68 Gallon Rimless Reef Build

[zhasan]

Hi everyone! My name is Zee and I'm a newbie in the SW hobby. I've kept many freshwater tanks over the past 4 years and now I've decided to move on to Saltwater.

I'm planning on setting up a reef tank. I've been reading a lot of articles over the past few weeks and learning about how to start things up the right way to ensure success in the long run! Biggest lesson learned so far: PATIENCE WILL GET YOU THERE ONE DAY!!

Enough talking... Now lets get to the point.

I picked up a used setup from Craigslist in the beginning of the year and was wanting to set it up at the time but things didn't work out and it just sat in my house. Now I've gained momentum again and hopefully will carry the torch through.

So, the equipment.

Tank:
Custom ELOS Tank (36" W x 22" H x 20" D) - Rimless Starphire Glass

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/1.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2340.jpg

Stand:
The stand this tank came with is not tall enough for my liking it does not have enough space inside for a decent sump. I’ve decided to build a custom stand out of ¾” plywood after being inspired by sphelps’s stand for his 100gal build. I’m building a 48” W x 24” D x 40” H stand. The reason why its that size is because I’ll have ample space for everthing down below and I want to upgrage to a 4’x2’x2’ (120gallon) tank in the future so I can use the same stand.

Lighting:
2 x LumenMax Elite Reflectors, 250W Metal Halide Ballasts, 250W 20K Radium Bulbs
2 x T5 Actinics
These are currently installed in the Vented Canopy. Yes, the guy was using a canopy over this tank :surprise:

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2358.jpg

Here is where I’m a little confused. I want to upgrade to LED lighting. However, I don’t want to dish out the cash as of rightnow… So I’m thinking of using 1 of the MH pendants for now coupled with the Actinics T5s. Would it be okay to use that light for softies? I want corals in the tank but don’t want to kill them with too much light.

Filteration:
This setup did not come with a sump so I have to build that from scratch. I have a 30gallon tank (36” W x 16” H x 12” D) that I’m thinking of making into a sump.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2339.jpg

I’m planning a 3 chamber sump. First for skimmer also the filter sock will be here too. Second for refugium with DSB and Chateo followed by bubble breaker and return chamber.

Also, will be hooking up the TLF Phosphate Media Reactor 150

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2362.jpg

I also have a 9W Coralife UV Steralizer. Will I need this for this setup? Or will it help me at all to keep Algae away?

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2359.jpg

Skimmer:
Warner Marine AS150 Skimmer

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/3.jpg

Return Pump:
Iwaki 30 RT Pump

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/9.jpg

This is an external pump so I still have to see if I can use this or maybe sell this and buy an Eheim return pump.

Water Movement:
Vortech MP20 unit & controller

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/13.jpg

I also have two Tunze Power Heads and a Koralia 4 to supplement the vortech.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/14.jpg

Other equipment:

Spectra Pure 4-Stage RO/DI System

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/10.jpg

Vertex Calcium Reactor, complete with CO2 bottle, regulator/solenoid and pH probe - I might sell this and just keep the dosing unit. Haven't decided yet.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/2.jpg

Profilux 3 Channel Doser and three containers for supplements

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2361.jpg

Digital Aquatics ReefKeeper2 with powerstrips, PH probe, temp Probe and other stuff.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/29.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/27.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/32.jpg

Tunze ATO Osmolator

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/16.jpg

A series of test kits (Elos), salt, supplements

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2357.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2342.jpg

Refractometer
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2353.jpg

So this is all I have at the moment. I'll be building the stand this sunday hopefully and will start working on the sump sometime during next week. I'll post the dimensions for the stand to have them double checks by the pro DIYers!

I want to hear your ideas and suggestions. I'm in the learning phase of the hobby so any help is highly appreciated.

Thanks for looking!

[kien]

Nice start there. Welcome to the salty side!

[zhasan]

Nice start there. Welcome to the salty side!

Thanks Kien! I was lookin at your room divider build. That is an amazing looking setup! Great inspiration for me! :)

[ashr]

Looks like a great start. Are you planning on SPS by any chance?

[zhasan]

Looks like a great start. Are you planning on SPS by any chance?

Thanks Ashr! In the future I'll be looking into SPS but for now just some beginner soft corals. I want to get my feet wet and have some experience under my belt before moving into SPS.

[ashr]

might be a good idea haha

where did you get all your goodies by the way

[zhasan]

might be a good idea haha

where did you get all your goodies by the way

Yeah forsure!

I bought it all as a package off of Craigslist. I think I have everything I need from beginning till I get into SPS... just need to learn to utilize it all properly. This is where all you experts come into play to help/advise me! :mrgreen:

[zhasan]

Alrighty so bit of an update..

Went to home depot today to buy the plywood for the stand and basically got total brainwashed into making a frame out of 2x4. So back I came and took out all the trusty 2x4s and started to build the stand.

