Help with nitrates

[makana]

I have been fighting high nitrates for far too long and don't know what do. My nitrates are usually between 10 and 15 when I test before a water change. I tried cooking half the rock first and then the second half. I have a shallow sand bed that cleaned up with a gravel vac. The tank is an all in one and I cleaned out the back chambers. Last week I did 25% water changes every other day and pushed the nitrates down to around 3 (tested on Sunday). Tonight they are 10 again.

I run filter floss that I change every other day. I have a skimmer that is rated for double the capacity of the tank. I don't normally run carbon but am right now. I have cheato in the tank and an turf scrubber in the back chamber (all attempts to lower nitrates). Nothing has worked.

The tank is a 28g nano cube with 30lbs live rock and a shallow sand bed.

I currently have 10lbs of rock in a cooking tub that came out of this tank and the nitrates in the tub are still climbing to 15 in a week, changing 100% of the water. They have been in there for 5 weeks now. Is it possible the nitrates are in the display tank are leaching from my rock?

[mrhasan]

Is it possible the nitrates are in the display tank are leaching from my rock?

Very much possible. Since you are saying that the water in the tub is also getting nitrate upto 15 in a week, so the rocks are the main criminal I presume :)

[Arok3000]

Have you considered introducing a nuisance algae problem to the tank?
Keeps my nitrates down...

[Mike-fish]

How long have you had the tank running. How old is the rock

[makana]

The tank is roughly 4 years old as is the rock. There are currently two types of nuisance algae in there.

Any ideas on what I can do? Throw in the towel?

[kien]

The tank is roughly 4 years old as is the rock. There are currently two types of nuisance algae in there.

Any ideas on what I can do? Throw in the towel?

I'm not sure if they make towels that absorb nitrates. Wait, do they? That would be totally awesome!!

Anyway, have you considered trying BioPellets in a reactor? If set up properly they can do a great job at reducing nitrates.

..seriously do they make nitrate absorbing towels?

[Mike-fish]

Do you have any dead spots in the tank or detrus build ups in the tank

[toytech]

4 years could mean 4 years of detirius buildup in the rocks , you could try taking one rock out at a time and bleaching them then re add to the tank (slowly of course).Bleach eats all the organics in the rocks that could be causing your nitrates.

[Mike-fish]

To give an alternate to toytech's post take a turkey baster or a big syringe to blast off a bit at a time to keep from continually restarting to tank by cleaning the rock heavily like that

[asylumdown]

+1 to Kien's suggestion for biopellets, or some other form of carbon dosing. I think they're making biopellet reactors small enough for a 28 gallon tank these days.

Fixing the problem will likely take a while though, as you need to both exhaust your bank of nitrogenous waste that your rocks are emitting (if that's what's happening), and get the nitrate reducing system up to a capacity that can handle the amount that's being produced. While that happens, you might end up with a cyano explosion (common when people start any form of carbon dosing), and the other algae will keep growing, so it might seem like it's getting worse before it gets better. The key will be to keep removing as much of the algae as possible, as routinely as possible until finally the nitrate reduction system starts to outcompete it and it stops growing back. Depending on your system, that could take a couple of months. If you just run the pellets or carbon dosing and don't actively remove the algae, you will wait a lot longer to see an improvement.

[makana]

I changed the flow the best I could but its pretty much impossible to avoid dead spots in a nano cube. I use a turkey basted on the rocks every couple days.

I don't really want to put a pellet reactor on it. The tank is already running way more equipment than I wanted. But I guess that may be my only way out at this point.

I don't think I've read about bleaching the rock. It sounds a little harsh and I would expect the rock to be dead after that. I guess if that's the case I could buy dry rock and swap it in for live over time.

[asylumdown]

If you don't want to run pellets, you could always start dosing vodka, sugar, or vinegar (or all three). It's the same idea as pellets, and there's heaps of how to's online, and it doesn't require a reactor. It's a little more fickle to get going, but once it's dialled in apparently it's quite successful.

[makana]

I'll look into a nano sized reactor. Any thoughts on prodibio? I think there is a nano version of that.

