Open Bottom Aquarium

[burge1234]

Hello. I am in the works right now of building an open bottom aquarium for myself or possibly for sale. Is there anyone that has experience or interest in these concept tanks?

[Aquattro]

Won't the water fall out?

[burge1234]

no it gets trapped in there. Once the tank is displaced with water it will stay there unless something can take its place. Being that the tank is a sealed chamber it stays suspended in the tank. Its the same science behind the old upside down cup in the kitchen sink. Fill the sink and turn a cup sideways till it is full of water. Then turn it upside down and pull the cup. Presto the water is suspended in the glass. Same idea here.

[subman]

Do you have any links or pics of this idea? I

[burge1234]

I dont displace the tank that way though obviously. Be a lot of weight. Ive seen people use an air hose and suck the air out while water in the lower tank replaces the air. I have a special pump to do it though. Ive had a quick set up going for a month now. I just wanted to try this idea out before I ordered the glass for the upper tank. The lower tank and cabinet have been built already

[Proteus]

Wouldn't fish swimming out the bottom. Or how do you suspend rock and coral

[burge1234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5InNVJ_Ythc
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/external-link/?external_page=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatc h%3Fv%3DkIx0IJNtf5s

[fishyfishster]

I've seen this before but don't think it'll work we'll with saltwater. You won't be able to run a sump or skimmer. The bottom tank is gonna be too shallow for a hang in back skimmer

Plus you'll need a very accurate ato top off. If air gets into the top tank you'll have a major flood

[Zoaelite]

Seems like an interesting concept, the only thing I'm confused about is how you would remove the air pocket?

Simple as sticking airline tubing up there and sucking?

[burge1234]

yes they would swim in and out of the bottom and as for coral you can just build up your rock if you like. I see it being set up as an all fish aquarium though. Right now I have some live rock and coral in my set up but you dont really see it until you look down the upper tank. It is a very unusual look in person. Its almost like there is another dimension to the tank. Dont really know how to explain that part of it

[burge1234]

actually I am running a sump with mine right works the same as any other tank. As for the big mess im not to sure how that would ever happen. Other than the upper or lower tank breaking. Be the same mess if a regular tank broke. But lets just say there was no sump and as the water evaporates the level would drop in the lower tank reaching the brim of the upper aquarium. Thats where you think you lose your hydrostatic pressure and the upper tank would dump its water volume making a mess?? It doesnt though. What happens (cause i tested this out) the upper tank does a big burp or gulp if you will for air until the water rises in the lower tank, goes above the brim and then stops. Its all really quite simple and fool proof.

[subman]

You could run a sump and skimmer anything really. In all reality you could have a 24" depth normal tank with a 4ft tall tank coming out of the middle. Neat idea I remember looking at one a couple years ago and wanted to do it but forgot over time lol

[subman]

What's your plan? Size? Shape?

[don.ald]

I would like to see pics of what you have now!:biggrin:

[burge1234]

*actually i am running a sump with mine right now, works the same as any other tank***

[subman]

I saw that just a slow typer lol

[burge1234]

Right now its a total of about 110 gallons without the sump but thats with a tank that i just had laying around for the upper tank to try it out. All I have to do now it order glass for the upper tank and finish a bit of the cabinetry work. All said and done it will be pretty close to 150 gallons total but you will see about 90 gallons of tank. But when you lift the lids to the lower tank you see the rest of the set up. Its basically going to look like a regular aquarium stand but the tank will look like a glass box with fish trapped inside. Also makes it a 360 degree tank. Great for behind a couch or in the middle of a show room or office.

[Proteus]

Really neat idea. You could have a look down and tall column AIO

[burge1234]

my lower tank is 9 inches deep. The upper tank will be about 30 leaving 20 inches of viewing area with the lids for the bottom. Which shouldnt be bad considering there are no obstructions and viewing area on the top. Right now my cats love laying on top of the tank looking down at the fish

[burge1234]

........

[Ram3500]

You gotta post some pictures . It sounds so cool dangerous cool .:twised:

[burge1234]

.....

[sphelps]

So why wouldn't you expand on the idea behind the fluval edge tank? This just looks like a really inconvenient way of doing the same thing.

