Water Changes using NSW from White Rock

[dare2dv8]

Doing some reading and thinking about using nsw for partial Wc's but before I attempt I thought I'd ask if anyone else in the Vancouver area has been successfully using local water in their tanks. If so, where do you collect it from and if you've tested the water what are its parameters?

Last visit to the Vancouver aquarium I had a great chat with a staff biologist who told me all their water is local nsw pumped in but filtered. Said it was better quality going out then coming in.

I'm an hour and a bit from White Rock so not thinking about abandoning asw just to collect a bucket or three whenever I'm in the area.

[Aquattro]

When I tested water here outside of Victoria, all levels were low. SG was about 1.019, which is attributed to FW run off. You'd have to pump from farther out and deep.
You'll also notice the whitish brown foam along the shore, that's nature's protein skimmer, and that's a lot of junk. White Rock is off of a shipping lane, so the likelihood of petroleum products in the water is high.

[dare2dv8]

Did you ever use the nsw yourself just adding some salt mix to bring up the SG?

[dare2dv8]

My concern with White Rock is the mud flats are so shallow I'd want to attempt it in an incoming tide and wade out pretty far.

[Aquattro]

Did you ever use the nsw yourself just adding some salt mix to bring up the SG?

No, honestly, I wouldn't add that to my tank for any reason. No idea what's in it. The cost of salt is pretty small compared to the cost of rebuilding from an unknown toxin.
I did use it 20 years ago on a cold water local tank, but the livestock was collected locally. They would be acclimated to the water, so safe enough.

I do know a guy here that used to use it on a 2000g tank. He decided it was better to buy salt for a 200g water change, and so far he feels it's been worth the difference he sees in his tank.

[Aquattro]

My concern with White Rock is the mud flats are so shallow I'd want to attempt it in an incoming tide and wade out pretty far.

I think you'd need to wade out about a mile and go down half that :)

[sphelps]

Seems like a strange thing to do, harvesting saltwater and transporting it a decent distance for the only goal I imagine being saving money. If you collect 20 gallons of water that's around $5 worth of salt savings, not sure about you but I wouldn't even load the buckets for $5. The risk of introducing something is extreme unless filtered properly which will cost far more on such a small scale.

If you study your history you'll discover one of the biggest advancements in the hobby was the production of synthetic sea salt. Take advantage of it.

[dare2dv8]

$ can't be the issue being I'd spend the same amount of $ on gas as a bucket of salt...

Reading, I've found that a lot of people use nsw successfully and as advanced as asw has become you've got to remember everything in our tanks over millennia managed to survive in the ocean. For me, the question isn't nsw verses asw but the local quality of coastal nsw and the possible negative effects of human activity. If it's good enough for the Vancouver aquarium...Albeit in a filtered state. Next time I'm there I'll see if I can find someone to tell me what they're filtering and why.

[Aquattro]

But to what end? There doesn't appear to be any advantage, other than the exercise carrying buckets around :) What is it you hope to gain over salt mix?

[dare2dv8]

Question I'm pondering is would nsw contain micro fauna in the water column that would be of benefit to corals and other inhabitants. Also wondering if it would contain a more natural diversity of bacteria that periodically added to a tank would help with the overall health.

I realize it's a debated practice that's why I asked if someone had been using it locally and to what results.

[Aquattro]

I think the local plankton would be temperature acclimated and die off at our tropical temps. As I said, a friend of mine used it for a long time on his large tank, taking water from about 100ft offshore, and now that he's moved to artificial salt, his tank is doing much better growth and color wise.
Coupled with the risk of some unknown contaminant, I wouldn't risk it on my display tank.

[MKLKT]

I think the local plankton would be temperature acclimated and die off at our tropical temps. As I said, a friend of mine used it for a long time on his large tank, taking water from about 100ft offshore, and now that he's moved to artificial salt, his tank is doing much better growth and color wise.
Coupled with the risk of some unknown contaminant, I wouldn't risk it on my display tank.

This and the fact that the stuff in the water here is made to operate at a much slower pace. If the bacteria are different it might be a totally different ballgame at higher temperatures. It's just a waste if you have to supplement as now the levels may not be balanced easily. Remember that most of the crud and oils are on the surface (why it's good to skim the surface in your aquarium) so you'll basically be taking a whole ocean's junk pile and putting it in your tank.

