Ideas for LED supplementation

[Aquattro]

So I've decided that something needs to be done to bring back some lost color due to switching to LED. I've read threads elsewhere of people reporting the same thing with various brands, so it's more a technology limitation, and so far the only real fix I've found is going back to MH or T5.
But, has anyone come across any added light (UV, Violet, Red, etc) that has helped bring back lost colors? I know it's a limited number of people that have switched from a mature HM/T5 tank to LED, but what are your thoughts and experience with this?

[sphelps]

I added red, green, NW, yellow and UV LEDs before I was happy with the color in my tank. I found the biggest issue related to white LEDs washing out many colors, adding the red and green LEDs will create a RGB color effect allowing to cut back on white output. This made the most dramatic effect, the UVs did nothing IMO.

Blue and White (especially cool white) are just not enough to create a good color spectrum for all coral color.

[don.ald]

I am in the same boat. I ran 6 t5s and switched to 3 sol units and I still run 4 t5s to supplement the LEDs to get a look I want:cry:

[Aquattro]

I am in the same boat. I ran 6 t5s and switched to 3 sol units and I still run 4 t5s to supplement the LEDs to get a look I want:cry:

Which bulbs?

[Aquattro]

I added red, green, NW, yellow and UV LEDs before I was happy with the color in my tank.

sounds all very complicated :)

[don.ald]

Which bulbs?

Fiji purple and some KZ actinic blue?

Anyone have any feedback on these??
http://www.modularled.ca/36-panorama-marine/

[PurpleMonkey]

What light fixture are you using? Which white LEDs?

[sphelps]

sounds all very complicated :)

It's as complicated as you make it, you can purchase LED tube lights that will be no different than adding T5 lighting except you can strictly add just the colors you're looking for.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/868/478/457/457478868_342.jpg

Adding T5s becomes counterproductive when you've already switched to LEDs, if you're tank is 6ft and you're running a large amount of LEDs you're looking at adding around 6 to 8 36" T5s to make a noticeable difference, that could be as much as another 300W of light plus bulb changes.

[Doug]

That will teach you to switch from the halides you vowed to never leave. :lol:

On a serious note, mine are also lightning up since adding my new led fixture. My SWC led, which is also just white and blue, was giving me good colour. Not sure if its because of more white as you guys say or what.

Even if I add the other led fixture back and run both, its still just white and blue I guess. May look at a strip like Steve mentioned.

[subman]

Its really a limitation of the fixtures you bought not leds. The radions and Vegas provide full spectrum (at least closer to it) as they have more than blue and white leds. I am currently using all three and I can adjust the colors to be whatever I want.

[JMes]

Do you guys find your LEDS make the tank look dull campared to T5 and MH.:cry:

[Aquattro]

Its really a limitation of the fixtures you bought not leds. The radions and Vegas provide full spectrum (at least closer to it) as they have more than blue and white leds.

Nope, just finished reading the same results from Radion and Vertex owners. It's a LED thing, not an AI thing. One guy is going to try the new Mitras, but we'll see. Although even if those do the job, the price puts them out of my reach.

[Aquattro]

Do you guys find your LEDS make the tank look dull campared to T5 and MH.:cry:

No, not really dull, and I love the color and shimmer, just that some corals, not all, have lost some color.

[Aquattro]

That will teach you to switch from the halides you vowed to never leave. :lol:


Yes, I'm starting to regret it. The LED have lots of positives, just not in the SPS color department :) Don't get me wrong, most of my corals are great, just not as great as they have been under Radiums!

[subman]

Nope, just finished reading the same results from Radion and Vertex owners. It's a LED thing, not an AI thing. One guy is going to try the new Mitras, but we'll see. Although even if those do the job, the price puts them out of my reach.

I'm not buying that if I can adjust my radions to make my yellow tang red I'm sure I can make the corrals pop

[Aquattro]

I'm not buying that if I can adjust my radions to make my yellow tang red I'm sure I can make the corrals pop

Then you have better light tuning skills than the guy who posted, as well as the radion tanks I've seen in person. One of my "corals of concern" is also in a radion lit tank and has the same issues.
Sorry, while the Radion is a fantastic looking unit, it's not really any better than a Sol. Perhaps a bit different in spread vs. penetration, but that's it. Radion, SOL, Vega, Vertex, all reported to have the same deficiencies in SPS color production. Maybe the Mitras will make up for that, maybe not.
LED have a lot of great features, like I said, but they do not match a 400w Radium MH.

[Aquattro]

I'm not buying that if I can adjust my radions to make my yellow tang red I'm sure I can make the corrals pop

further on this, it isn't about making it look a certain color, it's about it being a certain color. My pink and blue milli was pink with blue, even out of the tank in daylight. Now it's a blue milli, no pink. you can blast all the red at it you want, and maybe make it (and the tang) look red or pink, but it isn't :)

[subman]

Perhaps that was a bad example, I meant that I'm sure with the right program you could advice the spectrum you desire. Its just very time consuming to do this so most people don't.

[Aquattro]

Perhaps that was a bad example, I meant that I'm sure with the right program you could advice the spectrum you desire. Its just very time consuming to do this so most people don't.

