 months was $850

Sell the tank...invest some money on big piles of napkins to whip the tears of sadness and get a beta tank! I promise...it would be the best investment EVER! Even better than LEDs :lol:

[Aquattro]

Sell the tank...

That's a less than stellar plan :)

[mrhasan]

That's a less than stellar plan :)

That's why the 2nd step:

"invest some money on big piles of napkins to whip the tears of sadness" ;)

[Reef Pilot]

Oh sweet humanity...once human lived without electricity...and now even fishes and corals cant!
Well, we can preach about it, but we're still all hypocrites, if we keep fish/corals, drive cars, ride a bus, live in houses, and surf the internet. If we're really serious, we should go look for a cave to live in.

I think the only way to save humanity for the long term is have less of it. And it will happen one way or the other.... Maybe an asteroid....

Meanwhile, I will keep enjoying my fish/corals, and all the other good things in life for myself and my family. I didn't get to choose my life and time, but will make the most of what I have.

[Aquattro]

I think the only way to save humanity for the long term is have less of it. And it will happen one way or the other.... Maybe an asteroid....



Seriously, what are the chances that ....oh, wait...:)

[ashr]

Love the discussion all. Great info.

Not sure if I wish to change to LED just yet..

[Madmak]

May as well make the switch before the world ends...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[mrhasan]

Love the discussion all. Great info.

Not sure if I wish to change to LED just yet..

If you want LED to save money, then its not a good choice.

If you want LED for its versatility, less heat issue and coolness, then LED is awesome!

Remember, LED is like iphone; new stuffs are bound to come out every 6 or 7 months. ;)

[subman]

....

Remember, LED is like iphone; new stuffs are bound to come out every 6 or 7 months. ;)

Right about the same time you'll be shelling out $$$ to buy new T5 bulbs.
Just saying.

[mrhasan]

Right about the same time you'll be shelling out $$$ to buy new T5 bulbs.
Just saying.

True that. But the quality will be consistent. LEDs will get better over time; T5 and MH are perfectly developed.

How many have changed their T5 fixture to get a "better" fixture and how many have changed their LED fixture to get a better one? ;)

[ckmullin]

I've always found this sort of product provides interesting info. It'll tell ya exactly what is used and not used!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ODP-eQRlL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[mohammadali]

how much would be the bill for 300w high power LEDs in 2 months ?

[Baldy]

300w x number of hours = kwh
kwh x price of electricity = cost.

it depends on how long theyre run for and how much power costs. if you ran them for 12h and electricity is 8.5c per kwh like it is here then:
300 x 12 = 3600wh or 3.6kwh. 3.6kwh x 60 days = 216kwh
216kwh x 0.085$ = $18.36 this doesnt include transmission charges and other fees.

[mike31154]

Put up some solar panels, get a wind generator, bank of batteries, grid tie inverter.... if you can stomach the upfront cost. If you have a creek in your back yard, get a micro hydro generator. Then, with your newly installed smart meter, you can sell the excess power back to the Hydro company. If you don't have excess with all your tank goodies, you'll at least cut down your hydro bill.

EDIT... and you'll have back up power if there's an outage with the big guys.

[sphelps]

Ok besides debating whether LEDs save money or not let's maybe focus on some real ways of cutting back that power bill. I'll suggest a few things that don't have huge upfront costs.


Reduce light schedule, simply cut back lighting duty cycle to a minimum.
Use DC controllable power-heads or alternate AC power-heads provided they can handle the cycling. Alternating pumps can essentially result in half the power compared to always on.
Reduce flow at night, common practice for many to reduce tank flow at night. Whether it's actually simulating natural effects or not it does reduce power tremendously. For example closed loop pumps or power-heads could shut it off completely at night, DC power-heads could be dialed down.
Those of us who do use a fair bit of power heating our tanks could use acrylic sumps for better insulation or work on insulating our tanks/sumps to hold heat better.

