Help coral problem

[mohammadali]

Hi my frog spawn shrink all the way in
and now my neon candy cane got all of this grey things all over it

water salinity is 1.24

water temperature 79F

nitrate is 10 - 20 ppm

PH 7.4 idk how to get the PH to 8.2

nitrite 5.0 -10 ppm

nitrite 0 ppm

ammonia 0 pmm

here is the pic

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s464/alexafg/IMAG1265.jpg

[ScubaSteve]

Your pH is extremely low and that to me seems to be the big issue, aside from the high nitrates. Start with a few large water changes and then pick up some buffer from JL to start correcting your pH. Go talk to Jon or Derek at JL and they'll explain how it works.

[mrhasan]

Your pH is extremely low and that to me seems to be the big issue, aside from the high nitrates. Start with a few large water changes and then pick up some buffer from JL to start correcting your pH. Go talk to Jon or Derek at JL and they'll explain how it works.

+1. I wouldn't even call it extremely low. Its in danger level. Maybe you don't have enough ventilation in your room. The dkH might be off too.

[FragIt Dan]

I don't think that pH reading is accurate. Unless your top off water is low pH and your aren't letting it stand, or your dKh is way low, that pH is not really possible (pH equilibrium point is almost entirely controlled by ambient CO2). If you are dumping top off water in all at once you might want to check the pH of it first as it may be shocking your tank, or even better yet let it stand for a day before you add it. Your nitrate is a bit of a concern and you list nitrite both at 0 and at 5-10ppm... if it is not zero this is cause for concern. Water changes are a quick way out, but why are they there in the first place?

[mohammadali]

I have marinium liouid KH

[mohammadali]

i added some KH buffer now the ph is 8.0
i took out the rbta, couple frags
still some livestock is in the main tank such as cleaner shrimp gsp and snails

should i take out the other livestock ?

[Spyd]

I don't think that pH reading is accurate. Unless your top off water is low pH and your aren't letting it stand, or your dKh is way low, that pH is not really possible (pH equilibrium point is almost entirely controlled by ambient CO2). If you are dumping top off water in all at once you might want to check the pH of it first as it may be shocking your tank, or even better yet let it stand for a day before you add it. Your nitrate is a bit of a concern and you list nitrite both at 0 and at 5-10ppm... if it is not zero this is cause for concern. Water changes are a quick way out, but why are they there in the first place?

I agree. Your nitrates are high which is never a good thing. Also, do you have an ALK test kit at all? May want to test that as well just to make sure your tank is in the right range. Low ph tells me that your alk levels might be quite low as well.

[jords]

This is in regards to I think the 1st reply on this thread (about pH buffers)...
IMO, I wouldn't use them. It causes huge swings in the pH levels of the tank, which isn't good. Clearly, something is happening to drop the pH levels. Adding a pH buffer to the tank will yes, raise your pH, but then it's just going to drop again. I'd look at your rock (base and live), is it cooked+cured? Test the pH of your top-off water (which should be RO/DI anyway). Also has your pH always been that low? Look at your salt mix. Is the brand "Top Fin" (from Petsmart). If it is, just throw it out now - that stuff is nothing but problems in my experience. Avoid at all costs the use of pH buffers - you shouldn't raise the pH more than 0.2 in 24 hours anyway, so it's going to take you a long time to bring it up - and if something is happening to lower it anyway, you're just going to create big swings in the pH, which is terrible for tanks (especially for your RBTA). Also, do some big water changes (depending on your live rock situation and length of time you've had this set up). I'd be doing like 20% every 2 days or so to bring those nitrates/nitrites down. And as mentioned above, test the alkalinity.

[mohammadali]

i dont have liverock in my main i put all the liverock in breeding tank till the percula lay eggs
ill bring all the liverock in main tank

[ScubaSteve]

This is in regards to I think the 1st reply on this thread (about pH buffers)...
IMO, I wouldn't use them. It causes huge swings in the pH levels of the tank, which isn't good. Clearly, something is happening to drop the pH levels. Adding a pH buffer to the tank will yes, raise your pH, but then it's just going to drop again. I'd look at your rock (base and live), is it cooked+cured? Test the pH of your top-off water (which should be RO/DI anyway). Also has your pH always been that low? Look at your salt mix. Is the brand "Top Fin" (from Petsmart). If it is, just throw it out now - that stuff is nothing but problems in my experience. Avoid at all costs the use of pH buffers - you shouldn't raise the pH more than 0.2 in 24 hours anyway, so it's going to take you a long time to bring it up - and if something is happening to lower it anyway, you're just going to create big swings in the pH, which is terrible for tanks (especially for your RBTA). Also, do some big water changes (depending on your live rock situation and length of time you've had this set up). I'd be doing like 20% every 2 days or so to bring those nitrates/nitrites down. And as mentioned above, test the alkalinity.

Sorry rag on you but I've got to disagree with you on the buffers, man. While I personally don't normally advocate buffers as there are much more effective ways to stabilize pH, this is a situation where it might be necessary to pull levels back into the safe zone. pH 7.4 is about the point where corals start to drop like flies. A buffer can cause a big swing... if you dump a whole bunch in. If you take it slow (ie. 0.2/ day) you'll be fine (hence why I suggested talking to Jon as he's a pro with buffers). Once you've reached the pH the buffer works at and only need to make small additions everyday, they actually work amazingly well for holding the pH steady; especially for someone who has no other way of controlling the calc, alk and pH (kalkwasser, 2-part, calc reactor, etc.). My assessment of the situation tells me that suggesting the more complicated means of fixing pH isn't going to do a lot of good for this reefkeeper.