Now I have a pretty strong frame made out of 2x4s.... Its 70% done. Gonna pick up the finishing materials tomorrow and continue working on it. Planning to have it all done and ready by wednesday!

Here are a few pics..

A family friend of mine helping me out throughout the day!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2409.jpg

Basic frame is ready!!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2410.jpg

Another View
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2411.jpg

The scene of the garage at the end of the day
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2412.jpg

Thanks for looking!! :)

[Skimmerking]

Someone doesnt look happy here, he's building stuff. look happy

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2411.jpg

[kien]

Someone doesnt look happy here, he's building stuff. look happy

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2411.jpg

not everyone likes to eat wood. Just sayin'.

[Skimmerking]

lol

[zhasan]

LOL... thats my dad. He was just wondering why I was taking pictures in the middle of everything!

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Parents thinking their kids are crazy is par for the course my friend.:lol:

[zhasan]

So a bit of an update with my slow progress. I got the stand all skinned and the top cut out to size with the hole for the overflow and return. Now just gotta get it all primed and painted.

A few questions:

is it a must to paint the inside of the stand with the Mold and Mildew resistant paint or any indoor semigloss paint will do?

Also, I'm now thinking about the Live rock and base rock. I want to have a good start but don't want to dish out 600 bucks just for rock. I'm thinking of mixing LR and base rock. Is there a ratio that works well?

I was thinking of ordering 50lbs Bulk Fiji Dry Rock (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-bulk-fiji-dry-live-rock-50lb-box.html) from bulk reef supply and adding about 10lbs of live rock from LFS. Would this be a good mix to seed the base rock and get curing the LR as well as cycling the tank?

Also, I was out at Rona to pick up the silicone for installing the sump baffles, but couldnt find anything. Can someone point me in the right direction please!!

Photobucket is acting up.. so no pics for now :(

[ashr]

Are you planning on adding live sand too? If so, that ratio would be fine. It will all seed from the sand plus the 10 lbs of live rock.

Make sure to have a nice solid sand.. the worst thing would be in a couple of years after being split on with salt water and chemicals. You Don't want it to break down or rot.

It looks good so far!


PS

Get those pictures working!

[HaZRaTTy]

Looks like you have a VERY nice start to your Reef!! With everything you have I seen no reason why you couldn't keep SPS (Lacking tank maturity, wasn't stopped people before) I would definetly start out with softies and "easier" corals.

Curious why you rebuilt the stand? The halides will do just fine.

As for your test kits and suppliments make sure you find the expiry so they arn't leading you in the wrong direction.

As for the Ratio / LF to Dead rock there isn't any amount you need, The more you use the less of a cycle you will see. I would do 20% but take a look on canreef in your area maybe you'll be able to pick up some for a cheaper price. 3lbs/ pound isn't uncommon.

Good luck, you are definetly in the right place for information and to point a finger in the right direction.:mrgreen:


EDIT: ======= As for the silicone - I would go to your LFS (local fish store) I have never had luck @ HD,Rona.

[lastlight]

I really liked the stand it came with perhaps your new one will be even nicer. One heck of a nice setup to purchase altogether! Don't try those radiums out you'll never be happy with LEDs later on =)

[daplatapus]

Also, I was out at Rona to pick up the silicone for installing the sump baffles, but couldnt find anything. Can someone point me in the right direction please!!



I've always used this stuff with no problems:
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x353/daplatapus/IMAG0081.jpg
Only one I've ever seen at a hardware store that says aquarium safe.
I have heard of some having it go a bit yellow but I've personally never had that happen. Get it a HomeHardware for $9 for a 3 tube contractor pack.

[zhasan]

So photobucket is not back with a new site layout... so here are the pics of the stand build thus far!

Left side - Big opening for me to be able to work on the skimmer and whatever else will go on this side of the sump

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2480.jpg

Full open front for easy access to the sump and fuge area

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2481.jpg

Right side - Big opening for me to access all electrical stuff.. I'm thinking about making a small electrical cabinet on this side to keep it all almost completely away from water. It depends on how much space is left after I hook up my external pump and other things.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2482.jpg

Another view

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_2483.jpg

Installed the braces on top for the added support

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/photo1-7.jpg

Here is the top, made out of 1/2" MDF with the cut out for the overflow and return pipes

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/photo2-7.jpg

Right side with top on with 1/2 moulding work done - Ran out of the moulding pieces.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/photo3-7.jpg

Left side with top on with complete moulding work done.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/photo5-6.jpg

Another view showcasing the front and left side.. ofcourse not all finished yet with the mouldings.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/photo4-3.jpg

[zhasan]

Are you planning on adding live sand too? If so, that ratio would be fine. It will all seed from the sand plus the 10 lbs of live rock.

Make sure to have a nice solid sand.. the worst thing would be in a couple of years after being split on with salt water and chemicals. You Don't want it to break down or rot.

It looks good so far!