I dunno, I see guys selling their LEDs to go back to MH or T5, you'd think they would invest the time to play first, as that's mostly free. But so far, I've yet to see a SPS tank under LED that matches a MH tank (given top end of both :))

But, we digress, this isn't a thread about justifying the extra money spent, just looking for someone that's had luck returning colors lost with LED, regardless of brand.

[subman]

I dunno, I see guys selling their LEDs you'do back to MH or T5, you'd think they would invest the time to play first, as that's mostly free. But so far, I've yet to see a SPS tank under LED that matches a MH tank (given top end of both :))

But, we digress, this isn't a thread about justifying the extra money spent, just looking for someone that's had luck returning colors lost with LED, regardless of brand.

I apologize for hijacking. I think a time goes by you will see the full sps tanks like yours under the leds

[Delphinus]

I think the problem is that when you're coming from Radiums and in particular Radiums on SonAgro, you get totally spoiled and develop higher expectations!

I can't add anything useful to this discussion other than I'm disappointed to hear this, I was considering giving up on the halides (3 Radiums) because of the heat and humidity and in this shoulder season where it's not cold enough outside to run the HRV, it's putting my house into an awkward spot of excessive humidity. Now I'm thinking I'm just going to start cutting holes in the walls to the outside to increase the ventilation in the tank room and keep the darn Radiums! :lol:

[Aquattro]

I think the problem is that when you're coming from Radiums and in particular Radiums on SonAgro, you get totally spoiled and develop higher expectations!

I can't add anything useful to this discussion other than I'm disappointed to hear this, I was considering giving up on the halides (3 Radiums) because of the heat and humidity and in this shoulder season where it's not cold enough outside to run the HRV, it's putting my house into an awkward spot of excessive humidity. Now I'm thinking I'm just going to start cutting holes in the walls to the outside to increase the ventilation in the tank room and keep the darn Radiums! :lol:

I would :) BTW, I stopped running the SonAgro ballasts about 8 years ago, just been running e-ballasts. I'm starting to consider how i could vent the tank to get rid of humidity -lol

[Delphinus]

Oh I thought you were still on SonAgros. I have my middle on SonAgro still but the outside two are regular M137 or whatever they are (I forget now. The proper pulse-start ones that run them around 380ish watts.). To be honest after the first few weeks it's really hard to tell the difference anyhow, so I'm not sure there's any benefit other than to the power company. :)

[Aquattro]

I think a time goes by you will see the full sps tanks like yours under the leds

Oh, absolutely! I think we'll see better LED options within a year or two, but for now, I don't think there is a suitable replacement for MH/T5 in a SPS tank. I think a LPS or softie tank may be fine, as coverage is nice, growth is exceptional and the overall color and tone is really beautiful, they're just missing something that SPS need for full colors.
My tank is still awesome and most of the colors are fine, just a few select pieces that lost some pizazz :)
Pink and blue milli is a gorgeous blue milli, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as such, but knowing what it was vs what it's become just bugs me a bit. If I can enhance it with some add on, great, if not, I'll live with it. Probably :)

[Madreefer]

I too have experienced the same with my LEDs. I have been trying to supplement my reds and picked up a couple of Ecoxotic RGB. The ones I picked up I cant find on the internet. I picked these up in Phoenix. They help a bit but not as much as i'd like so i'm getting a couple more. If I could I would run a couple of T5s, but I dont have that option as I dont have an inwall tank or run a canopy. It would look to cluttered if I was to go that route. I too agree that I have not seen colors with my LEDs as I have with running MHs or T5s. With a little tinkering with the settings on the Sols if I crank my blues and turn down the whites than the colors seem to pop better but than the tank looks too blue.

[marie]

I solved my humidity problems by adding glass tops to the tank. My 300g tank now only evaporates 3-4 cups of water a day...... as an added bonus, I no longer need a heater in the tank and can maintain a temp of 78-82f with the metal halide lights and an open window in the fish room

[don.ald]

I too have experienced the same with my LEDs. I have been trying to supplement my reds and picked up a couple of Ecoxotic RGB. The ones I picked up I cant find on the internet. I picked these up in Phoenix. They help a bit but not as much as i'd like so i'm getting a couple more. If I could I would run a couple of T5s, but I dont have that option as I dont have an inwall tank or run a canopy. It would look to cluttered if I was to go that route. I too agree that I have not seen colors with my LEDs as I have with running MHs or T5s. With a little tinkering with the settings on the Sols if I crank my blues and turn down the whites than the colors seem to pop better but than the tank looks too blue.

I know I have asked you about these before, but can't find the thread, or maybe it was a pm?
So they are not like the one on modular site?
http://www.modularled.ca/rgb-panorama-pro-led-module/
http://www.modularled.ca/ecoxotic/
Rick

[Milad]

which LEDs are you using?
what colors are you missing?

Its all about knowing what wavelengths are going to bring out which colors. People using a cool white and royal blue combo will loose reds, oranges, pinks but their greens will explode.

check out the thread on full spectrum (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=294733) and OCW (Ocean coral white) LEDs.

If you are looking for color, thats the best place to check. Makes a huge difference.


FYI whoever is telling you its a technology thing is blowing smoke up your @$$. Light is light, it doesnt matter if its T5, MH, or LEDs. Its about the wavelengths. match the wavelength and locus of a MH with LEDs, its going to be the same light and will have the same effect.

