404 Fluval throw it off the balcony party!

[bulletsworld]

Yeah, I'm the sad owner of a 404 Fluval… peace of crap! :bad-word:
And if that doesn't put insult to injury, it’s the second 404 Fluval canister filter broken down now on my 77gal, that I own. Motor on them starts overheating, burns out. I had my Fluval died on me last night at 12a.m! AHHH!! Anyone come across this problem? Parts center? Worth fixing?

If you own one, then you already feel my pain when it comes to cleaning this damn filter. Add the pressurized canister lid that spills the water everywhere when lid is opened, even though you have to pull the hoses out. Then when you are done cleaning it you have to sit beside the canister & try to pump the water through to get it going! Most of the time you worry if it’s going to start again! AHHHHH!!!

O.K, so throw your Fluval off the balcony party at my place! Gotta bring a Fluval canister filter though! : Will tape it and send to the manufactures. :multi:

[martym]

I've had 1 203 and 2 304's and love them. Never have had a problem, other than the primer.

[kuatto]

I have the newer ones(304,404)so far no probs,except when i decided to open one while it was still runnin and damned neared electricuted myself when i paniced and tried to unplug :rolleyes:

Jim

[bulletsworld]

:lol: I could see that happening.

[bulletsworld]

Hmm... called Big Al's and go figure they discontinued Fluval! Guy told me, "yeah thats a common problem". :eek:

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Need new filter! Don't know how long the 200 Aquarclear will hold up on my 77gal. Even with the protein skimmer running full blast. EEK! :eek:

Anyone selling a filter? Whats a good filter these days?

[Buccaneer]

Whats a good filter these days?

LR & LS ???? :razz:

[Bob I]

I currently use two 204's and a 104. They have never given me a lick of trouble. :mrgreen:

[Quinn]

What Steve said.

What kind of skimmer do you have again?

[EmilyB]

The external Fluvals, the larger models, are definitely balcony party material.... :mrgreen:

[kuatto]

Let me step forward and say I am willing to remove any unwanted fluvals and properly dispose of them in accordance with bylaw 12-58-99 section c :mrgreen:

Jim

[Beverly]

Leeanne,

I'm fond of Hagen 802's with Quickfilter. You've seen them in my tanks and I think I explained how I use them. If you need more info, PM me and I'll explain further.

I usually buy them at Super Pet at Mayfield Common. Cheaper there than at AI. Don't think BA's carries them.

[reefphish]

I've had a fluval 104? for almost 18 years.

Used it off and on with numerous setups (fresh and salt) and most recently as an "easy-peasy" calcium reactor for my reef.

sorry to hear they have caused some grief and will be discontinued

:neutral:

[kuatto]

what if any mods did u do to make it a calcium reator?

Jim

[bulletsworld]

Hear the smaller models have no probs but I got the big model. The 404. JUNK! But its got a good bio filter system i though besides others.

I'm runnin a SW tank, 77gal with LR & LS.

I ran around last night after work to find Fluval 404 filter parts. YEAH! Got sales guy to look at my broken filter, sold me some parts, even tested. Got it home, installed parts & after the stores closed the Fluval died...AGAIN! Overheating. AHHH!! On emergency backup only a 200Aquaclear & prism skimmer.

Suggestions on a new filter?

[bulletsworld]

I'm fond of Hagen 802's with Quickfilter.

Yeah I remember those filters you have Bev, now that you mentioned it. I was just concerned that those filters have to be pulled apart and cleaned every week. Hmm... thanks for the tip though I will go to that store and check em out.

[Beverly]

Yeah I remember those filters you have Bev, now that you mentioned it. I was just concerned that those filters have to be pulled apart and cleaned every week. Hmm... thanks for the tip though I will go to that store and check em out.

The 802s don't HAVE to be pulled apart every week to be cleaned, but they, like evrything else, work a heck of a lot better when they are cleaned weekly. The Quickfilter attachment comes off easily. This is where the foam media (or the fibre media that comes with the Quickfilter) is located. The media, ime, should be cleaned at least once a week to get rid of the vast amounts of crap and other crud it pulls from the water. If left too long, the media gets too full of crud and reduces water flow.

