NEW Tank build starts here

[Aqua-Digital]

Well it has been a long time coming but my 24" cube has now left the building, our 3 year old is asking "daddy where have the fishes gone?" and I am left trying to explain they are on holiday while Daddy builds a bigger home for them.

So my corals are at Fish tails in Ottawa having a rest and Concept Aquariums are in the process of building a 36x32x24 tank with the Euro brace made out of one single piece of glass (WOW).

The specs will be as follows

tank size: 36x32x24
Sump: 36x20x18
Sump location: Basement
return pump: TBD
Tank style: dominent LPS but with a few tasty SPS
Lighting: GHL Mitras
Flow: Likely 2 x MP10WES
Control: GHL ProfiLux full configured.
Skimmer: CSC 250

The tank will be the GHL demo and test tank for all new products launched. We then will be doing another system after this for all Ecotech products, my last tank has been running the Radion for a year now, and we will be putting the new Radion Pro on this tank.

I was going to use Marco Rock but Seacare have been cooking some great pieces of LR for me now for a few weeks so I will be using this now.

Aquascaping, I am thinking of a small low level canyon with an arch for the SPS.

Of course photos to follow as things get going.

[subman]

Sounds awesome Michael!! Can't wait to see it developed.

[Aqua-Digital]

Pump choice?


approx 175 gal total volume
10' head
prefer in sump but will consider in line.
Low wattage if possible

What are your suggestions?

[DAVE]

Water Blaster Hy-drive pumps.

[sphelps]

For something quiet and reliable RD 8.2 is probably the right size. Waveline DC-10000 is also probably big enough although I haven't seen any pump curves just that it does up to 16.4 feet. Water blaster is another option although I haven't heard too much about them and you'll need the biggest model. These can all be used in sump.

[Aqua-Digital]

so the next question is turn over rate of water an hour, so I can then decide pump size.

The average google answer seems to be 10x an hour

[sphelps]

For me it depends, 10x is probably a good ball park within reason but the larger the tank to more this becomes impractical if the goal is efficiency and low noise. Going up 10ft I wouldn't aim for more than 1000 gph so a little under 10x in your case. Make up the rest with MP10s or whatever.

What's your overflow and plumbing plans?

[DAVE]

You want your return pump to match your skimmer output.

There is no point in putting 10x the flow through your sump if your skimmer isn't going to be able to handle the water volume that is moving through your sump.

Since you are planning on an LPS dominant system with a few SPS and you are already going to be running MP10's then there is no need to get crazy with your return pump, just have it match or be a little less then your skimmer pump.

[DAVE]

i.e. your skimmer pump is pushing X amount GPH, then your return pump (factoring head loss) should be X amount.

[sphelps]

i.e. your skimmer pump is pushing X amount GPH, then your return pump (factoring head loss) should be X amount.

You're know they are interdependent right? I never understood this approach, design you're sump properly and it will trap lighter organics in the skimmer chamber regardless or display tank turnover. I'd base my tank turnover more on the size of the display and what's needed to effectively surface skim filter out suspended particles/debris.

[DAVE]

Please explain how these are independent.


Your return pump is pulling exactly the same amount of water that is entering the sump. If it wasn't the tank level in your DT or sump would either decrease or increase to the point of overflowing (or draining).

[sphelps]

Your return pump flow rate is independent from your skimmer flow rate, hence matching them doesn't serve a purpose. Unless you feed your overflow water directly into your skimmer you have no way of really assuring overflow water isn't bypassed anyway. Typically a skimmer sits in a sump chamber, and water flows through the chamber to the next. You'll have a very hard time trying to come up with a system that insure overflow water enters your skimmer only once prior to moving on and that no water from the overflow can bypass the skimmer before moving on. Your skimmer is already designed with the correct pump for skimmer contact time so you're better off insuring your skimmer chamber gets a decent turnover rate, once equilibrium hits and your skimmer is sized accordingly to bio load it really makes no difference what turnover rate your sump skimmer sees. It makes more sense to size your return pump to properly skim your display tank and keep organics from settling.

[DAVE]

Your return pump flow rate is independent from your skimmer flow rate, hence matching them doesn't serve a purpose. Unless you feed your overflow water directly into your skimmer you have no way of really assuring overflow water isn't bypassed anyway. Typically a skimmer sits in a sump chamber, and water flows through the chamber to the next. You'll have a very hard time trying to come up with a system that insure overflow water enters your skimmer only once prior to moving on and that no water from the overflow can bypass the skimmer before moving on. Your skimmer is already designed with the correct pump for skimmer contact time so you're better off insuring your skimmer chamber gets a decent turnover rate, once equilibrium hits and your skimmer is sizes accordingly to bio load it really makes no difference what turnover rate your sump skimmer chamber sees. It makes more sense to size your return pump to properly skim your display tank and keep organics from settling.