But as the thread linked above will show you, MH are cookie cutter and you are stuck with their attributes. With a bit of testing (as the guys in that thread have done) you can take the right LEDs and the right ratios and produce some incredible colors in corals (AND FISH!)

[Madreefer]

I know I have asked you about these before, but can't find the thread, or maybe it was a pm?
So they are not like the one on modular site?
http://www.modularled.ca/rgb-panorama-pro-led-module/
http://www.modularled.ca/ecoxotic/
Rick

Well I guess they are on there. It would be the RGB Panorama Pro. It does'nt mention the colors all that well or that they come with a remote control. I would assume the RGB stands for red green and blue but theres also a white. The only thing I dont really like about them is there is no built in timer or any means of ramping the intensity up or down automatically. I'm sorry I remember you asking how I was going to mount them. If you want I can PM some pics of how I mounted them or I can post on this thread. I'll wait until the OP chimes in as I dont want to hijack.

[RuGlu6]

I have more 14K white then blue and colors are still very good even compare to 2x250W MH DE . Only one coral browned.
First I just had T5 HO actinics replaced by LED’s link below.
scroll down for pics.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87189&page=4
.
Now I’ve decided to replace 2x250W DE MH with 14K Whites & 470nm Blue LEDs.
My tank is SPS loaded and all SPS except one Pink bird nest are showing good color. Pink bird nest browned but polyp extention is much better under led.
The whole thing cost me slightly over $320. If people are interested i can let everyone know long tirm coral reaction.
.
FTS
LED rig is covered by the black cover.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0906_zps590ae6d6.jpg

From below fixture
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0903_zps3f145d63.jpg
.
I have a dimmer so i can adjust 14K white LED's to any intensity.
.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0901_zpsb8343769.jpg
.
Fan cooled, fan speed is based on dimmer setting.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0892_zpsbbac15ab.jpg
.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0899_zpsb566357c.jpg

LED rig
http://s381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/?action=view&current=IMG_0896_zps62f9c248.jpg
.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/RuGlu6/IMG_0895_zps46a875bc.jpg

[Aquattro]

I'll wait until the OP chimes in as I dont want to hijack.


sounds like right on topic :)

[Madreefer]

So to mount these I used coat hangers that I cut to put between the Sol modules and used picture frame hangers to hang these little Ecoxotic fixtures. It looks as though there is a red strip that is beeming down in to the tank, but it just looks like that on the mesh screen and not in the tank.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/ecoxotic001.jpg

Here they are with the reds on:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/ecoxotic003.jpg

And the reds off:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/ecoxotic006.jpg

My settings on my Sols are at 15%White 25%Blue 35%Royal Blue in both pics.

There is alot of different color combos that can be used with these, here's a pic of the remote for an example:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/ecoxotic.jpg

[christyf5]

There is alot of different color combos that can be used with these, here's a pic of the remote for an example:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh135/gulflube/ecoxotic.jpg

That is one of the coolest things I have ever seen for fish tanks. It certainly helps to customize the lighting.

On a side note I suddenly want smarties :razz:


Brad, are you telling me you spent how much and you still need MOAR lighting??? :confused:

[StirCrazy]

Brad, nothing wrong with the lights you got except they haven't caught up to the proper colors. so many out there are still using a cool white/royal blue combo which sucks for reds. the good DIY ones are using a combo of different whites, royal blue, regular blue, and true violet. some are adding green and red to thoes also, but in my opinion you only need the green and red if you are only using cool white, if you go to nutral white and warm white you get green and red in there spectrum.

the issue isn't the technology but rather the narrow spectrum of LEDs and not understanding this when you put a system togeather. your radium uses a combanation of all colors of light to make the 20K color, but you can get 20K from a royal blue LED just using the blue part of the spectrum, so no red or green. the lack of the other two colors is what will cause some others not to show up good.

you could probably add a strip to each LED that has two true violets, 1 red and one green to each light. put the green and reds on one dimmer and the TV's on another so you can just add as much as you need, problem is it won't be sync'ed with your lights you have now.

Pick Milad's ear with what you have and how to set it up. he is close to you and has realy been getting into the full spectrum side.

Steve

[marie]

further on this, it isn't about making it look a certain color, it's about it being a certain color. My pink and blue milli was pink with blue, even out of the tank in daylight. Now it's a blue milli, no pink. you can blast all the red at it you want, and maybe make it (and the tang) look red or pink, but it isn't :)

Brad I don't know if this has any relevance but I have a pink and blue millie that I got from a frag form Wendell (OA) years ago. I've had it under 250w 10k xms, radiums and 150w 10k ushio's. When it was high up in the lights, (xm's and radiums) it stayed pink and blue but when it was at the bottom of the tank and shaded, it went all blue, under the 150w light it was brown with blue tints. Right now it is under radiums and definitely pink and blue......I'm thinking you have a lower light situation, not really something you want to hear after spending money on leds but I can't help but think that 150 watts of light is the same no matter what kind of lights we use

[Aquattro]

Marie, I would agree only if the other corals around it were acting the same. But this one is right up under the light, maybe 6inches under waterline. I have a pink milli, same height on the other side of the tank, it's doing incredible, holding it's pink very well. I'm not saying lack of light isn't it though, because it was in the same spot under the 400w. And you're right, one SOL unit is not anywhere near a 400w MH bulb in intensity.

