My seahorse tank is finally complete and now I am starting a 30

[Sengerseahorse]

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and to the wonderful hobby of salt water. I thought I would share that my seahorses are thriving in thier new home. I have had them for about 2 weeks now along with my garden eels and I have gotten the itch to go bigger. So.......

I started to build my 30 gallon tall tank yesterday with a ton of help from my husband and I am curious as to your thoughts on my contemplation and why you made that choice.

Sump or canister?

My seahorse tank is a 14 gal biocube stock skimmer, etc... Built specifically for my horses. My 30 gal is going to house a clown, tang, and possibly a fire angel and I am going to attempt some soft corals.

Thanks for your input.

[Madmak]

I would suggest a sump, simply easier to work with and add/change equipment as you wish. The added water volume also help with the parameters and buffers any issues.

More importantly, I'd love to see some pics of the seahorse tank! I have a JBJ 24 sitting empty that I was considering for stallions.

[fishoholic]

30g tall is to small for a tang. Tangs like length to swim in 6 feet long, 180g, is ideal for a tang. Minimum 90g for smaller tangs like a kole tang.

A 14g is small for seahorses, never mind garden eels. The 30g tall would be a much better environment for seahorses.

As for garden eels if you want to keep a group of them they do best with minimum flow, 6 inch sandbed in a 100g or lager tank. Info on garden eels.
http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewSpeciesMarine.php?id=184

http://sea.sheddaquarium.org/sea/fact_sheets.asp?id=108

Can't help but wonder (since you have one post) if you are for real and honestly don't know any better or just attempting to get a rise out of people for having and talking about inappropriate set ups.

[gridley]

Welcome to Canreef. As you are here in Calgary a good help are the folks at Concept Aquatics - they will be able to you help think through the requierments for a healthy system.

[tim the toolman]

I agree with Laurie. Tanks sizes are much too small for what you intend on putting in them. Canreef is a great place place to inquire about anything you may need to know going forward. Welcome to the hobby. And welcome to canreef. And welcome to the jungle.:razz:

[Sengerseahorse]

Well wasn't that a nice warm welcome!

Dear Fishaholic;

YES I am for real, no I wasn't trying to get a rise out of you but obviously did.

I like to live by the old adage of if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

YES this was my first post on this particular forum whether you want to believe it or not, that is your choice. Everyone had to start at 1. Even you.

Wow.

[Baldy]

She wasnt trying to offend or make a rude comment. the tang issue is one that is hotly debated on this and many forums. what fishaholic is trying to say is more research into what your trying to keep is needed. if you put a tang in a 30g, it might be fine for a little while but it will very quickly outgrow the tank. at that point they get very stressed and wont live long. i cant speak for the garden eels myself. liveaquaria is a good starting place when researching new fish. there are many other good resources on the internet. research is key to keeping a successful tank!

[rayjay]

Yes, you do elicit responses when you post stating you have/propose conditions that hobbyists who truly research their hobby already know are not optimal or recommended.
Your 30g tank would be suitable to move a pair of standard seahorses to as the minimum recommended tank size for one pair is 29/30g, and an EXTRA 15g for each ADDITIONAL pair. This is without other tank mates.
Seahorses need the larger volume because in short time, they "dirty" the water so much that it feed bacterial beds like vibrio species, especially if the temperature is over 74°F. You don't really see the "dirty" but it comes from the eating habits of seahorses in that they masticate the food as they snick it up, passing particulate matter out through their gills and into the water column.
Also, any unseen uneaten food that can be trapped, also provides bedding for the vibrios and low volumes exacerbate the problem.
If you are interested in learning about your new seahorse keeping hobby, and are interested in doing the best you can for your charges, you can read the links at the BOTTOM of the page linked in my signature, "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping", written by experienced keepers and by probably the most respected seahorse breeder in North America.
Included in the links there should be a "tank mates" link which if you check it out, will show that garden eels are a threat level four, where zero is good and four is worst case scenario.
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/eels.shtml

[fishoholic]

Well wasn't that a nice warm welcome!

