just a FYI thread on my upcoming upgrade/downgrade.

[smokinreefer]

so first off, i am moving this summer.

because i am lazy, and dont like hassles... i try to use a move as the perfect excuse to change a reef tank. it just makes the transfer so much easier to move the reef into a different tank, then to take everything out, move the tank and put everything back into the same tank.

same size~ thinking of buying another 180 and moving the reef into that, then using my current 180 as a FO in the future.

upgrade~ going to a 270 or a 225 6'x3'Wx2' or 6'x30"Wx2'

different size~ standard 120 or a 4'x3' or 30"Wx2'

downgrade~ entertaining sizes as small as a 40breeder.

one major issue is floorspace. i am moving into an old house. and although i will have a spare bedroom, it is kinda small and i would rather not have my tank tucked away in a little room, i want it out in the open for viewing.

problem 2. floor support. its an old house... and i will be on the main floor now. (renting out basement). i really dont know how to tell if the floor can support the weight structurally, hoping that when the guy comes to reno the kitchen that he will be able to tell me. i have no clue about joists, supporting walls etc. i'm fearing that this may force me to downgrade.

anyways, if you guys have any input to this, please feel free.

[LostMind]

I have an old house. Had an engineer friend come by and he said that my joists are overbuilt and the floor has a higher load bearing capacity then newer houses. Of course, you are currently on a cement pad so....

If the joists run perpendicular to your tank, you can have a bigger tank as the load will be spread out across more joists. If the tank sits paralell to the joists, you will only be distributing the weight across 2 joists or so... which is not good.

[smokinreefer]

i see... now i just gotta figure out how to tell where the joists are.

[smokinreefer]

from the floor flans it is noted that there are 2"x6" joists @ 16" o.c.

i guesstimate that my sytems weighs ~1500-2000 lbs as is.

[LostMind]

my 120g weighs over 2000lbs shao.

your 180 should be aroudn 3000?

[Aquattro]

Shao, your tank with just water in it is over 2000!

[smokinreefer]

heh. ok, lets say ~3000 lbs!

can anybody chime in about the joist info?

[powerboy]

the 2x6 is probably refering to the wall studs and a non load beaing joist (aka ceiling rafter of something)

i hope its a lot beefier than 2x6 for your sake.

as far as beefing them up, just add one to the existing joist.

ie if its a 2x8/10 (hopefully) then get another one the same length, and sandwitch it against the existing. i would use pl premium construction adhesive and a lot of nails, or better yet screws. you can do this for as many as you need to cover the area of the tank and maybe one more on either side.

this should do the trick for ya.

just make sure its also sitting on the concrete form/frame whathaveyou.

[smokinreefer]

ummm... you really lost me there... :confused:

as per the original floor plans...

2"x6" joist @16" o.c.
*joist to be doubled under all partitions running parallel to joist

what exactly does that mean?

when i am actually in the house, how would i verify the size of the joists? do i need to rip open a wall?

[mark]

I'm with powerboy, seems rather unsized if only 2"x6". Is it short spans?

If the basement ceiling is finished, to check the depth of the joists, just drill a small hole (1/8") either on the main floor (in a closet) or in the basement ceiling. Use something like a piece of coat hanger the measure the depth. If it's a 2"x6" you'll have some work to do.

[smokinreefer]

the basement ceiling is finished, and the basement is occupied.

just to clarify, if by some chance i were able to upgrade the joists...
would that mean i would have to rip open the basement ceiling and walls?

sounds like i'm doomed to keeping a 40 breeder. :rolleyes:

[StirCrazy]

the basement ceiling is finished, and the basement is occupied.

just to clarify, if by some chance i were able to upgrade the joists...
would that mean i would have to rip open the basement ceiling and walls?

sounds like i'm doomed to keeping a 40 breeder. :rolleyes:

yes.

but there are ways to minimize the effect depending on the layout under where you want to keep the tank.

Steve

[MitchM]

heh. ok, lets say ~3000 lbs!

can anybody chime in about the joist info?

Sure :smile:

If you have a forced air heating system, take off a cold air return and you'll be able to determine both the size and direction of the joists.


2 x 6's are usually used for stair landings and SMALL outside decks.
An old house will NOT have 2 x 6's in the walls, unless it's a reno.

I can look up some span tables for you, but that's not really reliable, just a guideline.

3000 lbs in the middle of a floor?...no.
3000 lbs on or near a load bearing wall? ....a definite maybe.