Sounds like I need to supplement the LED with MH bulbs :razz:

[PurpleMonkey]

+1 to adding some supplemental LEDS... Check out the Ocean's White 3-up led and some violets

[Milad]

Aquattro

I have a brilliant idea for you....

How about you send over some frags and ill put them under a LED full spectrum build and in a couple weeks you can see if it makes a substantial difference to you...

[Aquattro]

Aquattro

I have a brilliant idea for you....

How about you send over some frags and ill put them under a LED full spectrum build and in a couple weeks you can see if it makes a substantial difference to you...

That's not altogether a bad idea. Let me figure that out, and we'll see what we can do :)

[Milad]

That's not altogether a bad idea. Let me figure that out, and we'll see what we can do :)

I would of course purchase them off you. Just give me a good deal and pick the ones that are orange/red/pink that you feel arent giving their true color.

[Doug]

I think its just a lack of intensity, at least for me. My colours were fine under my SWC lights but not great spread and just ok growth. Under the new Evergreen, I have more spread and looks like more intense to me but just not right for what ever reason.

I was thinking of adding the Panorama Pro thats on the group buy but sheez already. I have two fixtures now and still cant get it right. Going to hand a 250 halide over my tank soon. :D

[Reefer Rob]

I'm also finding that some of my SPS have gone colorless under LEDs... but then some have never looked better.

Most likely in my case it is just neglect :redface: and way too much light. I've never cooked so many corals before.

which LEDs are you using?
what colors are you missing?

Its all about knowing what wavelengths are going to bring out which colors. People using a cool white and royal blue combo will loose reds, oranges, pinks but their greens will explode.

check out the thread on full spectrum (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=294733) and OCW (Ocean coral white) LEDs.

If you are looking for color, thats the best place to check. Makes a huge difference.


FYI whoever is telling you its a technology thing is blowing smoke up your @$$. Light is light, it doesnt matter if its T5, MH, or LEDs. Its about the wavelengths. match the wavelength and locus of a MH with LEDs, its going to be the same light and will have the same effect.

But as the thread linked above will show you, MH are cookie cutter and you are stuck with their attributes. With a bit of testing (as the guys in that thread have done) you can take the right LEDs and the right ratios and produce some incredible colors in corals (AND FISH!)

Crap Milad, couldn't you have referenced a longer thread? :surprise:

The OCW LEDs look interesting, but I'm half way through and I haven't got to the "I added the extra colors to the NW, RB LEDs and I'm totally amazed" posts yet.

Any feedback from people who have actually done this?

[Madreefer]

[QUOTE=Doug;757609

I was thinking of adding the Panorama Pro thats on the group buy D[/QUOTE]

What group buy is this? Can you please point me to that thread? I talked to a vendor on here and he did not mention any such thing.

[Myka]

Hey Brad, I think if you added 3-400 watt Radiums to the tank it will pump that color right up!!!! ;)

[Aquattro]

Hey Brad, I think if you added 3-400 watt Radiums to the tank it will pump that color right up!!!! ;)

Ya, I was thinkin' the same thing!

[Myka]

Ever since Sanjay Joshi was touting LEDs at MACNA (which was primarily based on super high PAR numbers) I have been tossing around the idea of purchasing some in the spring, but I know you and I have the same taste in lighting and you're turning me off the idea! Sanjay was predicting the future for LEDs will be focused on producing a fuller spectrum, although he did talk a bit about the fact that corals don't actually use the entire full spectrum, so maybe we don't need full spectrum, but rather proper spectrum...???

I have been noticing many people complaining that the new AI Vega uses cool whites instead of neutral whites. I definitely like the color of the Vega over the Sol, but visually the Radions are the nicest imo. I didn't look very closely at the Mitras. I don't think the Radions can even come anywhere near the color of halides or T5s though. I also find LEDs seem harsh on my eyes (and it's not the PAR lol).

I'm really thinking that we still have to wait another 2-3 years to be satisfied with LEDs as the primary source of reef lighting. So, those "10-year 50,000 hour" fixtures you all bought...yeah you're going to want new ones in a few years! :p

[Myka]

I'm also finding that some of my SPS have gone colorless under LEDs... but then some have never looked better.

This kinda makes me think that we would all just be happy if we started a tank with LEDs rather than switching a tank to LEDs. There are definitely several SPS out there that we generally struggle to keep nice colors, and then think of all the brown SPS that we assume are just brown naturally. Maybe some of these corals that don't do as well as we would like under MH or T5 would be something crazy under LED?

A fine example is when you purchase a wild caught or ocean cultured SPS coral and move it to your tank. Chances are it will look much different in a few weeks under the new lighting. So if natural light vs MH or T5 is so different then maybe MH or T5 vs LED is also very different...who know? Time will tell!

[Aquattro]

I'm really thinking that we still have to wait another 2-3 years to be satisfied with LEDs as the primary source of reef lighting. So, those "10-year 50,000 hour" fixtures you all bought...yeah you're going to want new ones in a few years! :p

Agreed. I'm actually seriously considering selling mine and going back to MH. I just have to figure out how to manage evaporation/moisture in the house. Some days I'm ok with the light, but other days, it's just not cutting it.