PS

Get those pictures working!

Hey Ashr, yeah I'm definately plannning on adding live sand too. I want something more on the granular side rather then plain sand just so its not going all over the water column with the flow in the tank.

I think my stand is pretty solid. 2x4s are hella strong so I hope I won't have this guy breaking on my within a year or a couple of years for that matter. All the glue and screws should do the trick. Thanks for the comments and compliments! I thrive on them!!:mrgreen:

Looks like you have a VERY nice start to your Reef!! With everything you have I seen no reason why you couldn't keep SPS (Lacking tank maturity, wasn't stopped people before) I would definetly start out with softies and "easier" corals.

Curious why you rebuilt the stand? The halides will do just fine.

As for your test kits and suppliments make sure you find the expiry so they arn't leading you in the wrong direction.

As for the Ratio / LF to Dead rock there isn't any amount you need, The more you use the less of a cycle you will see. I would do 20% but take a look on canreef in your area maybe you'll be able to pick up some for a cheaper price. 3lbs/ pound isn't uncommon.

Good luck, you are definetly in the right place for information and to point a finger in the right direction.:mrgreen:


EDIT: ======= As for the silicone - I would go to your LFS (local fish store) I have never had luck @ HD,Rona.

Thanks Hazratty! The fellow I bought this tank from had it all set for an SPS only tank but decided to sell it all due to personal reasons. I lucked out there! :biggrin:

I'm rebuilding the stand because, the original stand was only good for a 20 gallon tank as a sump. That left me no space for a fuge as well as hooking up the iwaki would also be a problem in that stand. so I decided to build a new one with potential to upgrade to a 120 (4x2x2) tank!

I'm thinking of keeping a single halide for now. I want to venture into building a DIY LED light once I set this tank up and cycling. Yeah, I still have to check the dates on the test kits.. I hope they are still good or else.. that'll be another big blow on my small pocket!

I thought about buying used as well... However, I fear Algea and the use of copper. But I'm still keeping my eyes out.. if I do find something and am assured of its quality then I might just scoop it. As for now, I'm saving up as much as I can to get the maximum amount of LR from LFS that I can afford.

I called industrial plastics today and they have aquarium safe stuff available, so I'm gonna check them out next week!!

I really liked the stand it came with perhaps your new one will be even nicer. One heck of a nice setup to purchase altogether! Don't try those radiums out you'll never be happy with LEDs later on =)

I liked that stand too.. infact its on hold for someone who contacted me for it just by looking at my journal.

I don't know about never being happy with LEDs... I've never had either so I can't say.. but for now I'm sticking to Radiums until I start and finish my LED build!

[zhasan]

I've always used this stuff with no problems:
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x353/daplatapus/IMAG0081.jpg
Only one I've ever seen at a hardware store that says aquarium safe.
I have heard of some having it go a bit yellow but I've personally never had that happen. Get it a HomeHardware for $9 for a 3 tube contractor pack.

Thanks! I'll check it out. Seems like an awesome deal for 3 bucks a tube!

I've also found something at Industrial plastics that is Aquarium safe.. Let's see what that is all about!

[zhasan]

Alright folks so I finally got some time to post an update!

My build took a big halt by the end of October because I went down to Mexico just before I started my new job. Came back from vacation and started work right after and didn't step foot in my garage for about 3 weeks.

But then I finally got caught up with things and slowly started painting the stand. Finally its all done!! well atleast enough for me to move on with other things.

Here are some pics... I have a LOT of questions in my mind at the moment that I'll be posting after the pics.. I hoping to come up with some solutions this weekend so I can get going right after new years!!

Here is the stand in its final resting place!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3608.jpg

Side view!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3610.jpg

RO/DI Water mixing station
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3631.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3632.jpg

0 TDS!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3635.jpg

[zhasan]

Alright, so I have a concern with my RO/DI unit..

On the TDS meter, it says 000 for all readings (in and out). Is that possible? or is it possible that my unit may not be functioning properly because its been sitting in storage for more than a year now?

[zhasan]

I'm also a little perplexed about my sump design.

I'm thinking of a 3 chamber sump. First for Drain and Skimmer, second for return and third for fuge.

However, I only have 36" to play with.

First section will be 16" next for return will be 8" and that leaves me with 12 inches for fuge. Is that ample size for fuge and return chamber?

Here is a pic of the "to be" sump!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3637.jpg

[zhasan]

Most of my equipment will be dipped in Vinegar water tonight and cleaned tomorrow! I'm hoping to have the tank up on the stand by tomorrow afternoon!

Still debating whether to put a foam insulation sheet under the tank or not..

The stand top is made out of MDF.. its pretty stable as it is.. What the community's opinion on that?

[daplatapus]

No pics :( well, can't see them anyway...

[zhasan]

Oh my bad... I posted here and then went on to organize my photobucket albums. is there anyway for me to edit my posts?

