I Suck at SPS. Help please. :(

[Enigma]

My monti cap has completely browned out. My tricoloured valida has completely bleached out (these two corals sit side by side . . . too much light for the valida but not enough for the monti??? how does that happen?). My red convexa is bleached out and may have stn'd (I can't really tell). My pink birdsnest is growing nicely but is a touch on the brown side (sits on the other side of the bleached valida from the birdsnest). My green birdsnest is growing like crazing, but is partly browned and partly bleached (not sure how that actually happens!).

And, I'm so lame, that on top of all of that I succumbed to temptation and bought a pretty pink monti cap today. I just couldn't walk away from it with the price I was offered (shopping with my bestie, who we'll call "Double-D," seems to have advantages).

*sigh* Yes. I'm going to take photos and get them uploaded (of the corals, NOT my bestie). I'm just a little embarrassed about the state of them, especially since a couple of them were doing really well . . . then I switched lights . . . then I treated with Chemiclean . . . and I've done a couple of mild "blackouts" where I turned my lights off for three days.

:cry:

[wickedfrags]

is this in the 40G you describe in your signature?

tell us about how you maintain your calcium and alkalinity?

and your protein skimmer and and lighting.

we will just assume you are using RO/DI if you are migrating to SPS :)

[Aquattro]

Switched lights, dumped in toxins, then turn lights out, then back on, not a good recipe for stable SPS :)
What lights went, which replaced them? Running carbon? I believe you do...water change schedule? Length of time between these events above?

[Enigma]

Pics (for positioning info mostly):

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/IMG-20121027-00227.jpg

Sorry. Crummy photo as the lights are ramping down. The SPS are on the frag rack on the back wall. There is another frag rack that holds green birdsnest frags in the opposite corner of the tank.

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/IMG-20121027-00231.jpg

A bit of a zoomed in shot. Left to right: green bird, pink bird, valida, convexa, monti cap. The valida and convexa are a couple of inches apart front to back, so they're not quite as close to each other as they look in the photo.

Lovely pink monti that I don't want to kill . . .

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/IMG-20121027-00230.jpg

[whatcaneyedo]

Maturity, stability, optimal chemistry, surging flow, and intense light. If any one of those does not exist you can expect SPS to brown, bleach or die.

[Enigma]

Orginal lighting:
4x36" T5s, a couple of inches above the tank. ATi bulbs. 2-Blue+, 1-Coral+, 1-Purple+
12 hour light cycle (SPS required more light than a shorter cycle allowed)

New lighting:
2xSol Blues, 12" Above tank. Blue and Royal Blue at 25%, White at 18%. Lights ramp over the course of 2 hours. Blue and Royal Blue are on four ten hours, white for eight hours. This includes the ramping time.

[Enigma]

Oh . . . the Convexa has *never* done well in this tank. The birds and monti did very well, while the valida did okay (nice polyp extension but washed out colour).

All this changed the day I added the Sols: they were 11" at first, with the same light cycle, at 40%. Cyano exploded. Chemiclean and blackouts followed.

[Enigma]

Parameters (and yes, this is for my 40B). I dose for calcium and alkalinity manually, twice a week. I test my parameters on Sunday (and those are in my signature), but I don't dose until Monday (and Thursday). Salinity is usually at 1.026. Magnesium is dosed when it reaches around 1350. RO/DI is used.

I use Kent carbon (not a new batch: have been using it for months) and ROWAphos in fluid reactors (ROWA just changed when everything went down the toilet). Skimmer is an SWC 120 cone (which has been off since all of this started, due to insane microbubbles). I have a new biopellet reactor, but that isn't online yet.

The green bird and monti have been doing well in this system since I switched tanks three months ago. The pink bird has been in it for around 2 months. The valida and convexa were added the same time as the pink birdsnest.

[Enigma]

Oops. Missed water changes. Water changes of approximately 10% of the total system volume (55 gallons) are done once a week.

