Separate skimmer container

[CherylMcKay]

How many have a desperate skimmer container? How do your drain it into you sump? Where is you ATO?

I am having a hard time balancing my return and drain... This in turn makes it really hard to balance my ATO as well. I am curious what is used to drain to your sump as well ( a pump or gravity).

I need some more ideas.

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[The Grizz]

I think maybe your issue is that your return is pumping out more then your drains can handle. Are the drains restricted in any way? ball or gate valve? You might need to restrict your return flow to get the balance. Your skimmer should never interfere with the balance.

[hillegom]

Read through this link, you will get many ideas

http://www.melevsreef.com/links.html

[CherylMcKay]

I think maybe your issue is that your return is pumping out more then your drains can handle. Are the drains restricted in any way? ball or gate valve? You might need to restrict your return flow to get the balance. Your skimmer should never interfere with the balance.

It is not the skimmer that is interfering, it is the drain between the skimmer container and the sump, I think is my bottle neck. I have gate valves in place OK n both the drain and return and I have to have everything just about shut off everything to balance the return and the drain.

I have a Sedra 7000 ( 700 gph) and 1" returns (960 gph) and 1" between the sump and skimmer container. I shouldn't have to turn them down as much as I seem to have to. I also seem to be always sitting right at the syphon break (small hole drilled into the drain), so it gets noisy.

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[The Grizz]

Having a hard time understanding what you are trying to tell me so heres are a few questions:

is your skimmer tied into your drain or is it pumped feed?
what is the size of your drains from the tank?
any pic to help better explain?

[Aquattro]

Sounds like two sumps? One for skimmer and one for, well, not skimmer?

[intarsiabox]

So you have (2) 1" drain lines going into a sump with just a skimmer in it and from there is a single 1" line that goes into another sump that houses your return pump? Is this correct?

[The Grizz]

1" returns should have at min 1 1/4" drains IMO.

[CherylMcKay]

Having a hard time understanding what you are trying to tell me so heres are a few questions:

is your skimmer tied into your drain or is it pumped feed?
what is the size of your drains from the tank?
any pic to help better explain?

The skimmer has it's own pumps and my DT drains into that container. The skimmer container is connected to the sump with a 1" line. The 2 and sump houses my refrigium and my return pump.

Sorry, I am trying not to babble, but I am frustrated and I definitely may be over thinking this.

I seem to be unable to have the water level in the return area to stay at an even level but the skimmer container level, is above the return line always.

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[CherylMcKay]

So you have (2) 1" drain lines going into a sump with just a skimmer in it and from there is a single 1" line that goes into another sump that houses your return pump? Is this correct?

Yes

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[The Grizz]

Can you change the 1" line going from sump to sump to a 1 1/2" to open it up some more & give the flow more breathing room? Maybe just add 1 or 2 more 1" lines. If there's is 2 - 1" lines going in there should be atleast 2 - 1" or bigger lines going out to return side.

[banditpowdercoat]

I have a herbie variant overflow. One fixed drain into sump, as well as the emergency overflow drain. The gate valve drain goes to a rubbermaid beside tank. Higher than sump. Skimmer is in this rubbermade and it drains via a Durso drain to the sump.

[Albertan22]

In regards to one of your original questions, my ATO goes into the return compartment of my sump. Evaporation will always show up in this compartment with the water level dropping there first. If you're pumping top-off water into that skimmer compartment which sounds like it's already restricted by a drain line limitation it could lead to problems raising the water level in that compartment and make it hard to keep your skimmer adjusted.

Is there any mechanism to control the water level in the skimmer compartment? Are you having trouble with this compartment flooding while your return pump goes dry?

[The Grizz]

Oh yes that too, ATO should only be pumped into the return pump section so I totally agree with the above advice from Albertan22

[CherylMcKay]

In regards to one of your original questions, my ATO goes into the return compartment of my sump. Evaporation will always show up in this compartment with the water level dropping there first. If you're pumping top-off water into that skimmer compartment which sounds like it's already restricted by a drain line limitation it could lead to problems raising the water level in that compartment and make it hard to keep your skimmer adjusted.

