GE Silicone Problems..

[Aquattro]

PSA: There have been several threads recently detailing crashes and issues with tanks after using GE I or II silicone to repair or build new additions to tanks. While GE I has historically been reef safe, and I've used it myself for years, there are reports that they are now adding a mildew inhibitor to this mix as well. This seems to be verified by the crashes reported.
GE 1200 is still highly recommended, as are several other products on the market at hardware stores, marked as "aquarium safe".

Please do a search here for threads detailing the problems and alternate products to use instead.
Alternatively, if anyone wants to post in this thread what they used and where they purchased it, that might make it easier.
Please, no discussions of issues with silicone, just what you used and where you got it.

Thanks.

[Borderjumper]

I've been using Adbond 005 100% silicone, its a green tube with the fish on the label. I get mine at Castle Building Center and I think Industrial paints and plastics and Ace hardware also carry it

[Aquattro]

If you're reading this after the fact, here is some useful info..

The mildew inhibitors are petroleum distillates. The only thing that will remove them is aspiration by a skimmer (basically "undissolving" them) and big water changes. They don't stick to carbon. The silicone may also be leaching ammonia if it didn't cure long enough. Add an ammonia absorbing pad.

. GE didn't even list the petroleum distillates in their MSDS until recently as they were a trade secret.

[sphelps]

Is there away to determine what is bad or good by the packaging or some other test? I recently used a small amount of GE#1 but it was from a tube I've had lying around for quite some time. I never saw any effects but would like to check if possible.

[Proteus]

I went and bought weather shield silicon which states aquarium safe on the tube. From home hardware for around $7

[MarkoD]

If the bottle says 100% silicone, it's safe to use.

99.999999......% or less is not safe to use

[Aquattro]

If the bottle says 100% silicone, it's safe to use.



This is not accurate info. This thread is to list products you've used successfully, and where you bought it.

[MarkoD]

This is not accurate info. This thread is to list products you've used successfully, and where you bought it.

GE 100% silicon bough at Rona.

Never an issued, used as recently as a month ago to add bubble trap to sump

[Reef Puffer]

http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh616/reefpuffer/silicone.jpg is it safe? or is it not?

[The Grizz]

GE SCS1200 is all I will use EVER. I know for a FACT 2 tank builders use it & nothin but. I bought a case of black at Sabic PolyMerShapes as well as some from Concepts in Calgary.

[StirCrazy]

http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh616/reefpuffer/silicone.jpg is it safe? or is it not?

this should be in a different thread but,

I would say no it isn't because of the words "that also provides a mold free product protection"

The only way to go mould free is to have inhibitors in the product.

I wouldn't chance it. look for something that says aquarium safe and spend the extra 2 bucks.

Steve

[sphelps]

I think confusion lies in statements like 100% silicone. Silicone is a synthetic compound made up of many things so saying 100% silicone really means nothing in terms of what's in it. Kind of like saying 100% rubber or 100% plastic.

[Enigma]

I've used GE Silicone II Window & Door Premium Waterproof Silicone. I've had no issues with it, though I did let it cure for two weeks prior to submersion in my sump. The stuff I used indicated that it was mold "resistant" but not that it was mold "free."

[pink spider]

People that crashes using GE silicone is because they don't wait 24-48 hours before putting back their saltwater.

[The Guy]

:fadein: This is Proper Aquarium sealant Nuflex 333 made for aquarium use and repairs. I bought it through my local glass shop,300 ml tube is 10-12 bucks. Not cheap but I know I'm not going to have any problems.

[Aquattro]

People that crashes using GE silicone is because they don't wait 24-48 hours before putting back their saltwater.

Exactly. That, and the toxins in the new formula :razz: Mostly the toxins though..

[Mandosh]

People that crashes using GE silicone is because they don't wait 24-48 hours before putting back their saltwater.

facepalm

[reefwars]

Exactly. That, and the toxins in the new formula :razz: Mostly the toxins though..


:suspicious:

[Proteus]

Yep. I waited 3 days. Still crashed

[darb]

Anyone know if this is safe, no mention of mildew resistance? Otherwise I am going to coat the bottom of my new nanao with it in a bit ...

http://s16.postimage.org/6c2p9fns5/IMGP0817.jpg

[Aquattro]

If it's GE, I wouldn't risk it. Too many people having problems with it lately.

[denny_CC]

Anyone know if this is safe, no mention of mildew resistance? Otherwise I am going to coat the bottom of my new nanao with it in a bit ...

http://s16.postimage.org/6c2p9fns5/IMGP0817.jpg


i wouldnt use it...

