Blue Linckia questions

[SanguinesDream]

So I bought this beautiful Blue Linkia sea star yesterday and I thought that I asked all the right questions but I didn't research about acclimating prior to putting it in my tank.

The gent at the lfs stressed that the salinity must be at 1.025 and as I checked my tank that morning, I was right on the button. Unfortunately, I did not know about not exposing it to the air, the gent at lfs did, so a big deduction right off the start. I did buy the piece of liverock that it was attached to, so as not to stress it out. But I did not drip acclimate it and just placed it in my QT tank.

Then I read up on them.....:sad:

This am I rechecked my parameters and still like yesterday's, but I checked the tank water it came with and kt was at 1.024. Eek!!! Am I doomed? Anyone with experience?

[fishyfishster]

the exposed to air thing is like a 50/50 chance tho

[albert_dao]

:/

Honestly, I just doublecheck salinity and dump them in. That's probably bad advice, but I've been doing it for years without issue.

Linkias are hardier than people give them credit for as long as they're shipped well. Just make sure you have a mature tank for them as they only feed on bacterial films.

The whole exposure to air thing is nonsense, IME.

[naesco]

So I bought this beautiful Blue Linkia sea star yesterday and I thought that I asked all the right questions but I didn't research about acclimating prior to putting it in my tank.

The gent at the lfs stressed that the salinity must be at 1.025 and as I checked my tank that morning, I was right on the button. Unfortunately, I did not know about not exposing it to the air, the gent at lfs did, so a big deduction right off the start. I did buy the piece of liverock that it was attached to, so as not to stress it out. But I did not drip acclimate it and just placed it in my QT tank.

Then I read up on them.....:sad:

This am I rechecked my parameters and still like yesterday's, but I checked the tank water it came with and kt was at 1.024. Eek!!! Am I doomed? Anyone with experience?

By not acclimatizing the linkia very slowly you hightly stressed the creature. All inhabitants need some degree of acclimatization. One can not simply throw them in IMO>

As was posted the importantant thing is to have a mature tank so they do not starve to death. You can slow add more salt to raise to saliity.

[kien]

Am I doomed? Anyone with experience?

Maybe yes, maybe no :-)

The blue linckia is a very delicate starfish that does not easily tolerate sudden changes (oxygen level, pH, salinity, etc). This is why the fish store stressed that your tank be 1.025 because the LFS probably assumed that their tanks were 1.025. A very very very very slow drip acclimation period is recommended to help them adjust to your tank parameters. Or if the water that they are coming from is identical or near identical in parameters to your tank then you shouldn't need to acclimate for as long. Exposing them to air is typically not recommended but it isn't the end of the world. If the starfish is strong and healthy a brief spell out of the water shouldn't mean doom and gloom for your starfish so long as the the new water that they are going into has the same (or very close to the same) parameters as the water it came from.

Unfortunately there really isn't much you can do about it at this point. Your new starfish is going to do what he's going to do, and that is, either live or die.

[albert_dao]

One can not simply throw them in IMO>



OKAY.

I haven't done this hundreds of times. My bad. Oh no, wait...

Look, here's the real problem: Collecting and shipping use to really suck. I mean it was TERRIBLE. This was a few years back, so most of the Linkias entering the trade were already in a state of terminal health. So regardless of whether or not you spent the ten years acclimatizing them, they died. People go the impression that they were unreasonably sensitive.

Since then, collection techniques have improved, packing has improved and the overall health of the animals is much better than it use to be. As long as you take the time to make sure your salinities don't vary drastically, you will be fine. On the other hand, if you bought an animal that was already terminal, no amount of fussing over the acclimatization will save it from turning into a eroding slimy blue ball of snot.

TL : DR - there's no magic voodoo behind salinity. If your LFS has a salinity of 1.025 and you have the same, just float, cut and dump. Acclimate if it makes you sleep better at night. If your salinity varies by a point or two, acclimate, but it's probably not going to be a game breaker. If you salinity varies a lot, well, you shouldn't have purchased the animal in the first place.

[MMAX]

I found out the hard way with a sand sifting star a few years ago. Didn't slow drip him and soon after he started dropping his arms until he finally died. Live and learn I guess.

[albert_dao]

I found out the hard way with a sand sifting star a few years ago. Didn't slow drip him and soon after he started dropping his arms until he finally died. Live and learn I guess.

HONESTLY, if your water was within a point or two of difference, the star was probably already on its way out...

[naesco]

OKAY.

I haven't done this hundreds of times. My bad. Oh no, wait...

Look, here's the real problem: Collecting and shipping use to really suck. I mean it was TERRIBLE. This was a few years back, so most of the Linkias entering the trade were already in a state of terminal health. So regardless of whether or not you spent the ten years acclimatizing them, they died. People go the impression that they were unreasonably sensitive.

Since then, collection techniques have improved, packing has improved and the overall health of the animals is much better than it use to be. As long as you take the time to make sure your salinities don't vary drastically, you will be fine. On the other hand, if you bought an animal that was already terminal, no amount of fussing over the acclimatization will save it from turning into a eroding slimy blue ball of snot.

TL : DR - there's no magic voodoo behind salinity. If your LFS has a salinity of 1.025 and you have the same, just float, cut and dump. Acclimate if it makes you sleep better at night. If your salinity varies by a point or two, acclimate, but it's probably not going to be a game breaker. If you salinity varies a lot, well, you shouldn't have purchased the animal in the first place.

