Dirty Water and Clean Water

[Coralgurl]

What does this mean? When someone says these corals like the water clean or they like the water dirty, what are they refering to? Or low/high nutrient system? And what types of corals like what? Is it phosphates, nitrates? Lots of nutients from foods? And how are both types of systems acheived without creating loads of algae issues? Hope these are not face palm questions.... I'm seeing a bit of success finally in my tanks and I guess I should really decide what direction I want things to go and how to get them there. Up until now, its throw things in and see what they do.

I haven't tested my tanks in quite a few months as it just stressed me out. As of today, I have no idea what my big 3 are at, but considering growth i've seen in both lps and sps, I assume all is good....not the right way to reef, but it saves a bit of my sanity.

[mrhasan]

Dirty water: high nutrient tank; favored by many softies, some LPS and possibly some SPS (:question:)
Clean water: low nutrient tank; favored by, oh well, SPS :razz:

Atleast that's what I learnt :D

[Aquattro]

...not the right way to reef, but it saves a bit of my sanity.

That's how I do it, been pretty good for me :)

[Coralgurl]

Dirty water: high nutrient tank; favored by many softies, some LPS and possibly some SPS (:question:)
Clean water: low nutrient tank; favored by, oh well, SPS :razz:

Atleast that's what I learnt :D

The bold is the question....lol whats a high/low nutrient system???? :wink:

[mrhasan]

The bold is the question....lol whats a high/low nutrient system???? :wink:

I am not going into that since that's a very debatable topic because different people will have different perspective on this. :razz:

[reefwars]

sheena its all what people believe as its worked for them , basically all corals(to my knowledge) like clean water its just some are hardier to bad water conditions like zoanthids for instance.



high and low nutrient systems could either be talking about nitrates or phosphates(such as ulns) or how much organics are in the water column(perhaps feeding,ditrius etc)



some animals like elegance come from muddy laggon type waters and so people say they are " high nutrient" compared to our clean water we have in aquaria.


its all a load of crap lol






ps....told you the laid back system works , the biggest problem most of us have in reeftanks is......us lol

[kien]

I don't think that there is a right or wrong or black or white answer to this question. As already suggested, the answers will be based on individual interpretations.

My interpretation is this: Dirty/High nutrient water means there is a lot of dissolved organics in the water. In other words, you know all that gunk that your skimmer pulls out? Well, imagine if your skimmer didn't pull all that gunk out. With all that gunk dissolved in the water comes high phosphates and nitrates as a result.

On the other side of the fence, clean/low nutrient water means there's a lot less of that gunk (dissolved organics) in the water. This as a result will give you less phosphates and nitrates.

[Reef_Geek]

as much as we read about how tropical reef waters are nutrient poor (in context of oceanography), it is in a relative sense. Oceanographers deem, for example, Caribbean reefs to be nutrient poor in dissolved carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus based compounds, where the depths of oceans (deeper than continental shelf) act as a holding basin termed a 'carbon sink' because life and materials only sink down wards. That is why reef ecosystems were such wonders (no nutrient in water, very little algae in water or on rocks, what is supporting the bottom trophic levels?) until zooxanthellae was realized to be the base of reef ecosystems. Relatively speaking, nutrient rich waters are those off the west coast areas of 'upwelling' where oceanic currents and weather patterns bring water from the carbon sinks of the depths against the coast, and water flows up to the surface and then away from the coast. When the nutrients come up to the sun light, algae (phytoplankton) ensues and supports the coastal systems. So nutrient rich and nutrient poor are relative terms from different oceanic systems. When we're talking tropical reef waters... nearly all corals (whether lagoon, fore reef, reef crest etc) all pretty much come from nutrient poor waters (naturally speaking). I believe, however, there is merit to water turbidity (not just river run offs). Having logged over 100 dives in the tropics, it's still amazing the amount of stuff in the water column that stings me and makes me itch after a dive. There's certainly a lot more phytoplankton and zooplankton in the water column of nature than those of our tanks, even for nutrient poor waters (relatively speaking in oceanography). Some corals simply depend more/less on feeding than others in conjunction with zooxanthellae. I think in the context of aquarium talk... these terms all get muddled up and used interchangeably in conveying
1) filter feeding needs, and 2) tolerance for crap in the water / chemical warfare from other corals

Last thought... and if I wash my hands in your dirty water... http://youtu.be/G5kLzAajFZQ

[Coralgurl]

Thank you everyone for the responses!! That definitely helps!!