[Myka]

Why don't you sell the SPS you're not happy with? Replace them with something that will be more satisfying. Everything in life is relative...in this case you need to remove the memory of what was. :D

[Aquattro]

Why don't you sell the SPS you're not happy with? Replace them with something that will be more satisfying. Everything in life is relative...in this case you need to remove the memory of what was. :D


More satisfying than SPS?? That's just silly!! :razz:

[Myka]

No no, just sell the particular colonies you're not satisfied with and replace them with other SPS pieces!!! SILLY!!! :twised:

[don.ald]

What group buy is this? Can you please point me to that thread? I talked to a vendor on here and he did not mention any such thing.

What he said!

[Aquattro]

No no, just sell the particular colonies you're not satisfied with and replace them with other SPS pieces!!! SILLY!!! :twised:

You mean like the large efflo? Nah...

The other is the pink and blue milli. It's a really nice blue milli, I just know it should be half pink. And the pink lemonade is less yellow that it has been in the past. But I'm setting up a 50g grow out tank with radiums, so I may just move them to there.

[Milad]

I'm also finding that some of my SPS have gone colorless under LEDs... but then some have never looked better.

Most likely in my case it is just neglect :redface: and way too much light. I've never cooked so many corals before.



Crap Milad, couldn't you have referenced a longer thread? :surprise:

The OCW LEDs look interesting, but I'm half way through and I haven't got to the "I added the extra colors to the NW, RB LEDs and I'm totally amazed" posts yet.

Any feedback from people who have actually done this?

OCW is basically Deep Red, cool blue and Turquoise
That was introduced a few months before that thread was started. Half way through (about page 60000 billion) the OCW got introduced so instead of doing 3 individual stars, people started just getting the OCW because the way we placed the LEDs and the wavelengths we used, they produce a white light to your eyes and brighten up your tank. hence the "ocean coral white" name.

So what happens with the OCW is your tank gets brighter because some of the wavelengths of the Royals help produce the white and also anything around your tank and in your tank that is orange/red/pink will explode.

[StirCrazy]

remember this Brad

You NEED metal halide. I'm just sayin'.....

what are you doing with LEDs anyways :mrgreen:

Steve

[Reefer Rob]

Have you tried your old halides over your tank to see if you still like them? I think you'll find them a little bland after LEDs.

LEDs are so new, with very little real information for a reference, that it makes it challenging to get them dialed... but that's the fun of it isn't it.

[Aquattro]

remember this Brad



what are you doing with LEDs anyways :mrgreen:

Steve

And I still stick with my original quote! Due to evaporation rotting my house, I had to either spend money on HVAC, or switch to LED. I choose the LED. I'm thinking not the right choice :)
Overall, the LED have lots of great options. They're quiet, cool, have ramping ability, and the color given off is very pleasing to view. Most of the corals are growing to fast, and anything with blue or green looks great. Even my pink milli and pink stylo look incredible. Really, out of 100+ colonies, only maybe 4 have changed to a less pleasing color. They just happen to be some of the nicest pieces I have -lol
But, that being said, the Radiums had the color, intensity AND whatever it is that is missing in the LED. Yes, they're hot, noisy (due to fans cooling and bulbs rattling), more costly to run, blah blah....But MH IMO is superior light for SPS corals. I'm sure that if I'd started with LED, I'd never consider changing, but having run Radiums for so long, the LED were a downgrade. I've looked at Vertex fixtures over tanks with their "fuller spectrum" and they suffer the same issues as my Sols. So not really a brand issue, but a technology issue, in that the manufacturers haven't quite got it right yet. I'm sure that will change very soon, as there are a lot of SPS owners that are holding out until they see a true competitor to MH for color production.

[Aquattro]

Have you tried your old halides over your tank to see if you still like them? I think you'll find them a little bland after LEDs.

LEDs are so new, with very little real information for a reference, that it makes it challenging to get them dialed... but that's the fun of it isn't it.

Rob, I guarantee I'd still like them, I've loved Radiums for 10 years. :) I actually find the color separation from LED annoying, you can see it on the sand and the corals. I think some higher end units reduce that, but I have not seen a LED not do this, SOL, Radion, or Vertex. This includes DIY units I've seen with tons of LEDs installed.
With the SOLs, there is nothing to dial in. It's blue and white, or some mixture of that combo. The units are missing something that tweaks a particular pigment, not sure if it's red, UV, purple or anything else. Radions affect the corals the same way, so it likely isn't red or green, or maybe it just needs more than is provided.

