New list of reef fish

[ruslicus]

HI
I am setting up new 65g system with 25g sump. Currently I have a few corals and Firefish with Yellow tail damsel, transferred from my Nano 28g tank. I am planning to have mainly SPS and few LPS such as hummer and blastomusso (my fave). I want to start thinking about the fish to supplement my small list. I want colorful and interesting type of fish. As well I want to have one school type of fish as well. Want to create a list suitable for my system and reef safe. I love tangs and triggers but I am afraid not suitable. Anyways my idea was, in order to insert into the system:

1. School of chromis/anthias/cardinal fish – 5/6 fishes
2. Picasso in pair with Tomato
3. Tail Spot Blenny (not sure as will be hiding a lot)
4. Looking for one large type fish such as Kole Tang or Yellow Tang or Powder Blue Tang (until gets big :razz:) or Foxface.
Any comments and input are welcome Thank you.

[albert_dao]

Get cardinals as your schooling fish. You can probably add 10 of these without too much issue.

Pick ONE species of clownfish, not two.

The blenny won't add much bioload. Go ahead and add one.

If you want more of a show fish, go with either a Kole Tang or consider something like one of the smaller Geniacanthus angels. If you want a rabbitfish, find yourself a Siganus doliatus. That fish is mack daddy.

Actually, I have better suggestions than this. What's your budget?

[ruslicus]

Now I am working on unlimited budget :) well I want to do my best. interesting about cardinals didn't know. Is the angel reef safe? I heard they are picking on SPS.

[chevyjaxon]

Cardinals arent really swimmers, Angels are reefsafe with caution. the caution part meaning luck of the draw, each fish has a personality all there own so you may or may not get a reef safe angel. pretty sure foxfaces are coral eaters or nippers at the very least, correct me if im wrong. look forward to seeing you progress.

[albert_dao]

Look up Geniacanthus. They're less like angels and more like overgrown anthias.

If you have a good budget, check these out:

• schooling* fish - small group of one of the nicer fairy/flasher wrasses (Lubbocks, Flame, Lineatus, McKosker's, etc), group of Royal Grammas (you have to buy these small and on the SAME DAY that they land, Royal Grammas change sex fast in captivity without a social hierarchy)

• cool little benthic fish - Ember blenny, Blue Spotted Jawfish, Dwarf Golden Moray, Mandarinfish, Yasha Haze Goby w/ Randall's Pistol Shrimp pair.

• showpiece fish - Geniacanthus wantanabei, Chaetodon declivis, Chaetodon mitratus, Marine betta, Starki Damsel, Candycane Hogfish.

[albert_dao]

Cardinals arent really swimmers, Angels are reefsafe with caution. the caution part meaning luck of the draw, each fish has a personality all there own so you may or may not get a reef safe angel. pretty sure foxfaces are coral eaters or nippers at the very least, correct me if im wrong. look forward to seeing you progress.

Foxfaces are like Angels, you get the one out of 50 that's a stupid outlier.

[ruslicus]

Cardinals arent really swimmers, Angels are reefsafe with caution. the caution part meaning luck of the draw, each fish has a personality all there own so you may or may not get a reef safe angel. pretty sure foxfaces are coral eaters or nippers at the very least, correct me if im wrong. look forward to seeing you progress.

This why I am looking for anthias or chromis. I want the school but swimming school.
So I guess I will exclude the foxface from my list since it is not reef safe :). But some websites list them as reef safe :)
I need to decide what show fish I need to get. I really like tangs, and was thinking a powder tang to get 2"-3" one and keep couple of years and change it :)

[ruslicus]

Look up Geniacanthus. They're less like angels and more like overgrown anthias.

If you have a good budget, check these out:

• schooling* fish - small group of one of the nicer fairy/flasher wrasses (Lubbocks, Flame, Lineatus, McKosker's, etc), group of Royal Grammas (you have to buy these small and on the SAME DAY that they land, Royal Grammas change sex fast in captivity without a social hierarchy)

• cool little benthic fish - Ember blenny, Blue Spotted Jawfish, Dwarf Golden Moray, Mandarinfish, Yasha Haze Goby w/ Randall's Pistol Shrimp pair.