[zhasan]

I guess I'll just re-post it all for it to make sense!

Alright folks so I finally got some time to post an update!

My build took a big halt by the end of October because I went down to Mexico just before I started my new job. Came back from vacation and started work right after and didn't step foot in my garage for about 3 weeks.

But then I finally got caught up with things and slowly started painting the stand. Finally its all done!! well atleast enough for me to move on with other things.

Here are some pics... I have a LOT of questions in my mind at the moment that I'll be posting after the pics.. I hoping to come up with some solutions this weekend so I can get going right after new years!!

Here is the stand in its final resting place!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3608.jpg

Side view!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3610.jpg

RO/DI Water mixing station
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3631.jpg
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3632.jpg


0 TDS!
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3635.jpg

I'm also a little perplexed about my sump design.

I'm thinking of a 3 chamber sump. First for Drain and Skimmer, second for return and third for fuge.

However, I only have 36" to play with.

First section will be 16" next for return will be 8" and that leaves me with 12 inches for fuge. Is that ample size for fuge and return chamber?

Here is a pic of the "to be" sump!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3637.jpg

[zhasan]

Hey Guys, looking to get some feedback on my sump design.

Here is what I'm thinking of doing.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/SumpDesign_1.jpg

I want to know if 10" height for the baffels good or should I decrease it to prevent potential overflowing.

Also, is it better to have a sand bed in the fuge or LR rubble?

I'll be using a phosphate reactor on my tank, will a fuge with chatoe be redundant?

[Skimmerking]

i would leave the refuge the height like 10.5 and the the baffles have like 3 under over and under keep them around 8" y9ou want ot have somewhat a drain off too like you stated.

However its going to depend on how much water drains off after the pumps shuts down. you can always have a small hole drilled into the return line. Just above the water line so the siphon breaks the water there.

[gregzz4]

or should I decrease it to prevent potential overflowing
Are you referring to baffle overflows, or total volume flooding ?

Depending on what your gph over the baffle will be, you potentially could go almost right to the trim
A 12" wide baffle can handle around 800gph and have a film of less than 1/2" of water

My baffles are almost 18" wide
I only left myself 1/4" from my highest baffle to the underside of the plastic trim
When my el-cheapo socks plugged up, the baffle still handled the flow from both my Eheim 1262 return pump (8-900gph), Compact 2000 (225gph) and 2 MJ600s through reactors

[gregzz4]

If I misunderstood, and you are worried about overflowing of total system volume during power off, I'd go with a bigger return area as that's where all the extra water is going to end up
Your current design only allows for about 3.6g (if it's a 12" wide tank)

[zhasan]

i would leave the refuge the height like 10.5 and the the baffles have like 3 under over and under keep them around 8" y9ou want ot have somewhat a drain off too like you stated.

However its going to depend on how much water drains off after the pumps shuts down. you can always have a small hole drilled into the return line. Just above the water line so the siphon breaks the water there.

The drain in my tank has a little whole at the top with a plastic tube sticking out of it. So I don't think there will be much water draining down as soon as the power goes off. I guess I'll have to check the depth of the drain and the water level I'll keep to calculate the amount of water that might drain down.

[gregzz4]

Mike was referring to a hole in the return line to prevent backsiphoning of the DT
The siphon will break wherever you drill the hole, instead of it siphoning to the bottom of your return outlet
If you go this route, keep in mind that the drilled hole will be spraying water while your return pump is on, so plan where you want it pointing

[zhasan]

Are you referring to baffle overflows, or total volume flooding ?

Depending on what your gph over the baffle will be, you potentially could go almost right to the trim
A 12" wide baffle can handle around 800gph and have a film of less than 1/2" of water

My baffles are almost 18" wide
I only left myself 1/4" from my highest baffle to the underside of the plastic trim
When my el-cheapo socks plugged up, the baffle still handled the flow from both my Eheim 1262 return pump (8-900gph), Compact 2000 (225gph) and 2 MJ600s through reactors

If I misunderstood, and you are worried about overflowing of total system volume during power off, I'd go with a bigger return area as that's where all the extra water is going to end up
Your current design only allows for about 3.6g (if it's a 12" wide tank)

Greg you're right! I was worried about the total system overflowing during power off because it happens in my area often for some odd reason.

What I don't know about is how much water will actually be in the return area constantly when the system is running... is there a way for me to figure that out before setting everything up?

I really like how you did your sump. Very well planned out! unfortunately I don't have a lot of realestate to play with here.

If I have to increase my return chamber size the only way thats possible is if I reduce the size of the refugium. I don't know what the best or at least minimum size of refugium I'd need on my system. Or is it best to go as big as you can?

[zhasan]

Mike was referring to a hole in the return line to prevent backsiphoning of the DT
The siphon will break wherever you drill the hole, instead of it siphoning to the bottom of your return outlet
If you go this route, keep in mind that the drilled hole will be spraying water while your return pump is on, so plan where you want it pointing

Oh I see. My return line also has a hole on top of it.

