Request for pics/ideas for sump

[daplatapus]

So I got a new tank I'm going to use for a new sump. It measure 60"L X 24"H X 18" D. I'm switching out the one I have now for this one for several reasons.
1 - more water volume is never a bad thing
2 - there are things I did wrong with the one I'm running and I want to change them but pretty hard to do with a running system
3 - well, I like to tinker :)

The main problem I have with the one I'm running now is I hate the way my filter socks sit and I've pretty much stopped using them because of it. This is basically my system now:
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x353/daplatapus/PB172259.jpg

I'm running a full herbie in both my main 77 Gal DT and remote 20 gal cube (drain plumbing for cube not shown as it was added after this photo) So I have 4 lines coming back into my sump and draining directly into my filter socks. Only problem is when I go to switch out the socks I have to drop the sock rim below the water level in the sump and under the drain lines running at full siphon and end up spilling 50% of the detritus and crud in the socks back into the sump.
I also screwed up the baffles as you can see. My first baffle is right to the bottom and the second baffle is 1" up. So the water goes over the first and under the second. While it actually works ok, from the reading I've been doing it's better to be able to skim your surface rather than have it flow over a weir. So I want to change that too.
What I'm looking for is ideas/pics on how to have your drain lines in the skimmer section, or I guess they can be in a separate section altogether, and that chamber flows over a plate with 3-4 filter socks in it which can just be removed by lifting straight out.
Believe it or not I could only find 1 or 2 pics of that with google searching and even then I found it hard to follow the water flow of how that would work.
Thanks in advance!

[msjboy]

Try google again but after using your keyword search ( eg: cube sump), click the IMAGES instead of the worded links... you will see lotsa neat sump designs and simply click the image that links to a certain page it originated from... also try other keywords

Also, check this current thread :

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=286297


I also assume you have looked at the various sump designs found at www.melevsreef.com?

regs

msjbou:razz:

[Nizzmo]

Is your sump in your basement and tank on the first floor? If so that's so rad.

[sphelps]

I got a few pictures saved online from back in the day. Most won't fit your application directly but I'm posting what I got in hopes others might find them useful. If I find more I'll post them but I know I didn't keep that many.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpoverview-2.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpoverview-1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/Sumpdesign011.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/Sumpdesign004.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/Sumpdesign003.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/overview-1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump-1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/overview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpoverview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/IMG_2058.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sump.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/DSC02152.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/overview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/P8100004.jpg

[sphelps]

Found a few more

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Jamie/Nov%202%2008/DSC_1605.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/IMG_2174.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/IMG_2175.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/IMG_2176.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Outline.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/schematicoverview.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/sump.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/overview1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/overview.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/sumpdimensions.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/calciumreactoroverview.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/sump2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/5.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/4.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/3.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/dualsump.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/Picture001.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/100G%20Tank%20Build%202011/fishroom.jpg

Personal favorite
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/new%20tank/oct%202009/Oct2009_3.jpg

[sphelps]

This one was pretty unique.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/sumps/DSC_1061.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/sumps/DSC_1065.jpg

[ScubaSteve]

A few more? :razz:

[sphelps]

A few more? :razz:

I wish I took pictures of everything I built but I didn't, some stuff was really crazy.

[gregzz4]

My sump in it's current state

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC01314.jpg

Water enters behind the skimmer, overflows through the socks, under the baffle, past the heaters, and over the last baffle ( under center support ) into the return area

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC01316.jpg

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC01315.jpg

Chaeto tank drains to return section

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC01317.jpg

Reactors and chiller/UV go back to skimmer section to be re-filtered

[daplatapus]

Is your sump in your basement and tank on the first floor? If so that's so rad.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. A bit more expensive for return pumps but way cleaner and quieter. All plusses if your married to someone who isn't as enthusiastic about your hobby as you are :P


Also, check this current thread :

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=286297


I also assume you have looked at the various sump designs found at www.melevsreef.com?

regs

msjbou:razz:


Yup, I've had Melev's reef bookmarked for almost a year :) Thanks for the link I'll look through it.

Sphelps:
the 8th pic/sump down is exactly what I'm looking for, the one with the 4 filter sock holes/holder. Does that baffle from the skimmer section sit up off the bottom and allow flow under it as well as over?

Greg: Yeah, that's what I want to do too. Nice job getting all that in there by the way :)
So your first baffle is siliconed at the bottom? All the flow has to go over the first baffle, through your filter socks, under the second baffle and over the 3rd, right?

I was trying to figure a way to get the main flow under the first baffle for better surface skimming but that may not be possible I guess with this configuration.

