Success with LED and SPS

[Douglas]

I'd like to see pictures, and any posts, of tanks with success with LED lighting. I've made the switch, from MH/T5's to LED, and it's been a couple months, and things are not as nice as i hoped for. My LPS and softies are liking it, but my poor SPS.... Not so nice. (Opening Can of Worms). Would just like to see sucessful applications with LED and SPS. Just to know my investment was worth it.

[fragbox.ca]

what kind of Leds?

made the switch about 3 years ago and could not be happier
I can send you a video of sps growth if you like that I have been making
I fragged my red digi and take a photo of it everyday for the last ~30 days and string them together into a video
http://fragbox.ca/my-aquarium/

[Douglas]

I'm using a 4 foot F series Sunbrite. On my 72 gal/18x18x48 mixed reef. I like the clean look of one fixture.

[wayner]

GHL Mitras looks like it has promise, follow the thread below, I think he's had it the longest - but I'm like you, I don't want 2 or 3 modules hanging over the tank attached to some make shift hanger.

I like the one fixture look, clean , like the vertex or sunbrite.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2097957&page=8

[fragbox.ca]

what do you mean sps not liking it?
bleached?
not as vibrant? less growth?

[Douglas]

Not as vibrant, less growth, less polyp extentions, some browning. I did have a bit of a water quality issue. (traces of phosphates) which i have hopefull figured out. But what i've seen so far the sps did like the MH/T5's better. Time will tell. Patience is the key, i guess.

[fragbox.ca]

dam
really not happy!
that happened with me when I was using AI Sol
everything browned out and I lost alot of sps
sounds like they are not getting enough light. You have the lights turned down?

[Douglas]

This light has the ability to increase up and dim down, over the course of the day. I have it maxing out, at about 90% right now. And I have also illiminated the red and green colors from the light. I have found that those colors cause excessive algea blooms, and don't really look very nice, to me. It's heart wrenching to see full colonies, that have taken me more than year or more to grow, turn brown, just because i wanted to keep up with the trends, or save a few bucks on power and bulb replacement.

[Aquattro]

I posted a few pics of my SPS in this thread

http://96.31.76.198/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=773005#post773005

While I lost a little "pop" in my colors, on a very few pieces, overall I'd say LEDs can successfully grow SPS. My growth has not slowed, polyps are the same, colors are mostly the same. This is with 6 x AI Sol blues. Either your light doesn't have enough power/intensity, or the water quality issues you mentioned are affecting the corals.

GOOD LEDs are perfectly good for growing SPS :)

[kien]

Maybe you are blaming the wrong thing? You mentioned a phosphate issue. Raised phosphates can inhibit growth, cause browning and kill SPS. In some species it can happen fast especially if they are used to cleaner water. By the time you realized you had elevated phosphates it may have been there for a while? Fixing that problem won't turn your SPS around over night. It could take weeks if not months for SPS to recover.

[daplatapus]

My $0.02 is I just don't think we fully understand light spectrum demands for many coral species. Or if they are understood (they certainly aren't by me yet, lol), are minimized by thinking corals will grow fine under NW/RB combinations. Many older or cheaper fixtures are only putting out specific wave lengths and are missing some of the wave lengths you get out off natural sunlight or MH/T5 combo's. The production process of LED's is that each LED is made to produce a fairly narrow window of spectrum unlike MH's that give off the full spectrum from UV all the way to 20,000K. Thus the MH's are giving corals everything they need, whereas with a LED that is poorly mixed in colour, would only give the coral part of what it needs and may lose colour, growth etc. It would appear, from my research anyway, that the best results are coming from fixtures with a really good blend of colours. For example:

420nm Actinic blue/violet
430nm bluer actinic blue/violet
445 Blue
455 Royal Blue
6500K Blueish white
10000K Even blue white
20000K super blue white

Some even advocate that wave lengths down to 395nm are beneficial but to an unknown degree. Thus the leaps and bounds we're seeing in LED fixtures as technology and research are yielding either undesirable results, such as poor growth and coloration, or good growth. There are some out there.

No idea if I'm right or wrong, just my opinion I'm starting to develop after looking into DIY'ing my LED fixtures....

[kien]

Here is a Canreef TOTM that is currently running inexpensive eBay LED lights.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/photo-18.jpg

It's Dez's tank. I believe he's been running LEDs for a bit over a year now? I'm sure he would chime in but he's busy playing on the beach in California.

[sphelps]

I thought Dez used Sols?

[Aquattro]

I thought Dez used Sols?

Last time I talked to him, yes, he was running 3 units

[kien]

Last time I talked to him, yes, he was running 3 units

ah, I guess I missed his change over from the eBay LEDs he was running. Still, his tank has had LEDs over it for a while now.

[Ryan-b]

They definitely grow corals here are a couple shots of my tank on a diy led fixture

Mar 2012

http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s484/haedith/March001.jpg
July
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s484/haedith/Fish002_edited-1.jpg


November
http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s484/haedith/003_edited-1-2.jpg

The growth has been good, I will be switching over to mh/t5 just after Christmas. I feel like I'm lacking some color that the Diy leds aren't able to provide.

[lockrookie]

You guys are making me nervous about building my led fixture.


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

[Aquattro]

You guys are making me nervous about building my led fixture.


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

As long as you have enough emitters, you should be fine. I'm still convinced that LED is still a ways out from replacing MH in coloring SPS, but it's certainly a close second with many other positives. I miss my MH, but I wouldn't go back because of all the other features. I wouldn't hesitate building a fixture, but do model it after a successful unit.

[kien]

You guys are making me nervous about building my led fixture.


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

are you afraid of your tank looking totally awesome like the tanks we posted pictures of? :lol:

[Reefgoat]

The coral in the pictures look fairly healthy but to me the colours look less than awesome. Every time I read a thread on LEDs and SPS there are always people who say that their colours are inferior but the benefits of LEDs outweigh the negatives. If I was keeping an SPS tank I think that vibrant colour would be one of the top priorities.

That being said it may simply be that the pictures are not representative of the actual colours.

[Aquattro]

The coral in the pictures look fairly healthy but to me the colours look less than awesome. Every time I read a thread on LEDs and SPS there are always people who say that their colours are inferior but the benefits of LEDs outweigh the negatives. If I was keeping an SPS tank I think that vibrant colour would be one of the top priorities.

That being said it may simply be that the pictures are not representative of the actual colours.