[burge1234]

with the fluval edge you have to keep up on water evaporation. if you dont you will always have a water level line showing. Along with the pump and heaters in view. This concept gives you a 360 view plus top view of your tank with no pumps, heaters or cords blocking your view. With what i have set up now i would have to have about 20 gallons of water to evaporate before the water level in the upper tank would change. And with a sump it will never change unless you really neglect your tank. The only piece of equipment that will be seen in the tank will be the light which i will be hanging from the ceiling. Its wont be for everybody I know that for sure but the whole concept is very neat and attractive to look at from all angles. It has also proven to be quite a conversation piece for everyone that comes over. Dont get me wrong i will never not have a traditional tank for one reason only. I cant see the bottom of this tank without the lids open which in a reef tank is the most exciting part for me. As for the fluval edge..... without an automatic top off i just see it being a pain

[paddyob]

I don't see the appeal. Seems like a Maintenance nightmare. What about oxygen exchange and beneficial evap in hotter months?

I personally don't even think it looks good. It looks messy where it meets the cabinet. Just my opinion of course. I prefer traditional set up where all my cords are hidden by the cabinet or behind the tank out of view.

Good luck. Dibs out.

[lastlight]

with the fluval at least you can have rockwork and coral in the tank. this way it seems like everything is below in the lower tank anyways?

[sphelps]

I'm not saying buy an fluval edge but expand on the idea. Make it bigger and add an overflow (many have done this). You could also center the overflow instead of having it at the back to allow for 360 viewing, run an extra dummy pipe in the overflow for cords. You're likely going to light the tank so it has a partial lid anyway and you can cover the overflow with rock. Another option is a zero edge tank (http://marquetteturner.com/modern-furniture-the-zero-edge-aquarium/). Either way you'll have access from the top with the same effect.

[lockrookie]

Pros:
open swim area
Unique conversational piece

Cons:
cleaning
Water changes unless done in sump
Coral viewing unless fowler
Coral placement and feeding
Leaky seal and flood
Removing air bubbles that may form on the higher level
Water movement in higher area may be difficult to achieve

It's a neat idea one I have mulled over for awhile myself although I'd try to have the lower portion more visible if possible and hide the plumbing differently. One thing I have learned if you think it can malfunction it will and this is why I didn't try building one. If you can get the water params right with the low flow style setup it may potentially be a good seahorse setup but feeding them would be difficult as well

[Ram3500]

Look's cool ! It just need some fish . You should grow a bunch of mangroves in the bottem tank .

[burge1234]

you still have evaporation from the lower tank. I didnt just make a glass box fill it up and seal it up with no sides open. As for how it looks as i said this is just a partial set up like i said before. None of the space between the cabinet and the tank will be seen because there will be frosted glass lids. And yes I realize that you wont see the bottom of the tank there as i said before. I didnt want to show this until it was done 100% but i had a few requests so figured why not. I have built tanks before and to me it was like yup..... it is a tank just like every other one. As for your ideas sphelps I do agree with those tanks more or less the zero edge aquarium. I really like those but they can seem blurry when you look through them. Everyone has and opinion. If I had built a zero edge aquarium people would ask why not build one thats bigger or maybe smaller or why not do a traditional tank. There will always be someone that doesnt like it and feels it is there job to tell them that. You can trust me. I know of every kind of tank out there. .... But it has also been done before. I like to challenge myself and do something different. If no one ever did that we would still be in the stone age im afraid

[burge1234]

water changes on this set up are easier than any other tank i have had. The water level is right at your hips in the lower tank. The air bubbles get sucked out by the lifter pump which also fills the tank. You can actually have an air stone running into the upper tank and the lifter pump taking it out. As for a leaky seal......... Isnt that a disaster in every application??????

[burge1234]

thanks ram 3500 yes i have looked into those but i need to get this finished first.

[lockrookie]

Don't get me wrong I think it's neat I just couldn't justify trying it for myself and will be following along. And yes a leaky tank in most tanks is a bad thing full on shatter is be worst. But for a normal tank point of view with a leaky tank you can slow the leak and deal with the issue. With minimal damage. In your setup if you have an air leak on the upper area unless you have a sump to handle the extra water I fear it would drain that column fairly quickly.

