Algaefix experiment

[cyberdude47]

After battling hair algae this last yr to no avail of winning I decided to give algaefix a try. I ordered some from a supplier in the US because its not available in canada. I will try and post my progression during which time. I did order extra so if this goes well I will have some available for sale but not until I conclude whether its gonna work and if I use all the bottles. I'm battling what I'm thinking it both bryopsis and derbesia. I've taking most measures to battle it from GFO, 30gal weekly water changes, manual removal, daily uses of a baster for detritus removal, and raising of magnesium. My system is a 72 gal bowfront, 50 gal sump, 40 gal fuge. Bubble king mini 200 skimmer ( was a deltec AP703 up until last month) TLF 15's one with GFO ( changed bi monthly) and carbon in the other, and lighting is a vertex illumina 1200. Mg 1800, ca 430, alk 9DKH, phos. & nitrate undetectable. I started dosing today at a dose of 15ml. I took my fuge offline, and stopped running carbon and GFO during this time.
Here is a pic from today
10124

[dreef]

You should be very happy with the results.I found documented use with pics on an american forum.Found a US source and dosed as instructed on the thread.It absolutely nuked my algae problems in a few months.I swear by it,if you have exhausted all other means of fixing the problems.I never lost one fish or coral or invert.

[cyberdude47]

What time period was it before you noticed a difference? You say a few months, how many?

[cyberdude47]

Second dose today, no noticeable difference as of yet. Scrubbed some of the rocks in tank with a toothbrush but left one patch untouched to see if it receded and die off on its own. No inhabitants seem to be affected by the dosing. I've stopped running GFO and carbon but continue to run my skimmer. I'm taking pictures at each dose to show progress which ill try and upload tommorow.

[cyberdude47]

One noticeable event I forgot to document is that on day two I did notice a substantial bacterial film on the surface Of the water. Much more than the usual. I didn't notice any coral stress so not sure if this was from the algae. I have read threads stating that some have noticed this event before and was from the algae beginning to deteriorate

[cyberdude47]

Pictures, pic one is day one, pic two is day three

[dreef]

I can see by your pics that it's already working.I had been dosing for about a month before i could see progress.I should take a few months to rid your tank of all algae.

[cyberdude47]

Dose #3 pic. no signs of stress in any inhabitants thats noticeable, added a cleaner wrasse and a checkerboard wrasse (just for the heck of it) and they seem ok and eating already. it looks like theres some receeding but its hard to tell.

[tim_s]

Scrubbed some of the rocks in tank with a toothbrush but left one patch untouched to see if it receded.

Depending on the specific algae you maybe assisting in propagating it around the tank with this method.

[cyberdude47]

That is true, but I tore apart my tank once already to individually scrub the rocks and caused way more grief than I cared for between accidentally killing off coral, fish and now not having my preferred rock structure anymore. Due to not wanting to keep rearranging as it just causes more stressing the inhabitants

[tim_s]

Understandable,

I do not want to start from the beginning but algafix is great but you still need to resolve where the problem is coming from.

Check your lights if they are tubes you may need to replace them
What are the nitrate levels?
Feeding schedules?
Using tap water?

These are all things that will effect your corals etc as well.

[cyberdude47]

Understandable,

I do not want to start from the beginning but algafix is great but you still need to resolve where the problem is coming from.

Check your lights if they are tubes you may need to replace them
What are the nitrate levels?
Feeding schedules?
Using tap water?

These are all things that will effect your corals etc as well.

I don't want to start over either. As for your questions,
Lighting is LED. (Vertex illumina 1200)
At max 50%
Nitrate & phosphate is undetectable,
even after my massive scrubbing,
Have always ran carbon and started running GFO this last half of this yr.
other parameters are
CA 420-450
ALK 9-10
MG 1600-1800
PH 7.9-8.1
Temp 77

water is topped up with a 4 stage RO/DI and I've never let my TDS go over .005 and use an auto top off with a kalk reactor
Feeding schedules for the last yr and have been cut to a single feeding every 48hrs ( auto feeder) and I only use high quality low phos foods.
I also run filter socks to trap and extra detritus
And I know its not from lack of skimming due to having a deltec AP703 on this system and recently swapped that out to a bubble king 200.
So I'm at a total loss and this is going to be my final take at this battle before i call it and its a tear down

[tim_s]

You are running a skimmer and thus your oxygen should be decent but how is surface agitation in your display tank.

Keep it simple - algae has 3 major variables.