Don't get me wrong, the LED gives of great light and color, and my blue and purple pieces are all gorgeous, and the ramping for sunrise/sunset is a fab feature. I do really like the lights and would have to seriously consider changing back to MH due to all the good features. I'm probably just going to have to accept that some pieces aren't going to have the color they had. I may be able to supplement with different color spectrum strips, not sure. Some type of T5 addition maybe?
I also have to consider that if I went back to MH, my wife would probably stab me in my sleep, not somewhere I really want to go :razz:

[Delphinus]

Glad I'm not the only one who finds the colour separation a bit of an issue. Every LED tank I have seen has had this and once I notice it, no matter how nice everything else may be, I get a little disappointed feeling. It's sort of like being in a Star Trek holodeck and thinking everything is nice and perfect in my little fake imaginary world then noticing one of the holo-emitters is on the fritz and you see these little staticy spark things zapping around and in behind you see the black wall of the holodeck itself and you realize "Oh yeah, right. This is not real. Kind of a bummer." With a well done reef tank when you really focus in on it there is this "suspension of disbelief" (it's not just for fiction apparently) where all of the cool technology in the world that is supporting the main cast, is just a supporting player and basically irrelevant so long as it's doing its job - it's what's in the tanks that is the draw for me to this hobby - the rest are just tools to get a job done.

I wonder how the multichip pendents compare though. These still intrigue me. I still would like to try a few and replace one of my Radiums at a time and then run in parallel to see how they stack up. I'm saving my pennies for this at this time, although it probably means I'm pre-empting a possibly more-better investment of a controller (yeah I run everything old skool still) in the meantime. :neutral:

[Reefer Rob]

I had no color separation with the LEDs 16" - 18" off the water, or since I removed the optics to reduce the intensity (and moved them down to 6")... but then I don't have sand.

I agree there are some missing spectrums, especially red in my case. I get no algae in the display at all, and almost no slime on the glass. Likely this is also effecting the corals.

I'll let you know what I think after I've added a few of Milads OCW LEDs.

[Aquattro]

I had no color separation with the LEDs 16" - 18" off the water, or since I removed the optics to reduce the intensity (and moved them down to 6")... but then I don't have sand.

I agree there are some missing spectrums, especially red in my case. I get no algae in the display at all, and almost no slime on the glass. Likely this is also effecting the corals.

I'll let you know what I think after I've added a few of Milads OCW LEDs.

Mine are about 6 inches OWL, and I can see separation in a few corals. Not a big deal. I have no algae either, although I never did. I have a bit of slime these days due to the mass blue clove die off, but that's my own fault.

I've asked him about those as well, I'd be interested in trying something. Not sure what thy are exactly though, haven't read that linked thread yet.

[Myka]

Brad, try raising the Sols up higher. Sols have 70 degree optics, Vegas have 80 degree, and Radions have 130 degree optics. So the Sols and Vegas have to be up higher than Radions to avoid the color separation aka The Disco Effect. :D

[Doug]

What group buy is this? Can you please point me to that thread? I talked to a vendor on here and he did not mention any such thing.

What he said!

Sorry guys. Its just the price reduction I read. For some reason I thought it was reduced with a group buy. I,m still going to purchase one I think.

I tried running both my led fixtures yesterday but just not enough room over my tank for that and they are both blue/white anyways.

Also thinking of Radion

[Reefer Rob]

Brad, try raising the Sols up higher. Sols have 70 degree optics, Vegas have 80 degree, and Radions have 130 degree optics. So the Sols and Vegas have to be up higher than Radions to avoid the color separation aka The Disco Effect. :D

Sols have 70 deg optics? Yikes! 6" is way too low. I had 80 deg and didn't like the look until I was above 14"

At a lower height I found I had "hot spots". Areas on the rocks where a coral would cook, and yet a coral a few inches away would look like it wasn't getting enough light. I took placing a few corals in those spots to convince myself it was actually happening, it seem impossible.

[Myka]

AI says: "How high above the water line should I mount my AI fixture? While mounting height is ultimately dependent upon your personal preference and aesthetic appeal, we would suggest 8-12 inches above the water line as the traditional mounting height. Mounting both higher and lower than the recommended heights can still deliver great growth characteristics; use a PAR meter if you have any questions on the actual light levels your corals are seeing."


I know many people mount them higher than that even...some as high as 24", most seem to like them around 12-14" height from what I've read.

[Doug]

Brad, you think the led,s have lower your evaporation rate that much? Is that in a hood? I have not had halides on my 30g but my 20 seemed to be about the same rate with either the leds or the halide. Mind you it was only a 150w over an open top.

[Aquattro]

Brad, try raising the Sols up higher. Sols have 70 degree optics, Vegas have 80 degree, and Radions have 130 degree optics. So the Sols and Vegas have to be up higher than Radions to avoid the color separation aka The Disco Effect. :D

They have a mix of 70/40. Right now they're in my canopy, so no choice on height. I'm working on that. The disco doesn't really get me anymore, I've gotten mostly used to it. But I do plan to try different heights, but have wife imposed restrictions on how that can be done :)

[Aquattro]

At a lower height I found I had "hot spots". Areas on the rocks where a coral would cook, and yet a coral a few inches away would look like it wasn't getting enough light. I took placing a few corals in those spots to convince myself it was actually happening, it seem impossible.


I don't find I really have that issue at all...

[Aquattro]

Brad, you think the led,s have lower your evaporation rate that much? Is that in a hood? I have not had halides on my 30g but my 20 seemed to be about the same rate with either the leds or the halide. Mind you it was only a 150w over an open top.


Doug, absolutely. I used to have water pouring down my windows, now, nothing. With MH, the lock on my front door rusted right through, I had to replace it as I couldn't get the key in the door.
MH run stupidly hot, I know I've got sunburn from working in the tank for more than 20 minutes. LED give off almost no heat. I also ran fans across the canopy to remove heat, which would certainly help move moisture into the house. No more fans with the LEDs

[Reefer Rob]

I don't find I really have that issue at all...