[reeferfulton]

That stuff above cleary says " for kitchen and bath " and i was under the impression that they had always used some sort of mold resistance in that variety . whether it was ge 1 or ge 2

i just rebuilt my sump and tank with GE silicon 1 . " for windows and doors"
Clearly says on the bottle " safe for contact with food "
And absolutly no mention of any sort of mold / mildew bs .

I am still weeks away from adding water to the system , but have no intention on cutting it appart to redo .

See what happens .

[chris121277]

How soon after using GE II are people having crashes?

a friend of mine just started up a new system ....and I told him to use it for his sump :eek: .......system has been up and running for close to 3 months now.

[ckmullin]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=793921

I had created a topic regarding aquarium safe silicone on another forum but it has value for SW too so I'll post that same topic here.

Hope someone finds it of benefit.

[WildExpressions]

I've written several articles on the topic over the years and while I'm not going to post any of them I will post a couple of excerpt that cover what are IMO the largest misconceptions.

100% silicone does not mean they are all the same. As an example you can buy 100% silicone that contains fungicides, you can buy a 100% silicone that feature a joint movement of 25% while another product has 12% and yet another might have 30%.

Doesn't that tell you that 100% silicone's are not all the same? The time to cure, the shear strength, elasticity, level of adhesiveness to any specific material and many other properties all vary substantially in 100% silicone products.

So what is Silicone? Well elemental silicon (as listed on the periodic table) and silicone ( polymerized siloxanes) are completely different.

The common 100% Silicone adhesives or sealants are compounds created by blending members from the family of polymerized siloxanes in various ratios and manners using a variety of solvents to achieve a broad range of 100% silicone products each expressing specific desired traits.

They can generally be broken into two categories, silicone sealants and silicone adhesives. They can usually do each others jobs with little difficulty as long as they are used well within their design limitations. Most of the product found in the hardware store are sealants, not adhesives. They are designed to seal out the weather or for doing minor repairs.

Products can be legally labelled as 100% pure while they may actually be 99.8% pure and some solvents do not have to be considered in the equation at all even though some solvents do change traits of the final product. When it comes to chemically derived products 0.2% can sometimes make a substantial difference in its properties.

Back in the day I also used Door and Window type 1 ( a product that to my knowledge has been discontinued for years and is only found as aged stock) and it worked pretty good. Back then I ignored warnings by professionals that it was not suitable for anything over 30 gallons. It simply lacks the strength as it was never designed to be an adhesive, but rather a sealant.

I used it anyway and over the years I built, repaired, modified 100's of tanks. I got away with it until I tackled a 180 gallon and I experienced my first seam split.

The SCS1200 that Grizz mentioned is a 100% silicone construction adhesive designed for use by professional glaziers. Because of the level of damage a failed tank can do I've always taken the approach that if I need to explain it than you are not qualified to do it so I do not recommend any particular product. In house the only product we use is SCS1200. It retails for $10 a tube and flows like silk when a quality caulk gun is used. I've personally used it on over 50 salt water aquariums up to 240 gallons.

[KPG007]

That stuff above cleary says " for kitchen and bath " and i was under the impression that they had always used some sort of mold resistance in that variety . whether it was ge 1 or ge 2

i just rebuilt my sump and tank with GE silicon 1 . " for windows and doors"
Clearly says on the bottle " safe for contact with food "
And absolutly no mention of any sort of mold / mildew bs .

I am still weeks away from adding water to the system , but have no intention on cutting it appart to redo .

See what happens .

Damn. I read a bunch of threads and just purchased and used the GE 1 "for Windows and Doors". Fulton - how did your build go?

[hillegom]

Thank you Wildexpressions.
Very clear to me now
sealant vs adhesive

[Doug]

I ordered some SCS1200 from one of our sponsors. What a difference. Great silicone. Biggest diff is almost no smell. With the other from lumber store that I have used for many years and never had a problem, but it has the strong silicone smell.

Great stuff and a :thumb:

[reeferfulton]

Damn. I read a bunch of threads and just purchased and used the GE 1 "for Windows and Doors". Fulton - how did your build go?


I used 2 tubes of it with no issues ..

[KPG007]

I used 2 tubes of it with no issues ..

Thats what I wanted to hear. Thanks!

[007rick]

I used it to reseal my tank... no issues up and running two years now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[The Grizz]

Why would anyone even think of using something that COULD cause potential problems. Just use what the tank builders are using and never think about it again.

[gregzz4]

I used it to reseal my tank... no issues up and running two years now


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why would anyone even think of using something that COULD cause potential problems. Just use what the tank builders are using and never think about it again.
I'll have to agree
A few 20s is money well spent to save the whole tank

Maybe Rick got lucky and bought some of the old silicone before they switched it over to the new mold and mildew stuff

[DSlater]

We just suffered some minor losses after resealing an old 20g with GE 1, used it in the past just fine. Over two days it damaged some soft corals and killed a small wrasse. CUC seemed fine so I threw the into a larger system.