Again I will be following along as I like the idea and just glad someone is giving it a try

[don.ald]

Looks like a fun and interesting build.
I like it!

[mark]

think any air bubbles that might collect would annoy the crap out of me

[kien]

This sounds like a neat little project. Way to think outside of the box :-)

[burge1234]

If there was ever a leak in the upper tank the water would drain into the lower tank and sump not my floor. And yes you are right about it taking on air which makes it really easy to patch. Use bubblegum if you want the vacuum created by the hole would make it stick. Plus the surface would be dry to silicone. Also. If it was a full break at least my live stock would be safe in my lower tank. And yes you are right about it leaking faster but I also have a window to work with before its on my floor. A leak is a leak. And a break is a break. Doesn't matter what you have and what shape upside down side ways.... It sucks period done so you can try and say your tank is better for a break or leaks if you like but its pointless to me. What's next? Earthquake? Cause I can sum that up to.... Probably sucks as well. If you can't think outside of the box then don't get out of it!!!

As fir the air bubbles in the top.... I have had some when I water change but I just use my lift pump and suck them out. Takes about 5 min. A person could plumb a line to the top to constantly pull the air out and even run an air stone but then you are running the risk of a loss in pressure of the upper tank. I've done it though. Looks really nice..... But risky. If the lift pump fails and the air stone continues to pump you are in for a world of hurt. You would have to have the air pump on a float for safety. Or you run tge lift pump on a loop. The air in sucks from the top it feeds to the air stone in a cycle. But not sure if that's good for the water. I'm still looking into it. If any one knows that I owe yoi beer

[burge1234]

Sorry lockrookie. I ment to mention that You are right about the column draining faster because the air isn't viscous like water. You just have to hope you are there when it happens. Would be easy to spot though

[Ram3500]

Hey have you thought how a loss of gravity or a polar shift would affect your open bottom tank ? You know I'am just saying you never know it could happen. You would be laughing at all of us sheep .:lol:

[burge1234]

Lol I'll sleep on that one. Better get the p.o. Physics book out things are getting interesting lol

[burge1234]

Ol physics book. Bloody auto correct

[StirCrazy]

Personly, not my cup of tea. Why would you want to look through yet another pain of glass.... the only time i have been a fan of this is when conecting two different tanks as i did many moons ago with fresh water. I basicly used two 49 gal tanks side by side and used 4" acrylic pipe in a "U" shape to conect them. And yes fish would swim through the pipe.

Steve

[burge1234]

No comment

[Salt2Death]

Too many negative comments! I can't understand why, is this not a hobby that should embrace ingenuity? Ideas like this should excite us not incite a forum riot..... Like school yard bully's picking on the new kid- it's a new idea and its really neat.
Bottom line, I would never built it but I will take the time to follow along and enjoy this build as I have watching many others.
Good Luck Man- It's A Cool Idea


Sent Via The Pirate Ship...

[somewherebeyondthesea]

Too many negative comments! I can't understand why, is this not a hobby that should embrace ingenuity? Ideas like this should excite us not incite a forum riot..... Like school yard bully's picking on the new kid- it's a new idea and its really neat.
Bottom line, I would never built it but I will take the time to follow along and enjoy this build as I have watching many others.
Good Luck Man- It's A Cool Idea


Sent Via The Pirate Ship...

+1

[burge1234]

Thanks!! I was going to stop posting because of this. I can understand that this is not for everyone. Low and behold personal taste. What Im not understanding is the comments towards the problems with this tank. It's like they are just out to cut other people's designs and ideas down. Like the guy who said they can't have sumps.... Why not? I have mine hooked up no problem. They can't ask if it can have a sump they tell me. Or tell me that mine leaks worst lol. Never heard of a tank that's a more of a leak proof design. Let me ask you guys something. Do you own one? Cause I do. And all the problems you name off I'm not having.. It's actually been super easy to take care of. Alot better than I thought it would be and I haven't even built the upper tank that will make maintenance even easier. And look 10x better. So with the problems you guys seem to think it has you best stick with reefing and away from engineering

[lockrookie]

Don't take the negativity to heart it is an interesting design as for my comments where only made to help for back ups to the back ups in case of the worst. Trust me my tanks are not "to code" sort of speak concidering my returns are half way down the tank one oops and I have half my tank water on the floor. It may seem critical towards your design but as I stated I e thought of it and now I'm going to see how it works through you concidering the wife will kill me if I tried.