Oh... Ok I thought you said some of your corrals had lost color. In my case some of my corals lost flesh :sad:

[Myka]

They have a mix of 70/40. Right now they're in my canopy, so no choice on height. I'm working on that. The disco doesn't really get me anymore, I've gotten mostly used to it. But I do plan to try different heights, but have wife imposed restrictions on how that can be done :)

Oh, you got the ones with the 40s in them. That's even worse! :lol: Bah, it's not the wife's tank... :twised:

[Aquattro]

:lol: Bah, it's not the wife's tank... :twised:

Agreed. MY tank is in HER livingroom. :razz:

[Aquattro]

Oh... Ok I thought you said some of your corrals had lost color. In my case some of my corals lost flesh :sad:

Well, more changed color. If you look at Seacare's banner that scrolls across the top here, you can see a pink with blue milli. I had it like that in my tank for months, until switching to LED. Now's it's a really nice solid blue milli.
and my efflo at the bottom of the tank is duller than it was but that could be intensity related.

[Myka]

Agreed. MY tank is in HER livingroom. :razz:

Tell her that her room is the KITCHEN!!! :twised::twised::twised: HAHAHAHA

[mike31154]

Glad I'm not the only one who finds the colour separation a bit of an issue. Every LED tank I have seen has had this and once I notice it, no matter how nice everything else may be, I get a little disappointed feeling.

I wonder how the multichip pendents compare though. These still intrigue me. I still would like to try a few and replace one of my Radiums at a time and then run in parallel to see how they stack up. I'm saving my pennies for this at this time, although it probably means I'm pre-empting a possibly more-better investment of a controller (yeah I run everything old skool still) in the meantime. :neutral:

My DIY build uses 3 rows (9 per row) of 10 watt multi chip LEDs spaced about 4 & 1/2 inches apart. Mixture of cool white, white, blue & royal blue. I use no optics & the LEDs are just over 6 inches above the water. I see no disco effect or colour separation with this configuration. Fixture has been up & running since beginning of April this year. I only have a few SPS & they're doing fine, although they're not exactly prize colonies. Switching from MH/T5HO combo doesn't appear to have affected the growth rate or look of my SPS pieces. LPS, softies & other livestock are doing great. No way I would consider going back to the MH/T5 fixture.

If I had it to do again, I might go with fewer, larger multi chip LEDs with optics, hung higher above the tank. Mainly due to simplicity and less wiring etc. I'm certain that the single chip 3 watt LEDs on stars will eventually be phased out & eclipsed by fixtures with the larger multi chips such as those on some Orphek & Kessil models. Multi colour, multi chip LEDs are already available & development is underway on chips that are more specific to reef aquarium needs with the colour mix. Since the different colour LEDs are closely packed together on a single chip, colour separation is virtually eliminated. The biggest drawback at the moment is that a single 100 watt or larger multi chip is pretty costly & if you cook it, you'll be out a few $$$s.

A certain Mr. Wilson who owns a reefing shop in Ontario & posts regularly on RC is at the forefront of this type of development having had a multi chip custom designed for some pendants he built. A tank in his shop is lit with these pendants running large multi colour, multichip LEDs. Says it's a bit too blue for something he'd hang over his tank at home, but apparently it's a look folks are attracted to when they walk into a shop? Below is the photo from his photobucket album.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/file-4.jpg

So yeah, for the patient folks out there, won't be long & more choices for custom colour multi chip high power LED pendants should be hitting the shelves. As mentioned, Orphek, Kessil & several other manufacturers already offer fixtures of this type. Haven't checked the prices lately, but probably in line with the other high end players like EcoTech, AI, et al. Or if you want to tackle a DIY, many of the multi chips are readily avaible on fleabay & other online vendors. That's where I scored all my 10 watters.

[Aquattro]

Tell her that her room is the KITCHEN!!! :twised::twised::twised: HAHAHAHA

No, my room is the kitchen, I prefer she doesn't go in there. Maybe I should move the tank to the kitchen? lol

[Bblinks]

Brad, I think you should try 3 X 24inch fiji pinks to supplement in between the sols. It will be the most cost effective way. I also need you to come by one day and check out my tank. I bumped the whites to 80% at the peak and 100% for both blues, to be my surprise I am getting more colors out of some of the paler ones. To be honest I love my sols and if I can get the red spectrum covered then they should be fine. you need to come by!!!

[TimT]

Tell her that her room is the KITCHEN!!! :twised::twised::twised: HAHAHAHA

Oh that sounds dangerous... frying pan incoming. On the positive side you would never have to worry about Radiums or sps again ;-)

[Aquattro]

Brad, I think you should try 3 X 24inch fiji pinks to supplement in between the sols. It will be the most cost effective way. I also need you to come by one day and check out my tank. I bumped the whites to 80% at the peak and 100% for both blues, to be my surprise I am getting more colors out of some of the paler ones. To be honest I love my sols and if I can get the red spectrum covered then they should be fine. you need to come by!!!