Edit: I should also add the my hammer coral is not happy. All of my other corals (LPS and softies) and doing as well as they were before, and most of them are doing very, very nicely. The last couple of weeks have just hammered my SPS. This system has never been great for them. It has been a real challenge to balance their needs and the needs of my LPS. My contest entry tank is being designed more as an SPS tank.

At this point, I don't have any concerns about either of my birdsnest corals dying. If I don't mess with them I'm sure they'll come around. I'm worried about my completely browned out monti cap (which is a lovely green with purple rim), but I hope it will pull though. I'm not optimistic about the condition of my valida (completely bleached) or convexa (bleached and STN?).

[Enigma]

Another thought about the lights . . . the T5s were placed to the back of the tank, the Sols are centered over the tank. They're the new Sols: 70 degree optics on the corners with 40 degree optics on the others. There is a lot of light that spills onto the floor around the tank.

[canadianbudz604]

i wanna follow along on this one, im a newb at sps. however i havent had one bleach out or brown out yet

[daniella3d]

I think your corals are starving. You should try zeovit amino acids and coral vitalizer, a little drop each day. That really revived the color of my coral.

Your calcium is too low.

I used Chemiclean a few times without any effect on my corals, SPS or LPS or soft or even the gorgone. The only thing that hapened was that one of my photosynthetic sponge in my nano went white and I thought it would die but it has recovered since, fortunately. I will never use Chemiclean in that aquarium again because that sponge is precious to me (unavailable for sale) and I don't want to lose it but none of my SPS were affected. Photosynthetic sponges are often in symbiose with type of cyanobacteria and thus some sponge may be affected by Chemiclean by losing their symbiotic partner.

I suspect the corals need acclimatation to the new light and they are just plain starving.

[Enigma]

You must be reading my mind, Daniella.

I realized, around 15 minutes ago, that I haven't fed my SPS in weeks! I just dosed Pohl's Coral Vitalizer, Fuel, and Microvert. In trying to choke out the cyano bloom (which has been ongoing since August) and algae, I seriously reduced my SPS feedings, and then quit altogether.

[molotov]

it kinda sounds to me like you dose a lot of things. I guess you're trying to beat your cyano problem. I've read that you shouldn't dose anything in your tank you can't test for.

I've also noticed a lot of the tank of the month people on reef central feed don't feed their corals at all. Check out the recent TOTM on RC.

I'm a total newb and I don't do much with my tank and everything is growing beyond my expectations.

Are you running GFO, to combat your algea problem? Perhaps Cheato to help reduce phosphates? Also I don't even need to ask as I'm sure you're using RO/DI.

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't put anything in my tank except food for the fish. I also beat a nasty GH algea problem with regular water changes GFO, Cheato and patience. I find that just keeping it simple goes a long way.

I'm sure I haven't said stuff you don't already know. It's just nice sometimes to be reminded.

[Enigma]

I don't dose anything that I can't test for, with the exception of the Chemiclean (the ingediants of which are a closely guarded secret). Even the food I add to the system can be tested in a way: through testing the biproducts of it (nitrate and phosphate).

In an ULNS (which this system has sucessfully now become, and this has me very pleased), it is important to feed SPS. To give you an example of how low nutrient this sytem is, I haven't had to clean the glass in nearly two weeks. There is zero algae in this tank (though there is still a little bit of cyano).

[daniella3d]

Also I have noticed that feeding my corals with zeovit amino acid and coral vitalizer does not make the cyano worse. The best way to get rid of cyano is to syphon it out on a very regular basis. It just disapear with time.

I think with a ULN it is a must to feed. I don't think anyone with a zeovit tank with ULN are not feeding their corals or they would just have poor growth. Corals need more than just light.

It is also normal with a ULN to have pale corals in color. Zooxanthellea die and corals need feeding.