Hey, I'm wondering why your Fluval overheated. How often did you clean the media in that thing? Could be that sporadic cleaning may have made the thing work harder causing it to heat up and burn out. Just a thought, anyway. Fluvals and their ilk give me the shivers :eek:

Anyway, in a 77g, I'd use two 802s. In our 72g, we have two on full throttle. If you'd like to stop by tonight before heading to the store, let me know and you can see how we've set them up for maximum water movement throughout the tank. Better than just looking at boxes and trying to figure out what the heck they do ...

[RobbAdams]

I have always used EHEIM canisters, and NEVER had any problems, but this was in FW tanks, but with high bio load(African cichlids) I would only have to clean it 3 or 4 times a year. they cost more, but are worth every cent in my opinion! Saw them advertised on sale in the paper today for I think $199, this was for the 2026 which could handle your 72 no problem. Check the Calgary sun in their little pets section, it was one of the Chain type pet stores, but Big Al's should match it.

[RobbAdams]

OOps your in Edmonton, sorry! I think it was petsmart, or petland, so the sale may be on there as well.

[bulletsworld]

hey thanks for the tips guys.

Hey bev, I might just call ya stop buy and take alook. Cause so many boxxes out there and yeah really confusing!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey RobbAdams,

yeah I was looking at the Ehiem's. But I got SW not FW. Wonder if one would be good..Hmmm

[bulletsworld]

Any have a:

Rena FilStar xP3 Canister Filter?

How about Ehiem, anyone got one on SW on a 75gal+?

Damn so many filters dont know which to choice. What does everyone have?

[EmilyB]

Whatever you do DON'T touch a Rena Filstar. :eek: That was a $300 mistake I learned a LOT from. They were SO bad, the LFS pulled them from their shelves.

I've never owned an EHEIM but all I have ever heard is good about them.

[bulletsworld]

really?

So no good hey?

Damn now what am I going to get?

HELP! HELP! Have to buy one today!!!

[bongy]

If the budget is not too tight, definitely get the Ehiem.

I have two eheim now.

I used to own a 403, then, upgrade to a 404, then upgrade to a "Eheim".

I thought the 404 has a better design than the 403, however, it is still nothing comparing to the Eheim.

Meanwhile, my old eheim professional (bought before the 403) is still running fine. Take less than 10 minutes to clean. Both of my friend's Fluval 404 has died already.

Bongy

[Beverly]

Hey bev, I might just call ya stop buy and take alook. Cause so many boxxes out there and yeah really confusing!

You still have my number? PM me if you don't. We'll be in all evening. If you come before 6:30, I'll demo a cleaning.

As for Eheims, they're the same set up as Fluvals, only more expensive and better made. But you're still going to have to prime them and everything else just like the Fluvals.

[bulletsworld]

really thanks bongy,

researching the Ehiem now. Damn so many modelsl :eek:

[Chad]

really thanks bongy,

researching the Ehiem now. Damn so many modelsl :eek:

I use an Ehiem right now, I think it is the 2210? I might be wrong. I use it with my Freshwater tank right now.

Has never caused me a single issue.

[bulletsworld]

Hey thanks Chad. Damn Ehiem way more expensive though. Really seems to be no difference in product though.

Any thoughts anyone on the Rena FilStar xP3 Canister Filter?

[Beverly]

I have always used EHEIM canisters, and NEVER had any problems, but this was in FW tanks, but with high bio load(African cichlids) I would only have to clean it 3 or 4 times a year.

3 or 4 times a year :eek: So all the crap it traps stays in the system and the thing becomes a nitrate factory :confused: I don't see anything positive about that, if you don't mind saying so.

[bongy]

I have always used EHEIM canisters, and NEVER had any problems, but this was in FW tanks, but with high bio load(African cichlids) I would only have to clean it 3 or 4 times a year.

3 or 4 times a year :eek: So all the crap it traps stays in the system and the thing becomes a nitrate factory :confused: I don't see anything positive about that, if you don't mind saying so.