Mitch

[props]

hey shao that room your planning on putting your tank in? carpet? hardwood? if its carpet then theres your excuse of ripping it out install your new joist and put hardwood flooring
my 2cents
=o)

[smokinreefer]

the house is 40ish yrs old, its not a reno.
hopefully the joists will be bigger then whats stated on the drafting.

the floors are hardwood. but nice try tho!

[props]

tough luck to add those joist you'll gon have to open up the basement
wonder if you can put 2"x10"s underneath your stand have it running perpendicular against the joist? nm its gon look gay

[MitchM]

Here's a good link for floor joist loads and span tables:

http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publications/articles/understanding_loads_using_span_tables.html

HTH,
Mitch

[smokinreefer]

a ray of hope?!?!?

looking over the house drawings again...

in all previous refernces, info was taken from the drawing of the main floor, which indicate 2x6" joists...

now, in looking at the drawing for the basement, they all state 2x10" joists...

in talking with my dad, he is quite certain that when he was working in the basement that the joists were most definitely larger than 2x6".

when i move i think the first thing i will check is the joists!

but from this revelation, could it mean, the joists mentioned on the main floor drawing refers to the joists in the rafters/roof/ceiling of the main floor?

and the joists mentioned on the basement drawing would refer to the joists in the ceiling of the basement, which would be the floor of the main floor, which means i can keep my 180! and maybe even go bigger!!!!

i hope i got it straight now! cuz that would be awesome!

[LostMind]

you could probably keep your 180 if you ran perpendicular to the joists.

Honestly, I cant see how any house would be built with 2x6's as floor joists. Arent they always at least 2x10? They were when I was working construction for 2 summers back in high school...

[smokinreefer]

you could probably keep your 180 if you ran perpendicular to the joists.

probably?!?!?!?

hmmmm.... i guess i might have to do floor upgrades still.

or just settle for a smaller tank.

heh, even if the floor could handle it, i dont even know where on the main floor a big tank would look nice.

[LostMind]

scan the floorplans and let us make suggestions :P

[props]

as stated from previous reply best is to get a 1/8" drill bit drill on some hidden area in the main floor ie. closet and stick in a coat hanger see how far it'll go down till it hits the basement ceiling
we do somewhat the same thing when fishing cables

[smokinreefer]

oh yeah, for sure i will check it out when i move in.
but now i am pretty sure they are 2x10"s.

even so, i would really like a 225 or 270, with a 135 sump.
so floor upgrades would still be necessary.

any ideas as to what i would need to reinforce this properly?
add 2x10"s to each side of each existing joist that the tank will be on?

well i would definitely have an engineer come by and tell me if it is plausible, if i decide to go with the upgrade.

if i cant go big, then i will go small. <100gallons.

and then who knows what the future holds, maybe in the future i will set up an inwall in the basement, or put an addition on the house, or even just build a new house! :mrgreen:

[LostMind]

one can dream shao!

you may need to put jacks below the tank to support 200g +

I would just so I could sleep :)

[StirCrazy]

but now i am pretty sure they are 2x10"s.


how old is the house? older houses used true dimensional lumber instead of what we have now.. a old 2X10 was made from first growth lumber and measured 2X10, a new 2X10 is from 2nd 3rd growth and only measures 1 and 5/8th X 9 and 5/8th.

So older floors are stronger than new floors.. your best bet is to go see an architect and tell him exactly what you want to do and ask him what would need to be done for you to do it.

Steve

[smokinreefer]

steve, the house is 40 yrs old.
yeah, i read that too about the true dimensions of lumber back in the day.
i will definitley confirm this before i go ahead with anything.

so would i want to consult with an architech or an engineer?

[StirCrazy]

steve, the house is 40 yrs old.
yeah, i read that too about the true dimensions of lumber back in the day.
i will definitley confirm this before i go ahead with anything.

so would i want to consult with an architech or an engineer?

usaly a archatect knows the loads and suce as he designs the house and specifies the material and sizing.

Steve

[ldzielak]

Shao,

Do you have a garage? Maybe just move the tank into the garage, then when you have more time you can build the bigger system and upgrade the floor if required.

That is what I just did last weekend, but now I like the look of a fish room in the garage. But the house needs some tanks. Trick is how to plumb all into the garage to use one sump, skimmer and chiller.

Lee

[smokinreefer]

heh. we are talkin old school here.
only got a carport.

it would be nice to enclose the patio and turn it into a fishroom.
got any money i can borrow? :lol:

its just not in my budget at the moment.

[smokinreefer]

well no final decisions until i move in and can see where i can put things and if the floor can support it...

but ive decided, i'll either go big, 225-270 or go with 2 3'ish tanks. 1 bare bottom high flow sps and 1 lagoonal clam dominated.