Why the hell do people buy clown fish!??? Big problems with mine.

[pseudonym]

Hey all.. well, I am having a problem I never expected to encounter. I have two orange skunk clownfish. They are supposed to be the most passive and community of the clown fish. Problem is, I think they have already killed one of my Atlantic Blue Tangs and the other is looking to be in bad shape. Scars, fins in tatters, the whole bit.

I am honestly wanting to take these little ****ers out and stomp on them I am so mad. NEVER will I buy a clown fish again. Horrible, awful creatures. Sorry to those of you who love them, but after they killed my favourite fish, I will only like the things if they are on a plate in front of me for dinner.

Any suggestions for getting them out without breaking down the entire tank? Also, if anyone wants them, take them. I don't even want to put them in the fuge I am so ****ed off.

[badfish!]

I have a stonefish that would be happy to have them as supper- I mean tankmates :twised:

[pseudonym]

I have a stonefish that would be happy to have them as supper- I mean tankmates :twised:

At this point.. I think that would be too quick. JK, I do want them to have a nice home. They are my little guys and I do love them (just don't love what they do). However, in the end I would rather they be food than flushed or "disposed of".

[MarkoD]

What size tank do you have?

[pseudonym]

What size tank do you have?

29 breeder right now. The tangs are very small juveniles waiting to grow a bit to be transferred to the 90.

Well.. it appears the one Atlantic Blue isn't the only victim. They also killed Oliver, my favourite Spotted Mandarin.

I can't express how much I hate clownfish right now.

[reefwars]

clowns are damsels , everyone thinks they are nice fish but in truth they are territorial as hell just like any other damsel fish.......i hate clownfish lol

[Aquattro]

I love clowns, but yes, horrible awful creatures :)

[intarsiabox]

You roll the dice with any fish, many stories out there of "peaceful" fish being the most aggressive in the tank. I've always had clowns in all my tanks without issue but you never know what will happen anytime new livestock is added. I find clowns are really inquisative so to catch them in a stocked tank I've had sucess by leaving a net in the tank for awhile till they start checking it out and then go after them.

[pseudonym]

You roll the dice with any fish, many stories out there of "peaceful" fish being the most aggressive in the tank. I've always had clowns in all my tanks without issue but you never know what will happen anytime new livestock is added. I find clowns are really inquisative so to catch them in a stocked tank I've had sucess by leaving a net in the tank for awhile till they start checking it out and then go after them.


Well.. I am literally sitting here with tears streaming down my face. I had to almost completely destroy the tank to get those little ****ing *******s out. The rock will not fit back in.. the coral.. I have no idea what will survive now. at least two of the sea stars went out of the water, so they are likely going to die now. Hopefully my noids will be okay, but with the movement and all that ****, I doubt it.

I am so upset right now I really can't express it...

[intarsiabox]

Well.. I am literally sitting here with tears streaming down my face. I had to almost completely destroy the tank to get those little ****ing *******s out. The rock will not fit back in.. the coral.. I have no idea what will survive now. at least two of the sea stars went out of the water, so they are likely going to die now. Hopefully my noids will be okay, but with the movement and all that ****, I doubt it.

I am so upset right now I really can't express it...

I am really sorry to hear that. I've been down that road once before when I had to get a yellow tank out of an established tank as it went nuts and started stabbing all my fish. I had to take out almost all of my rock and hardly any of the fish survived their injuries.:sad:

[MarkoD]

29 breeder right now. The tangs are very small juveniles waiting to grow a bit to be transferred to the 90.

Well.. it appears the one Atlantic Blue isn't the only victim. They also killed Oliver, my favourite Spotted Mandarin.

I can't express how much I hate clownfish right now.

its your own fault.

a 29 gallon tank is barely big enough just for the clowns. putting a tang (regardless of how big it is) in a tank that size is cruel.

you shouldnt be blaming the clowns, you should be blaming yourself

[Enigma]

I know that you're terribly distressed right now . . . but are you sure it was the clowns? That's a lot of carnage.

[mrhasan]

Clowns are territorial and can be even more territorial/aggressive when paired up. I think they just don't want anyone other then themselves in the tank. But on the long run, different clowns are different (some picks on new dwellers and eventually calm down while some will keep on harassing till death).

And about the starfish, they will not die even if they are exposed to the air for a long time. That's just a myth used by many people that stars die if exposed to the air even for a bit.

[pseudonym]

I know that you're terribly distressed right now . . . but are you sure it was the clowns? That's a lot of carnage.