Chemiclean is an oxidant. It does not contain antibiotics. It will get rid of the dissolved organics in the tank, and that's what cyano feed on. I use it in my main tank a few times per year just to help to clean extra dissolved organics and get rid of it. I always use less than recommanded as it makes the skimmer go wild.


I don't dose anything that I can't test for, with the exception of the Chemiclean (the ingediants of which are a closely guarded secret). Even the food I add to the system can be tested in a way: through testing the biproducts of it (nitrate and phosphate).

In an ULNS (which this system has sucessfully now become, and this has me very pleased), it is important to feed SPS. To give you an example of how low nutrient this sytem is, I haven't had to clean the glass in nearly two weeks. There is zero algae in this tank (though there is still a little bit of cyano).

[Aquattro]

I don't feed my corals regularly in that while I use Zeovit, I often forget to add the drops for months at a time. If you've got fish, you feed the corals. They really like light too, and at the levels you're running the SOL, they may be starving for light.

[Aquattro]

and patience.

And you call yourself a newb. You already know the secret. :)

[Aquattro]

I think with a ULN it is a must to feed. I don't think anyone with a zeovit tank with ULN are not feeding their corals or they would just have poor growth. Corals need more than just light.



This is where it gets tough online. I completely disagree with this. So now what is Shelley supposed to think? I don't feed, I've been throwing frags out the window stuff is growing so fast.
Sufficient light, feed the fish, regular water changes and then stand back and watch them grow!

[camaro7019]

Its your ai sols, they are not on bright enough, i had this problem with mine, i switched from 2 150 watt metal halides to 2 ai sol's and i started them at 50% on blue royal and white 12" from water, i started getting rapid tissue necrosis on my main acropora colony, i thought maybe it was to much light, but then i noticed my green star polyps were going brown, i still thought too much light but i thought na cant be, so i kicked them up to 80% guess what, it was the light lol my green starts are growing so fast, my sps are growing like crazy!!! turn your lights up man, atleast to 50-60%

[Aquattro]

Its your ai sols, they are not on bright enough

Ya, I gotta agree with that. While that might have been a good starting value, I would of ramped those up a bit every few days until you got to at least 60% range.
Mine are 6 inches off the water and 100/100/85 and we've all been discussing how that maybe isn't enough light to keep the colors where they were.

[Enigma]

This is where it gets tough online. I completely disagree with this. So now what is Shelley supposed to think? I don't feed, I've been throwing frags out the window stuff is growing so fast.
Sufficient light, feed the fish, regular water changes and then stand back and watch them grow!

I've really cut back on feeding my fish, too. I've gone from three frozen cubes a day (lots of variety) to two frozen cubes every two days (mysis and cyclopeeze). The fish and most coral are still doing very well. Some stuff looks better than ever (but not the SPS).

My line of thinking is certainly inline with Daniella's, but my experience is limited.

That in a handful of weeks I've gone from needing to clean the glass daily, and having an army of stomatella snails, to not needing to clean my glass (or powerheads, or overflow, . . . ) and not having a single stomatella snail visible, leads me to conclude that feeding the SPS could prove to be beneficial. Had the change been gradual I may not feel the same. While maybe not required under optimal circumstances, I'm certainly not dealing with optimum circumstances.

[Enigma]

Its your ai sols, they are not on bright enough, i had this problem with mine, i switched from 2 150 watt metal halides to 2 ai sol's and i started them at 50% on blue royal and white 12" from water, i started getting rapid tissue necrosis on my main acropora colony, i thought maybe it was to much light, but then i noticed my green star polyps were going brown, i still thought too much light but i thought na cant be, so i kicked them up to 80% guess what, it was the light lol my green starts are growing so fast, my sps are growing like crazy!!! turn your lights up man, atleast to 50-60%

Ya, I gotta agree with that. While that might have been a good starting value, I would of ramped those up a bit every few days until you got to at least 60% range.
Mine are 6 inches off the water and 100/100/85 and we've all been discussing how that maybe isn't enough light to keep the colors where they were.