1: lighting is covered by your LED lighting.

2: fertilizer which is covered I your supplements

3: Co2

So my guess is the tests are missing something.

[cyberdude47]

Surface agitation is good. I've got 4 koralias 4's in the tank which disturb the surface quite well. I even have tried segments of turning the lights off for up to 10 days at a time which still had no effect. My guess is the live rock is leeching phosphates as the rock is out of my 500 gallon which had a run of bad luck towards the end of its end which led to some neglect and lack of maintenance out of frustration. And my guess is the phosphates is being used up by the algae which is reason for the skewed readings.

[tim_s]

Well we can prove this wrong,

I imagine if you had enough phos. to cause a major algae outbreak it would be detectable but depending on your corals (ps. I personally have not seen any bad results but some people have reported phosban effecting corals) you can add phosban.

How large are the live rocks?

If you dare or have the capacity you can take one of the larger rocks and rest it within distilled water. You will have die off but Phosphates should collect if your theory is true.

[cyberdude47]

I already run phosban & GFO, and activated carbon as for the test you described. I might consider that after I give this algaecide a try

[notclear]

I read this thread last night and now I have the chance to make some comments. I didn't read the whole thread again this morning so the comments are based on my memory and the previous posts.

1. It is good step to take the refugium offline as it will kill the cheato if there is any.

2. Algaefix won't kill byropsis.

3. For a 75 G tank and if you dose 15ml, you are doubling the recommendation dose. I believe it asks to dose 1ml per 10 G. Don't forget if you have plenty of rock the tank volume will be less than 75G.

4. No need to turn off GFO and carbon during dosing period.

5. Don't dose more than 10 doses or you will risk losing small fish such as dottyback, mandarin, etc.

6. You probably won't see any difference before the 7 doses.

[cyberdude47]

I read this thread last night and now I have the chance to make some comments. I didn't read the whole thread again this morning so the comments are based on my memory and the previous posts.

1. It is good step to take the refugium offline as it will kill the cheato if there is any.

2. Algaefix won't kill byropsis.

3. For a 75 G tank and if you dose 15ml, you are doubling the recommendation dose. I believe it asks to dose 1ml per 10 G. Don't forget if you have plenty of rock the tank volume will be less than 75G.

4. No need to turn off GFO and carbon during dosing period.

5. Don't dose more than 10 doses or you will risk losing small fish such as dottyback, mandarin, etc.

6. You probably won't see any difference before the 7 doses.

To answer your questions.

The Refugio's is offline and has been since July
My tank is a 75 gallon but has a calculated total volume of 140gal as it has a 60 gal sump plus reactors skimmer ect
I'm aware that it won't affect bryopsis and will plan on a tech M cycle once everything is under control and happy again if anything is remaining
It is recommended to shut off all skimming carbon and GFO as it reduces the effectiveness of the product. Even though there are cases of ppl having results while under treatments I choose to try and get the most effectiveness but remain to skim heavily

[tim_s]

I am going to say, Your results are confusing.

First off before I continue as I am going to start looking at the basics you seem a knowledgeable person, which is clear in your responses. My comments are not relative to your ability to keep a tank.

Here are my questions,

1: Skimmer - describe the waste colour.

2: Nitrates - what means are you using to test this? Is your kit in date, are you insuring you are both shaking the bottles and test samples between Bottle # 1 and Bottle # 2

I am really guessing my way through this because your test results are odd. You mentioned you ran "lights out" for 10 days - Do you have photosynthetic corals?

Algae can make use of low spectrum lighting, is your tank facing a window?

[cyberdude47]

I am going to say, Your results are confusing.

First off before I continue as I am going to start looking at the basics you seem a knowledgeable person, which is clear in your responses. My comments are not relative to your ability to keep a tank.

Here are my questions,

1: Skimmer - describe the waste colour.

2: Nitrates - what means are you using to test this? Is your kit in date, are you insuring you are both shaking the bottles and test samples between Bottle # 1 and Bottle # 2

I am really guessing my way through this because your test results are odd. You mentioned you ran "lights out" for 10 days - Do you have photosynthetic corals?

Algae can make use of low spectrum lighting, is your tank facing a window?

Sorry not trying to make things confusing and I do appreciate all help as any knowledge is helpful.