[asylumdown]

Some people swear by it. I tried it on my old 20 gallon nano and 90 gallon reef and it didn't seem to do much, but I might not have given it enough time. Those tanks never tested as having any detectable nutrients though, they were just over-run by problem algaes, so the Prodibio might not have been able to get it's foot in the door, so to speak. There's enough people out there firmly in the Prodibio "camp" to suggest that it does do something

[Proteus]

Yeah it takes 6/8 weeks for prodibio. That's when I noticed the difference. I wouldn't use the nano kit. Just buy the bioptim and digest.

[makana]

Any other suggestions?

Anyone know where I can get prodibio if I go that route?

[Ryan7]

[QUOTE=makana;765933]I have a shallow sand bed that cleaned up with a gravel vac.
I run filter floss that I change every other day.

Why are you cleaning the sand with a vac or cleaning it at all?

Leave the sand alone. Constantly disturbing the sand will cause problems with your nitrates. The idea of a sand bed is to produce natural nitrite/nitrate reducing qualities with pods, worms, bacteria ect....

Ditch the floss.

If your nitrates still remain, start slowing dosing vinager to add nitrate reducing bacteria to the system.

[makana]

A shallow sand bed has no nitrate reducing qualities. All of the reading I have done has led me to believe that it is purely asthetic. If I understand it correctly, a shallow sand bed can become a nitrate factory. Maybe I'm out to lunch but that is what I have read.

Why would I ditch the filter floss? It is my only means of removing larger particles before they settle.

[Proteus]

I have 1/2 cm sand bed which I clean. I run filter material also. But even though you clean the sand bed you should have cuc to get detritus and uneaten food before it breaks down

[makana]

There are a few sand sifting snails that live in the sand as well as a handfull of hermit crabs and a handfull of turbo snails. I never used to clean the sand bed but recently have been reading that a shallow sand bed should be kept clean so I started cleaning it in hopes it would help.

[xenon]

I've was struggling with keeping my phosphates bellow 0.06 and nitrates under 10 ever since I setup my system 8 months ago.

I kept hearing good things about Red Sea NO3:PO4-X so I decided to give it a try. From my understanding its a complex mix of carbons like vodka, sugar and vinegar. They don't tell you exactly whats in the bottle but they do say that it contains methanol. I also smell vinegar but the rest is a mystery.

I never dose anything to my tank other than cal/alk/mag/potassium/iodine and food so I was pretty sceptical about trying this.

My results speak for themselves.

Test kits used:
NO3 Salifert (brand new)
PO4 Hanna HI 713 Low Range

Day 1:
NO3: 10
PO4: 0.06
Dose: 12ml (Stated NO3:PO4-X @ the recommended 2ml/25gallon per day)

Day 2:
NO3: 4
PO4: 0.02
Dose: 6ml (I cut back by 50% because I was shocked how fast it was working)

Day 3:
NO3: 4
PO4: 0.01
Dose: 8ml (increased by 2ml to get my nitrates lower)

Day 4:
NO3: 4
PO4: 0.00
Dose: 12ml (no longer scared to dose the recommended amount)

Day 5:
NO3: 2.5
PO4: 0.00
Dose: 12ml

Day 6:
NO3: 1
PO4: 0.00
Dose: 6ml (I am getting close to my goal so I reduced by 50% to try and maintain)

Day 7:
NO3: 0
PO4: 0.00
Dose: 3ml (cut my dose by 50% again to see if its enough to maintain)

Never once did my corals SNT/RTN. The only side effects I noticed was better coloration and polyp extension.

I was so pleased that I ordered two bottles of Red Sea Reef Energy A/B to compliment NO3:PO4-X.

[makana]

Wow. Is that something you have to keep dosing? Do you have to dose every day?

[ChizerBunoi]

What about ditching the sand and going barebottom? You won't immediate results in the first day, but as you turkey base your rocks prior to doing a WC, it will slowly disappear.

Or vice versa, replace your sand with new sand.

[xenon]

Wow. Is that something you have to keep dosing? Do you have to dose every day?

Yes. Just like dosing vodka, sugar, vinegar.

Once I determine my maintenance dosage, I will hook it up to a dosing pump so that its fully automated.