Dear Fishaholic;

YES I am for real, no I wasn't trying to get a rise out of you but obviously did.

I like to live by the old adage of if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

YES this was my first post on this particular forum whether you want to believe it or not, that is your choice. Everyone had to start at 1. Even you.

Wow.

This is why I offered advice first before asking if you were for real or just new to the hobby and didn't know any better. Sadly there are people out there who create accounts and say things the most aquarists disagree with just to get a rise out people and start a hot debate. It sometimes gets to the point were you don't know if it's a newbie really seeking advice or if it's someone upset with canreef creating a new user name and account just to stir up trouble. Honestly the later does happen. I've overheard people in the fish stores brag about going to their friends house (in order to have access to a different ip address) and create a new account just to make posts that would "stir the pot" so to speak. So sorry, but I was curious and had to ask.

She wasnt trying to offend or make a rude comment. the tang issue is one that is hotly debated on this and many forums. what fishaholic is trying to say is more research into what your trying to keep is needed. if you put a tang in a 30g, it might be fine for a little while but it will very quickly outgrow the tank. at that point they get very stressed and wont live long. i cant speak for the garden eels myself. liveaquaria is a good starting place when researching new fish. there are many other good resources on the internet. research is key to keeping a successful tank!

Thank-you, I was trying to give helpful advice for the OP to be aware of.

[Sengerseahorse]

Yes, you do elicit responses when you post stating you have/propose conditions that hobbyists who truly research their hobby already know are not optimal or recommended.
Your 30g tank would be suitable to move a pair of standard seahorses to as the minimum recommended tank size for one pair is 29/30g, and an EXTRA 15g for each ADDITIONAL pair. This is without other tank mates.
Seahorses need the larger volume because in short time, they "dirty" the water so much that it feed bacterial beds like vibrio species, especially if the temperature is over 74°F. You don't really see the "dirty" but it comes from the eating habits of seahorses in that they masticate the food as they snick it up, passing particulate matter out through their gills and into the water column.
Also, any unseen uneaten food that can be trapped, also provides bedding for the vibrios and low volumes exacerbate the problem.
If you are interested in learning about your new seahorse keeping hobby, and are interested in doing the best you can for your charges, you can read the links at the BOTTOM of the page linked in my signature, "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping", written by experienced keepers and by probably the most respected seahorse breeder in North America.
Included in the links there should be a "tank mates" link which if you check it out, will show that garden eels are a threat level four, where zero is good and four is worst case scenario.
http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/tankmates/eels.shtml



I understand your point of view and respect others points of view but asking if I am for real or just trying to get a rise out of people was an outright insult to me. I may not be a "professional hobbiest" and some may not agree with what I have in my tank, but that doesn't warrent rude and disrespectful statements as such.

My dwarf seahorses and eels are living in harmony right now with perfect water params. I do plan on moving my 2 eels from my 2 seahorse tank as soon as I am cycled, but none the less they are all doing great. My biocube was the tank that was recommended to me for my horses which is why I bought it and the reccomendation was from a guy I have known for many years who knows his saltwater. It is specifically planted and built just for them.

[viperfish]

A 14 gallon Biocube is plenty for Dwarf Seahorses. Of course the bigger the better but you're fine for now.

[rayjay]

If you are that offended by his post then perhaps this isn't the forum for you.
It was an honest post elicited by the facts stated in your original post.
IMO, you need to start to trust more knowledgeable people regarding seahorse keeping as just knowing salt water aquariums is far from sufficient.
Even keeping H. fuscus would be challenging long term in a tank that small, but H. reidi, H. erectus, or H. kuda and other standard sized seahorses would require very due diligence to housekeeping, and, frequent large water changes, to ensure long term survival.