Hi Beverly,

But he is using it in FW. You WANT it to be a nitrate factory! Not that I am saying cleaning 3 or 4 times is good or bad, it just depends on what he is using it for.

Hi bulletsworld,

Yes, eheim is a lot more expensive. But for me, it does cost cheaper to get a eheim right away than to buy a 403, 404 and end up buying a eheim anyway.

Here is my objective (atleast try to be) comparison between Fluval and Eheim Professional 2026.

Flow rate:
The initially flow of Fluval is greater but it does slows down significantly especially if you are using it on planted tank. The Eheim is able to maintain the flow a whole lot better.

Filter Media:
I think both contain roughly the same volume. However, fluval does offer more compartments and places for sponge. My eheim only have two compartments.

Cleaning.
Although 404 has a big improvement in ease of cleaning over 403, it still doesn't even come close to the eheim. If not close properly, my fluval will sometimes leak.

Priming.
My fluval takes a long time to prime after each cleaning. I sometimes need to shake the filter to get the air out, etc. I does take a while for the fluval to get going again, most of the time, there are lots of bubbles. I never have this problem with my eheim as long as my water level is full.

Quality.
My old Eheim 2222 just seem to out lask the two fluval. I got two friends who also own 2 fluval 404. Between us three, we have problems with sealing, motor, the plastic locking thing, etc. The eheim is a much better build.

The two filters does look similar and do the same thing but so does BMW and Ford.

I think the best way is to go to the store and play around with the filter to try it yourself.

Bongy

[Beverly]

But he is using it in FW. You WANT it to be a nitrate factory!

What am I missing here??

In neither fw or sw does one want high nitrates, unless it was a planted tank where the plants would utilize the nitrate (and phosphate) from the decomposing crap. My sw tanks all have some sort of macroalgae utilizing nutrients and even with weekly media cleaning/15% water changes, I still have detectable nitrate, usually about 10-15 ppm.

[bongy]

Hi Beverly,

The way I understand it, for non-plant FW tank, you use the filter to convert Ammonia and Nitrite to Nitrate. Without plant, the only way to remove Nitrate is by periodic water change. Therefore, for FW, the job of the filter is to produce Nitrate. Then, the less-toxic Nitrate is removed by water change.

For my plant tank, actually, I prefer the plant to take up Ammonia directly (hopefully even before the filter convert it to Nitrate). That's the way I hope my filter is working now. :lol:

I agree. Whether it is plant, non-plant, FW or SW, it's better to have no or very little nitrate in the tank. However, the mechanism to get there is different.

Bongy

But he is using it in FW. You WANT it to be a nitrate factory!

What am I missing here??

In neither fw or sw does one want high nitrates, unless it was a planted tank where the plants would utilize the nitrate (and phosphate) from the decomposing crap. My sw tanks all have some sort of macroalgae utilizing nutrients and even with weekly media cleaning/15% water changes, I still have detectable nitrate, usually about 10-15 ppm.

[Ken]

I like to join the party, but I'm too far away. On smaller tanks, I perfer an aqua500 power filter, never need to shut off the electrical when I need to clean the sponge or replace the carbon. My advice GET RID OF that 404!

[bulletsworld]

Quality.
My old Eheim 2222 just seem to out last the two fluval. I got two friends who also own 2 fluval 404. Between us three, we have problems with sealing, motor, the plastic locking thing, etc. The eheim is a much better build.

The two filters does look similar and do the same thing but so does BMW and Ford.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Ain't that the truth!! :lol:

Hey thanks bongy for all your input, greatly appreciated! Yeah I now have 2 broken down Fluvals of the model 404. I think I would be just a sucker to go buy another one. The problems with sealing, motor, the plastic pressurized need mussles to lock top on & the priming of the unit (Air in hose) & shaking to get going has been my headache since I got this tank. Yeah had it with Fluval although they do have a newer model with fixed upgrades they say. Tempting though since its what i already know.
...Ummm. NOT! :lol:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I shopped in everystore last night, ending up at my last store stop empty handed with frustration of everyone telling what product was the best. To the last store...the reef guru himself, to ask me this question in some many words...

