Calgary Stores, Stocking Questions, and preparing my tank for Mandarins

[mikeclarke]

Hi there,

My 100 gallon tank has been left decimated after a big ich outbreak. My sps, zoas, softies, all look okay. All I have left is

-1 clown
-1 foxface
-4 pj cardinals
-1 starry blenny
-2 cleaner shrimps

I had and lost
-the other clown
-yellow tang
-kole eyed tang
-emperor angel
-royal gramma
-goblin goby

I'd like to get another clown as they were fun to watch together and I really liked the emperor angel. I have only been in the saltwater hobby for 2 years so I am a bit of a newbie. Does anyone have any suggestions on what fish I should get, what people suggest for qt procedures (I have a 20gal qt tank), and importantly where to get the fish.

I would one day like to get mandarins and I would like to make sure they don't survive. I have a 50 gallon sump in the basement but I've read that you really don't get many copepods that transfer from the sump/refugium back upstairs. So what should I do?

I am coming to Calgary next weekend and would like to get some more fish (and obviously qt them this time). What fish would people suggest? What store(s) should I check out? I live in Fernie and it is about 3 hrs away.

[jtbadco]

There are a few things you can do to assist with getting Mandarin gobys to thrive.

First, having alot of good intricate LR in the DT is essential. You need lots of little cracks and crevices for the copepods and amphipods to reproduce in.

You can assist this with little 'rubble piles' located throughout the DT as well.

You can also build a small 'cryptic tank' or sump/refugium above the tank and gravity feed the return into the tank.

Also, adding some type of small live foods to the tank may assist in stocking it with lots of Mandarin food (ie Tigger pods, etc)

I also suggest looking into ORA captive bred Mandarins. They are raised on prepared foods so are more likely to thrive in a home aquarium.

There are probably lots more things that more experienced reefers will add. Hope this helps

[daplatapus]

Hi there,



I would one day like to get mandarins and I would like to make sure they don't survive.

Du'oh! Hope thats a typo :D

[ChizerBunoi]

^^^ I was about to say the same. :surprise:

[NanoCat]

I assume that your outbreak was many weeks ago so that the new fish don't just get sick when you put them into your tank.

I would suggest if you ever purchase a Dragonet that you try to teach it to eat prepared foods like brine and mysis enriched with vitamins. I purchased a Dragonet locally at Oceans and placed it in a breeder net within my tank for 3-4 weeks during which time. I used a feeding tube twice a day or more to offer at first brine shrimp and then slowly mysis. Once the Dragonet was eating regularly I let him into the dt and the proceeded to feed him with the same tube everyday.

He now has learned to take even more of the frozen food I feed to the display and hunts the tube when it goes into the tank. I do leave a large pile of food in front of him because they are slow eaters and other fish and crabs may try to steal it from him.

You can also make a feeding den for the Dragonet to help with this. I don't have much trouble with this as I only have one clown fish, tail spot blenny, and some hermits that will steal from him.

When I purchased him his sides were caved in a little and he was starving but now he has fattened up a lot and bulges at the sides more. I is definitely a good idea to have a fuge with pods as some will make it into the display and you can shake some out into the display as well when you do maintenance but if you can train you Dragonet to eat prepared food it would go a long way. It is not a guarantee that every Dragonet will take to training and an Ora Dragonet would probably be best but it is possible.

not sure if you have read this article:
http://coralmagazine.coverleaf.com/coral/20111112#pg51

and also here is a link for a few ways to train Dragonets:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=256327&st=20&p=3360190&#entry3360190

[mikeclarke]

Du'oh! Hope thats a typo :D

Whoops. Yeah, I would like it if they survived.

My ich has been gone for a few days and now it will be two weeks when I get new fish into the qt tank. I couldn't catch the sick ich fish so they stayed in my display tank.

Where is a good place to get more marine fish and what would you all suggest getting? When they are in the qt what would you treat them with and how long would you leave them in there before transferring them to the display. I will transfer display tank water to the qt tank (40% weekly) while they are in qt.

[Leah]

The ick is still in your tank.

[NanoCat]

I believe you need to wait 8-10 weeks without sick fish in the tank before the ick would be considered gone. So I would wait longer.

[Leah]

The ick will not go away without leaving the system fishless. The ones you still have in the DT will still have it and it will probably return.

[Aquattro]

I believe you need to wait 8-10 weeks without sick fish in the tank before the ick would be considered gone. So I would wait longer.