• showpiece fish - Geniacanthus wantanabei, Chaetodon declivis, Chaetodon mitratus, Marine betta, Starki Damsel, Candycane Hogfish.

Thank you Albert. I will have to look in all of these type of fishes and mostly to find one who sells them :) One more thing I forgot to mention I have barebottom tank so no gobies :)

[SoloSK71]

Isn't the marine betta a carnivore and will eat smaller fish as well as some invertebrates?

Charles

[chevyjaxon]

fairy wrasses are good, anemone and clown is neat too!

[albert_dao]

Isn't the marine betta a carnivore and will eat smaller fish as well as some invertebrates?

Charles

Well, yes, but you'd have to be talking SUPER SMALL FISH and INVERTS. Think Trimma gobies and sexy shrimp small. And let's face it, what doesn't eat those?

For the record, I've kept them with all manner of Lystmata shrimps and blennies without issue (6-8" individual).

I really wish this fish wasn't so overlooked due to its status as a "grouper". It's a fantastic reef fish.

[fishoholic]

A 65g is way to small for any tang or rabbitfish (even a small one) so scrap that idea. Pick one type of clownfish and stick with that as different types will fight and try to kill each other.

There are lots of nice colourful fairy wrasses that you could look into. If you're willing to take a risk with your coral a dwarf angelfish can be a beautiful addition. Tail spot blenny's are awesome fish and once they settle into your tank they are often out in the open were you can see them.

Anthias can get pretty big and are fairly tricky/finicky fish. Ideally you want 5-7 females to one male or just keep only one anthia. Also most people think of them as fairly peaceful fish but in reality most anthias are really mean/aggressive towards other fish. My 2" tiara anthia has gone after my 3-4" yellow tang, and he killed a fairy wrasse.

If you want schooling fish I'd stick to chromis or cardinals.

[ruslicus]

Hey Albert, you attracted my attention for wrasses group. How many you think would be suitable for 65g tank?
So thinking of:
1. Yellowtail Damsel (have it)
2. Firefish (have it)
3. Group of wrasses
4. Blenny more likely Tailspot as it is barebottom
5. Pair of Tomato clowns
6. Show fish type of tang or other.

[albert_dao]

Chromis... don't... school.

(in reef tanks).

[fishoholic]

Well, yes, but you'd have to be talking SUPER SMALL FISH and INVERTS. Think Trimma gobies and sexy shrimp small. And let's face it, what doesn't eat those?

For the record, I've kept them with all manner of Lystmata shrimps and blennies without issue (6-8" individual).

I really wish this fish wasn't so overlooked due to its status as a "grouper". It's a fantastic reef fish.

They are a cool fish but they are shy and they hide a lot of the time. Also a 65g is to small of a tank for a marine betta

[ruslicus]

A 65g is way to small for any tang or rabbitfish (even a small one) so scrap that idea. Pick one type of clownfish and stick with that as different types will fight and try to kill each other.

There are lots of nice colourful fairy wrasses that you could look into. If you're willing to take a risk with your coral a dwarf angelfish can be a beautiful addition. Tail spot blenny's are awesome fish and once they settle into your tank they are often out in the open were you can see them.

Anthias can get pretty big and are fairly tricky/finicky fish. Ideally you want 5-7 females to one male or just keep only one anthia. Also most people think of them as fairly peaceful fish but in reality most anthias are really mean/aggressive towards other fish. My 2" tiara anthia has gone after my 3-4" yellow tang, and he killed a fairy wrasse.

If you want schooling fish I'd stick to chromis or cardinals.

Totally agree about Tang in 65g tank. It is my type of color/shape/behaviour fish for show fish :) so would be tang until I find something :)

[albert_dao]

They are a cool fish but they are shy and they hide a lot of the time. Also a 65g is to small of a tank for a marine betta

Varies from fish to fish. I've had both shy guys and bar stars (well, the marine betta equivalents), lol.