Viperfish, a 14g is actually not good for dwarf seahorses. (unless you have about 150 or so dwarfs in it)
Better to use a 5g because dwarf seahorses usually don't hunt for their food but rather stay hitched and wait for their food to come by so they can snick it up, requiring heavy food density, a big waste in larger tanks. (uneaten bbs need to be removed before adding the new enriched bbs)
Sengerseahorse will have a chore to keep his dwarfs fed properly in the long term.

[somewherebeyondthesea]

If you are that offended by his post then perhaps this isn't the forum for you.
It was an honest post elicited by the facts stated in your original post.
IMO, you need to start to trust more knowledgeable people regarding seahorse keeping as just knowing salt water aquariums is far from sufficient.
Even keeping H. fuscus would be challenging long term in a tank that small, but H. reidi, H. erectus, or H. kuda and other standard sized seahorses would require very due diligence to housekeeping, and, frequent large water changes, to ensure long term survival.

Viperfish, a 14g is actually not good for dwarf seahorses. (unless you have about 150 or so dwarfs in it)
Better to use a 5g because dwarf seahorses usually don't hunt for their food but rather stay hitched and wait for their food to come by so they can snick it up, requiring heavy food density, a big waste in larger tanks. (uneaten bbs need to be removed before adding the new enriched bbs)
Sengerseahorse will have a chore to keep his dwarfs fed properly in the long term.


I am also setting up a seahorse tank, and by using the same site as you described, many of the species can be kept in tanks smaller than 30 G. (according to the chart) for example H.Zosterae can be kept in a min 5 G tank, and a H.Procerus could be kept in a min 10 G tank.

Don't get me wrong there are many larger species that require minimum 29-65 G, but if one did enough research, couldn't they properly keep a specific species in a tank smaller than 30 G?

Again just so I don't get read the riot act by other passionate canreefers, I want to really stress the fact that I've been researching seahorse care since November 2012 (I've been collecting a binder full of info). I have started building a seahorse tank since January, with the intent of placing them in said tank in April once I beleive the parameters are correct and the tank parameters are stable.

I welcome your thoughts with an open mind, and maybe even a little thick skin. I realize canreefers can be aggressive, but realize it is tough love, I too have a newfound strong passion for this hobby and I hope I never come across as offensive...but rather informative!:biggrin:

[fishoholic]

For the record I wasn't trying to offend, and IMO I wasn't asking in a rude manner. I was just asking a question out of curiosity, because sometimes you never know.

[somewherebeyondthesea]

For the record I wasn't trying to offend, and IMO I wasn't asking in a rude manner. I was just asking a question out of curiosity, because sometimes you never know.


I can vouch for you Laurie! I beleive we met at the last Edmonton meet! I can safely say you did not throw off any negative vibes, nor were you rude by any means. In fact you were very chipper...almost too chipper :razz:

But you were also very passionate about your many tanks that you've spent many countless hours on. I really enjoyed talking with you and everyone there, as it truly excites people to talk about this hobby.

What I was trying to convey in my last post was that because of the emotionlessness nature of text....it has no feeling! So the emotion side is left to the interpriter, and as a result of that, misunderstandings of tone and feeling are bound to happen!

That and I'm finding there are very few people with any Seahorse Experience.....or they are keping all their valuable experience to themselves!

Hope that cools everyones jets! :biggrin: I really enjoy this forum because I can really nerd out about my reefing! (nobody else understands me :cry: )

Cheers! and Keep posting!


Steve

[Pan]

From the view of the original OP, who might never have been on a forum to have been called a troll from the start, or at least suspected of it could have triggered their anger.

A pm might have worked better in this case :)

But I agree the quicker and unfortunately more forcefully we stick to an ethical view towards livestock the better - we are all of course keeping animals in a glass box would would prefer the wild..Tank raised perhaps aside.

But there are most assuredly minimums required in this hobby..(strange word when you think about the welfare of living creatures as a hobby).

The Original Poster does not meet them, and their lack of knowledge is seemingly quite large (the quip about a friend recommending is not good enough to defend against poor research, what Laurie was taking issiue with I think is the desire to become responsible for the welfare of living creatures without first properly researching them. It is not enough to say oh I will fix it later, much like the Its okay for now I'm gonna upgrade....upgrade first lie later...

