Never Trust a RIO Pump!

[canadawest]

Originally posted by farmerjo90:
Boy are you ever lucky! It just goes to show that it is well worth it to do research and buy the best quality equipment you can. Andrew where can I get a TDS meter. I see reefpure is gone.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen to that Shirley!

For the TDS meter, try AJ at AquariumPros.ca. I know that he's offering them with his RO/DI specials, and I'm sure he'll sell them alone as well. Not as cheap as Reefpure was selling them, but they are in CDN$ and shipping wont be bad. Tell him that canadawest sent you, he might give you a better deal?

[Doug]

Glad it never hurt the tank Andrew. After similar problems about 4 years ago, I have not used one since.

[Jeff]

Never had a problem with em. Have one driving the input into my refugium, and one driving my protein skimmer right now. They've been working for years.

Had a powerhead go on me in that manner though...was either a maxijet or a hagen. Black scummy stuff on the top of the water. Was just a circ pump in a bucket of spare rock though smile.gif

[canadawest]

Well I've heard the stories, but now have the first hand experience! :eek:

My RIO 2500 pump exploded and spilled oil everywhere!

I never did trust this pump in the first place because of stories I had read on reef boards (got it with the used Berlin HOT skimmer) so I immediately replaced it with a better Mag 7 to run the skimmer. Have been using the RIO only to mix water for the past 6 months.

I am so thankful that it was just mixing water in one of my large buckets, and not actually in my tank otherwise I suspect I would have lost all my livestock.

Basically it made a bunch of chattering noise, then a pop, then silence. A nasty smell of burnt plastic arose and I went to investigate. The mixing bucket was an ugly cesspool of black oily residue. The pump had cracked and even popped the back cover right off. :mad:

So it is true, the RIO pumps do have some sort of oil in them, and when they go, THEY GO! I wouldn't trust one in my tank EVER! Just a warning for those who have em. The attage, "you get what you pay for" holds true here I guess.

[farmerjo90]

Boy are you ever lucky! It just goes to show that it is well worth it to do research and buy the best quality equipment you can. Andrew where can I get a TDS meter. I see reefpure is gone.

cheers
shirley

[Jacoda]

My RIO 2500 pump exploded and spilled oil everywhere!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess you got an useless impeller I can have.....:-)

Please let me know if you still have it!

[ 15 July 2002, 10:00: Message edited by: Ace ]

[naesco]

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[ 15 July 2002, 21:39: Message edited by: naesco ]

[naesco]

Originally posted by naesco:
Another one.
There ought to be a law against the sale of this product.
It is just a matter of time before a reefer who loses his reef, sues Rio and the LFS who sold it to him<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[canadawest]

I guess you got an useless impeller I can have.....:-)

Please let me know if you still have it!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Jack, unfortunately the whole unit went into the garbage that day, and is in a landfill somewhere by now. (Pretty much where it should be)

[ 16 July 2002, 16:07: Message edited by: canadawest ]

[Jacoda]

Oh well.......had to ask.... :D

[Troy F]

I just wanted to add one more thing to this thread. I did a quick search and couldn't find the exact thread I was looking for but I've cut and pasted one of TDWyatt's posts on the subject.

I normally don't comment on the equipment side of posts, but on this particular topic, I have PLENTY to say. I did use rios at one time, for the money, they put out a lot of output, are submersible and definitely cheap, About 2 or 3 years ago, though, there seemed to be a glut of folks over on AOL having burnouts with the 2500 and 1800 model that ended up poisoning the tanks with pcb's. The problem with the pump is not necessarily that they are shoddy, but that they have no thermal protection circuit. The scenario then plays out like this: Rio's use a cheaper fine wire in the windings for the motor (at least, 2 years ago they did, I dissected 3 of the 2500's after they got REALLY hot in my systems) and although it allows them to work well, when the load gets too much or if the insulation starts to degrade due to the heat, the windings are more susceptable to little shorts, which leads to more heat, which leads to more insulation failure, which leads to more shorts; a vicious cycle. In many PH's and submersible pumps, there is a thermal protection circuit that either temporarily cuts off the motor (ie when the load is too heavy for that motor) or completely shuts off the motor and requires a replacement of a "fusible" link. Maxijets are, for sure, thermally protected, as are many "UL" listed pumps. the Rio's are not. Period. This means that as the pump begins to fail, it will get hotter and hotter until either a major shortout occurs; in which much of the plastic casing will melt and the wire will (hopefully) short out to prevent a grounding event in the tank (at 110 v 15 amps in the US in most households) or the breaker or fuse box activates and the breaker trips or the fuses (in older homes) blow. God forbid that one of these systems fails and the current stays on... I have had people post that there has been a fire at the location of the electrical systems for their tanks using Rio pumps (I believe Alice was on-line on AOL when this was posted a few years ago) For this reason alone, and the fact that your tank will have difficulty recovering from the release of the meltdown products of the pump (even a slow release of the isnulation failure products), please make sure that any equipment that you use is thermally protected, and I would suggest that you have your system's electrical circuits isolated (put on a seperate breaker) from the rest of the power systems in your homes. I'd even put the MH's on a seperate system from the pumps, heaters, etc, just in case the lights trip the breaker (then you wouldn't loose your pumps/circulation if the lighting trips the breaker)

Please, the combination of SW and electricity is bad enough as it is, make sure to take the time to protect your critters (and yourself) from any unnecessary risks. Use GFIC outlets for all your devices going to the tanks, and have an electricial check your wiring for load if you are not sure of the capacity of your home's wiring. I'd much rather read that you lost a coral (I can't believe I said that) than hear that you lost a room, your home, or a life to an electrical short...