That time frame assumes no fish at all, sick or otherwise. Adding new fish, even after quarantine, will likely result in one or more getting ich, starting the whole process over again. If you're going to quarantine, get the existing fish out, add them all to QT, treat for ich, and after waiting 10 weeks, add them back. Or don't waste time QT'ing the new fish and hope for the best. Which, IMO, is a bad plan.

[Steve...]

I also got a question about ich... I have a 55 gal that had problems with ich and right now I have 2 fish in the tank with no signs of ich. Im planning to transfer these 2 fish into my new 220 gal tank later. Should I still treat the fish for ich before i throw them into the 220 DT even if they look healthy and fine? I will be stripping the tank down and using it as a QT.

[sphelps]

You still have to treat them to be certain they don't have ich and transfer it into the new tank, ASAIK some fish can transfer it without showing signs. In such cases I take a lighter quarantine approach. Any fish that appears healthy and doesn't show signs of ich but came from a potential source of ich I hold them at hypo-salinity for 8 days in a tank that always has hypo conditions. After 8 days they move from that tank to another tank with matched water conditions but completely separate with 100% uncontaminated water. In that tank they are slowly brought back up to normal salinity and closely monitored for another week or so. In theory ich can't make it through this treatment based on it's life cycle and how it's effected from hypo. Just make sure it's ich you're actually concerned about and not something else.

[sphelps]

ASAIK

Man I suck at abbreviations

[Steve...]

What if I put copper in the 55 gal tank and treat any potential threat of ich? Will the copper destroy the biological filtration?

[mikeclarke]

So because I never had ich in my qt tank and just in my display, I can't get more fish and put them in the qt? I am confused.

What I think everyone is saying is that I really need to catch all the fish in the display and put them in the qt tank. Then leave the display fishless to let the ich die because it has no hosts (it won't attach to inverts). The in the qt tank make the water hypo for a period of time to make sure the ich is dead or I could use copper. Once I know it is dead then I can put the in the display (after water matching). Then I can get more fish in the qt.

Where is an awesome place to get fish in Calgary once I have the ich sorted? What fish would people recommend?

[howdy20012002]

I think what people are suggesting is to capture all your current fish in your tank and put them in to a QT tank with the newcomers. then leave the main display tank completely fishless for 10 weeks and treat the QT with hyposalinity for that same time period.
If you don't have corals or many inverts I might suggest gathering up any inverts or corals and putting them into another smaller tank and treating your DT with hyposalinity for 2 months...otherwise you going to need a big QT tank with that many fish.
for the other question, use cupramine for treatment if you are going to use copper and make sure you test and retest...follow the directions as they as put forth by seachem..or the copper will kill your fish as quickly as the ich.
make sure you buy a chemical test kit.
copper will not destroy the biological filtre...however, any inverts in your tank will die off which could cause an ammonia spike...and if you test for ammonia, the copper in the system will cause a slight reading of ammonia.
I personally would suggest hyposalinity of around .10 for 2 months if you know it is only ich and not marine velvet.

[Aquattro]

I think what people are suggesting is to capture all your current fish in your tank and put them in to a QT tank with the newcomers.

Correct, that's what we're saying.

[sphelps]

I think 10 weeks might be a bit aggressive, once fish are removed worst case all the ich will be in Tomonts within 24 hours and that stage can only last up to 4 weeks after which they hatch and can only survive a couple days without a host. So realistically 5 weeks is actually enough, 6 weeks to be safe, 10 weeks to be overkill.

[Leah]

And do not use the water from the DT for your water changes. Got it? Good! :lol:

[asylumdown]

I think 10 weeks might be a bit aggressive, once fish are removed worst case all the ich will be in Tomonts within 24 hours and that stage can only last up to 4 weeks after which they hatch and can only survive a couple days without a host. So realistically 5 weeks is actually enough, 6 weeks to be safe, 10 weeks to be overkill.

The 9-10 week time frame is the result of peer-reviewed work on cryptocarion irritans that showed in extreme cases tomonts could produce viable and infective tomites up to 72 days after encystment. It's an extreme case, obviously, and likely represents less than a tiny fraction of 1% that will stay encysted for that long, but all it takes is one to start the whole process over again. If you're going to go through the nightmare of catching all your fish and treating them, isn't it worth it to wait the extra few weeks to be sure?

ETA: stupid auto-correct, though '...produce viable and infective tomatoes' did read pretty well for an auto-correct fail.