Anyone had any luck getting rid of hair algae?

[christyf5]

It ain't pretty but I need some sort of strategy for this stuff. I had a bit of a crash a couple months ago and the stuff popped up out of nowhere. I haven't had to deal with HA since I started in this hobby many many years ago (although I've dealt with every other kind of algae it seems). So far I've been picking/siphoning it out but to no avail. I added about 10 astreas and an urchin. So far about 4-5 snails have croaked (also have some cyano and some sort of odd brown cyano, I assume that is killing them but who knows). No interest in a lawnmower blenny because once the HA is gone there will be no more food source and rehoming fish here is next to impossible.

So, new bulbs coming within the week. All parameters are good:

temp 78.9
SG 1.026
alk 9 dkh
ca 450ppm
PO4 0.03ppm
NO3 5ppm

So, anyone have any magic bullets or will it be a combo of time and diligence. I don't have a lot of time for the tank lately but if someone has a good success story it would be encouraging :biggrin:

[ocean diver]

Weekly water changes of 10%, lite feeding only, clean all "crap" out and suck HA out also, run reactor with GFO. This will work and will take some time to see results.....about a month!!!

[Myka]

The brown cyano may be dinoflagellates if the snails are dying. :( Do you have a calibrated digital pH meter to test pH? Test kits are useless for pH.

The mini crash suggests you're dealing with nutrients from die-off. Temporarily (or permanently) adding extra water flow to stir things up better would help a lot. Especially blowing behind rocks and down by sandbed. Maybe look into vodka/vinegar dosing or biopellets until you're under control again. Some Lawnmower Blennies will eat prepared foods (most won't), you could look for one that will. Or a smaller species Foxface Rabbitfish if you have room in the tank. Be diligent with weekly 10% waterchanges taking the time to pull out the algae (12-18" tweezers are handy for this purpose).

What is Mg at? Do you dose Mg? If so, which product?

In the end, elbow grease and time.

[christyf5]

The brown cyano may be dinoflagellates if the snails are dying. :( Do you have a calibrated digital pH meter to test pH? Test kits are useless for pH.

The mini crash suggests you're dealing with nutrients from die-off. Temporarily (or permanently) adding extra water flow to stir things up better would help a lot. Especially blowing behind rocks and down by sandbed. Maybe look into vodka/vinegar dosing or biopellets until you're under control again. Some Lawnmower Blennies will eat prepared foods (most won't), you could look for one that will. Or a smaller species Foxface Rabbitfish if you have room in the tank. Be diligent with weekly 10% waterchanges taking the time to pull out the algae (12-18" tweezers are handy for this purpose).

What is Mg at? Do you dose Mg? If so, which product?

In the end, elbow grease and time.

The brown cyano isn't dinoflagellates. No bubbles and it doesn't come back in a matter of hours like dinos.
I've already got a ridiculous amount of flow (wavebox, tunze 6100, 6080 and 6045, vortech MP40, dart return full open). I have been turkey basting and siphoning where things pile up (I've angled the flow to pile detritus in easy access points).
I do 20% weekly waterchanges which have sort of fallen off into bi and tri-weekly waterchanges but I'm getting back on track the past few weeks.
No vodka/vinegar dosing. Even if its the holy grail I'm done with that stuff, its too "smoke and mirrors" for me.
Might have a look for a foxface rabbitfish, fish are slim pickins around here, if it wasn't in Finding Nemo or an "aggressive"/FOWLR type its unlikely I'll find it. I haven't had much luck with fish that are supposed to eat certain types of algae. I think my other fish just tell the new ones to hold out for prepared foods. My fish are a bunch of lazy arses.
Mg is at 1290, working on raising it up but I rarely go past 1300. The tank uses a ridiculous amount of Mg. I use Elias magnesium mix, he does the Randy Holmes-Farley recipe for me and a doser takes care of the rest.
Already running GFO, can't say I'm impressed with this last batch from BRS, it doesn't seem to be doing a bloody thing, all the phosphate just goes straight to whatever algae is breeding away in the tank so PO4 levels are usually low.
No pH meter, it died awhile ago and I never replaced it. Tank was always 8.1-8.3 though and frankly the tank used to run at 7.8 and looked the best it ever did.