Hey Albert, you attracted my attention for wrasses group. How many you think would be suitable for 65g tank?
So thinking of:
1. Yellowtail Damsel (have it)
2. Firefish (have it)
3. Group of wrasses
4. Blenny more likely Tailspot as it is barebottom
5. Pair of Tomato clowns
6. Show fish type of tang or other.

Trio? Foursome? Quintet? Whatever's within your means and availability. They have a pretty marginal impact on bioload. Keep in mind that it is one male per species to each tank though.

The rest of your list looks fine.

A 65g is way to small for any tang or rabbitfish (even a small one) so scrap that idea.

I do not agree with this statement. Kole tangs and doliatus rabbits are perfectly content in a 65 as long as you don't have a rock wall taking up all the space.

[ruslicus]

Do I have to insert the whole group together or I can do it in stages?

[naesco]

Varies from fish to fish. I've had both shy guys and bar stars (well, the marine betta equivalents), lol.



Trio? Foursome? Quintet? Whatever's within your means and availability. They have a pretty marginal impact on bioload. Keep in mind that it is one male per species to each tank though.

The rest of your list looks fine.



I do not agree with this statement. Kole tangs and doliatus rabbits are perfectly content in a 65 as long as you don't have a rock wall taking up all the space.

The rabbit needs a minimum 100 gallon. see comment

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/fish/index.php

The powder blue is completely out of the question. Kole tangs kinda hang around rather than swim and are doable in a smaller tank but there are tons of smaller fish more suitable for your tank.
With wrasse you need a top for your tank or they will jump

[albert_dao]

The rabbit needs a minimum 100 gallon. see comment

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/fish/index.php

The powder blue is completely out of the question. Kole tangs kinda hang around rather than swim and are doable in a smaller tank but there are tons of smaller fish more suitable for your tank.
With wrasse you need a top for your tank or they will jump

Why is that author's generalized commentary more valid than my observation?

[albert_dao]

Do I have to insert the whole group together or I can do it in stages?

Try to do it all at once. No squabbling over pecking order.

[reefwars]

honestly russ you want a nice tank so id scrap the common fish idea like the tomato clown and fire fish and damsel, since you have a rimless tank i doubt your going to cover it so avoid jumpers if you can.

sounds like you want movement

i love the ember blenny suggestion, love the kole tang suggestion,id do a designer pair of clowns maybe some snowflakes and i would do a anthias maybe a bartlett( i love these guys )



i always pick fish for jobs so a mandarin/scooter is a must have for me , same with a wrasse in which case i love leopards and a black leopard would fit your tank fine provided you can find a place for him to sleep, they are also tricky to get eating but much easier then other leopards are.

cheers

denny

[naesco]

Why is that author's generalized commentary more valid than my observation?

Nothing personal Allbert but I thought it was too small a tank and when a poster opined that it was too small I checked on line.
The sources suggested a larger than 65 gallon so I posted the reef-keeping article for the OP to decide for him/her self.
We reefkeepers strive for the optimum conditions for the fish we remove from the ocean so it is better to always suggest a larger tank if there is a difference in opinion.

[reefwars]

With wrasse you need a top for your tank or they will jump

not all wrasses are jumpers ,would depend on the type and individual fish though alot do jump for sure.

[albert_dao]

Nothing personal Allbert but I thought it was too small a tank and when a poster opined that it was too small I checked on line.
The sources suggested a larger than 65 gallon so I posted the reef-keeping article for the OP to decide for him/her self.
We reefkeepers strive for the optimum conditions for the fish we remove from the ocean so it is better to always suggest a larger tank if there is a difference in opinion.

My problem with this is the "oh sh_t, we don't want to say anything that would make us liable for anything, let's play it safe" level of caution that online authors subscribe to. Honestly, I've had two doliatus rabbits for over three years now. They're both in 120 gallon tanks. They're 4.5" tops and drift in the same spot all day long. I know they can get bigger and can swim more, but I don't see it happening in captivity.

