Which Return Pump for basement sump?

[Carandiru]

I'm in the process of plumbing a basement sump and I've done a lot of looking around for a decent return pump.
Key things I'm looking for are:

Energy Effiecent
At Least 11ft of Head Pressure
More GPH the better
Not too expensive


I've narrowed my selection down to:

REEFLO BLOWHOLE BH1100 http://www.incredibleaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201_189&products_id=2281
$174.99

WATER BLASTER HY 7000
http://www.incredibleaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201_190_253&products_id=2294
$249.99

RLSS Controllable Waveline DC 10000 Pump
http://reefsupplycanada.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=reef-supply-canada&item=59357
$329.00 + 20.00 shipping

I really like the Waveline DC due to it's efficiency and being not much more than the waterblaster hy 7000 you get a lot more GPH. The only thing is the Coravue Waterblaster comes with a 3 year warranty vs only 1 year for the Waveline DC. The blowhole is energy efficient too but external only.

So what do you guys think? I've had a look at all different types of pumps and these three seem to be the most energy efficient of all of them - or am I missing some? Really don't want to spend more than $350.00 on a return pump as there is other stuff I would like to budget for and buy for the whole setup.

[reefermadness]

you need a pressure rated pump. Those last two pumps would probably not make it by the time you factor in you plumbing.....or you might get a trickle.

The reeflo blowhole pumps look promising......are they a new product? I like the price point and they sound good.

Personally Im using a gen x mak4 return pump from my basement sump. It has worked great now for 3 years....I havent even taken it off line to clean it once.

[daplatapus]

I've got a basement sump, and pushing probably close to 12'-14' of head. I looked into those blowhole pumps and there doesn't seem to be very good reviews on them. I ran a Laguna pond pump on mine for a year and it was a really good little pump but took a fairly large foot print in my sump. I've since switched over to an external Reeflo Hammerhead. It was a bit much for my 77 gallon display so got the Barracuda impeller and it's just right. When I get my 210 up and running I'll put the bigger impeller back in.

I have no experience with the WATER BLASTER HY 7000 so no comment there.
The Waveline pump came out after I got my Reeflo. But from what I've seen and my conversations with the manufacturer, it'll do the job and will probably be my next pump. I know Grizz is running a couple of them and so is ... hmmm I don't remember who, but I know someone else is
Hopefully they'll pipe in here.

[reefermadness]

I dont think you will find anybody running a waterblaster 7000 from a basement sump up a floor. MAX HEAD is 12'

Like I said a pressure rated pump needed. Sure you can use a large internal pump that is capable but consider the heat it will add and they are not as efficient at pushing water under pressure.

[daplatapus]

Yup, agreed. The Waveline can be either in-line or submersible, and if I'm not mistaken, can be speed controlled by an Apex or similar controller. Not sure how much or if any tweeking is necessary, but I've heard it can be done.

Just an FYI here's the flow chart for the DC 10000. You're going to be getting 1500-1700 gph or so if I extrapolated that properly. I'd probably reduce that by another 10-15% depending on piping and what not.
http://www.rlss.ca/#!dc-pump/vstc3=dc10000

[reefermadness]

seems like the waveline handles pressure pretty good. The bubble blaster not so much.

thank for the correction on that one.

[sphelps]

I run two Waveline 10000s, both mine leaked slightly when I had them external so I've moved them internally. Seem like decent pumps so far but I'm not convinced on the flow rate, I have two running in parallel with minimal head pressure and it just doesn't seem like as much as you might expect considering they are rated at 2600gph each, still working on a way to measure what I'm getting cause I am curious.

Also there is no advanced controller yet AFAIK, the development of one has just been mentioned in some reviews. They are pretty quite, no real vibration just a bit of a motor hum. They ramp up slowly when turned on and the controller remembers your setting if shut off, both very nice features.

[lastlight]

still working on a way to measure what I'm getting cause I am curious.

I think GHL came out with sensors but if I'm remembering right they only went to 2000gph.

[sphelps]

I think GHL came out with sensors but if I'm remembering right they only went to 2000gph.

Yeah not much good for me really. Typically you can get good estimate on the flow rate buy timing how long it takes your sump to catch up after a shut down provided you know the volume of back flow but these pumps ramp up slowly. Another option is to drain your overflow and then shut your drain valves timing how long it take to full the overflow box but my pumps are in my overflow box so that doesn't work for me either.

I was looking at that pump curve previously posted, it really makes no sense to me. The slope shouldn't increase with more head pressure and it's apparently only capable of 5m of head yet the chart suggest it still do more than half it's rated flow rate at it's max head pressure. Maybe it's not showing up right on my browser, this is what I see
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/DC10000.jpg

This is what a typical pump curve looks like
http://www.laing.de/articles/Image/content/Pump-curve-DDC.jpg

[reefermadness]

Yes....it is strange that at the max head height it is still doing over half the flow??? I thought the same thing.