I think Ocean diver has it right though, elbow grease and time. I'll see if I can jack up my Mg levels. I've read that higher levels (1400+) can help knock it back as well.

Thanks for the ideas :biggrin:

[burgerchow]

Only thing that works 100% is a sea hare or a couple of them. Had bad hair algae problem a couple years ago. Tried all the standard methods to eliminate it, but nothing worked til I introduced sea hares. They munch that stuff off right to the roots so they don't grow back. Problem is you will need to re home them once all your algae is gone, or they will starve.

Toke-toke-pass.

[toxic111]

For me on my old 33 it was pulling rock right out & scrubbing it with a nail brush. The 10% water changes twice a week. Tried GFO, but never really worked for me, I moved to Probidio and that seemed to help. It did take me 6 months or more to beat it.

[hillegom]

You could try hydrogen peroxide. Read this

http://www.frozenocean.org/t1710-hair-algae-experiment-with-hydrogen-peroxide

And this

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/

[Aquattro]

I can probably get you a seahare on loan. Also have a reactor and pellets if you want to try that. We also have a foxface in town, IIRC.

[ScubaSteve]

I know you said no to vodka dosing but when I had HA problems, that was the only think that got rid of it. And it disappeared really fast. I think within a week of vodka+MB7 dosing my HA had mostly melted away. Now I do 0.6 ml vodka daily and the tank is sparkling clean. Don't go the biopellets route. The more I see people having issues with them, the more I'm convinced they can do more harm than good. Vodka dosing gives you better control over the process.

Between that and a seahare you'll have the issue nicked in no time.

You could try hydrogen peroxide. Read this

http://www.frozenocean.org/t1710-hair-algae-experiment-with-hydrogen-peroxide

And this

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/

Peroxide does work but I really need to stress that peroxide and living tissue is a seriously bad combo. I've read some horror stories of this trick going badly for some people. I work with peroxide and work and know first hand the damage it can do, especially in the presence of UV. If you run metal halides, only dose the peroxide after the halides go out otherwise you are making radical species which go all Chuck Norris on anything alive it comes in contact with.

[SanguinesDream]

I've used the ole elbow grease method of taking the rock out and scrubbing the pieces with a vegetable scrub brush. Works like a charm. :biggrin:

[Werbo]

#1 tooth brush plus elbow grease. Do little every night.

Snails wont touch the long hair algae but they will keep it in check after the rock is scrubbed.

Gfo won't hurt and some say elevated Mg will help also.

[kien]

sounds like an nutrient spike causing the algae bloom. I had something similar when I reset my tank this past fall. All sorts of funky algaes, cyano, etc popping up where it never used to before. Then I decided to put my BioPellet reactor back on line to more aggressively attack nitrates even though it was already pretty low at <4ppm (certainly not Ultra Low, but I've never had algae problems with that kind of a nitrate reading in the past). Anyway, a few weeks of that and the algae started to die back. I also had to change GFO more frequently (like once a week!) because it was getting used up pretty quick. Probably due to phosphates leaching out of my old rocks. I' think I've sucked it all up now cuz I'm back to once a month replacement with the GFO.

[Skimmerking]

Christy read this about lime water and magnesium and strontium


I have been battling red turf since 2004 and still can't beat it and I think that I have figured it out. Since I have been using the kalk stirrer for so long. Its depleting my magnesium and strontium which I. Fact works along with CAL AND ALK as we all know. Over the course of time kalk strips the ions that mag is found in in kalk paste. This is the minerals that are found in the left over kalk paste. Any ways have a read it was in the advanced reef reading y Ron sheimek


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/chemistry

[naesco]

Based on my experience, Burgerchow has the best answer and you have an offer for a loan of a seahare. Take it is the best option. You know that you have to acclimatize her slowly.

Frequent water changes and getting rrid of the latest and greatest snake oil methodology willl get you on track.