Pretty sure it is the clowns.. they are the only things in there really that even have the equipment to hurt another fish. I don't have many fish at all. The two clowns, a blenny, two spotted mandarins and three dragon faced pipe fish and the juvenile tangs (These are VERY little tangs BTW. About the size of a small clown fish). The blenny will take a swipe at them every now and again, but it is a body swipe and not an aggressive bite. The damage to these fish really has to be seen to be believed. It looks like they have been beaten against the rocks it is so bad.

I can't think of anything else in the tank that could do that. I was thinking mantis shrimp, but I have so many small inverts and stuff, I would expect to see them go, or the pipe fish before the tangs! Not only that, but none of the other fish would be even capable of doing that kind of damage to the fish...

Some good news.. I actually found the second Tang. Bad news.. doesn't look like he will live through the night. It looks like he has been beaten against the rocks nightly. Here is a video of him. He won't even eat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w_rUBnC6Ko&feature=youtu.be

The starfish thing.. I have heard both side of that. I got a Linkia from AI and they said the same thing, we took it out of water when putting it in the tank and it died awfully quickly, so did theirs. Since then I have been paranoid about taking them out of the water. I am really hoping they survive. They are the little red ones and are supposed to be somewhat hardy...

[mrhasan]

The tang is in really bad shape :(

BTW do you have a mantis in your tank?

[pseudonym]

The tang is in really bad shape :(

BTW do you have a mantis in your tank?

One of the reasons that i am so upset. I feel guilty and awful and.. like I let them down. It is horrible to see and that video doesn't even come close to showing how bad it is. I was thinking mantis myself, but it would have eaten all the emerald crabs, pom pom crabs, the various shrimp and then the dragon faced pipe fish before it would attack the tangs like that.. at least one would think so! The dragon faced pipefish especially. It isn't like those little guys are quick on their feet or anything...

Everything else is also really healthy...

[mrhasan]

Yah but it would be, I think, wise to take precaution and remove the mantis. You never know when these pests will start playing the rampage game :neutral:

[Enigma]

You're itty bitty tang looks terrible in that video. :(

Good point on not having any missing inverts or empty shells. That would eliminate most of what I'm thinking of in the way of potential suspects.

I just wouldn't have anticipated this level of aggression from Pink Skunks. If they were Maroons I wouldn't be surprised. This really sucks.

[pseudonym]

You're itty bitty tang looks terrible in that video. :(

Good point on not having any missing inverts or empty shells. That would eliminate most of what I'm thinking of in the way of potential suspects.

I just wouldn't have anticipated this level of aggression from Pink Skunks. If they were Maroons I wouldn't be surprised. This really sucks.

They are orange skunks.. so a bit bigger but supposed to be even more peaceful that pinks! I never expected it as well. I removed the Wrasse as he was harassing the clowns, never expect them to start to do the same to the rest of the tank!

Would losing their anemone cause this kind of aggression? My coloured anemone didn't survive. Was tearing my hair out as to why it was dieing.. then I caught my spider decorator crab eating it! Explains why I had no aiptasia in the display and some in the fuge. They were aggressive to the tangs a before, but since then the big one actually was going into the live rock to harass the tangs. I really noticed it getting bad yesterday, and when I couldn't find a tang today was when I decided that getting the clowns out had to be a priority and tore down the rock.

[reefwars]

Would losing their anemone cause this kind of aggression?


they are naturally aggressive plain and simple :) part of protecting their host

[Northernseacorals]

Pretty sure it is the clowns.. they are the only things in there really that even have the equipment to hurt another fish. I don't have many fish at all. The two clowns, a blenny, two spotted mandarins and three dragon faced pipe fish and the juvenile tangs (These are VERY little tangs BTW. About the size of a small clown fish).

So...

Clowns 2
Blenny 1
Mandarins 2
Pipe Fish 3
Tangs 2
__
10

In a 29 gallon tank, I think it's your fault totally the fish went awol in the tank, you have; in my opinion overstocked the tank.

It's sad yes, and I think you have learned a valuable lesson, I hope you do not have anything else die mate.

[Nano]

+1

Yes its super frustrating, and terribly sad to lose your critters, but as stated when there is so much going on in such a small tank its bound to cause stress or aggression. IMO a tang should never go in a little tank not even as a juvie. Like said hopefully now you understand why you have to take very careful consideration in stocking. I myself have 4 fish in my 35g
2 ocellaris, 1 bangai,1 six line. I don't know if I would go more or not at this point, as the tank is so peaceful compared to when I had two other dwarf fish in there as well, plus bio load is less.

Good luck with the rest of the fish, I would think about maybe letting a few go and decreasing the stress on the tank mates.