And I had no idea about the hole spraying water while the pump is on... I'll have to take a look into it. I think I'll clean my tank today and take a few pics and show you guys what my tank's return line and drain pipe looks like!

[intarsiabox]

What I don't know about is how much water will actually be in the return area constantly when the system is running... is there a way for me to figure that out before setting everything up?


If you are using your ATO then the level in the return section should remain pretty constant as this is the only chamber that fluctuates due to evap. (your ATO water will also go into the return chamber).The level will be what ever you set it at by filling the tank with water until it is all filled to your liking.

Assuming your sump tank is 12" and your baffles remain at 10" high you will have about 6 1/2 to 7 gallons of room for your display water to drain into the sump before it over flows.

To calculate how much water will flow from the DT to the sump when the return pump is off measure from the top of the water column down to where the siphon break would be to get your height measuremnet in inches. Now measure the length and width of the tank in inches. L x W x H to get volume in cubic inches and then divide this number by 231 to get gallons.

[gregzz4]

Besides the good advice given while I was writing this letter :wink:

What I don't know about is how much water will actually be in the return area constantly when the system is running... is there a way for me to figure that out before setting everything up?
You set the level in the return area yourself. Enough to keep the return pump from sucking air right before the ATO tops it off is enough to keep the system running. While this isn't an ideal situation, it will give you an idea of how much room you have for powerouts

If I have to increase my return chamber size the only way thats possible is if I reduce the size of the refugium. I don't know what the best or at least minimum size of refugium I'd need on my system. Or is it best to go as big as you can?
If you were to run only chaeto, you could go anywhere from 8 to 12 inches cubed. You want to run a DSB and I have no experience with them, so someone else will have to help you here

I really like how you did your sump. Very well planned out! unfortunately I don't have a lot of realestate to play with here.
Thanks, but I reconfigured it 4 times, so not so well planned out :smile:
I built, then tested, then re-built etc

I see you have a 16" tall tank. I suggest you use as much of that height as you can. You'll need to build a stand for your skimmer, but ...
You'll increase your return area by 2g or so, depending on the height of your baffles. This may be all the powerout room you need. Plus, this will increase your total system volume
Hopefully others with a sump similar to yours will chime in ...

What I did was decide what skimmer I'd want to buy in the future and made that chamber as narrow as possible. I also built it as high as possible
I didn't plan on a DSB, so I built a small hang-inside tank for chaeto (later I built it remote). This allowed me to have it be part of the return area which freed up lots of extra volume for powerouts and total return chamber size

[gregzz4]

This is why I hope others with a similar setup to yours will help out ...

Go as high as you can, but leave yourself enough room under your DT to get equipment in and out of the sump, and to remove your collection cup without hating yourself

[zhasan]

Hi Everyone!! Its been a long time since my last update. I've been working on my build slowly and now its finally taking shape!

Here are the pics!

The tank made its way on top of the stand!! I used a thin layer of wood flooring underlay. I think it worked out very nicely!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3704_zps01adaf14.jpg

Meanwhile the doors wait to be painted!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3640_zps0b044a56.jpg

Time for a vinegar bath!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3744_zps828a0a54.jpg

While the tank get a vinegar bath, I gathered all my plumbing supplies and tools to get down with the wrench and pvc cement!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3703_zpsb975218a.jpg

Sump complete with bulkhead and baffles and water tested!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3747_zpsa60cb75e.jpg

More plumbing... Time for the return pump to get hooked up!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3748_zps8af86499.jpg

Time to test run the plumbing and check for any leaks!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3756_zps26411015.jpg

SUCCESS! No leaks!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3751_zpsfd4c4560.jpg

[zhasan]

Alright, now the fun begins!

Rock is in, Saltwater is in!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3764_zps40bf9777.jpg

All this gloominess is due to the overloead of Micro bubbles that I'm getting. Its extremely frustrating to see them in the display.

Any ideas on what I could do to fix this?
http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3762_zps2fefd149.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3761_zpsa1750587.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3763_zps1c7ca673.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3767_zpsbb60bacd.jpg

I think, I may have screwed up on my sump design. I see this long 'worm like' line of bubbles going in through the return that get blasted all over my tank.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3765_zps9cba81a6.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3766_zps6ed74897.jpg

Here is a shot of the complete setup. I ran my skimmer today as well just to see how its performing. It seems to be doing okay. ofcourse no skimmate just yet. It seems a bit loud atm, will have to look into how I can reduce its noise level.

[zhasan]

I'll be adding about 10lbs of live rock to my tank to properly seed the base and dead live rock. I'm thinking about adding agents like prodibio to aid in the cycling process but have not decided on anything yet. Still have to look into their benefit and costs.