That is so counter intuitive when I've got bleached corals! I've asked for advice, so I'll do it.

Can I do 1% per day?

[Aquattro]

I don't have experience going from T5 to the Sols, but I started my sols at 65/65/65 and went to 100/100/85 over 7 or 8 days. You could probably do 5% every couple of days.
As for feeding, sure, maybe it helps fine tune corals, I don't think so, but really, until you've got the basic fish food light combo worked out, i wouldn't be adding any extras to the soup.
Simply up the feeding of the fish a bit. So what if you get a bit of algae on your glass every couple days, takes 10 seconds to wipe with a mag float.

[Aquattro]

That is so counter intuitive when I've got bleached corals! I've asked for advice, so I'll do it.

Can I do 1% per day?

We don't know they're bleached from too much light, and in fact, I'm pretty sure you could ramp those suckers up to 200% across the board and not bleach SPS. Sure, too much too quickly can bleach them, but I'm guessing they've just faded from lack of light. If you leave an acro in an unlit tank for 2 weeks, you're going to get a white coral.

[Aquattro]

All this talk of light has me playing with mine now :) Cranked white up to 90%.

[Enigma]

We don't know they're bleached from too much light, and in fact, I'm pretty sure you could ramp those suckers up to 200% across the board and not bleach SPS. Sure, too much too quickly can bleach them, but I'm guessing they've just faded from lack of light. If you leave an acro in an unlit tank for 2 weeks, you're going to get a white coral.

I did not know that. It totally makes sense now, but I just hadn't thought about it that way.

How about my green birdsnest? The polyps are green, and most of the branches are its normal tan/brown colour, but a few branches are white.

I've cranked the whites up to 25 and the blues and royal blues up to 30.

[Aquattro]

The birdsnest is maybe just tougher, in a slightly better spot, etc, who knows. My GBN is solid bright green, about mid level in tank, so let's say 15 inches from the light.
Your current levels are somewhere around my mid sunrise, which is rather dim. Mine are also closer to the water. Get them up to 75/75/60 over the next 10 days or so and re-evaluate. Oh, and my full mid day is about 7 hours...

[molotov]

All this talk of light has me playing with mine now :) Cranked white up to 90%.

HAHA......that's to funny. I'm now doing the same thing.:mrgreen:

[don.ald]

I went from T5 lighting to sol.
I started at like 30 and thought it was kinda ridiculously low. I bumped them up to 60/95/95 over a three week period, not daily but every week bumped them a whack!
OH, I also continued to run four of my six T5s alongside of the sol units.

[Enigma]

:lol: You guys!

I'm not going to have any sand bed left in a week with all of the siphoning I'm going to have to do to get rid of the cyano at higher lighting levels! I would say the health of the corals is more important than the sand, though.

[Aquattro]

:lol: You guys!

I'm not going to have any sand bed left in a week with all of the siphoning I'm going to have to do to get rid of the cyano at higher lighting levels! I would say the health of the corals is more important than the sand, though.

Well, the cyano is not a result of the light. I have no cyano, my lights are cranked. The cyano is something else that is feeding on something in the tank. So you siphon it and manage nutrients until it out consumes itself, and then it dies off. Adding things like chemiclean is just a band-aid for people that don't have the patience to fix it properly. Sure, it looks like crap for a while, but you come out the other end of the battle with a better tank and more experience in the hobby. Nothing good happens fast is a rule right across the board...removing cyano overnight is not a good thing. Take more of a holistic approach and accept that some months the take will rock, some months, not so much. Just deal with it in it's proper time frame and enjoy the process.

[Aquattro]

Actually, I do have some green cyano type crud growing these days, probably a result of the clove polyp die-off. I turkey baste it away and don't give it a second thought. It'll clear up on it's own with my regular maintenance routine.