Wayne

[gregzz4]

I haven't eliminated whatever causes HA in my tank, but my longspine urchin and Strawberry Tophat snails keep it mowed down nicely
I tried elevated Mg before that but didn't see any significant 'quick' results

Adding the snails was the best thing I ever did
I have 3 in my 75g

[Myka]

The brown cyano isn't dinoflagellates. No bubbles and it doesn't come back in a matter of hours like dinos.

Ok, well that's good.

I've already got a ridiculous amount of flow (wavebox, tunze 6100, 6080 and 6045, vortech MP40, dart return full open). I have been turkey basting and siphoning where things pile up (I've angled the flow to pile detritus in easy access points).Ok, move them around then so that you stir up crap. Put a filter sock on the drain(s) so you catch it all. In the cleanest of tanks you can move the powerheads around and stir crap up.

No vodka/vinegar dosing. Even if its the holy grail I'm done with that stuff, its too "smoke and mirrors" for me.It's not smoke and mirrors, but ok.

Might have a look for a foxface rabbitfish, fish are slim pickins around hereGetting a fish or invert (like seahare) isn't the best option anyway since that method will not necessarily remove the nutrients from the system. The nutrients will go into the animal and come out the other end as nutrients. Once the nutrients have become fish/hare poop again they have a second chance at being skimmed or filtered out though so there is that benefit.

Plucking it out with tweezers (or removing the rock and scrubbing if you really want to) is often the best idea since you are permanently removing the nutrients that are within the algae.

Mg is at 1290, working on raising it up but I rarely go past 1300. The tank uses a ridiculous amount of Mg. I use Elias magnesium mix, he does the Randy Holmes-Farley recipe for me and a doser takes care of the rest.Since magnesium chloride hexahydrate is only abut 35% magnesium (epsom salts are about 39% Mg) and the total amount of Mg within the system is relatively high (hopefully) around 1300-1400 ppm it does take a lot of Mg supplement to increase Mg. If you use aquarium products rather than bulk chemicals (like BRS) then you may need to use even more since some aquarium Mg products have less than 10% Mg. Anyway, use as much as you need to get Mg up at NSW value, it will help with algae problems. If you want to prevent adding so much chloride to the tank you can use 10% epsom salt.

Already running GFO, can't say I'm impressed with this last batch from BRS, it doesn't seem to be doing a bloody thing, all the phosphate just goes straight to whatever algae is breeding away in the tank so PO4 levels are usually low.GFO can only get nutrients that are in the water column, so it doesn't do a darn thing for the algae that is already present. GFO prevents the growth of more algae.

No pH meter, it died awhile ago and I never replaced it. Tank was always 8.1-8.3 though and frankly the tank used to run at 7.8 and looked the best it ever did.Maybe you did more frequent waterchanges or had lower stock back then...who knows. The tank doing so well couldn't be attributed to lower pH, or rather it would be highly unlikely that pH below 8.0 was singularly the beneficial factor.

I think Ocean diver has it right though, elbow grease and time.

Thanks for the ideas :biggrin:Hey! I said that too! :p

You're welcome, good luck!

[freezetyle]

to add to the list of opinions here:
Vinegar dosing along with feeding your fish once every two-three days, scrubbing it with a tooth brush, then siphoning out.

With rocks they you can take out, you can scrub them with a tooth brush and then pour a diluted solution of hydrogen peroxide over the HA (there is a large thread on Reef central about that), just keep up on the gap/carbon changes.

[Reef Pilot]

Had some show up this past summer when I let my tank lapse a bit and my N03 and P04 jumped up. I got my bio pellet reactor revved up again and GFO later, and that stopped it. I still had to scrub rocks with a tooth brush just before each water change, but it loosened its hold and came off more easily after the nutrients came down again.

It does take some patience though, and even today, there are still a few stubborn tuffs I find here and there, and I have to apply the toothbrush. The good news is it can be beaten back once the nutrients are back down (N03 and P04 at zero).

[fishoholic]

I've had rabbit fish that pick at HA but they never really fully got rid of it all, definitely got rid of most of it but not all. Oddly though every naso tang I've ever had (I had 3 in total, including the one I still have) seems to love HA and has been good at getting rid of it and keeping it gone. Doesn't eliminate the source causing the HA of course but makes the tank free of it, or at least they have for me. I think the sea hare would work well for you in this case, just watch them around powerheads, I tried one and sure enough 2 days after getting him he got sucked onto the powerhead and died.