I really need you guys' help on my sump design/return for this micro bubbles issue. I want to get this issue out of the way before I add any live stock to my tank. Please throw your ideas and comments out there for me to learn from and hopefully come up with a solution for my problem!

Cheers!!

[spit.fire]

Put an elbow on it facing down, or even just a strainer should help

[mohammadali]

not everyone likes to eat wood. Just sayin'.

your dad sitting there like a boss

[zhasan]

Put an elbow on it facing down, or even just a strainer should help

Yeah I Was thinking of doing the same. I'll grab it on my way home from work and see how that changes things.

your dad sitting there like a boss

Lol... Yep!

[zhasan]

I'm also thinking about increasing the gap b/w the baffles for the bubble breaker. The water seems to go over top it if I open the drain valve more than 1/2 turn

I left about 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch gap b/w them. Is that less than the optimum gap?

[lastlight]

really nice work on that stand! looks like you really lucked out on the package sale it's all quality stuff which is half the battle.

[zhasan]

really nice work on that stand! looks like you really lucked out on the package sale it's all quality stuff which is half the battle.

Thank you very much! It took a long time but I'm satisfied to have it sit inside my living room and not look tacky!

Yeah, I think I have everything I need... Maybe a few too many things. It's just a matter of getting this sump working right and get the cycle going!

[HaZRaTTy]

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3744_zps828a0a54.jpg

It hurts me to see that powerhead without the zip tie and dryside secured to something. It will be an expensive repair for that thing to hit the ground! Personally I don't take the chance but its up to you!

I love your stand good job I wish I had to patience and time to do that for myself!

[zhasan]

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3744_zps828a0a54.jpg

It hurts me to see that powerhead without the zip tie and dryside secured to something. It will be an expensive repair for that thing to hit the ground! Personally I don't take the chance but its up to you!

I love your stand good job I wish I had to patience and time to do that for myself!

Thanks for pointing that out. I was thinking about securing it too. I've seen a few of those small plastic square sticky things with small zip ties on them but don't know what they are called or where to buy them. Any suggestion on where I can get them?

[HaZRaTTy]

Hey,

Yah no problem they should hve came in your MP box if you bought it new. You would want to secure it on op and having a rimless I wouldn't want to stick that thing on my tank I would make something nice to go On to the top edge.

If you don't mind the stickin part HD carries zip as for the clips HD might have them or try LFS? I hve a few here that I can trade you for your stand.. Haha

[gregzz4]

You can get the adhesive-backed cable tie anchors at electrical supply outlets, or Rona and Home Depot etc

As for your air intake issue in the sump, I don't think it's your bubble trap
It looks like your pump is moving a massive amount of water and you need to either;
A - Put a valve after the pump and slow it down some or;
B - Raise the water level in the return section more ( maybe not ideal depending on your power out level )

What model is that Iwaki pump ? I can't make it out

[zhasan]

Hey,

Yah no problem they should hve came in your MP box if you bought it new. You would want to secure it on op and having a rimless I wouldn't want to stick that thing on my tank I would make something nice to go On to the top edge.

If you don't mind the stickin part HD carries zip as for the clips HD might have them or try LFS? I hve a few here that I can trade you for your stand.. Haha

I don't understand what you mean by securing on top. Do you mean I should rotate the dry end so the wire is sticking up vertically?

You can get the adhesive-backed cable tie anchors at electrical supply outlets, or Rona and Home Depot etc

As for your air intake issue in the sump, I don't think it's your bubble trap
It looks like your pump is moving a massive amount of water and you need to either;
A - Put a valve after the pump and slow it down some or;
B - Raise the water level in the return section more ( maybe not ideal depending on your power out level )

What model is that Iwaki pump ? I can't make it out

Thanks Greg! I'll have to take a visit to HD or Rona to try and find those wire anchors.

I'm concerned about damaging the pump if I close the valve on the return line to slow down the pump's output.

I've raised the water level a little but as well as I've added a 90 on the bulkhead which has significantly reduced the amount of bubbles in the display but there is still that burst that gets in there every minute or so which is just frustrating me!

I'll try to play with the flow today and see how that affects the bubble situation. I think part of the problem is the amount of water thats draining in my sump which causes a lot of bubbles too and they don't have a long enough travel distance before the return to disappear themselves.

btw, its an Iwaki RT30.

[gregzz4]

I don't understand what you mean by securing on top. Do you mean I should rotate the dry end so the wire is sticking up vertically?
Yup, he means having the wire verticle
Here's mine
I've left the ties just loose enough to pull the wire back and forth, and enough gap to use my magfloat

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC01910_zpsf7ec1bd7.jpg

With your return pump, you could easily put a Tee after the pump with a gate valve ( don't use a ball valve, they're irritating to fine tune )
Run the outlet from the valve back to your return chamber
Voila, no back-pressure

[zhasan]

thanks for your tip Greg!