Do what you do and have fun in the end that is what it's all about

Gonna return to my lurking now

[mandyplo]

Lol why would anyone want to do this in their home? Seems like bad news bears.... Ill advised.

[somewherebeyondthesea]

Thanks!! I was going to stop posting because of this. I can understand that this is not for everyone. Low and behold personal taste. What Im not understanding is the comments towards the problems with this tank. It's like they are just out to cut other people's designs and ideas down. Like the guy who said they can't have sumps.... Why not? I have mine hooked up no problem. They can't ask if it can have a sump they tell me. Or tell me that mine leaks worst lol. Never heard of a tank that's a more of a leak proof design. Let me ask you guys something. Do you own one? Cause I do. And all the problems you name off I'm not having.. It's actually been super easy to take care of. Alot better than I thought it would be and I haven't even built the upper tank that will make maintenance even easier. And look 10x better. So with the problems you guys seem to think it has you best stick with reefing and away from engineering


Go hard buddy! Haters gonna hate! :biggrin:

[kien]

Thanks!! I was going to stop posting because of this. I can understand that this is not for everyone. Low and behold personal taste. What Im not understanding is the comments towards the problems with this tank. It's like they are just out to cut other people's designs and ideas down. Like the guy who said they can't have sumps.... Why not? I have mine hooked up no problem. They can't ask if it can have a sump they tell me. Or tell me that mine leaks worst lol. Never heard of a tank that's a more of a leak proof design. Let me ask you guys something. Do you own one? Cause I do. And all the problems you name off I'm not having.. It's actually been super easy to take care of. Alot better than I thought it would be and I haven't even built the upper tank that will make maintenance even easier. And look 10x better. So with the problems you guys seem to think it has you best stick with reefing and away from engineering


It's human nature. People are afraid of what they do not understand :lol:

Less chatter more pictures! :biggrin:

[Whiston]

It's human nature. People are afraid of what they do not understand :lol:

Less chatter more pictures! :biggrin:

Yes, get 'er done!
I want to see how your coral placement ends up. it would be kind of interesting to see coral growing up into the upper display area.

[sphelps]

I think people understand it just fine. You're building a tank with essentially zero access. Most people like to be able to do things like place/move corals/rocks, clean stubborn coraline, clean the sand/bottom and remove unwanted pests without having to drain the tank completely. People also don't tend to like light being filtered by 1/2" glass. Doesn't mean you can't do it but you can't get upset with everyone because they think it's a bad idea which to be completely honest, whether you admit it or not, this is a pretty terrible idea.

Remember you asked for peoples experience and to see if anyone would be interested in buying it, so you got you asked for, no reason to cry about it. If you started a build thread with the intend if just sharing your creations you wouldn't get the same feedback.

My original comments were meant to be helpful, pointing out other common designs that give the exact same effect while still allowing access.

[kien]

I think people understand it just fine.

Yes, there are a lot of people who understand this concept, but if you re-read the first page (and the second and the third) of this thread you will also notice that there were a lot of questions regarding this idea which suggest to me that some people didn't quite understand the idea. Just sayin :-)

[kien]

Hello. I am in the works right now of building an open bottom aquarium for myself or possibly for sale. Is there anyone that has experience or interest in these concept tanks?

and for the record, the original poster wants to do this and appears to know what they are doing as they have answered everyone's questions on this idea. They did not ask, "should I do this", or "do you think this is a good idea?". I could be wrong but I think maybe what the OP is looking for are people who are actually interested in this idea and has experience with this sort of tank. :biggrin:

How about we try to be a bit more open minded? :-)

[sphelps]

Open minded is a two way street.

Regardless whether the tank has a sealed top or not, it's a salt tank. We all have experience with this sort of tank. Most of us now how important access is, which is why many of us limit the size/height to something manageable.

Given the nature of the thread I think people are entitled to speak from experience which I still read as requested. It's also good public interest for people to know the pros and cons of a design like this if it were to be sold.