[Baldy]

The light schedule would work, but the powerhead idea would make an almost immeasurable difference. In not sure about vortechs but the koralia powerheads use somewhere around 6-10w each. The effects would be miniscule

[reefwars]

The effects would be miniscule


its the little things that count , same as saying me throwing one coffee cup out my car window isnt gonna make a difference to such a large world, i think were passed the point in this world where we assume the little things dont make a diifference. the little things arnt so little when you multiply it by the number of people who honor them;)

[sphelps]

The light schedule would work, but the powerhead idea would make an almost immeasurable difference. In not sure about vortechs but the koralia powerheads use somewhere around 6-10w each. The effects would be miniscule

Well it obviously depends what you use but for example I basically run four Tunze 6105s. If I just ran these full power all the time it would be 35W x 4 x 24 = 3.36 kWh per day. If I alternated flow it would cut it down by half and then if I also just reduced flow to 20% or so at night the savings would be even better at approximately 35W x 0.5 x 4 x 12 + 35W x 0.2 x 4 x 12 = 1.176 kWh per day. Savings of 2.184 kWh per day. This will add up to power savings and while yes not substantial if combined with a few other "miniscule" ideas it could add all add up to something substantial.

[mrhasan]

its the little things that count , same as saying me throwing one coffee cup out my car window isnt gonna make a difference to such a large world, i think were passed the point in this world where we assume the little things dont make a diifference. the little things arnt so little when you multiply it by the number of people who honor them;)

Wah ;)

[Baldy]

I understand that the little things count. But the op is asking about what changes can be made to save money on his power bill. At 10w it would take 4 days to use 1kwh. 16 days roughly to cost 1$. Heaters, return pump, and lighting are the worst aquarium related. If he wants to make an impact on his power bill, the rest of the house needs to be looked at. A 3 bulb light fixture with incandescent bulbs draws as much as a return pump. I have 4 in my 860sq foot house. How long are lights like that run in a day?changing to cfl bulbs (twistys) draw less than 1/4 the power. Electric range and oven? Probably draw 10+ amps when running. That's 1200w. Electric dryer, same story. These aren't ran continuously mind you, but these add up. Natural gas is far cheaper to run these things.

Those are the changes that are going to make an impact. If your talking about environmental impact, then again, how effective is cutting 8w out of daily power usage when there are so many things worse. I used to work on a drilling rig that used diesel generators. In the winter with the boiler running that rig would burn 2800 liters PER DAY in diesel fuel. This is a larger rig mind you, but there are over 700 running in Alberta last time I heard. These are thtw kinds of things that need to change. Alternative renewable fuel sources. I'd hate to see what kind of pollution 2800l of fuel burn would produce.

I'm not saying that its not worth looking into the little things, but my point is the big things need to be looked at first. 250w down to 100w has me now saving for a new return pump now. I've already switched to leds which for me went from 260w of power compact lighting to 160w of leds.

The next big question is heating. 400w of heaters running is worth looking into.

[Reefer Rob]

The only real effective way to reduce energy consumption is to move to a smaller tank... or goldfish :mrgreen:

[ckmullin]

The bain of keeping little critters outside their environment, the power needs. But SW is sooo interesting!

[Baldy]

The bain of keeping little critters outside their environment, the power needs. But SW is sooo interesting!

Agreed. This hobby/obsession/lifestyle is definitely worth it.

[Reef Pilot]

Agreed. This hobby/obsession/lifestyle is definitely worth it.
Like I said before, go look for a cave,... or be happy and wait for the big asteroid...

[PFoster]

When smart meters were put into effect in Ontario I just reversed my light cycle.

I ran the Leds for suppliment in the morning and evening and ran the main lights (t5's) in the evening during "off peak hours.
My power bill decreased and I didnt spend $0.01 extra.

I did also get a programable thermostat and run the furnace/ac more during off peak hours

[mrhasan]

LED heater anyone? ;)

Put waterproof leds on aluminium blocks and submerge them into the water. They are "efficient" at emitting heat too isinit? ;)

Ok I shouldn't have said that being an electrical major :mrgreen: But then again, its not a crime thinking outside the box (or inside the water over here) ;)

[mrhasan]

Like I said before, go look for a cave,... or be happy and wait for the big asteroid...