[Doug]

Christy read this about lime water and magnesium and strontium


I have been battling red turf since 2004 and still can't beat it and I think that I have figured it out. Since I have been using the kalk stirrer for so long. Its depleting my magnesium and strontium which I. Fact works along with CAL AND ALK as we all know. Over the course of time kalk strips the ions that mag is found in in kalk paste. This is the minerals that are found in the left over kalk paste. Any ways have a read it was in the advanced reef reading y Ron sheimek


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/chemistry

I remember Jayson always saying this out many years ago. Used the Seachem Reef Advantage which is suppose to raise strontium and magnesium besides calcium and Reef Builder for alk. Of course that was before the bulk two parts, but I still use Seachem.

Also if you remember I once said everytime I use kalk I had some problems with my corals. Of course many dont and its suppose to help your skimmer export nutrients.

I always liked adding Bens calcium and magnesium to my IO mix to keep my levels up. But of course thats no longer an option to.

Oh and I still have your red turf and dont use kalk. :lol:

[Doug]

to add to the list of opinions here:
Vinegar dosing along with feeding your fish once every two-three days, scrubbing it with a tooth brush, then siphoning out.

With rocks they you can take out, you can scrub them with a tooth brush and then pour a diluted solution of hydrogen peroxide over the HA (there is a large thread on Reef central about that), just keep up on the gap/carbon changes.

As many have said, thats all that worked for me. Good ole toothbrush and water changes.

If I fed my fish every third day, they would stage a revolt

[christyf5]

As many have said, thats all that worked for me. Good ole toothbrush and water changes.

If I fed my fish every third day, they would stage a revolt

OMG if I fed my fish every third day they'd all have bite marks on each other. That won't be happening. I can turn a blind eye enough to the HA to have happy fish. Who needs pretty corals anyways.

Hmm, what to cover in this.

Filter sock, check. I've been using them for about 5 years now, mostly to keep the microbubbles from returning to the tank but also to be clearing the water (for whatever little bit that does, its still a snowglobe in the tank sometimes).

GFO, yeah I know most of the nutrients are tied up in the algae and manual removal is best but ya know, we're always looking for that silver bullet that will make things easier. Changing out GFO more often might help, currently I'm only changing it every 4 weeks or so because I have to use so much for my tank (I still think the BRS directions are effed up but whatever) and I go through it like crazy it seems.

The pH meter only crapped out about 2 months ago. I haven't bought anything new for the tank in well over 6 months and haven't changed anything in my routine for the most part. But as everyone knows in this hobby, that often has nothing to do with it.

Nutrients I suspect came from "overdosing" or at least carelessly dosing Foz Down. I'm sure its a great product and it was working really well for me to reduce phosphate but at some point the phosphates were holding steady and I broke my routine of measure PO4 first, then add product. I added product for about 3 days before I realized my skimmer wasn't functioning properly to export the Foz Down in whatever form it takes when it binds the phosphate. It was then that I started seeing problems. I lost a few corals and didn't get on waterchanges quick enough. About 2 weeks after that I saw my first tuft of hair algae and large cyano patches (I've had small bits of cyano for far too long). Yarded it out and got on the waterchanges. I did about 160 gallons over 4 days or so and life got busy (and I was getting depressed over losing some of my oldest and most prized corals). By the time I looked at the tank again it was green fields everywhere and rampant STN. I've been handpicking a lot of the HA lately, I think I'm getting a handle on it but there are a lot of patches in the back forty that I just can't reach and taking rocks out is absolutely out of the question. I just don't have the time to be painstakingly scrubbing rocks with a toothbrush not to mention the re-aquascaping nightmare with corals all over the rocks (and just aquascaping in general, which can make itself a 6 hour process with Murphy working his magic).


Anyways, thanks for all the ideas and information! You guys are awesome :mrgreen:

[Doug]

I would not panic over the crapped ph meter Christy. I have mine on my RK2 but never read it. I dont think Brad even owns one. Cant see it having any effect one way or the other on hair algae.