[FragIt Dan]

I work at DFO as a marine biologist and looked into this extensively (I currently have about 400G of tanks going). After consulting with several people at work in different disciplines, I decided it was definitely NOT something I wanted to do. The 'pros' list is short... some plankton and bacteria can be beneficial, but there are products designed to feed your corals that will do much the same and in most cases in a far better way. The 'cons' list is long... think of what the common flu virus did to North America when it was first introduced. You are exposing your tank to a heavy inoculation of viruses, bacteria and plankton for which your inhabitants have limited or no natural defenses. Furthermore, the phosphate levels are far higher than I could figure out how to deal with for cheaper than making my own ASW. You would also not want to store the water for any period of time as I suspect a die off of the plankton and associated spike in ammonia etc. There is also a long list of other contaminants that can accumulate in your tank. The Vancouver aquarium is set up on large scale industrial type filtration with heat exchangers and a bunch of other toys. I have seen ASW mix in the 'behind the scenes' area (I was a diver there for a while) and always assumed they made up there own for their tropical displays, but looking at Aquatro's comments, they might only be bumping the salinity up (but I highly suspect they are not using even filtered local ocean water for their tropical systems that house corals). I would strongly discourage you from trying to use local water regardless of treatments. It is my opinion the gains you are looking for can be had to a much greater degree, far safer and with much less expense in time (and $$) using a simple coral food. I ran the numbers to calculate how much water I would need to produce a bottle of coral food with similar plankton density as some of the commercially available products (I ran density analyses on them myself)... 1000's of gallons of local seawater to get a single bottle of product. This was not going to be my get rich quick scheme :),
Dan

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

If you ever see a behind the scene's tour of the Van Aqua. you'll see that they have huge, very extensive sand & other filtration systems and their nsw is not collected near the surface, which is what you would be doing.

You're much more likely to contaminate your tank and kill off your tropical livestock than see any benefits.

Coldwater BC tank, go for it. Reef tank = NO.

[burgerchow]

Or, you could move to Hawaii, get a beach house and run continuous sea water into the tank. Use the ocean as your sump. LOL

Actually, the Waikiki aquarium uses water pumped in from the ocean.Much cleaner and pristine looking water than ours.

If I lived on waterfront property in White Rock, I would do a large coldwater tank and just pump in sea water directly into the tank and overflow directly back into the ocean. Wouldn't even need a filtration system. ( this assumes the intake would be at least 10 feet below the surface of the water, where there are very little temperature fluctuations, and hopefully, less scum)

[dare2dv8]

I work at DFO as a marine biologist and looked into this extensively (I currently have about 400G of tanks going). After consulting with several people at work in different disciplines, I decided it was definitely NOT something I wanted to do. The 'pros' list is short... some plankton and bacteria can be beneficial, but there are products designed to feed your corals that will do much the same and in most cases in a far better way. The 'cons' list is long... think of what the common flu virus did to North America when it was first introduced. You are exposing your tank to a heavy inoculation of viruses, bacteria and plankton for which your inhabitants have limited or no natural defenses. Furthermore, the phosphate levels are far higher than I could figure out how to deal with for cheaper than making my own ASW. You would also not want to store the water for any period of time as I suspect a die off of the plankton and associated spike in ammonia etc. There is also a long list of other contaminants that can accumulate in your tank. The Vancouver aquarium is set up on large scale industrial type filtration with heat exchangers and a bunch of other toys. I have seen ASW mix in the 'behind the scenes' area (I was a diver there for a while) and always assumed they made up there own for their tropical displays, but looking at Aquatro's comments, they might only be bumping the salinity up (but I highly suspect they are not using even filtered local ocean water for their tropical systems that house corals). I would strongly discourage you from trying to use local water regardless of treatments. It is my opinion the gains you are looking for can be had to a much greater degree, far safer and with much less expense in time (and $$) using a simple coral food. I ran the numbers to calculate how much water I would need to produce a bottle of coral food with similar plankton density as some of the commercially available products (I ran density analyses on them myself)... 1000's of gallons of local seawater to get a single bottle of product. This was not going to be my get rich quick scheme :),
Dan

Thanks Dan for taking the time to answer and pass on the information that you gained in your research. Exactly what I was hoping to find... somebody who's tried it or studied it thoroughly enough to give an informed response.

Craig

[FragIt Dan]

Thanks Dan for taking the time to answer and pass on the information that you gained in your research. Exactly what I was hoping to find... somebody who's tried it or studied it thoroughly enough to give an informed response.

Craig

:) my pleasure. Glad to save you the time and headache,
Dan

[tang daddy]

If we were near any coral reefs I would say it's safe, being that the only things growing is 8 legged starfish and barnacles of the docks of white rock.... One would wonder how beneficial it would be, also I reckon you water maybe alittle murky.

[reefwars]

i tried it for a bit back east , you can bet that didnt last long...getting the water was a pain in the butt as was trucking it back home.


my salinity was always low at 1.012 -1.015


water was also very green from algae blooms, so t had to be filtered and skimmed before even using it:P


i love salt in a bucket:P