I already had a T with a ball valve that was supposed to feed my fuge but it wasn't operational in the beginning. After your tip, I played around with the ball valve and it worked wonders. I have NO micro bubbles in the display :smile:

I haven't been able to make a trip to the hardware store yet to find the wire ties, however, I made my way down to J&L today and picked up some LR and sand. Rock is already in... gonna do water change tomorrow and rescape the tank and use the putty I picked up today to secure them!

I'm hoping to have some critters in the tank by the end of the week. SO EXCITED!!

[HaZRaTTy]

Awesome, I am sorry I didn't answer your question more clear and able
To pop back and re address. Thanks for the quick bail out Greg.

Keep updating I'm followin along.

[gregzz4]

Glad I could help and that it worked for ya :wink:

[zhasan]

Awesome, I am sorry I didn't answer your question more clear and able
To pop back and re address. Thanks for the quick bail out Greg.

Keep updating I'm followin along.

No worries at all! We're all help each other to the best of our capability and have some fun while sharing ideas!!

Glad I could help and that it worked for ya :wink:

Its much appreciated! If it weren't for you guys, I would've taken my sump apart and redone it and probably would've still been stuck with the same issue.

Anyways, I think its time to get some more pics going!

So I hit up J&L last weekend and picked up some more LR and live sand to properly seed my tank.

So tonight, I got around to finalizing my rockscape and putting in the sand.

Water is very cloudy but I tried my best to not stir it as much. I'm hoping it'll clear up by tomorrow evening! I plan to add some critters on Friday!!

I think the pictures will tell you the rest of the story!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3771_zps7d4e7b41.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3772_zpse1b0611c.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3773_zps9d6d666b.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3774_zps10de0e4e.jpg

[zhasan]

Hi All, a little update on the progress.

The cloudy water is almost gone but not quite. I didn't have my skimmer on thinking all the sand particles might cause damage to it... but now I have it on and it was a pain to tweek it but now I think I have it at the right setting after cups of salt water going down the drain!

Did a water test last night here are the results if you're interested:

NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
PH - 8.0
KH - 11
SG - 1.024

QUESTION:

I'm wondering how to get rid of all that sand in my drain section.. should I siphon it out or let the skimmer do its thing and eventually it'll be gone?

Here are some pics and a vid.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3775_zps8c4d07f5.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3776_zps60c21327.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3777_zps25bb2a70.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3778_zps4e46510f.jpg

[Goatman]

Hi All, a little update on the progress.

The cloudy water is almost gone but not quite. I didn't have my skimmer on thinking all the sand particles might cause damage to it... but now I have it on and it was a pain to tweek it but now I think I have it at the right setting after cups of salt water going down the drain!

Did a water test last night here are the results if you're interested:

NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
PH - 8.0
KH - 11
SG - 1.024

QUESTION:

I'm wondering how to get rid of all that sand in my drain section.. should I siphon it out or let the skimmer do its thing and eventually it'll be gone?

Here are some pics and a vid.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3775_zps8c4d07f5.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3776_zps60c21327.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3777_zps25bb2a70.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/DSC_3778_zps4e46510f.jpg

The glue, as well as the "ruffles" label will come off and contaminate your water....even if slightly.

[zhasan]

Yeah this is a temporary fix. I'm picking up egg crate tonight to make a base for the skimmer.

[zhasan]

Alright, clean up crew is in!!! :lol:

My 250 watt Metal Halide is sitting on top lighting the heck out of my tank and living room!

Here is a list of what I added today:

5 Cerith Snails
20 Blue Leg Hermits
2 Red Scarlets
1 Emerald Crab

Plan to add my first fish next weekend if all stays well till then!

Water column still seems dirty.. I think I need a filter sock to clear things up more.

[FishyFishy!]

Looking Good! I like the progress.

Your water will remain dirty especially with the recently added sand if you don't mechanically filter the water somehow. I recommend filter pads of filter socks for sure. Your skimmer can only do so much of the removal.

Oh... And we need a pic of the lights/light on!

[zhasan]

Looking Good! I like the progress.

Your water will remain dirty especially with the recently added sand if you don't mechanically filter the water somehow. I recommend filter pads of filter socks for sure. Your skimmer can only do so much of the removal.

Oh... And we need a pic of the lights/light on!

Thank bud! Yeah, the water was very murky and still is but not as much. Filter socks are on the way so things should clear up nicely as soon as they're in!

[zhasan]

So, since I have not made my LED fixture yet, I went with my Metal Halide 14K bulb. It lighting things up nicely!

Here are the pics of all the inverts entering their new kingdom!

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3780_zpsbfd0fea8.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3781_zps60e77a25.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3787_zps1fed7051.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3789_zpscd87b7fa.jpg

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3790_zps825a1d14.jpg

[zhasan]

It seems like I've been hit with some Aiptasia in my tank already.

I've already ordered Aptasia X and it should be here in a week or so. What are some steps I can take to ensure it doesn't spread all over the tank?