The pics I linked in the other thread are close, but are nicer in person. But yes, I did lose some "pop" going to LED. But...I spend less on power and bulbs. I no longer have 5gallons/day evaporating into my livingroom, rotting my house. I don't have to run the chiller 10 hours a day. MH do not ramp up and down like LED, which is a really nice feature. Yes, colors are slightly better under MH, but I'm mostly ok sacrificing a bit of color for all the other pluses. It's a trade-off you need to justify as an individual based on your priorities.

[molotov]

I'm running 4 AI Sol blues over my 5' tank. I would say it's lacking some colour. I'm considering adding some supplemental red/green to see if I can get more pop. You may want to consider adding additional reds and greens. I haven't yet researched it yet but maybe stunner strips have something where you can add reds/greens?

[Aquattro]

I'm running 4 AI Sol blues over my 5' tank. I would say it's lacking some colour. I'm considering adding some supplemental red/green to see if I can get more pop. You may want to consider adding additional reds and greens. I haven't yet researched it yet but maybe stunner strips have something where you can add reds/greens?

I'm at a point where I'm content, so no more mucking around with it. Just keep the corals watered and watch them grow :)

[mrhasan]

I believe LEDs have endless options starting from RB+NW ranging to full spectrum, not to mention the cool controls that one can have on LEDs which is not technologically possible with MH or T5s. I have seen people complaining colors in the typical RB+NW mixture since they generally wash away the yellow, orange, red, etc. But with full spectrum, you get killing colors. LEDs are all about proper ratio and spectrum. One wrong placement/ratio and the output gets funky.

[Ram3500]

I love my MH if you pull up a recliner next to the tank with the sound of the wavemaker in the background. It kind of like lying on the beach in Maui :lol:

[daplatapus]

They definitely grow corals here are a couple shots of my tank on a diy led fixture


The growth has been good, I will be switching over to mh/t5 just after Christmas. I feel like I'm lacking some color that the Diy leds aren't able to provide.

What specific colours LED's have you got on your fixture? How many?

[Ryan-b]

I built it about a year ago with 72 3w Cree RB, 24 cw, and 24 high noons. It's a little late to add some of the new LEDs that have came out unless I want to redo it all.

[mrhasan]

I built it about a year ago with 72 3w Cree RB, 24 cw, and 24 high noons. It's a little late to add some of the new LEDs that have came out unless I want to redo it all.

CW flushes out a lot of green and blues. Red looks better but thats all for CW. That's why people started using nutral white (4500k-6000k). 2:1 RB:NW gives 14K look, something for which people moves to MH I guess.

For full spectrum, it should be 5:2:2:1 RB:NW:TV:RGB for full spectrum. True violet (405nm) actually pops up a lot of colors that RB:NW cannot and it triggers a specific region of photosynthesis too. UV (390nm) on the other hand, is actually bad, possibly because the wavelength gets shorter in water from the source.

[Madreefer]

CW flushes out a lot of green and blues. Red looks better but thats all for CW. That's why people started using nutral white (4500k-6000k). 2:1 RB:NW gives 14K look, something for which people moves to MH I guess.

For full spectrum, it should be 5:2:2:1 RB:NW:TV:RGB for full spectrum. True violet (405nm) actually pops up a lot of colors that RB:NW cannot and it triggers a specific region of photosynthesis too. UV (390nm) on the other hand, is actually bad, possibly because the wavelength gets shorter in water from the source.

And this is coming from your experience with LEDs?

[mrhasan]

And this is coming from your experience with LEDs?

Nope. Researches from nano-reef led full spectrum thread :D

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDCRxwQj3t4

[Madreefer]

I'm running 4 AI Sol blues over my 5' tank. I would say it's lacking some colour. I'm considering adding some supplemental red/green to see if I can get more pop. You may want to consider adding additional reds and greens. I haven't yet researched it yet but maybe stunner strips have something where you can add reds/greens?

I've supplemented my AI Sols with 2 Ecoxotic RGB modules. When the reds are turned on it does not pop the reds at all. I find the rdes pop more when the blue is turned up more. I'm waiting for the new controllors for the said supplemental lights and will be adding 2 more for more options to play with.

[Tangled Knot]

I've been running a Vertex Illumina for over a year now. Also added UV modules a few months ago with little change. Greens, purples fluores more with the UV's but I don't think they're anywhere near the UV in a MH. My SPS growth and polyp extension is great but the color is just not as good as as MH, not bad but just not the same. Sorry people, MH has better color. Question is, Is it worth the heat, evap and bulbs? I'm sticking with LED for all these reasons. My theory is LED is lacking UV. You don’t get that sunburn feeling under LED like you do from MH. On another note keep your LED whites low. They can really screw things up.

Here is a picture of my tank, sorry for the crapy photo. Colors are better then this.


http://www.calgaryarea.com/aqua/reeftank.jpgHere

[Madreefer]

I agree with you. You cant get the same results as you can with MH. Theres just that one thing that seems to be missing in everyones tank. Could be color from one coral to the next, browning, bleaching etc. On another note when I played around with my MHs or T5s it never really affected my corals. In Sept I decided to turn my Sols intensity down from 100% to 80% it was a bad move. Brown corals and slow growth. I have since turned them back up and corals are now starting to color up and grow again. I do like LEDs and will not be switching back but man have they been a pain in the a$$

[mrhasan]

I've supplemented my AI Sols with 2 Ecoxotic RGB modules. When the reds are turned on it does not pop the reds at all. I find the rdes pop more when the blue is turned up more. I'm waiting for the new controllors for the said supplemental lights and will be adding 2 more for more options to play with.

You cannot make the same color pop with the same color supplement. The theory goes like this:

To pop something "black", you will need "white" background and vice-verse.

Let's look at the RGB spectrum:

http://www.novaprinting.ca/images/RGB.gif

Basic rule, you have to have the contrasting color to make coral color pop. If you look at the RGB intersections, the best pop for red will be when you put in cyan. SO you will have to mix the RGB strip accordingly to create cyan blend.

[Tangled Knot]

Sorry, my corals decide what color they're going to be. You can't color them the way you like and expect them to do well.

[mrhasan]

Sorry, my corals decide what color they're going to be. You can't color them the way you like and expect them to do well.

Yah I know that. I was just referring to Madreefer's post regarding the red for red pop.