What can I now do with the rock remaining? Can this be rinsed off in a saltwater bucket and thrown into the sump on our larger system or will the rock absorb the chemicals and release them again? Almost leaning towards bleaching the rock and starting over to be safe.

[gregzz4]

What can I now do with the rock remaining?
Toss it :surprise:
The mold inhibitors in the silicone you used are going to permeate everything

Chuck the rock, and everything involved

[DSlater]

Toss it :surprise:
The mold inhibitors in the silicone you used are going to permeate everything

Chuck the rock, and everything involved

We've muratic acid bathed rock and bleach bathed before - shouldn't this take care of the chemicals?

[gregzz4]

We've muratic acid bathed rock and bleach bathed before - shouldn't this take care of the chemicals?
That I don't know about as I don't know what their inhibitors are made from. Muriatic eats metals and won't touch anything organic

Maybe someone at GE could let you know what you need to neutralize their chems

[Ulmo]

GE SCS1200 is all I will use EVER. I know for a FACT 2 tank builders use it & nothin but. I bought a case of black at Sabic PolyMerShapes as well as some from Concepts in Calgary.

Interesting, SCS1200 label says specifically "not for use below water."

[spit.fire]

Interesting, SCS1200 label says specifically "not for use below water."


It's a liability thing

[rynoe]

I have been using momentive RTV 108 with good results. Strangely it is sold at most electronic supply stores.

[reefwithareefer]

SCS 1200 for me.

[Bblinks]

http://www.jlaquatics.com/images/misc/silicone_clear_10.jpg

I use this, never had a problem. I have established that in this hobby do it right the first time, don't try to penny pinch and you won't have tank crashes.

[120G]

Anyone know if this is safe, no mention of mildew resistance? Otherwise I am going to coat the bottom of my new nanao with it in a bit ...

http://s16.postimage.org/6c2p9fns5/IMGP0817.jpg

Don't use this kind 100% tank crush guarantee !!!

[reefmandan]

Bought this at Home Hardware in the maritimes. Three tubes for $11, Buti haven't found a place that sells it in Edmonton yet. I used the GE I line, no problems other than greening of the silicone.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161029/96eaacc8cc2e580af8b3f6af7598518a.jpg

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[warriorcookie]

Bought this at Home Hardware in the maritimes. Three tubes for $11, Buti haven't found a place that sells it in Edmonton yet. I used the GE I line, no problems other than greening of the silicone.


BrockWhite in Edmonton has SCS1200 in white, black, clear, etc. That's what I've used.

[Myka]

Bought this at Home Hardware in the maritimes. Three tubes for $11, Buti haven't found a place that sells it in Edmonton yet.

I like that it says "safe for aquariums". :D

[reefmandan]

BrockWhite in Edmonton has SCS1200 in white, black, clear, etc. That's what I've used.

Do you know what they charge for a tube?

[SpongeAl]

Do you know what they charge for a tube?


Actually the HomeHardware stuff might be your best bet.

I had a tube of SCS1200 here I was going to use when some know it all told me I can't use SCS1200 below the waterline.

I thought, ya right, all my previous research led me to the SCS1200. So I went and looked at the tube and sure enough it is not suitable for aquariums.

People use it all the time I know, but I would rather use something that says its for aquariums like the Home Hardware stuff, plus its easy to find.

[Cujo#31]

I use Dow 1199. Cascade Aquatech by 8 rinks. It is a structural silicon that performs unbelievably well and is used by most tank manufacturers. I can get it at cost for about $7.00 a tube if anyone needs some get in touch with me.

[Tigweldpro]

Ive always used SCS1200. Freshwater/saltwater/my own bathtub.... I have called GE and talked to a rep. They have been sued due to bond failure in aquariums so they added the "not for aquariums" to the tube. if you need the silicone to operate at near its peak tensile strength cleaning temperature bead thickness all must be perfect. Once weather shield gets a call from a lawyer about an aquarium that failed they will probably be removing the "safe for aquariums" from there tubes also.

Ive noticed a lot of aquarium/fish stores in Calgary actually have scs1200 for sale on there shelves..... I buy it from Calgary fasteners with contractor pricing for less than $6 a tube.

[Tigweldpro]

Well I was over at Pisces flatworm farm and snapped a pic just for fun. $18.99 for a tube. "do not use below water"...... it is what it is. And what it is, is very good silicone!
https://i.imgur.com/Bv4tz0Zl.jpg