I am happy you are an agreement with me.
Yes collection and shipment is much much better because of the efforts of the fishers and exporters.
But we as aquariists must also make the effort to insure that the sailnity, temperature and PH in the bag we bring from the LFS is the same as in our tanks. We can't assume it is the same. We accomplish this by slowly acclimatizing the linckia (fish or invert) so that the animal is not stressed.

[kien]

also keep in mind that there are two issues or challenges with Blue Linckias.

1. is the acclimation phase. The whole process of getting them into your tank comfortably. As Albert suggested, if the starfish has been handled with care then this acclimation phase should go smoothly without too much stress on the starfish. Otherwise it could go badly..

2. is the long term survivability phase. The whole process of making sure they stay alive in your tank. Keeping them long term is notoriously difficult for may reasons. This is another example of, "if it were easy everyone would have one".

[Aquattro]

2. is the long term survivability phase. The whole process of making sure they stay alive in your tank. Keeping them long term is notoriously difficult for may reasons. This is another example of, "if it were easy everyone would have one".

right there is why I won't get one. Last thing I need is an eroding slimy blue ball of snot

[Proteus]

Next time a fromia may be a better choice. They come in a number of colors and patterns and I believe are hardier than linkia

[albert_dao]

Next time a fromia may be a better choice. They come in a number of colors and patterns and I believe are hardier than linkia

I have the opposite experience. I find Fromia to be legit sensitive, especially during shipping.

[Proteus]

I have the opposite experience. I find Fromia to be legit sensitive, especially during shipping.

I tried a linkia. Didn't work, and I don't want to try again. I had a fromia for a year and have. It went through three tank changes and did fine though I know it still past I think it was because the small tank wasn't mature enough and it ran out of food. I would love another star but am unsure if its wise in a small tank

[fishoholic]

The whole process of getting them into your tank comfortably.



This line made me snicker. I thought my blue linkia was comfortable in my 80g but admittedly I hadn't seen him in awhile. Then I remembered, at some point in time, a few weeks ago my drain pipe that goes from my 230g reef to my 80g was making funny noises. Well just the other day, low and behold, there's my blue linkia in my 230g reef tank??? WTH??? Somehow he climbed up the pipe in the 80g all the way into my 230g :surprise: So on a side note if you haven't seen the starfish in awhile, and you have a sump, check it.

Anyway, yes slower acclimation is better, but if the temp and salinity are close then I usually just mix a bit of the water together, wait a bit, then dump it in :biggrin:

[albert_dao]

I tried a linkia. Didn't work, and I don't want to try again. I had a fromia for a year and have. It went through three tank changes and did fine though I know it still past I think it was because the small tank wasn't mature enough and it ran out of food. I would love another star but am unsure if its wise in a small tank

Well, in the event that sample size has any bearing on the debate, I've done thousands of each :)

[SanguinesDream]

Fortunately, this specimen is very turgid and in great conditions with no lesions or pits. It has already moved itself to the dark side of the tank and the liverock it came on has a mysis colony in it.

I did gradually lower the salinity today so I am crossing my fingers.

[reefwars]

to me starfish are food for shrimps:P

[SanguinesDream]

to me starfish are food for shrimps:P

Noooo! Don't say that, they might hear you.

[Delphinus]

Interesting. I used to think stars were needing fairly long acclimations, I always dripped mine over a ridiculous number of hours .. so it is nice to hear that this may not be needed.

Two thoughts, however, that I'd like to add to this:

1. It was my understanding as of a few years ago at least, that the eating habits of non-predatory stars (such as fromia and linckia and the others that look like those) is just not really understood. Whether they adapt to captivity or not is largely based on whether they adapt to eating whatever is available to them in the tank.

2. Some things seem to need to be acclimated. Shrimp for sure can suffer from osmostic shock. I don't think they need a huge dripping period but definitely not too instantly.

[mrhasan]

I know that to some extend, exposing starfish to air cause death is a myth. Here are some links to defend my claim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOBqEPX6GM

(move to 0:50 and you will see some blue starfishes, possibly linckia, are exposed to air due to low tied. If air exposure was bad for them, they would possibly be endangered by now)

http://greennature.com/article29.html

(this article says that starfish can be stressed when exposed to low tides since their body doesn't have the ability to moist up or something for extended period of time; something that SPS can do to tackle low tide)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1497693

(refer to post 6)

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-205142.html

(one post presents two scientific papers; one saying air is harmless while other say it can harm)

Air exposure can affect every marine creature to some extend. But I don't think it is as religious as many sources claims that air is fatal to starfish. The only common marine life for which air exposure is instantly fatal in this hobby is sponge (there should be others too but atleast not starfish).

Please do correct me if I am wrong :)

[Leah]

I have always kept at least one Blue Linkia, never had a problem with keeping them long term. Interesting!

[kien]

I have always kept at least one Blue Linkia, never had a problem with keeping them long term. Interesting!

There are always exceptions to the rule and we all know how exceptional you are Leah :-D

[SanguinesDream]

Thanks everyone for your informative responses. Little blue dude's doing great moving around the liverock grazing as he goes. Very active and lesion free.