[don.ald]

I fought cyno ... Refused to use chemiclean the LFS subscribed.
Took a few weeks though. Basted rocks daily, did 5% water change daily, hung an aqua clear on the tank and rinsed the sponge daily.
Stopped daily feedings and fed every second day, sparingly.
I also stopped all those zeo additives, went back to the basics...keeping it simple which includes no pellets or quick fixes.
I use carbon passively that's all.
:biggrin:

[Aquattro]

Shelley, I'm right in the middle of setting up a 50g custom breeder tank for frags. It's probably very close to your tank. I'm going to have 400w radium(s) over it, but if I were going to use the Sols, I would set them at 100% all three colors at 12 inches off water line. Too white for my liking on the 180, which is why i only have it at 90 there. Not sure what else you have in the tank, but SPS can take pretty much whatever you throw at them. I have 2 large euphyllia in my tank and they also love the light and are thriving. No direct feeding on them either.

[Enigma]

Nothing good happens fast is a rule right across the board...removing cyano overnight is not a good thing. Take more of a holistic approach and accept that some months the take will rock, some months, not so much. Just deal with it in it's proper time frame and enjoy the process.

Brad, I've been working on eradicating the cyano since August. I thought I was finally winning the war, but when I added the Sols it exploded over the course of four hours. It was shocking. I wish I had taken video of it (or time lapse photos), as what happened seems to be unprecedented. Even I scarcely believe what I witnessed.

I used the Chemiclean after that, and I believe quite firmly that it was the right choice for me. It didn't eradicate the cyano, but it knocked it back so that it is much more manageable again. Frankly, I wish I had done it much sooner than I did. I had the Chemiclean for weeks before I actually used it.

It only really grows/comes back when the whites are on. The blues and royal blues don't seem to do much for it. The whites aren't on yet, and there isn't a speck of it in my tank. By the time the whites go off, the sand around my plate coral will have noticeable cyano (not plague proportions, but it'll be there).

Despite a couple of lingering issues . . . I think my tank looks pretty amazing. :) I get a lot of satisfaction from it, and I can honestly say that I have never felt so good about something that I've created. I'm generally really optimistic about it . . . I'm just having one of those "moments."

[Aquattro]

Oh ya, no doubt the change in lights was a catalyst, but not the source or everyone with LED would have cyano. It feeds on nutrients, so as long as you manage what goes in, the nutrient it's using will be a limiting factor and once it's consumed, the slime will disappear. I know it's tough, and I've never had to have the long battles, but I would still never add chemi clean, primarily because they won't tell you what's in it. I won't add mystery juice to my tank just on principle :)
Keep battling, turn the lights up, and one day you'll have forgotten that you even dealt with cyano. With the lights up, the corals will start competing for nutrients, which will help the battle.

[Enigma]

Not sure what else you have in the tank, but SPS can take pretty much whatever you throw at them.

This tank is mostly softies and LPS. It has been incredibly challenging to balance the needs of all of the coral in the tank. Softies and LPS do very well, SPS were doing alright. I really can't do both in this system with my minimal-ish scape, as there just aren't enough places to hide more sensitive corals from the light or the flow.

My NC24 (which is now officially cycling) has crazy flow and light, but I was able to work some shaded and lower flow spots into the scape. I'm hoping to start moving my SPS to that system in a month. I think it will work well aesthetically, but also provide very good conditions for them. I just really don't want anything to die before then.

[Enigma]

Keep battling, turn the lights up, and one day you'll have forgotten that you even dealt with cyano. With the lights up, the corals will start competing for nutrients, which will help the battle.

It will be perfect by January. I know this because I'm buying myself a custom Concept tank for my 40th in February. This tank will be perfect, then I'll upgrade, and then it will go to crap again. I know this because I've already been through this once before.

At least I'm prepared. ;)

[Aquattro]

Or you could sell the pesky soft stuff and buy more SPS. Ok, I'm biased :)

[Aquattro]

. This tank will be perfect, then I'll upgrade, and then it will go to crap again. I know this because I've already been through this once before.