[jtbadco]

I have the Sunbrite F Series as well and I have been working to fine tune my LED's since I got them.
They are an ok light. One of my reds has burnt out already. In the future I will only do custom builds. I have seen quite a few done locally and the colors are absolutely amazing.

I am slowly increasing the intensity on my LED's. You need to start the UV off really low and move it up very slowly.

I have several types of monti cap, digi, and pink birdsnest that are all doing very well. I am trying some milliporra and acropora too.

[daplatapus]

I think some of the problem when talking UV is there really is no standard. What's being used in LED's when they say UV isn't really UV, it's true violet or some form thereof. I've read of TV LED's ranging from 395nm to 410, 410-420, 420-whatever. But because these LED's are putting out only those wavelengths you have to have a mix of them all to really call it a FULL spectrum build. That's pricey. It's why you're not seeing it being done in commercially available products. Heck, I still haven't seen DIY builds doing all the spectrum, there's still arguments about which ones are even being used.
But with MH, just turn it on and you at least have some amounts of everything.
Even if a specific coral uses only .5% of a certain spectrum in the wild, that .5% is still going to affect it's coloration and growth to some extent if it's not provided. It may still be able to live and grow, but not as well. Until someone comes up with an LED or fixture that incorporates everything that a coral needs for a certain look an individual wants, you won't get the "pop", florescence etc. you're looking for. And it's going to take someone with the time, money and perseverance to try and try and try again to figure it out. That's how anything progresses.

[mike31154]

UV (390nm) on the other hand, is actually bad, possibly because the wavelength gets shorter in water from the source.

Would you be so kind as to give a quick summary as to why this is so, 390nm falling in the UVA spectrum? I don't wish to watch a 20 minute video about full spectrum just to find out about the bad UV. A quick search on the UV spectrum seems to indicate that anything above 400nm isn't really UV, but simply a violet. So what's so harmful to coral @ 390nm? Thanx!

[mrhasan]

Would you be so kind as to give a quick summary as to why this is so, 390nm falling in the UVA spectrum? I don't wish to watch a 20 minute video about full spectrum just to find out about the bad UV. A quick search on the UV spectrum seems to indicate that anything above 400nm isn't really UV, but simply a violet. So what's so harmful to coral @ 390nm? Thanx!

Sure I will try my best to explain it :)

So here's the photosynthesis wavelength figure:

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s522/mrhasan1/spectru_zpsfb3247be.png

The main purpose of full spectrum is to hit the spikes in the graph. So as you can see, the two spikes occurs at 410nm and 428nm.

Now from sun, 390nm hits the water but since ocean have much more depth and much more volume of water, 390nm doesn't actually get in water since the wavelength increases when UV gets into water. Possibly the corals get something 410nm to 428nm (will have to do calculations but I don't know the formulas; forgot optics a long time ago :P) On the other hand, our tank is not that deep, its more clear and so on. Hence using actual UV a.k.a 390nm would actually give more or less that wavelength to the corals and according to claims (I am not sure though), they can be damaging to the coral. Hence, for example, LGB suggests using 405nm which, I am guessing, will get inside out tank at that wavelengths. Anything above 400nm will look purple but will also be very dim since our eyes cannot catch those wavelengths properly.

That's my understanding. I am not saying is 100% right since its more like learning from others and compiling my own logic to support them. :D

[Madreefer]

Wow Hasan you sure turned in to an expert from a guy that was posting every low dollar light you could find on Ebay and stating "how frickin awesome" they are. When you finally decide on one of your awesome lights and actually have some experience running them than maybe i'll pay attention to what you read on the net. Until such time i'll just listen to those who actually have used LEDs.

[ScubaSteve]

You cannot make the same color pop with the same color supplement. The theory goes like this:

To pop something "black", you will need "white" background and vice-verse.

Let's look at the RGB spectrum:

Basic rule, you have to have the contrasting color to make coral color pop. If you look at the RGB intersections, the best pop for red will be when you put in cyan. SO you will have to mix the RGB strip accordingly to create cyan blend.

Errr... That's not necessarily true. When you see a red shirt, for example, you are seeing red because the shirt is reflecting primarily red wavelengths while absorbing most of the other wavelengths. So, if you were to shine a light on that shirt that was missing red in the spectrum, the shirt would basically look black/brown. No amount of cyan is gonna make that shirt look red. And this is where a lot of misconception comes into the whole LED schmozzle...

Corals have two different types of proteins that give rise to colors: chromophores and fluorescent proteins. Chromophores behave like the red shirt in the example above: they absorb certain wavelengths while reflecting others. You can accentuate these colours by hitting them with the colour that they are. Purple is a prime example of a colour coming from a chromophore. Often you see chromophores in growth tips of SPS there the tip is a different colour than the rest of the coral. Chromophores are Antioxidants and act like sunscreen for the relatively new flesh of the coral, which matures over time to contain more...

Fluorescent proteins. There are three main types of fluorescent protein: green (GFP), cyan (CFP) and red (rFP). These proteins behave different than the chromophores because rather than reflecting a particular wavelength, the emit a particular wavelength after being excited by a more energetic wavelength. So, for a red coral (whose colour comes from rFP and not from a chromophore), red light does dick all to enhance the red coloration. But, as you notice, when you hit that coral with a higher wavelength, like in the cyan region, the coral goes all psychedelic on you because the rFP is fluorescing (which is what gives corals that "pop"). This is why TV, RB and cyan bring back a lot of the "pop" that goes "missing" when people swap to LEDs.

Even within the GFP, CFP and rFP clades (ie. similar proteins), there are a number of proteins which all have different absorption and emission peaks. This means, for example, each rFP has a different peak excitation wavelength and different emission wavelength. Metal halides are a continuum of wavelengths, so we get that spread that covers all of the different excitation peaks and we see a balance of coral colors (though you may also notice a lot of people with halides still use T5 or LED lighting to supplement the MH and bring out other colors the MH miss).

LEDs, on the other hand, have more discrete emission peaks which, if you only use one or two types of LEDs, leaves big gaps in the combined spectrum. This in turn leads to certain colors, be it a chromophore or fluorescent protein, not being rendered. Yes, by moving towards a full spectrum you start to fill in those holes, but you still don't have the same spread that a MH does, so some corals look WOW! And some look BLAH!.