Skimmer collection is a dark green. I've been trying my best to skim wet but with the bubble king its difficult as it wants to overflow
Nitrates are tested with a salifert kit. Now I'm not feeling great regarding the kits results as the kit is a couple years old now and I have had skewed results from old kits and I have ordered new test kits to double check results

I do have photosynthetic coral and SPS which why I ran only a maximum of ten days. I know its quite a stretch but I wanted to try all options. And yes the tank is very close to a French door that leads outside. The windows on the doors do have internal blinds that I leave closed at all times but some ambient light still reaches the tank that I'm aware could be a contributing factor but the tank cannot go anywhere else as the plumbing goes through the wall at that point to the equipment wet closet

[tim_s]

Sorry not trying to make things confusing and I do appreciate all help as any knowledge is helpful.

Do not worry - we will figure it out.

Skimmer collection is a dark green. I've been trying my best to skim wet but with the bubble king its difficult as it wants to overflow

Is it an external skimmer? P.s. Colour sounds fine.

Nitrates are tested with a salifert kit. Now I'm not feeling great regarding the kits results as the kit is a couple years old now and I have had skewed results from old kits and I have ordered new test kits to double check results

Is there an expiry date? Most kits have a shelf life around 2 years or more

I do have photosynthetic coral and SPS which why I ran only a maximum of ten days. I know its quite a stretch but I wanted to try all options. And yes the tank is very close to a French door that leads outside. The windows on the doors do have internal blinds that I leave closed at all times but some ambient light still reaches the tank that I'm aware could be a contributing factor but the tank cannot go anywhere else as the plumbing goes through the wall at that point to the equipment wet closet

Again this will probably not tell me much but is the algae growing on the glass? Is it targeting specific mediums?

[cyberdude47]

The skimmer is an in sump skimmer. There is a slight algae that grows on the glass, It need cleaning every three to four days. I cannot see any expiry dates on the test kits

[tim_s]

Test Kit

I would borrow someones nitrate test, if you buy one I have always been fond of API but this is me - I am sure there is better but API has always served me well!

Lighting

Can you adjust your spectrum? I am familiar with the brand and model but only through friends. - Not personal experience.

History

I am just confirming that even though today you have 0 nitrate / 0 phosphate - you have not had a sudden rise in the last 3 months. Any live stock die recently?

[cyberdude47]

I have adjusted the spectrum in August to shut off red pads and reduce whites to 20%. I threw away my old test kits today and am awaiting my new ones. I did have some livestock die off around the end of August which very well could have been a spike. But I never tested at that point as I almost packed it in at that point and be the time I decided to keep with it it had passed

[cyberdude47]

Dose #4
definetly noticing deterioration at this point. the algae strains are approx half the length of when I started. not noticing any new growth anywhere in the tank. everything is seeming happy.

[tim_s]

This is good news!

I am glad this is working out - I am beginning to think that we are not chasing a current problem but the aftermath of a raise in nitrates that happened recently.

Algae is pretty resilient and once the requirements are met to begin growth, Algae can sustain itself be-it slowly off small amounts of nutrients added to the tank.

[cyberdude47]

I'm hoping that whatever it is/was is the end and a new good beginning. Because I'm done with this hobby for a while if I can't overcome it, to which I hope isn't the case after 16 yrs in the hobby

[tim_s]

Cheer-up! It is only frustrating because we do not know the reason behind the problem but if you break it down to it's core the problem is fixable.

Either the diagnoses is in-correct due to lack of knowledge or the tests are in-correct but either way its fix-able.

--

I moved homes and during the move the largest of my tanks was dropped, the movers promised me everything would be fixed but I had an issue of live stock that needed to be homed that day.

I tried to even give live stock away.

As undesirable as the timing was I was going straight from moving to a packaged holiday down south.

I came home to my friend telling me there was nothing he could do, the power was cut - he could not get a hold of anyone - the accounts where not setup properly for a while.

Needless to say after all the washing was done, I said to my wife "I am done - the tanks are clean, they can be easily sold at this stage. I do not have the time and money to rebuild all this back to what it was. I will cut my losses and focus on some other hobby for awhile."

As I noticed my friends expanding on their setups while I had nothing - I got a little jealous and bounced back.

[cyberdude47]

The tank is without question looking better. Hard to say how much is resulted from the algaefix as I've been taking quite a bit of effort to get things back in balance. I havnt done any water changes during treatment yet. Possible before the 5th dose I will.

[cyberdude47]

FTS today

[cyberdude47]

Dose #5 today, algae is approx 1/2 of what it was at the start. Before being quite long stranded, now it's quite short. I did a water change this morning for some nutrient exporting and then dosed right after. Everything is happy so far. I cannot see any new growth from where I scrubbed and almost no algae has developed on the glass. I will try and post a pic later as I'm full on my pic capacity according to canreef

[cyberdude47]

dose 5 pic

[tim_s]

Looking good!