Just because they look healthy now does not mean they are, and one day when you come home and they are dead you will either try again (remember living creatures) or be fed up with the keeping of marine creatures. One who practices good, reliable, conscientious husbandry is always preferable to the oh it died i'll just get another.

Most people on this forum feel strongly towards the animals in their care...you will not find much sympathy for lack of research or bad husbandry practices I don't think.

But all that being said, Welcome to Canreef...let the lifelong learning commence :)

[rayjay]

Yes, he says he has dwarfs and they are H. zosterae. You can fit 3 or 4 on a loonie. Smaller species (pygmy) cannot at this time be kept in captivity, at least by hobbyists and I don't think public aquaria have succeeded long term.
Many species, including H. procerus, are not available to the hobbyist, especially to us here in Canada.
H. fuscus can be kept a pair to a 20g tank but at the moment there are none of those available in the US and I've never seen them in Canada in my 10 plus years of seahorse keeping.
Availability is worse now than some years back when we could get true captive bred from Australia. I used to have H. barbouri and H. angustus that now are not shipped to Canada.
I have now H. zosterae, H. reidi, H. kuda, and H. erectus.
The erectus I imported from seahorsecorral.com about 15 months ago because I couldn't talk any store into bringing them in. Now, Sea U Marine in Markham in Ontario is bringing them in.
I also brought in dwarf H. zosterae at that time.
I didn't know there were any available out west until he posted that he had dwarfs.
There HAVE been successes keeping seahorses in situations not recommended, but the are the exceptions and not the norm. Many seahorses are lost in the attempts to do so.
The successes would have to do much more extreme houskeeping and larger and more frequent water changes to be successful when kept in smaller tanks than recommended.
Unfortunately, people being people, sometimes when everything is going good with no apparent problems, a water change gets skipped here or there, or a housekeeping chore is delayed, and then all of a sudden, a seahorse or seahorses are in trouble, often leading to their demise.
Normally, the water can be problematic and you don't know it because all the hobbyists kits don't test for things like the advancing vibrio type species, or pathogens picked up from tankmates, the two biggest causes of seahorse losses.
Seahorse.org is the most up to date source of information, but a lot of the articles in the library have become outdated so one needs to frequent the forums to really know what is currently known for best chances of success.

[Sengerseahorse]

This forum was recommended to me from a friend. Obviously you people are not very accepting of new people coming on here.

What offends me might not offend you, but how would you feel if the first post you do you get your ass chewed off by a bunch of people and are asked if you are for real or are just trying to get a rise out of people.

If this is what the saltwater community in Canada is like, **** it! Do yourselves a favor, drink and beer, smoke your drugs, watch your fish, and enjoy your little life of making mine miserable for the last 48 hours.

I have more in life to worry about then this bull****. I am not into these high school games. You wanted me out, I'm out!

[fishoholic]

I can vouch for you Laurie! I beleive we met at the last Edmonton meet! I can safely say you did not throw off any negative vibes, nor were you rude by any means. In fact you were very chipper...almost too chipper :razz:

But you were also very passionate about your many tanks that you've spent many countless hours on. I really enjoyed talking with you and everyone there, as it truly excites people to talk about this hobby.



Thank-you, we did, and it was nice meeting you too :biggrin: I am very bubbly and generally a very happy person, I am quite passionate about the hobby and at times I get carried away and I sometimes go a bit overboard. Ironically some people have wondered (and actually asked me) if I was for real because of how I'm always usually fairly chipper/happy and easy going. It's just the way I am, but if someone is not used to that, I can see how it could throw people off.

From the view of the original OP, who might never have been on a forum to have been called a troll from the start, or at least suspected of it could have triggered their anger.

A pm might have worked better in this case :)

Good point.