[daniella3d]

wow, mine are sweetheart, all of them except the black and white. I have 3 black ice tank raised and they are very friendly with everything in the tank. Even when my copperband go right over their anemone they don't attack it or even react.

In my nano I have one black ice and one black and white and the black and white try to push me away with its tail when I touch near its bubble tip anemone but that's about it.

Nothing really aggressive.

[pseudonym]

+1

Yes its super frustrating, and terribly sad to lose your critters, but as stated when there is so much going on in such a small tank its bound to cause stress or aggression. IMO a tang should never go in a little tank not even as a juvie. Like said hopefully now you understand why you have to take very careful consideration in stocking. I myself have 4 fish in my 35g
2 ocellaris, 1 bangai,1 six line. I don't know if I would go more or not at this point, as the tank is so peaceful compared to when I had two other dwarf fish in there as well, plus bio load is less.

Good luck with the rest of the fish, I would think about maybe letting a few go and decreasing the stress on the tank mates.

I completely disagree on the stocking issue. I would actually say you are over stocked myself. You have three fairly large fish that occupy the same water area as each other, mid level, open water. To me that is too much in one niche. I don't think stocking is such a simple thing. All my fish were choosen based not only on their size, but what they eat, temperament and where the live in the tank. None should have interacted with each other this much. Hell.. the clowns actually came OUT of their living space into the rock and chased after the tangs.

As for the tangs, I really really don't think you understand how small these little dudes are. You wouldn't want to put them in a large tank with other large fish. I don't think they would survive.

[Enigma]

Losing their nem could definately make them anxious and put them in a bad mood, I think. I thought about trying to protect my occ. clowns hosts from them (two clowns, each being hosted by side-by-side torch corals), but I was afraid of ****ing them off.

[pseudonym]

Losing their nem could definately make them anxious and put them in a bad mood, I think. I thought about trying to protect my occ. clowns hosts from them (two clowns, each being hosted by side-by-side torch corals), but I was afraid of ****ing them off.


I am thinking that has to be it. Before they lost their host, they were aggressive sure.. but just about their water area.. which is fine. All the fish in the tank live in different areas, so there shouldn't be much conflict generally. After their host was gone, the clowns started going into the rock rather than staying mid level, open water. That is when things started to go down hill fast. Before that.. things were pretty good! Very peaceful tank with no aggression after I took the wrasse out.

[Nano]

I completely disagree on the stocking issue. I would actually say you are over stocked myself. You have three fairly large fish that occupy the same water area as each other, mid level, open water. To me that is too much in one niche. I don't think stocking is such a simple thing. All my fish were choosen based not only on their size, but what they eat, temperament and where the live in the tank. None should have interacted with each other this much. Hell.. the clowns actually came OUT of their living space into the rock and chased after the tangs.

As for the tangs, I really really don't think you understand how small these little dudes are. You wouldn't want to put them in a large tank with other large fish. I don't think they would survive.

Well if I'm overstocked, what does that make your tank? Just sayin. I mean to put tangs in a 29...

[pseudonym]

Well if I'm overstocked, what does that make your tank? Just sayin. I mean to put tangs in a 29...

As I said, I don't think stocking is a simple question. It depends on where the fish lives and what it eats. You have three fish that live mid water. In a 30, to my mind that is too much. I divide the tank into sections. First, open water fish and in rock fish. Then I look at the level they live in: Top level, mid level, and then lower level (in a breeder I only look at mid and bottom. There are very few actual top layer marine fish for aquaria). Each level and area has to be looked at differently and needs to be stocked specifically for that area. You can have an overstocked area, and still have an understocked tank for instance.

After that you have to look at food, and where that food comes from. Does the fish have a utility role in the tank that reduces bio load? Does it complete for food from the tank with other fish or is it a decorative fish where it's primary nutrition comes from you feeding or does it mostly eat things inside the tank and only need supplemental feeding? All that is a stocking question that has to be answered after you figure out what area the fish lives in.

As I said, not a simple question. In your case I would say that you have your mid level, open water area over stocked, your mid level, in-rock area contains a wrasse and the rest have no stocking at all.

That is just my view on it of course.

[Nano]

:neutral:
K......

And you have a lawn mower blenny ripping around every where, clowns which basically protect their hosting spot, 2 tangs which in a tank that size will swim where ever they can to keep up with the tiny space they are crammed into, 3 pipefish, and 2 mandarins which are all pod eaters (so wouldn't that mean they are competing for food? Especially in such a small tank?)... I'm not going to argue this with you. My post count for the day is getting to high. Plain and simple I may be overstocked in my open water, but yet I have no problems in my tank aggression wise.. weird.. :lol: I was just trying to help like everyone else, but seems I said something you didnt like, maybe it was the tang remark? Anyways you didn't like it so you start pointing the finger at me.. not a good way to get help here.