[sphelps]

Must be a mistake in the graph, if you draw a line from 5m and 0l/h to the point in the line where the slope changes you'll probably get closer to the right answer.

This is probably closer to reality
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/DC100001.jpg

[Carandiru]

Well that knocks it down to 2 pumps. Blowhole will save a little cash and I was planning on drilling the 55 gallon Im using for a sump and the 90 gallon display tank upstairs (currently in use - I know I've got brass balls).

I've seen some reviews of the blowhole saying it's a great pump - some of the early prototypes having a problem with heat though. That is apparently corrected with the final release model.

The Waveline is a really nice pressure rated pump, but more than I wanted to spend honestly - to bad the 5000 model wasn't enough only max 10ft of head.

I'll probably go with the Blowhole. What would you do?

[mike31154]

Panworld NH-150PS would be another good candidate for pushing water from basement. It is a pressure biased pump. I have one for future build and purchased the Panworld for that purpose. Although I've only run it briefly to check it out, seems like a solid product & reviews I"ve seen on them are generally positive. I've seen some Panworld DC voltage pumps as well, but not sure they're controllable as the Waveline is & what I've found is only smaller models, probably insufficient to lift the water from basement up one floor.

I also have a Poseidon(Velocity)PS4 which I may use during the winter since they are known to add some heat to the water they push. It's not as strong as the Panworld & flow biased as opposed to pressure biased, but according to the chart, it should be enough to lift sufficient flow from the basement. They are also among the most quiet external pumps available.

[RDNanoGuy]

You can't go wrong with a GenX pcx-40 (Mak 4). Mine pushes water up over 12' from my basement sump with no problems. Plus they're cheap enuff you could buy two for the price of the DC pump and keep one as a spare! It's pretty efficient too. Mine draws 122w at full load. Don't forget to plus size your return plumbing right after the pump outlet. This will reduce the pressure loss and give you more flow. I use 1 1/2" to the upstairs.

[Carandiru]

Cheers man just found out my sump has panes of all tempered glass so I have to go with a submersible pump. That leaves the Waveline. Gonna just pay for it.

[chatyak]

I run two Waveline 10000s, both mine leaked slightly when I had them external so I've moved them internally. Seem like decent pumps so far but I'm not convinced on the flow rate, I have two running in parallel with minimal head pressure and it just doesn't seem like as much as you might expect considering they are rated at 2600gph each, still working on a way to measure what I'm getting cause I am curious.

Also there is no advanced controller yet AFAIK, the development of one has just been mentioned in some reviews. They are pretty quite, no real vibration just a bit of a motor hum. They ramp up slowly when turned on and the controller remembers your setting if shut off, both very nice features.

I heard the leak is caused by using the wrong o-ring or seal. Apparently a different "orange" one is needed from RLSS if being used externally. It's not included for some reason..

[Aqua-Digital]

I am running a waterblaster 7000 @ 11ft head from the basement and it is kicking out about 150gph.

Time will tell on its longevity.

[FragIt Dan]

Cheers man just found out my sump has panes of all tempered glass so I have to go with a submersible pump. That leaves the Waveline. Gonna just pay for it.

Perhaps the following rumor will affect your decision?

I have heard there will be a new DC12000 (and DC6000) released soon. Originally it was scheduled for release in late march, however it has been delayed until late April. The new pump is supposed to remedy both the leaking o-ring issues as well as the thread mismatch issue. The first batch in late April (if they don't have further delays) will have a standard controller available similar to the existing one; however there will be a new controller/interface released a few months later that will have Apex Aquacontroller (and possibly other controller) bi-directional communications via USB (NOT RJ45). This means you will be able to control the speed of the pump via aftermarket hardware without the need for a VDM module, but even better you will be able to view pump RPM, and possibly temp and other diagnostics via your AquaController (and other?) interface and thus setup alarms to alert you if there are issues. The new WaveLine controller/interface will be available as a separate purchase and will be readily swapped out on the DC12000 but not on earlier generation pumps (ie you won't be able to make your DC10000 controllable via an Apex or other external unit).

There is talk of a 'relatively easy' hack on the DC10000 that will make it 0-10v controllable, but you can do your own research on that :).

To my knowledge this information has not been officially released by Waveline so treat it as rumor. Also, I don't sell, represent or own any of these pumps, I am just very interested in what they are doing.

I plan on running a pair of them as return pumps, one on each side of my tank. I will run them anti-sync with around a 30 second ramp from 20-80% and back down to 20%, the idea being to create surge while maintaining redundant return pumps and eliminate or reduce the need for circ pumps. One note of cuation though, they have a 30 second ramp time built in to the on board controller for slow startup, so you can't run them to generate a wave as they will auto ramp up slowly on their own.

As an aside, you can look up Diablo DC pumps. The design seems to be identical and I suspect the flow graphs to be the same as well.

Dan

[FragIt Dan]

DC20000 too! Blog post regarding gen2 RLSS pumps: http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/blog/waveline-dc-pumps/


Dan