Is there any mechanism to control the water level in the skimmer compartment? Are you having trouble with this compartment flooding while your return pump goes dry?

I do have my ATO on the return, but because I can't quite get it balanced, my ATO is either going to much or it isn't going at all.

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[CherylMcKay]

Can you change the 1" line going from sump to sump to a 1 1/2" to open it up some more & give the flow more breathing room? Maybe just add 1 or 2 more 1" lines. If there's is 2 - 1" lines going in there should be atleast 2 - 1" or bigger lines going out to return side.

That was my plan but I wasn't sure if I should do that or put a pump in the skimmer container with a float switch.

Another question. If I need 10 " for the skimmer, do I drill so the bottom is st 10 " or the center of the bulk head?

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[CherylMcKay]

Read through this link, you will get many ideas

http://www.melevsreef.com/links.html

Thanks, I had seen this before but forgot to bookmark it and couldn't find it again.

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[The Grizz]

That was my plan but I wasn't sure if I should do that or put a pump in the skimmer container with a float switch.

Another question. If I need 10 " for the skimmer, do I drill so the bottom is st 10 " or the center of the bulk head?

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Make it so that you have the 10" required so pipes need to be set so they are just above the 10" mark.

[Albertan22]

I do have my ATO on the return, but because I can't quite get it balanced, my ATO is either going to much or it isn't going at all.

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How are you trying to balance it now? Have you considered a pump from an ATO reservoir with a float switch? This would effectively allow you to control the ATO flow to what is necessary to match your evaporation.

[CherylMcKay]

How are you trying to balance it now? Have you considered a pump from an ATO reservoir with a float switch? This would effectively allow you to control the ATO flow to what is necessary to match your evaporation.

I have a tunze osmolator for my ATO. Unfortunately, I can't keep the water level in the return pump area, at a stable level.

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[Arok3000]

What do you mean, you can't keep it at a stable level?
A sump is generally designed so the return pump area is the only place where the water level fluctuates due to water evaporation. In that case, the fluctuating levels are what triggers the ATO and tops it up with freshwater to maintain appropriate water level for purposes of correct salinity and pump operation.

Or is your water level fluctuating abnormally from the evaporation rate of the water? If that's the case, you might have to post some pictures or at least a drawing to indicate how your system is connected together, because that shouldn't be happening.

[Skimmerking]

Cheryl Send me a pm with your number i will call you tonight and we can sort this out for you.

don't worry about long distance

[subman]

If possible a pic or two may help a ton

[Aquattro]

If possible a pic or two may help a ton

Agreed. Not sure why/how you have multiple sumps/containers...

[daplatapus]

This is her sump set up (photo's taken from her build thread):
http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r595/Cheryl_McKay70/165%20G%20fish%20tank%20build/90378B6B-11B9-483A-A592-EBF53F4ACF58-1038-00000139E53ADA58.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r595/Cheryl_McKay70/165%20G%20fish%20tank%20build/44654FC8-28BF-4BA1-8B00-37C381AB2034-1038-00000139DF39FB8F.jpg

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r595/Cheryl_McKay70/165%20G%20fish%20tank%20build/E20EE56C-6C1C-4A78-A55F-2E12C887E569-1038-00000139DAFA4E98.jpg

I think there's restriction in the skimmer container to the sump. The water from the tank is going into the skimmer container faster than it can go into the sump. OR something there anyway.

[intarsiabox]

In the picture it looks like the 2 1" drain lines join at a tee and then go into the skimmer tub. This will reduce the drain capacity to that of a single 1" line. I don't know how much you want to fiddle with it but could you have one drain line go directly into the skimmer tub and then have the other drain line go directly into the first chamber of the glass sump? I think this would help with the fluctuating return section.

[Skimmerking]

That is a no brainer what u want if u can go bigger with the bulk head or if u have 2 1" drums that are goi g to the sump then elavate the skimmer portion and that will allow for a faster drain

[hillegom]

In the picture it looks like the 2 1" drain lines join at a tee and then go into the skimmer tub. This will reduce the drain capacity to that of a single 1" line. I don't know how much you want to fiddle with it but could you have one drain line go directly into the skimmer tub and then have the other drain line go directly into the first chamber of the glass sump? I think this would help with the fluctuating return section.