I agree with the water changes. Lots of them. You have no liverock in there to denitrify and that alone is probably a major contributor to the goings on of that tank. If you've been doing fairly frequent water changes, they're probably not doing a whole lot for your pH, in which case you should consider some way or rectifying the problem... a buffer would be the bare minimum. Either it's a crappy salt or you've got a more fundamental issue at hand (ie. poor ventilation of the room, low oxygen exchange at the water surface, etc.)

[mohammadali]

i changed about 5g water and i added some kh buffer in the 5g water i raised the salinity higher to 1.27 so far my cleaner shrimp is doing good
ill go to jl tomorrow ask john about this problem

[monocus]

take a sample of water in or if your in the area bring me a sample and i'll do some tests with my checkers.it looks like you have sponge on your coral

[monocus]

it also looks like you have diatoms on your sand bed-how long has the setup being running

[FragIt Dan]

This is in regards to I think the 1st reply on this thread (about pH buffers)...
IMO, I wouldn't use them...

I would have to partially agree with ScubaSteve, it is clear there is a lack of understanding on the relationship between buffers, dKh, alkalinity and pH (no offence jords, it's just some well intentioned but perhaps ill advised advice). Carbonates, dKh, alkalinity and buffers ALL refer to the same thing with respect to marine aquariums, and they are essential to a healthy tank (FOWRL or reef). Stoney corals consume your buffer (carbonates) to combine them with calcium to produce calcium carbonate, the white stoney part of the coral left over after it dies. As your levels of carbonates in your tank falls, your tank loses it's ability to resist changes in pH. IME dKh values above ~6 degrees are sufficient to resist damaging shifts in pH, although keeping values above 8 will keep your corals much happier. In a FOWLR tank, water changes replenish the small amount of carbonates that are consumed, but less so in reef tanks. The only thing that has any significant effect on pulling pH away from it's natural resting point is CO2, either from the air, or respiration from metabolic processes in your tank. The natural resting point (I think this is referred to as pK), is controlled by the type of buffer you use. In marine tanks we are essentially restricted to a mix of carbonates and bicarbonates which will give a resting pH point in most tanks of ~8-8.3. If you are in a particularly polluted area with elevated CO2, you may be observing slightly lower resting pH, perhaps ranging from 7.8-8.1, than if your tank were elsewhere (ie ocean acidification). In this situation you could use a pH 'up' buffer, which contains borates. These have a higher pK (natural resting point for pH) and so will counteract the elevated ambient CO2 levels. I am just skimming the surface with respect to the relationship between buffers and pH, there is a lot more to it, but that should give you enough to hopefully make some informed decisions as to the use of buffers in your aquarium. Oh, and no need to buy buffers, just look up DIY dKh, it is essentially just arm and hammer baking soda but sold at 10x the price. I have been buying it from Costco in bulk for years and have 5 tanks of happy sps (~400G total).

[mohammadali]

can you post a pic of the soda your using ?

[FragIt Dan]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/4ugyjaje.jpg

DIY instructions are readily available but I can give a quick Coles notes here (apologies for hijacking the thread). You can use this stuff straight, but personally I prefer to balance my buffer before I add it (it will do this on it's own in the tank but will cause a pH shift while doing so). I do this by baking some of the baking soda in the oven at 400f for about an hour (this converts the bicarbonate to carbonate). Then I add 1 part of the baked stuff to water and mix until dissolved, then 7 parts of the non-baked stuff and mix until it is mostly dissolved. If you add in the opposite order it will be fine but harder to dissolve. You will get a saturated solution using about 100g total (~15g baked+85g nonbaked) for every litre of water (there will actually be a bit of powder leftover on the bottom that will not dissolve so shake before each time you add to your tank). I use RODI water but you can get distilled water from a pharmacy, or tap water should be fine too. A 500g box makes up about 5l, with a total cost of a couple of bucks (as compared to $100+ in the stores). This is not a 'close match' to store bought stuff, it is EXACTLY what the stores are selling you, the exception being the pH 'up' versions that have borates added, and some companies vary the ratios around the 7:1, but this matters little as your the naturally occurring chemical reactions in your tank establish an equilibrium between carbonates, bicarbonates and CO2, so varying the ratios you add will have no long term effect (thus you could add straight baking soda, but the short term pH shift will be a bit more stressful for your critters). Short term effect is a shift in pH of a few of tenths for a few hours. This is the only buffer I have used for several years, I'll let you be the judge on whether or not it works...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/18/bejaguje.jpg

[ScubaSteve]

I used the same method for years. Works like a charm. If you can find calcium chloride (I might Even have some you can have) you can dose calcium the same way. This is called 2 part dosing. Dan's recipe is nice in that it buffers the pH, where using the components on their own can cause small pH swings up or down, depending on how much you use. I eventually gave up on two part and just started putting kalkwasser (pickling lime) into my ATO water bucket because I'm so busy I was never able to added the 2 part reliably on a daily basis.

This is a helpful tool for figuring out the amounts of each component you need for two part dosing: http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html