Thought it may make a decision easier during your next shopping spree ;) .

[Skimmerking]

Man i feel bad ,I sold my skimmer to a guy in B.C in surrey. Man i feel bad for him buying it.
Well I hope that he doesnt have a problem with it ..

[Bob I]

and I would suggest that you have your system's electrical circuits isolated (put on a seperate breaker) from the rest of the power systems in your homes.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As a qualified electrician, I would suggest this is quite impossible to do in an existing home. There are 12 outlets on each circuit in a home, and to remove one to put it on a separate circuit would mean you would have to remove all the wallboard, and rewire that circuit. You would be better off building a new home.

[Troy F]

I did it, or I should say my Dad did it smile.gif . I had him put two 20Amp breakers with each running 4 outlets. My breaker box just happened to be right beside the tank. Does this make sense?

[StirCrazy]

Bob, it is actual wuite easy to do prioviding you are doing it on interior walls and not exterior walls, all you have to do is fish the new wires to a new outlet. doesent take any more work realy than new construction except you realy should have two people to do it hehe..

Steve

[Bob I]

Well Steve, it totally depends on the walls of course. In some cases it would indeed be easy, but in some others it would be close to impossible. I definitely would not want to try it in my place.

Troy F, I hope your dad used 12 gauge wire, and 20 amp receptacles, as normal receptacles are not rated for 20 amps.(this is an electrician, who is opposed to code violations talking) :D :D

[ 17 July 2002, 17:04: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]

[Samw]

Hey Andrew. You should post your experience to this current RC thread on Broken Rios:

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103466

[mutabaruka]

Ok, so I'm convinced I don't want to put my Rio in my sump(runs my T-1000) What can I replace it with? Any suggestions?

[EmilyB]

Suggestions:

web page (http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9803&highlight=turbofloter)

[mutabaruka]

Thanks EmilyB

[mutabaruka]

Hey Mike! ...... do they have the needle valves as well?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Small Rio powerheads (like the ones used in bakpak) can be replaced with equivalent versions from Hagen or Maxijet (where Maxijet is a bit better than Hagen). A venturi kit can be purchased with the Maxijet so that it can produce fine bubbles for the bakpak.

Keep in mind that most pumps will fail over time (they are made of plastic...and plastic crumbles in water over time). Rios are the worst, but Maxijets and Mags are not far behind (2 to 3 times better).

- Victor.

[ganowicki]

I have a CPR BakPak Skimmer that has a RIO pump attached to it. What Kind of a pump can I replace it with??

[Skimmerking]

Hey there brian you can get a EHEIM or a MAG will runn the pump too.
how the skimmer doing ..

[Doug]

Its hard to get needle wheel in those models Mike. I dont believe Eheim makes one anymore, because there was to much cavitation at start up. I had to blow in mine, every time I restarted.

There is a replacement needle wheel pump made for Turbofloaters. I dont recall the name at the moment, but have seen them on US sites. I can find it if you wish Brian.

I would not worry that much about running your skimmer. Its a new pump, should be fine for now. I never lost any livestock when mine fried.

[mutabaruka]

Thanks Doug, I appreciate the assist.

Victor I was checking out the Maxijet option and while there is a venturi kit available, the largest capacity MJ I could find, the 1200, only has a flow rate of 295 GPH. The Rio 2100 that comes with the T-1000 is rated at 700 GPH.

I will use the Rio til I can find a suitable replacement and pray it holds on!

[JoJo]

mutabaruka

2100 that comes with the T-1000 is rated at 700 GPH. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We tested a mag 7 on Ace's T1000. Worked great! Started to skim in less than 1/2 an hour. Coral Ocean was selling the mag 7 for $85+taxes, John at J&L will match it.

[Doug]

So far, the only other needle wheel I have found is an Ocean Runner pump. There is a Turbofloater that comes with one. I know there is another though. If interested in the Oceon Runner, contact AJ at www.aquariumpros.ca (http://www.aquariumpros.ca)

JoJo has a good point also. I assume she means with no needle wheel. Some people have run their Euroreefs, with a standard Sedra pump, instead of a needle wheel. They have produced the same results. {so they say.} If you could borrow a few pumps, like Mags to try, may be worth while.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

You can fit the Maxijet venturi on a Mag smile.gif

http://community-2.webtv.net/MarkPelski/CPRSR6CONVERSION/

- Victor.

[ 05 August 2002, 11:07: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[Jacoda]

I've tried a Mag7 on my T1000, it's a bit overkill but it works.

Needlewheels by default don't draw a lot of water so a large pump such as Rio 2100/2500 is required, I believe a Maxijet1200 will be a good choice as long as it has enough strength to pull air in from the T1000's venturi input, and let the impellers chop up the bubbles.

To be on the safe side I would use a Mag5 when the impeller dies in my Rio 2500.

[mutabaruka]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I am going to try a couple of options on and see what fits! I think I will try the Maxijet first, simply because I can use it for circulation if it doesn't work out, can never have too much of that!

[Skimmerking]

Oh make up your mind you old fossil tongue.gif See if you were 33 you could make your own mind upo .... :D
Just kidding GO with the mag for now there Brian