Should I try to pluck it out? I've heard if you bother it releases toxins and can spread much faster then by using Aiptasia X?

Here is a pic of the one big guy. The smaller ones are all around it.

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_3791_zpse483b698.jpg

[gregzz4]

I like your rockscape

[mohammadali]

buy couple of peppermint shrimp from J&L , peppermint shrimp love to eat all your aiptsia

[zhasan]

I like your rockscape

Thanks Greg!

buy couple of peppermint shrimp from J&L , peppermint shrimp love to eat all your aiptsia

Thanks Ali! I thought of doing that, Infact I was at J&L yesterday to pick them up but then I was also adding fish yesterday. So if I feed the fish, the shrimp will just want fish food and not go after aiptasia.

So, I think I'll try aiptasia x first.... And if that doesn't work, then I'll resort to sea hare unless I can find one soon via my post in the live stock section.

[neoh]

lets see an updated fts. :D

[zhasan]

Hello everyone!!

Its been a long time since I've updated on here. I've lurking around the forum picking up live stock here and there but didn't get enough time to update anything here.

So after my last update, I've added a few fish and a lot more corals. I've had a few casualties as well one of which was probably my fault as I did not feed enough out of paranoia of havning high trates and phates.

Long story short... Tank is doing well at the moment. I've recently started testing for major tank parameters and been keeping a log of them.

I need to start 2 part dosing asap to get some growth out of my corals as well as control the phates as they are extremely high atm.

Params on 11/15/2013 - Before Adding GFO or any sort of dosing

Nitrates 0
PH 8.11
Phosphates .11
Calcium N/A
Magnesium N/A
Alkalinity N/A
Salinity 1.023

Params on 11/21/2013 - After adding GFO and still no dosing (I dosed for the first time ever after this test)

Nitrates 0
PH 8.1
Phosphates .08
Calcium 364
Magnesium 1000
Alkalinity 4
Salinity 1.023

I did not do any dosing from the last check till today. No water changes were done from the last params date till this day.

Params on 12/21/2013 (Before Water change)

Nitrates 0
PH 8.02 (checked at night)
Phosphates .16
Calcium 380
Magnesium 1150
Alkalinity 4
Salinity 1.022

Params on 12/22/2013 (After the water change)

Nitrates 0
PH 8.1
Phosphates .12
Calcium 392
Magnesium 1150
Alkalinity 4.5
Salinity 1.023

I plan to start dosing the tank regularly startign this weekend.

My phosphates are out of control and I'm just not sure why that is the case, given I'm not feeding a lot. I try to change the 10 gallons of water every week. Sometimes I skip a week but otherwise its consistent.

I took some pics last night but haven't had a chance to upload them yet. I'll do that sometime tonight.

Any suggestions on dosing and bringing down phosphates are appreciatied.

[reeferfulton]

Think you definitely need to get tour alk up. Asap.
But slowly over a few days.

[zhasan]

Think you definitely need to get tour alk up. Asap.
But slowly over a few days.

Yeah I just dosed a little today per the instructions on the bottle to raise it up to the optimal level. Hopefully this will help creep up my readings slowly to the right levels.

[mrhasan]

I would be more concerned about the salinity and alkalinity. It would be wise to have the salinity sit around 1.025-1.026 and alkalinity somewhere between 7 to 10dkh (differently reefers maintain different alk). You can take care of phos and nitrate as you move forth fixing those first.

And make sure your test kits are not dead ;)

[zhasan]

I would be more concerned about the salinity and alkalinity. It would be wise to have the salinity sit around 1.025-1.026 and alkalinity somewhere between 7 to 10dkh (differently reefers maintain different alk). You can take care of phos and nitrate as you move forth fixing those first.

And make sure your test kits are not dead ;)

I was keeping salinity low to 1.022 or 1.023 on purpose. I read somewhere on the forum that its easier on the fish to keep it on the lower side. I had it at 1.025 at the beginning but brought it down later.

Would keeping it at 1.025 help with proper growth in corals and healthier fish?

Hoping to get alkalinity up to the desired level by this weekend.

[zhasan]

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6743_zps9ea7a4f5.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6743_zps9ea7a4f5.jpg.html)

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6745_zpsd480609c.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6745_zpsd480609c.jpg.html)

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6741_zps15541223.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6741_zps15541223.jpg.html)

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6739_zpsc8cf74f9.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6739_zpsc8cf74f9.jpg.html)

[zhasan]

Has anyone else noticed these worm type things in their GFO unit? I'm wondering if thats normal or not. Also, this gives you an idea of how much I used as GFO the first time. Any suggestions on how much I should be adding?

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6748_zps423abf10.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6748_zps423abf10.jpg.html)

http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/zhasan1/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6747_zps44dc87a9.jpg (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/zhasan1/media/68%20Gallon%20Rimless%20Reef/DSC_6747_zps44dc87a9.jpg.html)