Then there is also perceived colour temperature. With just CW or NW, the tank has a yellow hew. By adding RB the tank looks more like the 14K halides we are used to but still has a bit of a sterile feel to it. By adding reds into the mix you start to add a bit of warmth into the colour (and really it doesn't take much red to do this). The addition of red doesn't actually positively effect the colour of many corals (rFP isnt excited by it and there are few orange to red chromophores). It's the mix of colours that effects more how your rocks and sand look to you, which actually plays a big part in how the tank looks to you. For example, if you used all TV and RB, everything would fluoresce like mad but to you the tank looks like blue soup because your rocks and sand look blue. But if we kept the same coloration in the coral but change the sand to white, the tank has a totally different feel to it (and would look awesome).

So, to really have a good full spectrum LED set up (or any lighting set up for that matter) you need to understand where the colour of your corals are originating from and pick your light source to accentuate the different colors of your corals. The colors of our corals originate from different processes, so we have to take this into account with the design. And there are also the colors that we need to see to balance everything out.

This isn't even getting into the whole photosynthesis argument. I'm not going to touch that one but I'll just leave it with: find a colour mix that works for you and get lots of LEDs:razz:

I've supplemented my AI Sols with 2 Ecoxotic RGB modules. When the reds are turned on it does not pop the reds at all. I find the rdes pop more when the blue is turned up more. I'm waiting for the new controllors for the said supplemental lights and will be adding 2 more for more options to play with.

See above.

I think some of the problem when talking UV is there really is no standard. What's being used in LED's when they say UV isn't really UV, it's true violet or some form thereof. I've read of TV LED's ranging from 395nm to 410, 410-420, 420-whatever. But because these LED's are putting out only those wavelengths you have to have a mix of them all to really call it a FULL spectrum build. That's pricey. It's why you're not seeing it being done in commercially available products. Heck, I still haven't seen DIY builds doing all the spectrum, there's still arguments about which ones are even being used.
But with MH, just turn it on and you at least have some amounts of everything.
Even if a specific coral uses only .5% of a certain spectrum in the wild, that .5% is still going to affect it's coloration and growth to some extent if it's not provided. It may still be able to live and grow, but not as well. Until someone comes up with an LED or fixture that incorporates everything that a coral needs for a certain look an individual wants, you won't get the "pop", florescence etc. you're looking for. And it's going to take someone with the time, money and perseverance to try and try and try again to figure it out. That's how anything progresses.

You don't need to have an LED for every chunk of the spectrum to do a proper full spectrum (in fact look at the spectrum of some halides and you'll see that they can totally drop out at some wavelengths and are super heavy in other areas). And because LEDs do have a distribution in wavelengths (some tighter than others), some of the tails over lap and add up. Also, you don't really need to cover all the spectrum in the UV/violet/blue range since much of these wavelength contribute to fluorescing colors while being mostly invisible to our eyes. So long as you have some wavelengths shorter than the RB, you're pretty covered as the photons less than 450 nm are energetic enough to make most colors fluoresce.

So, you can build a fairly nice, continuous spectrum with a limited number of LEDs. We certainly need more than the RB/white mixes of old but we don't need to go overboard either.

[mrhasan]

Wow Hasan you sure turned in to an expert from a guy that was posting every low dollar light you could find on Ebay and stating "how frickin awesome" they are. When you finally decide on one of your awesome lights and actually have some experience running them than maybe i'll pay attention to what you read on the net. Until such time i'll just listen to those who actually have used LEDs.

Haha. Can't say anything against that :P

I did some research on full spectrum and just wants to make sure that I don't do anything wrong. Possibly I will start a build process once I accumulate everything :D

[mrhasan]

Awesome infos :D Thank you so much :D Learnt lots of new stuffs :)

Errr... That's not necessarily true. When you see a red shirt, for example, you are seeing red because the shirt is reflecting primarily red wavelengths while absorbing most of the other wavelengths. So, if you were to shine a light on that shirt that was missing red in the spectrum, the shirt would basically look black/brown. No amount of cyan is gonna make that shirt look red. And this is where a lot of misconception comes into the whole LED schmozzle...

Corals have two different types of proteins that give rise to colors: chromophores and fluorescent proteins. Chromophores behave like the red shirt in the example above: they absorb certain wavelengths while reflecting others. You can accentuate these colours by hitting them with the colour that they are. Purple is a prime example of a colour coming from a chromophore. Often you see chromophores in growth tips of SPS there the tip is a different colour than the rest of the coral. Chromophores are Antioxidants and act like sunscreen for the relatively new flesh of the coral, which matures over time to contain more...

Fluorescent proteins. There are three main types of fluorescent protein: green (GFP), cyan (CFP) and red (rFP). These proteins behave different than the chromophores because rather than reflecting a particular wavelength, the emit a particular wavelength after being excited by a more energetic wavelength. So, for a red coral (whose colour comes from rFP and not from a chromophore), red light does dick all to enhance the red coloration. But, as you notice, when you hit that coral with a higher wavelength, like in the cyan region, the coral goes all psychedelic on you because the rFP is fluorescing (which is what gives corals that "pop"). This is why TV, RB and cyan bring back a lot of the "pop" that goes "missing" when people swap to LEDs.

Even within the GFP, CFP and rFP clades (ie. similar proteins), there are a number of proteins which all have different absorption and emission peaks. This means, for example, each rFP has a different peak excitation wavelength and different emission wavelength. Metal halides are a continuum of wavelengths, so we get that spread that covers all of the different excitation peaks and we see a balance of coral colors (though you may also notice a lot of people with halides still use T5 or LED lighting to supplement the MH and bring out other colors the MH miss).

LEDs, on the other hand, have more discrete emission peaks which, if you only use one or two types of LEDs, leaves big gaps in the combined spectrum. This in turn leads to certain colors, be it a chromophore or fluorescent protein, not being rendered. Yes, by moving towards a full spectrum you start to fill in those holes, but you still don't have the same spread that a MH does, so some corals look WOW! And some look BLAH!.

Then there is also perceived colour temperature. With just CW or NW, the tank has a yellow hew. By adding RB the tank looks more like the 14K halides we are used to but still has a bit of a sterile feel to it. By adding reds into the mix you start to add a bit of warmth into the colour (and really it doesn't take much red to do this). The addition of red doesn't actually positively effect the colour of many corals (rFP isnt excited by it and there are few orange to red chromophores). It's the mix of colours that effects more how your rocks and sand look to you, which actually plays a big part in how the tank looks to you. For example, if you used all TV and RB, everything would fluoresce like mad but to you the tank looks like blue soup because your rocks and sand look blue. But if we kept the same coloration in the coral but change the sand to white, the tank has a totally different feel to it (and would look awesome).