At least I'm prepared. ;)

I didn't hit perfect UNTIL I upgraded, so there is hope :)

[Enigma]

Oh ya, no doubt the change in lights was a catalyst, but not the source or everyone with LED would have cyano. It feeds on nutrients, so as long as you manage what goes in, the nutrient it's using will be a limiting factor and once it's consumed, the slime will disappear.

Oh, I don't think the Sols are causing, but rather that they assisted in providing an optimal environment for it. I've got to be close to the end of this. The nutrients have been cut down so far that there can't be much left for it to consume.

[Enigma]

Or you could sell the pesky soft stuff and buy more SPS. Ok, I'm biased :)

No way! I love my soft stuff. :lol: And, my little guy loves to watch them eat. They really captivate him and stimulate his interest in aquatics. The plate I purchased a while back is finally eating and he's told everyone at daycare about it. The NC24 will have some soft stuff, but only what will thrive under optimal conditions for the SPS. :)

[Aquattro]

No way! I love my soft stuff. :lol: And, my little guy loves to watch them eat.

fine, I guess that's a good reason -lol

[camaro7019]

enigma, put your ai sols at 50/50/50 accross the board, 30 is still to low, your sps and even lps will hurt from it being so low start at 50% then slowly ramp 5-10% weekly, i skipped the weekly part and went from 50 - 80 in a week then to 100 2 days later im impatient haha! :) nothing died nothing bleached or was hurt they all flourish!! trust me 50/50/50 or even 60//60/50white up to you but your lights are still to low

[Enigma]

enigma, put your ai sols at 50/50/50 accross the board, 30 is still to low, your sps and even lps will hurt from it being so low start at 50% then slowly ramp 5-10% weekly, i skipped the weekly part and went from 50 - 80 in a week then to 100 2 days later im impatient haha! :) nothing died nothing bleached or was hurt they all flourish!! trust me 50/50/50 or even 60//60/50white up to you but your lights are still to low

I did 35/35/30 (white) for most of the day today. Nothing but my plate looks worse. Hammer coral looks the same. Other lps and softies may look a touch better (but they looked good to begin with). No change in SPS.

I think I can do 40/40/35 tomorrow without having a complete psychological melt down. If nothing implodes/explodes/melts/whatnot then I'll bump it up again by 5% the following day. I'm typically very cautious with this system, so I just don't think I can double the light in a day.

[Aquattro]

I'd leave it there for a couple days before bumping up. No rush, nothing good is going to happen overnight, and not doing anything isn't likely to be detrimental either. Spread it out over 10 - 14 days.

[subman]

I fought cyano for months. It cleared up when I stopped feeding frozen foods. I feed strictly flake /pellet now and use the frozen as a treat (once every couple weeks at most), IMHO frozen foods is EVIL:twised:

[Enigma]

I'd leave it there for a couple days before bumping up. No rush, nothing good is going to happen overnight, and not doing anything isn't likely to be detrimental either. Spread it out over 10 - 14 days.

Will do.

I fought cyano for months. It cleared up when I stopped feeding frozen foods. I feed strictly flake /pellet now and use the frozen as a treat (once every couple weeks at most), IMHO frozen foods is EVIL:twised:

The bad news is that my Banghii Cardinal, Scooter Dragonet, and Twin Spot Goby only eat frozen. I would love to cut out frozen so I could go back to my automatic feeder, but those three just won't be swayed from their meaty morsels.

The great news is that I've got two tough to feed fish (dragonet and goby) who eagerly chase and pluck food out of the water column. :) I can maybe cut back a bit more on it, keep the pellet eaters (clowns and fox face) fed and happy with pellets, and hopefully reduce the competition for the frozen so I can feed less of it.

[subman]

yeah that's always the problem...darn finicky fishes!!