Your right you can't be assured your skimmer is going to skim all the water coming into the chamber, hence the reason why you try and match it.

You want to try and "Capture" as much water from the DT with your skimmer as possible. Obviously your skimmer is not going to get all the water from your DT, but why would you want your DT draining twice as much water as the skimmer can take up? Ultimately, you are limited by your drains and how much they can handle (depends on the method you want to employ here). A herbie or Bean method can handle much more water then a standard durso.

The other variable at play here is your sump size. Having a smallish sump with a HUGE pump is going to move the water through the sump WAY to fast and really defeat the purpose of the sump. (that is if the purpose of your sump is to filter your DT water)

I don't use my return pump to keep organics from settling, I use powerheads. My return pump is used to get water from the DT to the sump for filtration.

[sphelps]

At the end of the day you got to do what ever makes the most sense to you, you'll never get a solid answer on the subject and asking it just clogs up threads with two knuckle heads like us ;)

[Aqua-Digital]

Ive been quietly sitting on the side lines, I kne this topic would bring out th best debate, its always does, the reason is I do not think there is an answer. As long as the tank is turned over adequately to be skimmed then we are all good.

I have decidded to ignore everyone :) and got for 1.5 times an hour turn over which matches the skimmer.

Next argument: 1 small daily water change or 10% every two weeks?

[DAVE]

At the end of the day you got to do what ever makes the most sense to you, you'll never get a solid answer on the subject and asking it just clogs up threads with two knuckle heads like us ;)

I hear that! Excellent (yet brief discussion) :)

[mseepman]

I think the waveline would be a great option and very low power.

[cale262]

Sounds like the perfect box... How many Mitras are you going to run over it?

[Aqua-Digital]

I am going to attempt one ;) I need to so the spread debate can end, having said that the PAR readings taken in Australia kind of do that for me ;)

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=90491

I am waiting for a bit more info to come through, but the spread looks promising as I always suspected.

[sphelps]

Next argument: 1 small daily water change or 10% every two weeks?

If it's automated then daily, if manual then weekly. Larger quantity less often is more effective than lower quantity more often but you have to consider stability as well.

[reefwars]

sounds sweet ....hehehe i seen your tank and it looks great , the one piece eurobrace looks killer.....im not gonna lie i wanted to steal it lol

subscribed!!

[Cal_stir]

[quote=Hydrologist;752699] but why would you want your DT draining twice as much water as the skimmer can take up?

I use filter socks in my sump so I like the high turnover sump, I also have @ 60lbs of live rock in my sump. My sump is not lit so I don't have coraline algae on the rock and a I believe that makes the rock a more efficient bio filter than the rock in my DT which has a heavy layer of coraline algae on it.

[cale262]

I am going to attempt one ;) I need to so the spread debate can end, having said that the PAR readings taken in Australia kind of do that for me ;)

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=90491

I am waiting for a bit more info to come through, but the spread looks promising as I always suspected.

Well if you want someone to test two of them over the same footprint...:wink:

[Aqua-Digital]

Well if you want someone to test two of them over the same footprint...:wink:

actually yes we do, we need a canreef tester!

[reefwars]

actually yes we do, we need a canreef tester!


oh oh me me lol i have a 30 x 30 x 20 cube and no lights :P:P

[Aqua-Digital]

Ok I think my inbox is about to get flooded.

Give me a few weeks and I will anoounce something.

[DAVE]

I have decidded to ignore everyone :) and got for 1.5 times an hour turn over which matches the skimmer.

I am pretty sure that is what I said.

You want your return pump to match your skimmer output.

[Aqua-Digital]

damn it and there was me thinking I had ignored everyones advise :mrgreen: :lol:

[dave_C]

Hi Michael

here is a little update on your tank
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad223/conceptaquariums/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20MobiltecDave-PC/IMG_0322.jpg

now the little surprise for you:wink: we used the ultra clear silicone on some of the edges and wow does it look good lol
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad223/conceptaquariums/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20MobiltecDave-PC/IMG_0323.jpg

this is what regular silicone looks like
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad223/conceptaquariums/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20MobiltecDave-PC/IMG_0324.jpg


do you see a difference?


Thanks Dave

[Aqua-Digital]

Wow this is amazing! and its my tank :)

Yeah!!!!!!

My Daughter keeps telling me our fish are on Vacation!