So, to really have a good full spectrum LED set up (or any lighting set up for that matter) you need to understand where the colour of your corals are originating from and pick your light source to accentuate the different colors of your corals. The colors of our corals originate from different processes, so we have to take this into account with the design. And there are also the colors that we need to see to balance everything out.

This isn't even getting into the whole photosynthesis argument. I'm not going to touch that one but I'll just leave it with: find a colour mix that works for you and get lots of LEDs:razz:



See above.



You don't need to have an LED for every chunk of the spectrum to do a proper full spectrum (in fact look at the spectrum of some halides and you'll see that they can totally drop out at some wavelengths and are super heavy in other areas). And because LEDs do have a distribution in wavelengths (some tighter than others), some of the tails over lap and add up. Also, you don't really need to cover all the spectrum in the UV/violet/blue range since much of these wavelength contribute to fluorescing colors while being mostly invisible to our eyes. So long as you have some wavelengths shorter than the RB, you're pretty covered as the photons less than 450 nm are energetic enough to make most colors fluoresce.

So, you can build a fairly nice, continuous spectrum with a limited number of LEDs. We certainly need more than the RB/white mixes of old but we don't need to go overboard either.

[daplatapus]

Nice info, scubasteve. Not sure I understood all of it yet, lol, but certainly made some good points and provided food for thought.

[Madreefer]

Nice info, scubasteve. Not sure I understood all of it yet, lol, but certainly made some good points and provided food for thought.

Yea thanks Scubasteve

[ScubaSteve]

Nice info, scubasteve. Not sure I understood all of it yet, lol, but certainly made some good points and provided food for thought.

:razz: I tried to make it as non-sciency as I could so I might have either still made it too techy or missed out some important concepts. So, if you need a clarification on anything, ask away.

[kien]

The question of UV is an interesting one. I know that for DE Halide bulbs you HAVE to use them with UV shielded glass. Well, at least I have never come across a DE halide bulb that did not require a UV shield. Also, the outer glass envelope of the mogul halide lamps are UV shielded.

[mike31154]

I did a little more digging re the UV issue & found this article. They've carried out some measurements on various bulb types, technologies, their UV output & how much UV-A in particular actually makes it through some of the so called glass shields that envelop lamps. UV-B & -C are downright nasty & can really hurt you as well as most any living thing.

http://www.aquarium-design.com/reef/uvlighting.html

[Madreefer]

So next question. Are the lenses on LEDs equipped with "uv LEDs" have the proper lenses? Same question goes out to the DIY guys. Local guy here in town decided to take the glass out of a fixture to try to get a little more use out of the MH bulbs. Bad idea. All corals fried. So with uv LEDs and not having the proper glass/lens will it be the same result? I would think so

[ScubaSteve]

So next question. Are the lenses on LEDs equipped with "uv LEDs" have the proper lenses? Same question goes out to the DIY guys. Local guy here in town decided to take the glass out of a fixture to try to get a little more use out of the MH bulbs. Bad idea. All corals fried. So with uv LEDs and not having the proper glass/lens will it be the same result? I would think so

In LED fixtures, "UV LEDs" aren't actually UV, and if they are , they're just in the UV zone. I am using UV LEDs in my PhD work, so I can tell you with confidence that a "UV LED" and a real UV LED are two VERY different beasts. Most of the LEDs used in fixtures aren't at a wavelength to be considered harmful. Also, an unshielded halide bulb puts out MUCH more UV than a few little LEDs. But with enough low power true UV LEDs,you can cause yourself some trouble.

But to answer your question, there is no point in putting a shielding lens on a true UV LED if you are trying to use it as such. LEDs put out fairly narrow spectra, so blocking the UV with a lens really is just blocking all the light.

What we are actually wanting out of all of this is the deep violet which gives a blacklight effect. Going deeper into the UV wavelength actually does not yield more fluorescence, so there really is no point.

[Madreefer]

Well thanks. Very informative. What are you running for lights on your tank? Sorry too lazy to search your posts. And if you dont mind, what are are your percentages of intensity?

[ScubaSteve]

Well thanks. Very informative. What are you running for lights on your tank? Sorry too lazy to search your posts. And if you dont mind, what are are your percentages of intensity?

I am still running MH on my main tank (250W MH + 4xT5, 100% intensity :razz:) but I am currently wrapping up an LED conversion for my biocube 14 (Full spectrum, 24 LEDs, Cree XT-E's) as an experiment. I'm going to play with the LEDs in the little tank until I figure out what works best and what I like. Once I've got the full spectrum thing figured out I'll probably build an LED fixture for my main tank. I do love my MH though.

At work I am currently building a UV LED reactor as a side project (using the first TRUE high power UV LEDs in the world... sounds kinda weird when I say it out loud, but it's true:redface:). For my main research, I use T5s and MHs as light sources to split water into hydrogen and oxygen using only light and semiconductor nanoparticles... soooooo, I kinda spend a lot of time talking about light, UV, LEDs/semiconductor, MH and T5s everyday :razz: Kinda nice to be able to talk about it in a non-work context.:biggrin:

[lockrookie]

My concern is I don't get the color ratio right for my tank or not enough intensity that I will kill off my corals or royally fubar my tank. I love how Greg's build turned out for his 8 footer but I cannot afford modular LEDs regretfully


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

[daplatapus]

I have to admit, while I do think my build is a hair on the blue side, I love the colour it puts out with the NW, RB, TV and OCW. That's 6 colours. I will definitely be taking out a couple of the RB's and perhaps add more white in another spectrum than the NW. But having them all on differing channels has allowed me to see what effect they all have at least to my eye. I do have to raise it and see if maybe I can turn up the whites a bit without cooking anything.

[The Guy]

I posted a few pics of my SPS in this thread

http://96.31.76.198/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=773005#post773005

While I lost a little "pop" in my colors, on a very few pieces, overall I'd say LEDs can successfully grow SPS. My growth has not slowed, polyps are the same, colors are mostly the same. This is with 6 x AI Sol blues. Either your light doesn't have enough power/intensity, or the water quality issues you mentioned are affecting the corals.