What color is your pink and blue milli? :)

I have mine at 85/100/100, so very close with brighter white. I should be over first week of December. I should stop by :)

[Bblinks]

Mostly blue with a bit of red....hence the T5 fiji pink.:redface:

[Aquattro]

Mostly blue with a bit of red....hence the T5 fiji pink.:redface:

See., that's the issue. It used to be more pink with blue highlights.

[don.ald]

I still run my Fiji pinks and blues along with my sols.
I do notice more growth with the LED lighting.
Damn...going to have to start fraging.

[freezetyle]

Not sure if anyone commented on this earlier but AI should be releasing custom pucks for us Sol owners, you would be able to add in the red/green/violet soon enough. If pricing is the same as the other ones your looking at 25/puck. probably need 2/fixture if you got enough for a half to a quarter of your tank probably wouldnt be a very expensive test.

[Aquattro]

Not sure if anyone commented on this earlier but AI should be releasing custom pucks for us Sol owners, you would be able to add in the red/green/violet soon enough. If pricing is the same as the other ones your looking at 25/puck. probably need 2/fixture if you got enough for a half to a quarter of your tank probably wouldnt be a very expensive test.

Jon, my concern is we don't know that those colors do anything extra. and at 12 pucks x 25 bucks, that ain't gonna happen :)

[StirCrazy]

And I still stick with my original quote! Due to evaporation rotting my house, I had to either spend money on HVAC, or switch to LED. I choose the LED. I'm thinking not the right choice :)
Overall, the LED have lots of great options. They're quiet, cool, have ramping ability, and the color given off is very pleasing to view. Most of the corals are growing to fast, and anything with blue or green looks great. Even my pink milli and pink stylo look incredible. Really, out of 100+ colonies, only maybe 4 have changed to a less pleasing color. They just happen to be some of the nicest pieces I have -lol
But, that being said, the Radiums had the color, intensity AND whatever it is that is missing in the LED. Yes, they're hot, noisy (due to fans cooling and bulbs rattling), more costly to run, blah blah....But MH IMO is superior light for SPS corals. I'm sure that if I'd started with LED, I'd never consider changing, but having run Radiums for so long, the LED were a downgrade. I've looked at Vertex fixtures over tanks with their "fuller spectrum" and they suffer the same issues as my Sols. So not really a brand issue, but a technology issue, in that the manufacturers haven't quite got it right yet. I'm sure that will change very soon, as there are a lot of SPS owners that are holding out until they see a true competitor to MH for color production.

I was just giving you the gears, I think once you get the spectral thing sorted out you will be find, I have read that 6.5 billion page thread that was linked, don't bother reading just know you need to add some different wavelenghts to your set up. if it is in your hood no problem as you could go with a simple DIY set up. I am sure you can find some one in vic to solder it all up for you. if not send the stuff to me and I'll throw it togeather for you. I think some of thoes OCW LEDs spaced out might do exactly what you need.

Maybe you could make a deal with Milad for one to do a test, where you could pit it over one of the corals in question and see if there is a differance. If there is then you could buy more and make a suplementation system, if not your out 20some bucks or there abouts.

[Aquattro]

I was just giving you the gears,

Maybe you could make a deal with Milad for one to do a test, where you could pit it over one of the corals in question and see if there is a differance. If there is then you could buy more and make a suplementation system, if not your out 20some bucks or there abouts.

Ya, I know, you're all about gears :razz:

Ya, if he or you wants to do that, we can work something out. But you know me and wires. We do not get along. No patience for that and with 4 dogs and a 2yo, not a lot of time either.

[Reefer Rob]

See., that's the issue. It used to be more pink with blue highlights.

Sorry for the late reply but I've been thinking about this piece (I tend to obsess about these things), do you know the lineage of it?

I had a pink and blue milli that originally came from Superfudge's frag tank. It was encrusted on a plug, and I mistook it for a superman monti. "No" says Marc "That's just a blue milli". Sure enough, in his display it was a beautiful blue Millepora.

In my tank it retained it's coloration, and I referred to it as my "Superman Milli". Tangdaddy managed to turn it into the most beautiful blue milli I've ever seen by dosing potassium in his tank.

When I tore down my 180 if I'm not mistaken most of the colony went to KPG007.

So, to make a short story long, if this is the same coral (or something similar) the color is highly variable, and you're in good company if it's blue :wink:

[Aquattro]

Sorry for the late reply but I've been thinking about this piece (I tend to obsess about these things), do you know the lineage of it?



This is one from Tim, I think it's originally a wild sourced colony. Tim would have to verify.

[Bblinks]

Brad, did you find a solution to supplement your AI sol's?

[Doug]

Me thinks he is still off getting a sunburn..:lol:

[apexifd]

Brad, did you find a solution to supplement your AI sol's?

5 letter word for you........






Mitra

[Jaws]

Me thinks he is still off getting a sunburn..:lol:

Ya, he's in Cabo the bastard. Otherwise he'd have replied with a smartass comment by now. lol

[Bblinks]

Oh yeah! That lucky bum. I wish I was back in Cancun.....:cry:

[Bblinks]

5 letter word for you........






Mitra


BUY IT!!!!!!

[Samw]

Mar

Sounds like I need to supplement the LED with MH bulbs :razz:

Try supplementing your LED with a couple of 70w HQI DE and see how that goes.