On that note, has anyone ever seen a powder blue tang in captivity that was larger than 6"? Hell, how about 4.5"?

[naesco]

My problem with this is the "oh sh_t, we don't want to say anything that would make us liable for anything, let's play it safe" level of caution that online authors subscribe to. Honestly, I've had two doliatus rabbits for over three years now. They're both in 120 gallon tanks. They're 4.5" tops and drift in the same spot all day long. I know they can get bigger and can swim more, but I don't see it happening in captivity.

On that note, has anyone ever seen a powder blue tang in captivity that was larger than 6"? Hell, how about 4.5"?w

All of my tangs except for the kole, and yellow exceeded 6 inches.

I agree that you likely wont find a powder blue tang over 6 inches in captivity. But that is because powder blue tangs have a very poor survival rate. They live for a few months maybe a couple of years and than get sick and die for no apparent reason. I did have a powder brown tang that lived for 11 years and it grew to over 6 inches

[ruslicus]

honestly russ you want a nice tank so id scrap the common fish idea like the tomato clown and fire fish and damsel, since you have a rimless tank i doubt your going to cover it so avoid jumpers if you can.

sounds like you want movement

i love the ember blenny suggestion, love the kole tang suggestion,id do a designer pair of clowns maybe some snowflakes and i would do a anthias maybe a bartlett( i love these guys )



i always pick fish for jobs so a mandarin/scooter is a must have for me , same with a wrasse in which case i love leopards and a black leopard would fit your tank fine provided you can find a place for him to sleep, they are also tricky to get eating but much easier then other leopards are.

cheers

denny

Denny does ember blenny require sand? as I have barebottom.

So my list now is:

1. Damsel and Firefish is already in tank :) so no way I will get them out, just if I decide to tear it down.
2. Ember or Tail spot Blenny. I like ember blenny but have to check on sand bed.
3. A group of anthias (like bartlets) or McCosker's Flasher Wrasse. I like very much Lineatus Fairy Wrasse as per Albert, but I am affraid will not find and will cost me a fortune.
4. Will look into nice pair of clowns. I would be looking into the clowns that will host anemonies
5. As a show fish I will say Kole Tang for now.

Denny would yo be able to find me these fishes stage by stage?

[ruslicus]

Denny does ember blenny require sand? as I have barebottom.

So my list now is:

1. Damsel and Firefish is already in tank :) so no way I will get them out, just if I decide to tear it down.
2. Ember or Tail spot Blenny. I like ember blenny but have to check on sand bed.
3. A group of anthias (like bartlets) or McCosker's Flasher Wrasse. I like very much Lineatus Fairy Wrasse as per Albert, but I am affraid will not find and will cost me a fortune.
4. Will look into nice pair of clowns. I would be looking into the clowns that will host anemonies
5. As a show fish I will say Kole Tang for now.

Denny would yo be able to find me these fishes stage by stage?

So decided to go for Watanabei Angelfish (if I can find the small male) or Kole Tang as a show fish. in rest stay the same!

[albert_dao]

So decided to go for Watanabei Angelfish (if I can find the small male) or Kole Tang as a show fish. in rest stay the same!

No such thing as a small male :P

They're all born females. Dominant fish turn into males.

[ruslicus]

No such thing as a small male :P

They're all born females. Dominant fish turn into males.

Ooops I don't want female :) if it is just one fish in a tank would it be a male? it is such a beauty the male :0 any ideas where i can find one?

[albert_dao]

The revert back into females without company :P

If you don't want a pair, I'd consider something else. Perhaps the Kole?

[ruslicus]

Do you think I can have a pair of Watanabei Angelfish in my 5g system? at least for couple of years until grow and then replace? I really like the color and behavior of this angel fish.

[ponokareefer]

Do some research on anthias school before you get them. Long term, there success rate is very poor.