+1
Can't say it any better

[subman]

I still don't fully understand where going on. Is the return section being emptied by the pump then a rush of water fills it again? I haven't read your build so I'm not really sure what's happening on the top side of the pipes.

I was assuming the two drain lines one would be the drain and the other is an emergency. If that's the case then the single line from the container to the sump should suffice as long as it's far enough under the water to pull full siphon. I'm just guessing though. I think one of the easiest things would be to restrict your return line so both drains can keep up.

[duncangweller]

A 1" drain will dump approximately approximately 600gph into your sump. If you have two of these going into a skimmer section then you are adding around 1200gph into your sump and only pumping out around 700gph at most back into your display. If this is the case then you would need to out hate valves on your drains to limit the amount of water draining to your sump and to match the flow of the return pump to your DT.

If your pump is draining your sump too fast then you would need to put a ball/gate valve on the exit side of your return pump to limit the amour of water being removed from your sump to match the flow rate of the drain line.

Hope that makes sense,
Dunc

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[The Grizz]

In the picture it looks like the 2 1" drain lines join at a tee and then go into the skimmer tub. This will reduce the drain capacity to that of a single 1" line. I don't know how much you want to fiddle with it but could you have one drain line go directly into the skimmer tub and then have the other drain line go directly into the first chamber of the glass sump? I think this would help with the fluctuating return section.

That is a no brainer what u want if u can go bigger with the bulk head or if u have 2 1" drums that are goi g to the sump then elavate the skimmer portion and that will allow for a faster drain

Kinda sounds a lot like what I said a page or 2 ago :biggrin:

Increasing the size or adding more lines connecting the 2 containers is really the only answer here. Drains need to have room to flow so they should not be the same size as the return line. Almost every system I have ever had or seen usuall has 1" returns & 1 1/2" drains.

[CherylMcKay]

Kinda sounds a lot like what I said a page or 2 ago :biggrin:

Increasing the size or adding more lines connecting the 2 containers is really the only answer here. Drains need to have room to flow so they should not be the same size as the return line. Almost every system I have ever had or seen usuall has 1" returns & 1 1/2" drains.

+1. Changing it out this week.

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[Skimmerking]

Kinda sounds a lot like what I said a page or 2 ago :biggrin:

Increasing the size or adding more lines connecting the 2 containers is really the only answer here. Drains need to have room to flow so they should not be the same size as the return line. Almost every system I have ever had or seen usuall has 1" returns & 1 1/2" drains.
I was trying to type that Grizz but my mind was going faster then the fingers it was suppose to reas 2 x 1.5 " oops

[The Grizz]

I was trying to type that Grizz but my mind was going faster then the fingers it was suppose to reas 2 x 1.5 " oops

If its not your mind going faster then your figures it's your mouth going faster then your mind :surprise:

[The Grizz]

+1. Changing it out this week.

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Please let us know if this helps.

[CherylMcKay]

So after a a couple of delays, I finally have the 1.5 inch drain between the skimmer container and the sump. Thank goodness it seems to work. I was able to balance the return section of the sump last night and I am confident that i have proper flow to the display without having to throttle the return pump..

Thanks.

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[Skimmerking]

have you turned of the power yet to see if it will hold the water

[The Grizz]

If it did before the mod it still should.

Glad to here you found your balance Cheryl.

[CherylMcKay]

have you turned of the power yet to see if it will hold the water

I did and all is good. I set my display at the syphon break and the filled the sump and the skimmer to max capacity before turning on the pumps. I waited a bit to let everything circulate, the I double checked by pulling the plug.... No water in the tank. Now maybe I can go on holidays in Jan without worrying that I could flood the house.

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[Skimmerking]

If it did before the mod it still should.

Glad to here you found your balance Cheryl.

Greg we talked about raising the skimmer sump that is why I asked that and didn't know if she did or not.