GOOD LEDs are perfectly good for growing SPS :)
+1 to the AI sols, I have 2 modules on my 90 gallon and all my corals have never looked better, running them at 60% on all 3 colors white, blue & royal blue.

[ScubaSteve]

My concern is I don't get the color ratio right for my tank or not enough intensity that I will kill off my corals or royally fubar my tank. I love how Greg's build turned out for his 8 footer but I cannot afford modular LEDs regretfully


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

I wouldn't be too concerned with that. The more likely scenario would be accidentally starting the LEDs off at too high of an intensity and frying them (provided you have enough LEDs to start with). The colour mix is something that you can play with over time. If you drill and tap your heatsink you can easily swap LEDs around at your pleasure. The modular LEDs are really nice, but not necessary. And as long as you have enough of the base colours (RB/NW) which can drive photosynthesis, you're good.

[kien]

I did a little more digging re the UV issue & found this article. They've carried out some measurements on various bulb types, technologies, their UV output & how much UV-A in particular actually makes it through some of the so called glass shields that envelop lamps. UV-B & -C are downright nasty & can really hurt you as well as most any living thing.

http://www.aquarium-design.com/reef/uvlighting.html

That's an interesting article on UV! So in other words. 1. the uv shields on halide bulbs only block out some UV and by some I mean hardly any. 2. UV is harmful to corals.

[Dearth]

I am no expert and have only ever had LED lights I took this picture today of my tank i have had this setup for 5 months and the lights are only at 60% intensity so far I started at 20% and gone up from there. This was a kit from RapidLed and a friend built for me there are 6 blue, 4 white, 1 red and one moonlight.

Sorry my IPhone 4 doesn't do justice but with the exception of one coral all my coral are thriving under this set up with full bloom and great colour. Almost all came from a MH tank and within days were doing great and are all growing at a fast rate. I wouldn't go with any other lighting setup because I am very impressed with how well the coral are thriving under the LED lighting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/Dearth01/image-8_zps5ba1716f.jpg

[Dez]

ah, I guess I missed his change over from the eBay LEDs he was running. Still, his tank has had LEDs over it for a while now.

I am running 3 Sols with some DIYs. The Ebay fixtures were too loud for my liking even though my corals still grew. I've been on LEDs now for a year and 8 months and corals are still growing. Over the last year I've removed at least 15 colonies of sps (most had to be broken in order to fit in a 5 gal pail). So in a nutshell, yes, LEDs can grow sps just fine and the colours are still beautiful.

[kien]

So in a nutshell, yes, LEDs can grow sps just fine and the colours are still beautiful.

There you have it. No further discussion required. Mods, please close thread. :biggrin:

[ocean diver]

Dez; what are you running beside the SOL's as far as the DIY you speech of?

[Dez]

Dez; what are you running beside the SOL's as far as the DIY you speech of?

I'm running 24 RB 3 watt crees, and 24 CW 3 watt crees from rapidled.com.

I went from over 1100 watts of halides/T5s to under 400 watts of LEDs. So overall I'm quite happy.

But then again, I'm not that picky. As long as corals are growing and healthy, I'm happy. My tank is by no means drab in terms of colour.

[lastlight]

So in a nutshell, yes, LEDs can grow sps just fine and the colours are still beautiful.

Is still beautiful the same as equally beautiful in your experience?

[Douglas]

Thank you everyone for the opinions and advice. I'm going to stick with the LED's for now.

[Dez]

Is still beautiful the same as equally beautiful in your experience?

Different beautiful :). Mind you, I've tested my tank parameters once in the last year and a half. Calcium was at 280. My corals are still colourful and still growing. I have no idea what my phosphate or nitrates are at. I still have decent polyp extension, and decent colours. I really don't maintain my tank other than glass and water changes. When I did the change oner from MHs to LEDs, it was definitely different, but now I definitely like them. Like Brad says, the pros far outweigh the cons. I used to evaporate 5 gals a day. I have venting to the outside to take care of it, but all that is turned off now. I don't remember the last time I looked at the temperature of the tank cause that's not even a concern anymore. With halides, I used to look at the highs and lows cause of the temp. fluctuations. And not worrying about bulb changes? Who can argue that?

[Dez]

All these pictures were taken minutes ago with my iPhone 4 to give you an idea of colours (sorry not the greatest pics, just quick). All these colours are pretty accurate to life.

Got this as a 1" frag from Bignose. I mounted it on a golf tee and the golf tee is still in there somewhere. Half it's life has been under LEDs 14" below the water surface near the edge of the tank.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7122.jpg?t=1355528402

The orange cap is all LED growth from frag, the green one in center never changed from MH to LED.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7120.jpg?t=1355528374

This purple rimmed one on the right was never this purple under MH.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7118.jpg?t=1355528371

This green one was a 1/2" frag from Lobsterboy, it sat on the sandbed when I had halides, then went to LEDs and it took off. The cap is all LED growth.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7117.jpg?t=1355528356

Got this coral shortly before the switch to LED. It has maintained it's fluorescing brightness.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7114.jpg?t=1355528355

This isn't sps but it grew from a 1" frag. That alien eye whatever it is. I think it's a chalice? Don't know names of corals sorry. All LED and it's grown up the side of the glass.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7111.jpg?t=1355528331

This was a 1" frag from Snappy. Now it's slightly smaller than a volleyball. Half it's life under LED still as bright and growing like crazy.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7110.jpg?t=1355528332

This clam always has a white growth edge. Grows very well under LEDs.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7108.jpg?t=1355528314

This coral was from Snappy. Super grape mili. It sat for about a year under halides without much growth, it has done most of it's growing under LEDs.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7106.jpg?t=1355528288

This pink pocci has remained bright pink in my tank under LEDs. Also one thing to note is that when I had halides, I used to dose a lot of zeo stuff to tweak colours. I haven't dosed any of that stuff in 2 years.
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/des_sublime/IMG_7104.jpg?t=1355528286

[Douglas]

Now that's the stuff! Dez, you have made me a believer!

[Madreefer]

There you have it. No further discussion required. Mods, please close thread. :biggrin:

Hasn't been a more informative thread than this one in a long time. But yea good idea. But don't shut the Random Thought Thread down. It's really helpful to the hobby.

[mrhasan]

Hasn't been a more informative thread than this one in a long time. But yea good idea. But don't shut the Random Thought Thread down. It's really helpful to the hobby.