I will confess I was originally thinking the OP was MarkoD. I had overheard him say if he ever got banned (for a prolonged period of time) then he'd go to a friends house and create a new account and start controversial threads. So I do apologize to the OP, for this not being the case, but at the time, I couldn't help but wonder if it was.

what Laurie was taking issiue with I think is the desire to become responsible for the welfare of living creatures without first properly researching them.


Exactly

[Zoaelite]

This forum was recommended to me from a friend. Obviously you people are not very accepting of new people coming on here.

What offends me might not offend you, but how would you feel if the first post you do you get your ass chewed off by a bunch of people and are asked if you are for real or are just trying to get a rise out of people.

If this is what the saltwater community in Canada is like, **** it! Do yourselves a favor, drink and beer, smoke your drugs, watch your fish, and enjoy your little life of making mine miserable for the last 48 hours.

I have more in life to worry about then this bull****. I am not into these high school games. You wanted me out, I'm out!

So you were here to get a rise out of people...?
What is it with all of these Seahorse crazies making accounts and posting gibber jabber?

[fishoholic]

This forum was recommended to me from a friend. Obviously you people are not very accepting of new people coming on here.

What offends me might not offend you, but how would you feel if the first post you do you get your ass chewed off by a bunch of people and are asked if you are for real or are just trying to get a rise out of people.

If this is what the saltwater community in Canada is like, **** it! Do yourselves a favor, drink and beer, smoke your drugs, watch your fish, and enjoy your little life of making mine miserable for the last 48 hours.

I have more in life to worry about then this bull****. I am not into these high school games. You wanted me out, I'm out!

It's not high school games and I have apologized. I honestly thought you were someone else trying to stir stuff up, and I thought if this was the case, I'd call you out on it. You explained this was not the case and I apologized to you for it. If you can't accept an apology then that's your problem not mine.

In the first post I offered solid advice based on what you posted (as well as others have) and yet you seem to be more focused on me wondering if you were who you say you are then the advice being given. I would of thought after I initially apologized for that, that you would of calmed down and started to listen to the advice being offered. Unfortunately this makes me wonder if you really care about the advice being offered or if you're happy to go about doing things they way you want regardless of the outcome.

[Zoaelite]

Good point.

I will confess I was originally thinking the OP was MarkoD. I had overheard him say if he ever got banned (for a prolonged period of time) then he'd go to a friends house and create a new account and start controversial threads. So I do apologize to the OP, for this not being the case, but at the time, I couldn't help but wonder if it was.



Exactly

Marko is trolling under fishyfishster now. My MarkoDar went off the charts after reading this thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=93862).

[fishoholic]

Marko is trolling under fishyfishster now. My MarkoDar went off the charts after reading this thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=93862).

:lol:

[tim the toolman]

This forum was recommended to me from a friend. Obviously you people are not very accepting of new people coming on here.

What offends me might not offend you, but how would you feel if the first post you do you get your ass chewed off by a bunch of people and are asked if you are for real or are just trying to get a rise out of people.

If this is what the saltwater community in Canada is like, **** it! Do yourselves a favor, drink and beer, smoke your drugs, watch your fish, and enjoy your little life of making mine miserable for the last 48 hours.

I have more in life to worry about then this bull****. I am not into these high school games. You wanted me out, I'm out!


I really think that you are taking things out of context with peoples responses. On this forum people are (in most cases) animal lovers first and hobbyists second. So far with the exception on Laurie's first post, which I know she meant no harm with, and she has aplologized for any misinterpretation of her comments, you have been given some very good info. I am actually thinking seahorses for my next tank and have found this thread very informative. Don't let this one first experience run you off canreef. This place is an endless supply of good information as well as a great group of like minded people which extends far beyond salt water.

[The Codfather]

This place is an endless supply of good information as well as a great group of like minded people which extends far beyond salt water.

I think this as well, however, some people need to stop what they are doing and think before they type.
Just reading this thread I now understand why we don't have a lot more members. One thing for sure was true, we all started at first base, everyone.
For those who had to try and prove their point, good job, lets harass some more new members.
Grow up.

[Aquattro]

This has run it's course, let's all move along.