[asylumdown]

as much as we read about how tropical reef waters are nutrient poor (in context of oceanography), it is in a relative sense. Oceanographers deem, for example, Caribbean reefs to be nutrient poor in dissolved carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus based compounds

The waters around reefs aren't necessarily nutrient poor because the nutrients aren't there. They're usually poor because reefs are such efficient ecosystems that nearly anything that can be consumed by an organism, is. Reefs are high energy and have a high biomass, so there is tight competition for any and all biologically available nutrients. I think some times people get confused when they talk about nutrient regimes, as when we say 'nutrient poor waters or soils' it's different than saying 'nutrient poor systems'. Reefs hold tons of nutrients in the form of biomass, and therefore, the waters they suck them out of don't.

The whole thing is a giant cycle, and when we talk about a tank as being 'low nutrient', we're only talking about half of it. A more accurate term for a low nutrient tank would be "high nutrient, with a tightly controlled input/consumption ratio", but I guess that's harder to type.

[Zoaelite]

The waters around reefs aren't necessarily nutrient poor because the nutrients aren't there. They're usually poor because reefs are such efficient ecosystems that nearly anything that can be consumed by an organism, is. Reefs are high energy and have a high biomass, so there is tight competition for any and all biologically available nutrients. I think some times people get confused when they talk about nutrient regimes, as when we say 'nutrient poor waters or soils' it's different than saying 'nutrient poor systems'. Reefs hold tons of nutrients in the form of biomass, and therefore, the waters they suck them out of don't.

The whole thing is a giant cycle, and when we talk about a tank as being 'low nutrient', we're only talking about half of it. A more accurate term for a low nutrient tank would be "high nutrient, with a tightly controlled input/consumption ratio", but I guess that's harder to type.

Very well put Adam, I think the only thing I can add is that no organism will thrive under "Dirty water" (Water that has high concentrations of NO2, NO3, NH3, PO4...). I personally see the term dirty water as water that has high concentrations of food particles available, while maintaining lower levels of dissolved organics.

This is not easy to achieve in a reef aquarium due to the nature of confinement but I believe the most successful tanks out there are ones who emulate this.

[Reef_Geek]

The waters around reefs aren't necessarily nutrient poor because the nutrients aren't there. They're usually poor because reefs are such efficient ecosystems that nearly anything that can be consumed by an organism, is. Reefs are high energy and have a high biomass, so there is tight competition for any and all biologically available nutrients. I think some times people get confused when they talk about nutrient regimes, as when we say 'nutrient poor waters or soils' it's different than saying 'nutrient poor systems'. Reefs hold tons of nutrients in the form of biomass, and therefore, the waters they suck them out of don't.

The whole thing is a giant cycle, and when we talk about a tank as being 'low nutrient', we're only talking about half of it. A more accurate term for a low nutrient tank would be "high nutrient, with a tightly controlled input/consumption ratio", but I guess that's harder to type.

what I was referring to is on page 27 of the following link. It is a basic intro level marine biology text book. http://books.google.ca/books?id=2cm_s-I01kcC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=vertical+nutrient+distribution+ocean&source=bl&ots=2f9H0eqVoX&sig=ANUpXGYeQX0bkKaL_HkI0hB2A_g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gY6tUOGOI4e7iwKd6oG4Cg&ved=0CGwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=vertical%20nutrient%20distribution%20ocean&f=false