Think about it. People moving to caves but for their typical demand, they would needs:

1. Longer transmission wires (loss)
2. Lights (loss)
3. Heating (loss)
4. Hunt for food (loss)
5. Damage to caves (loss)
6. Bears would be homeless (loss); thegrizz will have answer for this I am pretty sure ;)
7. Bats would be homeless (loss)
8. Batman would be ****ed (loss)
9. More losses (loss)

:mrgreen:

[Baldy]

LED heater anyone? ;)

Put waterproof leds on aluminium blocks and submerge them into the water. They are "efficient" at emitting heat too isinit? ;)

Ok I shouldn't have said that being an electrical major :mrgreen: But then again, its not a crime thinking outside the box (or inside the water over here) ;)

Lol. Being an electrical major, you probably already know this but what makes leds so efficient is they put out more light energy vs heat energy than the other types of lighting. I never realized hoe much heat t5 can produce until I saw a buddy's 6 bulb fixture. Wow.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I switched to an LED tv which uses a quarter the electricity or less compared to my LCD tv (under 50w compared to over 200w). I've also switched out almost all my tank lights (fw & sw) to LED and my house lights are either 9w LED or 13w CFL bulbs. Went from over 2000w MH at my worst MTS to under 400w of LED over the tanks alone.

My oven/toaster oven has convection heating which cooks food faster and more evenly, so save power & works better. I also built a covered pergola over my deck so on hot summer days, instead of turning on the 12000 btu AC unit in the house as much, we now go outside and turn on a couple of fans which use a fraction of the electricity.

I only buy and use EnergyStar appliances, which will pay back the purchase price in energy savings. The Bosch dishwasher uses only $28 worth of electricity for a whole year's worth of regular use and you can really save on power with a more efficient front-loader washing machine compared to top-loader. We also hang dry clothes year round (inside in winter, outside the rest of the year) because the dryer is an energy-sucker.

Even though Burnaby doesn't have the differential time-based rates yet, we usually run the dishwasher & laundry machine overnight anyways.

[sphelps]

I understand that the little things count. But the op is asking about what changes can be made to save money on his power bill.......

Hey all

We all know how much power our tanks can run and the ugly power bill that fallows. I wanted to know if anyone has any tips to help save power and keep our power bills down.

Has anyone noticed since the switch to smart meter (if you have switched) Has your bill gone up? Gone down? Share some of your tips and help us all save a little money!:mrgreen:

Sorry I guess I read the topic of the thread differently, figured suggesting ways that could relate to all of us was appropriate.

[Reef Pilot]

The biggest (or baddest) power draw we have is our hot tub. It runs from Nov to Apr, and the power bill always goes way up for the winter. We only use it on avg about once a week. Have talked to the wife a few times, about whether it is worth it, but she wants it, so... Talked to the spa shop about a timer, but they say it is not good for the motor to shut it off and on. And we keep the heater on all the time, because we use it more as a spur of the moment decision in the evening, and wouldn't want to wait for it to heat up again.

Speaking of money sinks, though, my Shaw cable (incl internet and phone) is costing us more and more, with all the HD and specialty channels (can't give up my Oasis). We're up to 200 bucks a month on that now!! I tried pulling the "we're switching to Telus" ploy on them, but it hasn't worked so far. Seems that until you actually put in a cancellation, they won't budge.

And not to mention my iPad and Smartphone costs.....

My SW tanks don't looks so bad, when I look at the above, but it does all add up....

Hope I don't run out of money before that asteroid comes....

[Baldy]

Hope I don't run out of money before that asteroid comes....

Hey if you ask some of.the crazies in the US, it'll be a zombie apocalypse.

Sorry, the fiance and I are watching the walking dead atm and I couldn't help it :D

[asylumdown]

When people calculate out how much they're going to save on LEDs (or not, as the case may be), they always seem to use the total wattage of the fixture in their calculations.

My fixtures never hit their max output, so they're never drawing their max wattage, and even the max output that they do hit is only maintained for 4 hours a day. The rest of the time they're using significantly less than their listed power draw capacity. My radions trip my GFI circuits, so they're not plugged in to my apex unfortunately, but it would be interesting to see what that ramp up and down does to their actual power draw over the course of a day.