[gregzz4]

You're right about my flow

I wish I could understand your idea a little better ...
Surface skimming you say, but having all your first chamber go under the baffle ?
Do you mean you want the lighter liquids and bubbles to stay in the first chamber ?
Not a big deal to do. Just have your first baffle as high as possible, but allow a little overflow in case it wants to flood

I've allowed 1/4" below my trim for flooding. But even with the socks completely plugged, the level never goes up the trim
I have maybe 1000gph in total going through the socks and my baffles are 17-1/2" wide

If I had a 4' instead of a 3' sump, one thing for sure I would do differently is to have one extra baffle ( the highest ) between the socks and heaters
This would allow for plugged socks, but still have the flow pass by the heaters properly
Or I would have the socks first, right after the drains, and before the skimmer
I was told skimming before filtering is good, hence my frankensump

As it stands now, when the socks plug, much of the flow passes over the heater chamber rather than going through it

[daplatapus]

Yeah, I was doing a bunch of reading on RC about the most efficient/effective way to skim. The thought basically was (I can't find the link right now) if your first baffle sits up off the bottom and the water is forced to go under the first baffle, all the proteins/fats/oils etc that you really want out of your water by the skimmer would float to the top. If your water flows over the 1st baffle all that stuff on the surface goes with it and the skimmer doesn't have the time to get it out.
So I was wondering if there was a way out there to have the best of both worlds - surface skimming capability and easily removable socks - but maybe there isn't.
And maybe it's not that big a deal either, I've been running my tank for almost a year now and my skimmer stills fills with muck and seems to be doing it's job well enough.

So about what you would do differently...
I think I see what you mean. There's very little difference in height between your 1st, 2nd and 3rd baffles. I can see how if the flow slows down in the filter sock section it would quickly over flow into the heater section. And if there isn't any flow through the socks the water wouldn't pass by the heaters.
For my heater placement, I have 1 heater in my skimmer section under where my drain lines are so it senses the water temp coming from the DT and another in my return chamber where my overflow from the refugium dumps into it so it senses water from that chamber. I actually am quite pleased with that placement. So other than adding another heater or 2 for some safety margin I doubt I'd change that but maybe some food for thought for you.

Is the plate your sock holders sit in siliconed in or is it just sitting there, able to be removed if need be? I'm assuming it's made of acrylic?

Thanks for all those pics to those who supplied them, I think I'm starting to get an idea of how to do this. If anyone else has any ideas or thought to this I'm all ears :)

[gregzz4]

As far as my heaters go, they still work, just not as efficiently as possible. They are controlled by an RKE
I'm sure some water still passes past them when the socks are full as I haven't had an issue yet with heating

My filter sock plate is acrylic
It's removable and is resting on pieces of glass I siliconed inside that chamber

I'll see if I can find you a pic from early on in my build ....

Here it is :smile:

This is a pic of a sock tray failure ( poor design on my part )
If you magnify the pic, you will see the glass strips
This is basically what I did with the current setup

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx136/Gregzz4/75%20Gallon%20Build/DSC00854.jpg

[daplatapus]

Cool, thanks Greg, I think I'll be doing something similar. With the 5' footprint of this new tank I should be able to have some room :) Hopefully I can get a start on it this weekend.

[sphelps]

Sphelps:
the 8th pic/sump down is exactly what I'm looking for, the one with the 4 filter sock holes/holder. Does that baffle from the skimmer section sit up off the bottom and allow flow under it as well as over?


That particular sump only allowed water to flow over that first baffle after the skimmer chamber. Most of these were pretty custom jobs for people who tended to know exactly what they want. It's better IMO to only allow water underneath the first baffle after a skimmer as it helps trap bubbles and proteins in that chamber where they belong. However this can result in a surface film build up which some people don't care for, probably the reason for the extra mech filter spot after the skimmer. The last one to prevent refugium stuff from hitting the pumps. The bypass allowed for refugium flow control, just keep in mind this requires a good difference in water level before and after the refugium to function properly.

For those that don't know the mech filter chambers are just eggcrate placed perpendicular to a flow channel allowing for the use of a filter floss or pad of some sort. I'm pretty sure this one was used for three separate tanks. Don't ask me why it had so many probe holders.


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sideview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/topview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/waterflow.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/porbeholder.jpg

[sphelps]

I found some more digging up those last few, might be a little repetitive.

This was a basic design, very common and pretty straight forward. There's also a cut sheet which allows the sump to built from one 4x8 sheet of acrylic. I think this is the biggest you can build from a single sheet so pretty economical as well.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump5.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpwithdimensions-1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/cutsheet.jpg

Some others

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/frontview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/rearview.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/2partsumpoverview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/assemblyisoview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/isoview.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/new.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/skimmer.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump3.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump4.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump6.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump7.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump8.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump9.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpoverview2.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sumpoverview-3.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/sump-2.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/newoverview-1.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k36/EngineeredAquariums/sumps/overview-2.jpg

[daplatapus]

For anyone curious here's a short vid of a sump with what I kind of hand in mind. Looks like they skim after the filter socks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_neWHzfaWUg&feature=channel&list=UL