Yah learnt a lot. Hats off to ScubaSteve :D

[Madreefer]

True enough. Thanks again Scubasteve. But I'm being a smartass. I should start using smileys but too lazy. Would take the ignorance out of my texts. They're all taken the wrong way.

[Aquattro]

But don't shut the Random Thought Thread down. It's really helpful to the hobby.

We would never consider it, almost everyone loves that thread!

[Aquattro]

P.S. :razz:

can't forget the smiley!

[mrhasan]

I think we should also thank the creator of this thread (sorry don't know the technical term :P). Without his initiative, this thread wouldn't even be in existence! Hats off to Douglas! :D

[asylumdown]

My experience with LEDs:

+1 on LEDs being perfectly adequate for SPS. I just wish I could figure out how Dez manages to get his iPhone to take such good pictures of his, as my iPhone has a grand mal seizure every time it looks at my tank. The sensor practically explodes when it looks at the LEDs of my radions.

If I can sort that out, I'll have a whole bucket of photos for you (photo-bucket, get it? ;))

[Dez]

I've been an iPhonetogropher ever since the original iPhone came out ;). Experience my friend, experience...

[lockrookie]

I just can't pull the trigger on LEDs I think I'm going to try one more year of mh power consumption with a bigger light fixture/ more wattage on 180 but build a smaller fixture for my 50... Baby steps and see how I like it before I attempt the bigger fixture.


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

[chatyak]

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/images/external/9168463_5332271_142250799_Full_2/0_0_15931f34085802bb69a2ab6ad475f6e5_1



I know this one uses orpheks. Massive info on that build and the lights colors vs other leds etc..

[ScubaSteve]

I know this one uses orpheks. Massive info on that build and the lights colors vs other leds etc..

Is that Mr. Wilson's tank?

[chatyak]

Is that Mr. Wilson's tank?

Peters tank. Mr wilson is the hired keeper from what I know.

[lastlight]

He was brought on-board to rebuild it for Peter in Toronto.

I've heard the Orpheks that were used in this build differed from the ones available by default when you order them. Custom selection of LEDs or perhaps even the addition of LEDs not available in the standard fixture.

[Douglas]

Lossed another SPS colony, that had browned out when I made the switch to LED. It's not impressing me........:neutral:

[Aquattro]

Lossed another SPS colony, that had browned out when I made the switch to LED. It's not impressing me........:neutral:

I'd say it's probably not a direct result of switching to a new technology. Either the light wasn't good enough, or not acclimated properly. I switched to LED, ramped them up to what I thought was the right intensity and everything did great. No browning or dying, so if you're losing stuff, I'd look at all possible causes.

[Douglas]

Yes, there could have been other under lining issues. Needless to say, the LED light is still over my tank. But i cleaned up my Infinity, and gave it a hug. (it'll give me another good reason to see the Coral Master in the new year)

[Aquattro]

Here is what my tank looked like right after the switch. It looks the same today, only more coral..

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/FTS_SEP12b_zpsb6d31b58.jpg

[reefermadness]

Nice shot Brad... Gives me hope for LED one day. I mostly im scared of the transition as matching the light up perfect is near impossible when changing any lighting.

[Aquattro]

Nice shot Brad... Gives me hope for LED one day. I mostly im scared of the transition as matching the light up perfect is near impossible when changing any lighting.

Darryl, matching the color of the visible light is easy, I have it looking just like my Radiums. However, the corals don't believe it :)
Once technology figures out how to replicate the spectrum AND do away with the disco effect, I think LED will be a no brainer.
Mostly the colors are stable and 95% of what they were, except for a couple of pieces. One is due to spectrum, the other, intensity.
But, if I were to win the lottery and set up my dream tank, it would run MH for sure.

[lastlight]

But, if I were to win the lottery and set up my dream tank, it would run MH for sure.

As exiting president of LWL i'm in full agreement there too.

So how have you gotten your SOLs to look like your radiums? What did you add? Out of the box there's no way.

[kien]

AND do away with the disco effect, I think LED will be a no brainer.

I think they could do this today. Create a unit with an LED pod distribution like the GHL Mitras with each pod housing a tightly packed LED array like the Kessil.

replace LED pods here..

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/MITRAS_20121215_008_zps63714bcc.jpg

with this in each pod..

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_2348.jpg

That will be the killer LED light. Unfortunately it is probably cost prohibitive today :cry:

[Aquattro]

So how have you gotten your SOLs to look like your radiums? What did you add? Out of the box there's no way.

well, they don't physically look like mogul bulbs, but the visible color looks like the color I had with them. I guess it still has that missing piece, but very close. I love the color of the light, just wish the corals loved it as much.

[Aquattro]

I think they could do this today. Create a unit with an LED pod distribution like the GHL Mitras with each pod housing a tightly packed LED array like the Kessil.
That will be the killer LED light. Unfortunately it is probably cost prohibitive today :cry:

Agreed. I think that would be much closer. And very expensive :)

[lastlight]

well, they don't physically look like mogul bulbs, but the visible color looks like the color I had with them.

Oh I thought your issues was coral coloration and appearance of the light to your eyes. It's just the actual coral coloration.

To me the SOLs light output looks a bit flat compared to a Radium but everyone's eyes are different.

[Aquattro]

Oh I thought your issues was coral coloration and appearance of the light to your eyes. It's just the actual coral coloration.

To me the SOLs light output looks a bit flat compared to a Radium but everyone's eyes are different.

The flat look is perhaps the component missing. The color of the tank is almost identical, or my eyes have adjusted and told me it is.
But yes, it's just a bit of pop missing from the coral colors that really gets me. Not enough to toss the lights, but enough that I still miss my Radiums. I have one on my frag tank, so when I need my MH fix, I just go sit in front of that tank :)

[lastlight]

so when I need my MH fix, I just go sit in front of that tank :)

get that same feeling you do when warming your hands around a campfire.

[sphelps]

I think they could do this today. Create a unit with an LED pod distribution like the GHL Mitras with each pod housing a tightly packed LED array like the Kessil.