Why do I need a canister filter. Why not scrap the idea all together, save the money & run system on a skimmer & powerhead for the flow ONLY. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Can it really be done sucessfully providing I have a good skimmer?
Am I opening up a can of worms? Will my tank fall off it axial? Having a cowfish though doesnt running the carbon in the filter help remove released toxin if any? Would I be pushing my luck?

Thoughts anyone?

[mr_alberta]

Hey,

Why don't you skip the canister, get a nice protein skimmer and a smaller aquaclear filter (like a 200) just to run carbon? Then you would have 3 sources of flow in your tank: skimmer, aquaclear and powerhead.

[RobbAdams]

Sorry I guess I should have clarified that my tank contained tons of Vals! and I did a 25 gallon water change at least once a month.But either way, it really processes waste well, breaks it down quite quickly. Also the new pro II models apparently have a priming unit built in.

[Quinn]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of using mechanical filtration methods (other than protein skimmers) on saltwater tanks is in the first place. :question:

[Beverly]

Quinn,

I don't run skimmers, refugs or sumps on any of my three reefs, only use mechanical filtration. Works pretty well, only the media requires at least weekly cleaning depending on the bioload.

Our first reef, a 75g started up in 1998, used both a skimmer and mechanical filtration. Skimmer skimmed well, except for the occasional overflow :evil:. IME, skimmers don't pull out the larger particulate matter which mechanical filtration does best. Again, depending on bioload, media needs to be cleaned weekly even with a skimmer, which also benefits from weekly cleaning, IME.

I dunno, but the combo of skimmer and mechanical filtration, without refugs and sumps, is a useful, two fisted approach to crud removal and nitrate reduction. JME, though....

[bulletsworld]

Hey,Why don't you skip the canister, get a nice protein skimmer and a smaller aquaclear filter (like a 200) just to run carbon? Then you would have 3 sources of flow in your tank: skimmer, aquaclear and powerhead.

Hey that could work! Even have a 200 Aquaclear already. Maybe I'm wrong to think carbon even helps remove cowfish toxin if released? Does anyone know? :question:


I'm still trying to figure out what the point of using mechanical filtration methods (other than protein skimmers) on saltwater tanks is in the first place. :question:

Yeah me 2 now that I think about it. Thats why when I was told "why not scrap the whole idea of replacing the canister filter, add more rock, add powerhead for flow & get a better protein skimmer as the mechanical filter", it got me scratching my head. Hmm.....

Thoughts anyone? :question: :question:

[Quinn]

I think Bev's method is good, and obviously it works well for her. At the same time, the modified Berlin method many of us are using is very simple and nearly foolproof (hey, it even works for me). Leanne, I do feel that you would do well with a skimmer, an increased quantity of live rock, and a few powerheads. A used skimmer can be had for an excellent price, and live rock is also cheap if you look around. Of course, consider your options carefully, and do what you feel will work best for you.

[bulletsworld]

Hey thanks for the tips everyone. Now I just have to decide...what should I do?

Hmm....Skimmer shopping here I come. :lol:

[mr_alberta]

Hey Lee,

If you look around on ReefCentral there are usually some used skimmers for sale (if you don't mind used). Or you could go gung-ho and get a custom one built!

[bulletsworld]

Hey Harvey,

Yeah I will look into used, good idea! Just hard to find a hang on the back skimmer. Hmm... who custom builds ones AI?

[bulletsworld]

BTW...Anyone want two broken down 404 Fluval Canisters. Who knows if you got one maybe you will need the parts I bought and can't take back. ($50 buck a roo's flushed to parts)

Let me know if not I think I will just.....throw these Fluval's off my balcony! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Quinn]

Tangoman in Calgary might be interested in your Fluvals.

I don't think AI likes DIY skimmers (inside joke). :lol:

[AJ_77]

I don't think AI likes DIY skimmers (inside joke). :lol:
oooohh, nasty... :biggrin:

Running a skimmer, aquaclear, and powerheads makes sense, especially if you have good amounts of LR, and a working sandbed.