Still think just following normal routine, scrubbing out the long stuff as best one can and when time permits. And perhaps the seahare idea. {is that whats its called}.

With my own version of the Asmodeus Red Turf Plague,,:lol: is seems to be a never ending battle keeping up with it. No matter how much water changes or GFO or whatever. I also had serious bubble algae, {wont say where from, :lol:}. Besides regular cleaning of both........the best solution seems for me to be the critters to control it, whatever the problem is.

Added a whack of snails from JL and a pin cushion urchin and the seem to be working on the red turf. Two monster looking and one smaller emerald crabs are doing a great job on the bubble algae.

[christyf5]

I would not panic over the crapped ph meter Christy. I have mine on my RK2 but never read it. I dont think Brad even owns one. Cant see it having any effect one way or the other on hair algae.

Still think just following normal routine, scrubbing out the long stuff as best one can and when time permits. And perhaps the seahare idea. {is that whats its called}.

With my own version of the Asmodeus Red Turf Plague,,:lol: is seems to be a never ending battle keeping up with it. No matter how much water changes or GFO or whatever. I also had serious bubble algae, {wont say where from, :lol:}. Besides regular cleaning of both........the best solution seems for me to be the critters to control it, whatever the problem is.

Added a whack of snails from JL and a pin cushion urchin and the seem to be working on the red turf. Two monster looking and one smaller emerald crabs are doing a great job on the bubble algae.

Yeah, I'm not overly worried about the pH probe. I had one in my cart at the J&L boxing day sale but removed it and opted for something else. I do think more snails and a couple emerald crabs would be handy (I have bubble algae too :neutral:) but the selection around here is so freaking limited its really sad, I thought the winter was prime time for shipments. I didn't even have much luck at the stores in Victoria a few weeks ago although I did manage to find some astreas and a tuxedo urchin. No turbo snails though, I haven't seen those in a very long time and I suspect they would do a better job on some of the algaes.

[somewherebeyondthesea]

I battled HA for a few months along with Cyano bacteria when i set up my 12 gallon fluval, and all i did was:

1.) remove any natural lighting (ie. sunlight next to windows)

2.) reduced my LED tank lighting by 2 hours.

3.) tossed in an emerald crab* (I pluck some of the taller stuff too right before i do a water change)

4.) weekly water changes with RO/DI ultraviolet polished (Type 1) water.

I'm currently working on my dad's 300G tank as his was overrun by HA and so far just using steps 1 and 2 we've had a significant difference.

*one thing to note is that HA in large amounts is considered toxic to your inverts, at least that's what I have researched, so hitting it with large amounts of "borrowed inverts" may help as well fyi. :biggrin:

[Myka]

Just for clarity, I was asking about pH in relation to what sounded like dinoflagellates from Christy's first post. Christy says they aren't dinos. No, proper range of marine pH won't affect hair algae.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

As others have suggested, a sea hare is very good for eating up hair algae. While the sea hare is dealing with the symptom, hopefully you've figured out the root cause of the outbreak and deal with that. It may be as simple as outdated bulbs or bulbs with wrong wavelength.

[Delphinus]

I found that Foz-Down didn't really do a lot for my tank. PO4 would bounce back up within a day. I keep some onhand in case my 65g (which is FOWLR) needs it but I stick to hc-gfo in the reef. It sucks because it's expensive, but it's the only thing that seems to keep it at bay. I change out a cup every week or two. You should be able to get by with less though.

I like having a rabbitfish in the tank because the presence of competition for greens seem to encourage my tangs to eat algae. Without the rabbit in the tank they turn a blind eye to most of it. Personally I like Siganus doliatus because they stay smaller but probably any rabbitfish will do.

Good luck!

Another option instead of a seahare is an abalone. However, they're probably harder to source, not quite as effective as a seahare, and can take a while to acclimate to a tank (last few literally sat in one spot for weeks before waking up). But they're really cool creatures and unlike seahares can adapt to other foods so tend not to starve out once all the HA is gone..