[kien]

Regardless whether the tank has a sealed top or not, it's a salt tank. We all have experience with this sort of tank.

I am going to keep an open mind and agree to disagree with you :-)

Anyway, I'm still interested and would love to see a build thread as the build progresses. Don't let all the negativity dissuade you in your plans. I'm sure if you started a journal you'll find lots of interested people tagging along.

[lastlight]

Kien doesn't even have 3500 posts so keep that in mind when passing judgement on anything he says.

[sphelps]

I am going to keep an open mind and agree to disagree with you :-)

Anyway, I'm still interested and would love to see a build thread as the build progresses. Don't let all the negativity dissuade you in your plans. I'm sure if you started a journal you'll find lots of interested people tagging along.

I'd also like to see the build, I'm guessing everyone would but this isn't a build thread. If I was to ask you if you were interested in something, there's essentially two answers, yes or no. The point is you can't get upset if you get more no's than yes's.

[lastlight]

The point is you can't get upset if you get more no's than yes's.

you're going to dig up a lot of old dating memories for keener. easy now.

[daniella3d]

wow, how do you do water change in that thing? seem like a disaster waiting to happen.

I have enough worry about my tank as it is, I would surely not go put hundreds of $$$$ in corals and fish in such a tank.

Interesting concept though, just I would not trust it.

[daniella3d]

ok, what if the lifter pump fails?

water changes on this set up are easier than any other tank i have had. The water level is right at your hips in the lower tank. The air bubbles get sucked out by the lifter pump which also fills the tank. You can actually have an air stone running into the upper tank and the lifter pump taking it out. As for a leaky seal......... Isnt that a disaster in every application??????

[burge1234]

If you drill a small hole in your return line just under the water level, or at the level that your sump can hold you won't have a flood. When your pump turns off it will siphon out your tank until it gets to that hole you drilled and then lose its siphon. Run your return all the way to the bottom of your tank with that trick.

[burge1234]

Absolutely. What I did not see coming was people telling me how it is and saying it's a terrible idea. If you don't like the idea ok. But saying things like it can't have a sump and all the other things posted in here saying how it is when it's really not the case is what ****es a person off. And you do have access to the tank from the bottom. I can reach every corner of the upper tank with my hand. As for the glass thing I can kind of understand that but I am using sapphire glass which is crystal clear glass and doesn't filter colours. But yes I can understand that some people may not like it. Personal preferences is fine by me. Saying it's a terrible idea because it's not your preference is called rude buddy

[kien]

Saying it's a terrible idea because it's not your preference is called rude buddy

Don't let them get ya down. You seem to me like you know what you're doing and I for one would love to see more of it :-)

[burge1234]

Thanks I appreciate it. As for more pictures you will have to wait until I at least get the upper tank built or at least get the cabinetry work all done. Cheers

[kien]

Thanks I appreciate it. As for more pictures you will have to wait until I at least get the upper tank built or at least get the cabinetry work all done. Cheers

Awesome, now how about that build journal? :-)

[StirCrazy]

Saying it's a terrible idea because it's not your preference is called rude buddy

How true. I think it is a neat system just not for me. I like to see new and different ideas myself, even if they dont turn out. (Not saying this wont ) i have tried several things myself that were doomed from the start. Difference is no one said anything till after i threw money down the toilet :mrgreen:

If this is what you want go for it. I personaly would lile to know how you get you hand in the tank to do something though :lol: it looks like there is onlu a couple inches of room in that picture.

Steve

[burge1234]

Yes with that tank you can barely get your arm in. I just set that tank up foe a trial phase. It's just a regular tank sitting on some aluminium blocks to see how this concept will work. The custom tank being built will be about 12" taller and have a window cut out at the bottom 5" tall and span 30" I built a mock up out of wood just to get the sizes right

[Kitkat4ever]

I'm excited about this build because if I was just about to start on a project very similar to this. I went to my local glass shop today to get a price estimate on the glass & he looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears. After a few minutes of explaining he finally said ok I'll cut the glass for u as many times as u need me to, it ain't gonna work but ill take ur money. All these derogatory remarks just makes me want to prove them all wrong :-)

Good luck on this I'm sure it will be awesome