On another note, does anyone know whether it's better from an electricity point of view to run more watts of heater, knowing that they'll be running for a shorter period of time, or the less wattage possible, knowing that heaters will have to run longer to maintain temp? I've got 2 300 watt heaters on my system, and when the Apex turns them on, they're usually on for 20 minutes or more. I'm wondering if I should add the other 300 watt heater I've got sitting in a drawer as backup to cut down the total length of time the heaters are running.

[lastlight]

I would think the only difference with heater count is how gradual or rapid your recovery to target temp is. More heaters gives you backup in case one fails but fewer heaters would make the tep swing back up more gradual.

I'm saying this using a ranco which kicks on at 77 and off at 78. With fancier controllers this prob isn't a concern with ramp up time since the controller keepers a tighter range i think.

As for power draw... some with halides likely underestimate their draw. My 250W each ran at 330W. Ballasts and bulbs both determine what that number will be.

Another way to save money (unrelated to power though) is to take good care of your ro membrane. flush it before and after use and then bypass the di resin for a minute or so until membrane output is as low as it's reasonably going to get. mine has been outputting 1 TDS after less than a minute of bypass since I got it and after running a while it drops to zero. This practice saves you a ton of DI resin.

[asylumdown]

yah the Apex kicks the heaters on at 26.1 and turns them off at 26.6 or 26.7 I think, which I think is the difference between 78.9 and 80.06, so it's a pretty tight range. I just takes a good long while to swing the temp even that small amount with 600 watts of heater, but on the plus side, it takes hours for the temp to fall enough to trigger the heaters. I thought that maybe added heaters would be more efficient, but I guess it probably all comes out in the wash, your'e still heating X volume X degrees.

[kien]

my suggestion would be to ditch filter socks. Or at a minimum reduce their use. In my opinion they do not fall under the "must have" category of reefing. Using them means you have to wash them which means you are either rising them out by hand or throwing them into the washing machine or both. There is an opportunity to conserve on water and electricity here.

[Reef Pilot]

How efficient are in-sump pumps for heating water? For example, if I have a 100 watt pump running in my sump vs a 100 watt heater in my tank. Will both heat my tank equally? I assume not, but for sure the pump does produce a fair bit of heat as well.

In my specific case, I have 2 sumps, each with 2 pumps. One tank needs to be supplemented with a heater, while the other has bigger pumps and needs to be cooled with a chiller. And yes, I know some of the heating comes from the lights.

But just curious, what is the difference in heating efficiency between pumps and heaters?

[mike31154]

How efficient are in-sump pumps for heating water? For example, if I have a 100 watt pump running in my sump vs a 100 watt heater in my tank. Will both heat my tank equally? I assume not, but for sure the pump does produce a fair bit of heat as well.

In my specific case, I have 2 sumps, each with 2 pumps. One tank needs to be supplemented with a heater, while the other has bigger pumps and needs to be cooled with a chiller. And yes, I know some of the heating comes from the lights.

But just curious, what is the difference in heating efficiency between pumps and heaters?

Depends on the components I suppose, but a heater is purpose built to do just that, heat something up. So my guess would be that in most cases a heater will be more efficient. A pump's primary purpose is to provide some manner of mechanical function, with heat being a by product. Most pump designers will try to maximize the mechanical efficiency & minimize the heat. In your case, the 100 watt pump will be using most of that power to pump.

However, this doesn't mean we can't use the heat by product of our pumps to an advantage during the colder months. While I don't have a sump on my system yet, I do have plans for a basement sump at some point & have already acquired two different pumps, a Panworld & a Poseidon. Although both are external pumps, I understand the Poseidon produces a lot of heat which is xferred to the water while it's pumping. My plan is to use the Panworld in the summer, the Poseidon in the winter. I'll also insulate the sump in the basement with plenty of styrofoam.