[Drake1966]

I had problems with my tank, until I started using an algae scrubber. After a month, all of my algae was completely gone. Never looked back!
It's safe, natural and completely works.

Thank God for the small things!

[cyberdude47]

I tried the algae scrubber about ten yrs ago and wasn't happy with the system not the maintenance involved. Plus the space that it utilizes and mess it makes when cleaning are cons to me

[cyberdude47]

Dose #6 today.
Algae is still noticeably receding. It's a slow process but it is noticeable. Not sure how long its going to take to completely irradicate the algae but I'm thinking at the rate that its receding it will probably be at least three times the dosage to date as my tank was quite heavily infested with the issue. I have to conclude that I am thoroughly impressed with the results of the algaefix. Not only have I noticed zero negative results but the tank has been looking exceptionally better and significantly increases water clarity. At the next dose I am going to put my GFO reactor back online and continue to hold back with carbon.

[cyberdude47]

Dose #7
Thinks are looking phenomenal, algae is about an 1/8th of the original started GFO but holding out on carbon. Had to start supplementing coral foods because of the lack of diatoms and other floating debris in the water column corals are extremely healthy. Fish are remaining unaffected. Crocea clam is a bit disgruntled but I think it's cause the cleaner wrasse was picking around him. No algae on glass and may have to start adding Nori for the grazers. I added a MP40 on short pulse mode and is seeming helpful to keeping detritus in suspension. I upped the lighting back to my original program (50%more with red supplement) so ill report the effect on that. The skimmer I'm noticing is working much less these days so I'm thinking its due to the reduction of algae producing organic waste and the detritus not getting trapped into it and causing additional unwanted nutrients. One interesting thing that happened today is when i was observing my tank i put my hand in the tank to place a knocked over coral back in its place an my cleaner wrasse picked at my arm a few times then jumped up at me hit me in the face and fell on the floor.

[cyberdude47]

Today's pic10209

[Enigma]

Very impressive!

[cyberdude47]

I know. I realize this isn't a fix for the originating problem. But I'm finding with my experiment that it is a great solution to getting positive results so a person doesn't get disgruntled and discouraged and can continue to conquer any problems without wanting to give up

[Enigma]

It may knock the algae back enough that the problem becomes more manageable and easy to fix. Also, having your tank look nicer may give you bit of an emotional boost and reignite your enthusiasm for your tank and its maintenance. Sometimes it is hard to get motivated when ones efforts don't seem to be reflected in the way the system looks.

[dreef]

It's an amazing product isn't it :) i just started dosing today as i see bits of brown hairy algae popping up in a few places.Time to change the gfo i'm guessing.

[cyberdude47]

It's an amazing product isn't it :).

It is. I'm definitely sold. Everything I read said it wouldn't work on derbesia and bryopsis but it worked great for me

[Cal_stir]

Do you have any bubble algae, if so, did it do anything to it?

[cyberdude47]

I did have a few colonies of bubble algae but I never documented if it was affected. I cannot see any now but I did add two emerald crabs when I started dosing so I can't say if the algaefix was the result of its disappearance.

[Cal_stir]

I've never had any luck with emerald crabs(I have @ 6 of them now)so I'm guessing the algaefix did it.

Thanks for the thread, good info.

Cal

[cyberdude47]

Today's FTS10210

[cyberdude47]

Dose 9, never reported 8. Algae is almost completely gone. It's hard to see but some fine strands remain that are approx 2-3mm, everything still doing ok other than clam isn't opening but between cleaner wrasse picking and increased flow its hard to determine what's ticking him off. Gonna run a few more doses to make sure all spores are dealt with after everything has died off. Ill list a pic on the next dose

[Snaz]

Glad to hear this is working out for you. What will be most telling is the picture taken two weeks after last dose.