That will be the killer LED light. Unfortunately it is probably cost prohibitive today :cry:

While in theory that makes sense in reality it's not necessarily true. The kessil doesn't have the same amount of colors in the GHL so while you may think the kessil is better at color blending it's not really the same. While the pods in the GHL may look pretty basic apparently they were designed specifically for maximum color blending and efficiency.
Light distribution

A homogeneous illumination is as important as a high light performance. Our engineers determined the best possible arrangement of the LEDs and design of the reflectors through extensive computer simulations and practice tests. With the goal to achieve an optimized illumination the LEDs have been arranged in 2 x 3 evenly spread clusters and all LEDs in one cluster are placed with a minimal clearance to each other. Additionally the clusters had been brought to the edge of the lamp as near as possible. The results are convincing:

Ideal mixing of the single LED-colors, the light in the aquarium has no disturbing color spots
Uniform illumination over a wide area
Efficient heat dissipation over the heat sink
Also consider the spread, the kessil is pretty tight which probably aids in the blending, if you widen the optic to be more comparable to other fixtures you may lose what you've gained. The Kessil is just a multichip LED which may or may not be the way the industry will go, in the end you're still looking at different colored light sources, packing them closer together may not make a difference and only cost you more in efficiency. Cost wise multichips are available and realistically cheaper than multiple single LEDs in terms of watts/$.

[kien]

While in theory that makes sense in reality it's not necessarily true. The kessil doesn't have the same amount of colors in the GHL so while you may think the kessil is better at color blending it's not really the same. While the pods in the GHL may look pretty basic apparently they were designed specifically for maximum color blending and efficiency.


ya I wonder what a kessil would look like with more colours. That would be interesting for sure. Honestly I don't quite understand why there is a red channel ? Is it just to add that particular spectrum? I found (to my eyes) that the addition of the red and green channel made the light look worse and I had to turn them both OFF to make the light pleasing.

[sphelps]

ya I wonder what a kessil would look like with more colours. That would be interesting for sure. Honestly I don't quite understand why there is a red channel ? Is it just to add that particular spectrum? I found (to my eyes) that the addition of the red and green channel made the light look worse and I had to turn them both OFF to make the light pleasing.

I think you really need to spend more time with the LEDs on your hands. I know when I first experimented with them I hated everything about them. After playing around with them they grew on me very quickly. Red and green are key addition IMO and most others who have compared with and without will agree, you only need very little but I found it applies less demand on the white LEDs creating an RGB effect which prevents many colors from being washed out. LEDs are different from T5s and Halides, realistically they shouldn't be compared too closely. If you switched from all halides to all T5s or vise versa you would have much to say as well. That's why MH & T5 combinations exist and are so popular but personally I think the T5 and LED combination idea goes against the main goals from LEDs in the first place.

[chatyak]

I haven't read the entire thread - but do you have a PAR meter? Especially if the colors are in the blues on the LEDs... the amount of PAR given off by LED's is very strong on some models and under-rated on the blue colors- so much so that it burns corals. Perhaps the browning is this too?

LED's may looks dimmer to the human eye - but not a PAR meter. Thought I would give that input..

[Reefer Rob]

I found deep red really adds "depth" to the color of the tank. It makes the corals stand out from the rock, as well as enhancing some of the coral colors (not necessarily red, strangely).

I just added 4 more deep red for a total of 10 at 450mA 2 weeks ago and I really like the look... I think I'm done now. It remains to be seen if I get algae growth with that much red.

BTW with no optics I get no disco that I can tell.

[sphelps]

I haven't read the entire thread - but do you have a PAR meter? Especially if the colors are in the blues on the LEDs... the amount of PAR given off by LED's is very strong on some models and under-rated on the blue colors- so much so that it burns corals. Perhaps the browning is this too?

LED's may looks dimmer to the human eye - but not a PAR meter. Thought I would give that input..

It's a common misconception that a typical PAR meter can be used to accurately measure PAR of LED fixtures. But your are correct that LEDs appear dimmer than other types of lighting due to being a more focused beam and having a more narrow spectrum. However with more full spectrum LED fixtures you tend to get brighter (to the eye) results similar to other types of lighting.

Email from Apogee Instruments on Measuring LED with Quantum Sensor:

"In regards to measuring LEDs with our quantum sensor, there are some caveats to doing so. The following link shows the spectral response of our quantum sensor (http://www.apogeeins...alresponse.html). As the graph shows, Apogee quantum sensors underweight blue light, and as a result, photon flux measurements for blue LEDs will be too low. They also overweight red light up to a wavelength of approximately 650 nm, above which they do not measure, and as a result, photon flux measurement for red LEDs will either be too high (if the LED output is all below 650 nm) or too low (if a non-negligible fraction of the LED output is above 650 nm). Additionally, LEDs often have a very narrow spectral output, with a sharp peak of only a few nanometers. So, unless the quantum sensor has a perfectly flat spectral response, meaning it weights all wavelengths of light exactly the same, there will be errors. Electrically calibrated Apogee quantum sensors will likely provide a reasonable measurement for white LEDs because they are broadband, and because electrically calibrated quantum sensors are calibrated under CWF lamps. However, for narrowband LEDs, like red and blue, Apogee quantum sensors will not provide an accurate measurement.

As a less accurate method you can use the same spectral response graph as mentioned above to get a relative idea of the error. For example, a 450nm blue LED will have a relative response of approximately 0.8. Therefore, you can figure that the photon flux reading from the sensor is reading approximately 20% low. Just remember, this approach is only relative so give yourself a wide margin of potential error. A blue/white configuration should give you reasonable accuracy, particularly from the broadband spectrum of the white.

[chatyak]

It's a common misconception that a typical PAR meter can be used to accurately measure PAR of LED fixtures.

Yes, this is why I stated that it is under-rated, especially on the blue colors.:biggrin:

[sphelps]

Yes, this is why I stated that it is under-rated, especially on the blue colors.:biggrin:

Yes and no. A typical meter will present a lower number for blue only but this number will still be relatively high in comparison to other light sources that appear brighter. The narrow peaks from LEDs in general force higher PAR numbers from a meter while not representing how much of the spectrum range used for photosynthesis is actually being filled.

[chatyak]

If a PAR meter is used - it should also be put on electrical mode and not SUN I think... it will help a tiny bit - but overall it should be used as a gauge, even with the margin of error. Better than no meter I say.

[Reefer Rob]

I have an SPS PAR meter. Very special color changing indicators :mrgreen:

[sphelps]

I have an SPS PAR meter. Very special color changing indicators :mrgreen:

That's the only indicator I would accurately rely on :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

I have an SPS PAR meter. Very special color changing indicators :mrgreen:

Agreed :)