[mike31154]

LED heater anyone? ;)

Put waterproof leds on aluminium blocks and submerge them into the water. They are "efficient" at emitting heat too isinit? ;)

Ok I shouldn't have said that being an electrical major :mrgreen: But then again, its not a crime thinking outside the box (or inside the water over here) ;)

Actually not such a bad idea really & I've found myself wondering why someone hasn't given this a go. Not only will you get at least some heat transfer to the water, you'll also benefit from having the light source very close to your livestock. It's common knowledge that distance is a killer when it comes to light loss. Downside is that you won't have that funky shimmer caused by a point source of light shining through surface agitated water.... and you'd probably need to scrape off algae once in a while... ok, I think now I know why no one's tried it...

Anyhow, waterproof SMD LED light strips have been available for quite some time now & I'm using a couple of 5050 strips to supplement my DIY 10 watt multichip build. Of course I don't have them in the water, but on a smaller system this could work quite well. It's a low voltage light source, so with proper water proofing it's no more dangerous (probably less so) than having a 300 watt heater running on 120 VAC submerged in your tank. I've ordered some LEDs that are submersible for my daughter's wedding this summer. No reason you can't throw a strip of waterproof SMD LED lighting into your tank.

Here's a photo of the waterproof RGB SMD 5050 strips I have. They're covered with a substantial layer of silicone like material. All you would need to do is keep the connectors out of the water, or just gum them up with silicone too. There are also more powerful 5630 SMDs available.

https://ojcrhq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pJlx1qpo6ZiqN3AfNVB_GiJajWph2Vj0eVWLEArXS9D_KUZK vynP5RWnGfQkGZHc31v5-G1qnOSQ/P1060144e.JPG?psid=1

[sphelps]

If you're going to submerse LED strips make sure you get IP68 rating, most are IP65 to 67 which qualifies as waterproof but not for long term submersion. The bigger issue however will be the constant need to clean the algae film off them, not sure you'll gain any benefit compared to just mounting them closer to the water surface without actually submersing them. You could always rig up a liquid cooled heat sink with some titanium tubing using tank water to extract the heat into the tank but not likely very cost effective.

[mike31154]

If you're going to submerse LED strips make sure you get IP68 rating, most are IP65 to 67 which qualifies as waterproof but not for long term submersion.

Good point about the IP rating. I should have mentioned that as well. And yea, the algae cleaning would get old pretty quick I reckon. May not be as much of an issue for our freshwater friends though.

[mrhasan]

Lol. Being an electrical major, you probably already know this but what makes leds so efficient is they put out more light energy vs heat energy than the other types of lighting. I never realized hoe much heat t5 can produce until I saw a buddy's 6 bulb fixture. Wow.

Yap. Technically, LED produce around 10% less heat than a typical fluorescent bulb. Its just that, fluros have a heat-light ratio of 95%-5% while LEDs have 85%-15%. Fluros cannot be fitted with heatsinks :P and hence LEDs get the big advantage along with being DC out-of-the-box.

[mrhasan]

How efficient are in-sump pumps for heating water? For example, if I have a 100 watt pump running in my sump vs a 100 watt heater in my tank. Will both heat my tank equally? I assume not, but for sure the pump does produce a fair bit of heat as well.

In my specific case, I have 2 sumps, each with 2 pumps. One tank needs to be supplemented with a heater, while the other has bigger pumps and needs to be cooled with a chiller. And yes, I know some of the heating comes from the lights.

But just curious, what is the difference in heating efficiency between pumps and heaters?

Mike already explained that well enough. I will just add some footnotes :P

Typically, heaters are considered to be the MOST EFFICIENT device you can put in your tank; because they use the loss as the utility - heat! So typically, you are getting 300W heat (or a little bit more since the filaments changes resistance a bit with heat or maybe a little less depending on how much the thermistor is taking away; and the small LED ;) ) from a 300W heater.

On the other hand, for a 300W pump, you will probably get around 150W of heat (loss) and the rest will go to the mechanical components.

[Baldy]

Yap. Technically, LED produce around 10% less heat than a typical fluorescent bulb. Its just that, fluros have a heat-light ratio of 95%-5% while LEDs have 85%-15%. Fluros cannot be fitted with heatsinks :P and hence LEDs get the big advantage along with being DC out-of-the-box.