Time for some wobbly pops :P

[pseudonym]

:neutral:
K......

And you have a lawn mower blenny ripping around every where, clowns which basically protect their hosting spot, 2 tangs which in a tank that size will swim where ever they can to keep up with the tiny space they are crammed into, 3 pipefish, and 2 mandarins which are all pod eaters (so wouldn't that mean they are competing for food? Especially in such a small tank?)... I'm not going to argue this with you. My post count for the day is getting to high. Plain and simple I may be overstocked in my open water, but yet I have no problems in my tank aggression wise.. weird.. :lol: I was just trying to help like everyone else, but seems I said something you didnt like, maybe it was the tang remark? Anyways you didn't like it so you start pointing the finger at me.. not a good way to get help here.

Time for some wobbly pops :P

The tangs are very young so are currently in-rock, mid level fish. Clowns are generally mid level, open water fish and it wasn't until they lost their host that they started going out anywhere else. I am thinking they were exploring to find a new host. Now the pipefish and the mandarins! I knew you would bring those up. First, they live in VERY different areas of the tank and hunt in different areas. The pipefish are bottom, open water and the mandarins are bottom, in-rock. They do slightly compete, but not how you think. The mandarins like a larger size of pod than the pipefish. So they hunt different life stages of their food. In addition, I do supplemental feeding of artemia for both animals as well as the crinoids and dendro.

I realize your opinion is that the tank is overstocked and that is why I am having aggression issues. However, you fail to take into account the changing situation in the tank and the fact that it was very very peaceful until the clowns lost their host. None of that has to do with stocking. Quite simply, your explanation doesn't account for the entire situation.

Quite simply, I think you have an easy answer that you like to kick out. You like it because it is hard to refute and you think that you must be right because you don't have the same issues. That is specious logic my friend.

If it was a stocking issue, I would have had aggression issues FAR earlier than this. Sorry to burst your bubble. I think you look at stocking is a far too simplistic fashion myself. But, each to their own.

As I recall, I was asking for info, not help (other than how to catch the things). Stop thinking that you are handing out pearls to swine. I came here for a discussion, not to hear you lecture without challenge.

[Nano]

:razz:

Ok
Good luck

[mrhasan]

First the aggression started with the clowns and now this :sad:

[MarkoD]

You are overstocked. It's pain and simple. Just seems like you can't handle the truth

You put those fish into an enclosure that's too small and they acted based on instinct.

29 gallon is barely enough for 2 clowns to live alone.

Now get over it and move on and stop arguing.

[pseudonym]

First the aggression started with the clowns and now this :sad:

sorry, not trying to be aggressive. However, I find the attitude that some members have to be.. well.. down right hostile. Nano is a very good example in this thread. Simplistic answers to questions that no one asked used as a way to one-up someone else is not what I would consider constructive. I tried to answer his questions constructively, but when it is apparent that the person only wants to troll .. I don't have time for that BS.

[Aquattro]

Please leave the name calling off the board, k?

[MarkoD]

You're the troll here. Putting tangs in a 29 gallon tank? And then talking about mid level and lower level? How high is a 29 gallon tank? 18 inches?

That's not the ocean where fish live at different depths.

I have a 180 gallon tank and my tangs are all over the place. I also have 2 clowns that have never shown any signs of aggression.

[pseudonym]

Please leave the name calling off the board, k?

Ummm.. name calling? What the hell are you talking about man?

[MarkoD]

Please leave the name calling off the board, k?

Ban for animal cruelty

[pseudonym]

Ban for animal cruelty

MarkoD, you are the last person I would expect to be in here making troll remarks. Rather surprising. Perhaps we should talk about your attitude to water changes again?

You should be the last person egging this BS on and giving simplistic answers. Makes me rather regret standing up for you in that thread.

At this point I am declaring this a gas thread. You guys can continue to troll each other, but really.. this isn't where I go to do forum PVP. Night!

[Northernseacorals]

Ummm.. name calling? What the hell are you talking about man?

Careful or you might get the size nine for talking back :-)

Just be nice, and accept the fact people are here to help you; not make you feel bad, you are taking it all the wrong way.

Big deep breath :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

At this point I am declaring this a gas thread. You guys can continue to troll each other, but really.. this isn't where I go to do forum PVP. Night!

With that, we'll call it a night....