[cyberdude47]

Regarding pictures after dosing I will do just for informational purposes but this experiment at hand is for use of algaefix and its effect on derbesia and bryopsis and i do not have any expectation of the products use to complete any excessive nutrient control, I have skimmed heavily during this experiment and have starting my GFO reactor again. During which time I have only done one 25% water change and used a turkey baster sometimes twice daily to remove any settling detritus. So I'm hoping to have the culprit under control but won't be able to tell until dosing stops

[cyberdude47]

Yesterday was dose #10. Algae is almost completely eradicated. There are still some very faint signs of it though buy difficult to see. Started with carbon again and will continue to dose probably until couple more doses to make sure as many spores as possible are killed off10257

[asylumdown]

This stuff recently saved my tank. I know my algae problem started because of a high nutrient condition, but once it was there, I think I had enough algae to basically outcompete any of the other sources that would normally remove nutrients from my tank. I think it's telling that as Algaefix wiped out the algae in my tank, my phosphate and nitrate levels didn't budge (and they were both near undetectable). It's just a guess, but I think an established mat of one of the various species of GHA is going to be a better competitor for phosphate and nitrate than media running in a reactor. The reactor (biopellets, GFO, etc.) can only instantaneously treat the water in the reactor, which is a small percentage of the water that's made it to your sump. An established bed of algae in your tank is 'treating' all the water in the display tank (where nutrients usually first become available), and over a much larger surface area. And unlike GFO, it doesn't clog or wear out over time; it's capacity to consume nutrients goes up the more it grows.

I honestly think there's more to problem algaes than just nutrients and lighting. There's certainly more to it out on real reefs.

FWIW, This was after 4 doses. I didn't stop GFO or skimming, but have never used GAC:
before:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/asylumdown/file-43.jpg
After:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/asylumdown/file-42.jpg

Before:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/asylumdown/file-40.jpg
After:
http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g411/asylumdown/file-41.jpg

[lockrookie]

I'm thinking of trying this for some minimal algae I have on both tanks thanks for keeping us informed its well worth the try even if it helps clear the water


Sent from my porcelain aquarium

[cyberdude47]

Asylumdown. Thx for the post. Good to know it worked well for someone else also. It also saved my tank because if it didn't get the algae under control I had plans to shut down as I had enough o the battle

[Psyire]

I'm trying a bit of an experiment with this stuff as I'm cycling my tank right now. My goal is just to reduce the algae breakout during the cycling process.

[asylumdown]

The little stubbie bits you could see in the photo I posted are all gone now. This stuff is incredible. It looks like hiding in the masses of the rest of the algae were a couple of patches of Bryopsis though, and man that stuff is stubborn. At least with the super low nutrients it's not growing at all, but it worries me that it's sitting there like a ticking time bomb.

[reefloving]

It's the API brand?

[asylumdown]

yah, API. I didn't think it was made by any other companies? You can get it on Ebay if you find a seller who's willing to ship it to Canada. I tried ordering it from a couple places in the US like Petsmart and some of the big online reef stores and they all have an automated block on Canadian addresses (at least the ones I tried).

[cyberdude47]

I can get it in but shipping it is costly if its just that getting brought in. Ends up being about $40 a bottle unless I order other stuff to bring the cost down

[Psyire]

I found it on a well known auction site and bought 3 bottles for $75 including s/h.

[cyberdude47]

$25 a bottle is pretty good. Way better than what I paid

[dreef]

Both times i bought off off ebay,it came from hongkong.The last time i bought the big 16 oz. bottle,was just shy of 30 bucks shipped to my door.

[cyberdude47]

Been a couple weeks since the last dose. I have seen an increase if algae on the glass but nothing more than a slight dusting. As for hair algae the only spot I noticed that came back is about a 1mm round but in the tip of a acro. Havnt had the chance to test for phos as I still don't have a test kit but by the look of things I'm not terribly worried. The fuge is back online and even the algae growth rates in there havnt been significant. GFO and carbon is still in effect. Clam is still ****y. I tried moving it into the fuge for a bit and it opened back up partially for a while then I put it back in the display tank it again doesn't want to show its face so my conclusion is something's picking at it. Overall I'm going to say that the experiment was a complete success with no noticeable side effects

[Snaz]

Been a couple weeks since the last dose. I have seen an increase if algae on the glass but nothing more than a slight dusting. As for hair algae the only spot I noticed that came back is about a 1mm round but in the tip of a acro. Havnt had the chance to test for phos as I still don't have a test kit but by the look of things I'm not terribly worried. The fuge is back online and even the algae growth rates in there havnt been significant. GFO and carbon is still in effect. Clam is still ****y. I tried moving it into the fuge for a bit and it opened back up partially for a while then I put it back in the display tank it again doesn't want to show its face so my conclusion is something's picking at it. Overall I'm going to say that the experiment was a complete success with no noticeable side effects

Fantastic. I think I will try this with my nano. Thank you for the documentation.