I didn't want to throw any numbers out as the % I heard could be wrong. I heard incandescent was 90%-10% heat to light but I don't remember where I heard that. In any case artificial lighting is very inefficient by nature.

[kien]

in an effort to cut heating costs I have deployed 3 x 250 watt metal halides over my tank. This approach seems to work well as my 3 x 300 watt heaters only seem to kick in for a few hours during the late night hours.

[jagermaier]

in an effort to cut heating costs I have deployed 3 x 250 watt metal halides over my tank. This approach seems to work well as my 3 x 300 watt heaters only seem to kick in for a few hours during the late night hours.

That's fine in the winter but how high does your temp get in mid summer without a chiller?

[kien]

That's fine in the winter but how high does your temp get in mid summer without a chiller?

In the summertime we turn on the most expensive to run appliance that man has ever created.. Our central AC. Thankfully there's not that much "summer" to worry about in Cowtown :lol:

[jagermaier]

Haha, you have a point there! :lol:

[ckmullin]

In the summertime we turn on the most expensive to run appliance that man has ever created.. Our central AC. Thankfully there's not that much "summer" to worry about in Cowtown :lol:

http://i53.tinypic.com/13zooq8.jpg

...all that's needed! :wink:

[mrhasan]

in an effort to cut heating costs I have deployed 3 x 250 watt metal halides over my tank. This approach seems to work well as my 3 x 300 watt heaters only seem to kick in for a few hours during the late night hours.

And you don't to connect those halides to the computer to get the "sweet spot". ;) Some minutes of savings in computer's power too :)

[dustinc]

I understand that the little things count. But the op is asking about what changes can be made to save money on his power bill. At 10w it would take 4 days to use 1kwh. 16 days roughly to cost 1$. Heaters, return pump, and lighting are the worst aquarium related. If he wants to make an impact on his power bill, the rest of the house needs to be looked at. A 3 bulb light fixture with incandescent bulbs draws as much as a return pump. I have 4 in my 860sq foot house. How long are lights like that run in a day?changing to cfl bulbs (twistys) draw less than 1/4 the power. Electric range and oven? Probably draw 10+ amps when running. That's 1200w. Electric dryer, same story. These aren't ran continuously mind you, but these add up. Natural gas is far cheaper to run these things.

Those are the changes that are going to make an impact. If your talking about environmental impact, then again, how effective is cutting 8w out of daily power usage when there are so many things worse. I used to work on a drilling rig that used diesel generators. In the winter with the boiler running that rig would burn 2800 liters PER DAY in diesel fuel. This is a larger rig mind you, but there are over 700 running in Alberta last time I heard. These are thtw kinds of things that need to change. Alternative renewable fuel sources. I'd hate to see what kind of pollution 2800l of fuel burn would produce.

I'm not saying that its not worth looking into the little things, but my point is the big things need to be looked at first. 250w down to 100w has me now saving for a new return pump now. I've already switched to leds which for me went from 260w of power compact lighting to 160w of leds.

The next big question is heating. 400w of heaters running is worth looking into.
Yep and that's not being ran through any emissions equipment ether, we have 4 large diesel engines and not a single one has a EGR or even a Catalytic converter, let alone the Diesel Partical Filter and Urea there making me have on my car that gets 65mpg, every little bit helps though, that's why I drive a Jetta (not a huge lifted truck like most riggers) that gets better fuel mileage than a Prius and doesn't have those nasty environment destroying battery, Hybrids are a Joke! Start Stop technology, and small turbo diesels is the way to go!

[marie]

I haven't had heaters in my tank since I first set it up last may. I have glass covers on the top to keep humidity down. The tank drops to 79 degrees at night and with the halides on the tank reaches 82

[dustinc]

as far as saving energy ditching the sump would be the way to go!!, I changed sumps earlier this year so my tank was running for a couple hours sumpless, with only 1 heater ( I have one in the sump) my temp stayed steadier than it has ever been, so thats 480 watts of electricity there... 28 dollars a month to run my sump...