PDA

View Full Version : I love being right!


Aquattro
06-03-2012, 04:31 AM
Unfortunately, I'll have to wait a bit longer..

Officially, 3 AI Sol Blue are not enough light for a fully stocked and mature SPS tank.
The color of the tank with these lights is much nicer than I expected, and no heat at all, which means huge savings on my chiller NOT running all the time.

But, with only three lights, at 100%, it's just not enough...

I expect corals to lose color shortly....

Borderjumper
06-03-2012, 04:35 AM
Unfortunately, I'll have to wait a bit longer..

Officially, 3 AI Sol Blue are not enough light for a fully stocked and mature SPS tank.
The color of the tank with these lights is much nicer than I expected, and no heat at all, which means huge savings on my chiller NOT running all the time.

But, with only three lights, at 100%, it's just not enough...

I expect corals to lose color shortly....

So you got them mounted? Are you going to run the 3 as is now or did you go back to the MH until you get a 4th?

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 04:49 AM
So you got them mounted? Are you going to run the 3 as is now or did you go back to the MH until you get a 4th?

Gonna need a 5th and 6th too, me thinks :)

Dismantled the MH gear, so running as is until I get more. I retro fitted a rail system into the existing canopy, so there's no going back...

Borderjumper
06-03-2012, 04:56 AM
Gonna need a 5th and 6th too, me thinks :)

Dismantled the MH gear, so running as is until I get more. I retro fitted a rail system into the existing canopy, so there's no going back...
Damn... At least you like the color!

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 04:58 AM
Damn... At least you like the color!

Ya, it looks good, and the sunrise/sunset/moon are nice effects. I don't like the color separation, but I knew that already. I suppose I'll get used to it.

Certainly nice things to say about LED, but they are not as nice visually as MH, IMO.

sphelps
06-03-2012, 05:08 AM
Keep in mind LEDs are significantly dimmer than traditional halides, it takes time for your eyes to adjust. When I first setup mine I ran them at 100% and still thought they looked dim, after toasting all my sps I now run them closer to 50%. Don't use your eyes to judge.

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 05:15 AM
I just don't have the coverage I'd like. The well lit areas are nice and bright, but the spread isn't enough. For a softie tank, or even mixed LPS, three would be fine. But after coming from 3 x 400w, it's just lacking for a SPS tank.
I mounted parallel to the front glass, and I don't get enough light front to back.
My only real complaint is the light separation, but I'm sure that will fade once I get used to it. Overall, nice lights, no more fans or noise (MH bulbs can be loud!) and I'll save a ton of money not running my 1/2hp chiller 8 hours a day.
The amperage output on my Apex read slightly over 12 amps with MH, the Sols pull about 0.3. Gonna save some money there. Biggest issue for me is evaporation. My house might actually dry out now without that heat over the tank.

sphelps
06-03-2012, 05:29 AM
Did you change the lenses to all 40?

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 05:38 AM
Did you change the lenses to all 40?

No, I stayed with the stock optics. Lights about 6 or 7 inches of the water.

They just won't cover a 2x2 area fully unless I raise them high enough to really cut down intensity.
Coverage from a 400w in a Lumenarc reflector is much greater.

rastaangel
06-03-2012, 05:52 AM
You could swap the 70/40 reflectors to 70s and get more spread but less penetration if you have a shallower tank

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 06:09 AM
You could swap the 70/40 reflectors to 70s and get more spread but less penetration if you have a shallower tank

No, I have SPS on the bottom of 24 inches. Just need more light :)

fishytime
06-03-2012, 02:24 PM
shudda bought radions:razz:

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 03:51 PM
shudda bought radions:razz:

Then I'd be out double the money and in the same spot :)

don.ald
06-03-2012, 03:58 PM
Ya, it looks good, and the sunrise/sunset/moon are nice effects. I don't like the color separation, but I knew that already. I suppose I'll get used to it.

Certainly nice things to say about LED, but they are not as nice visually as MH, IMO.

Damn... At least you like the color!

The two of you had such nice tanks with the MH. Soon you will get over te LED craze and switch back:biggrin:

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 04:04 PM
The two of you had such nice tanks with the MH. Soon you will get over te LED craze and switch back:biggrin:

No, unfortunately it was either LED or HRV, and the long term savings of the LED made that choice inviting.
Honestly, as the lights ramp up this morning (too early BTW), it is a very nice light to look at. I probably do like the color tone more than my Radiums, but I just need more of it to keep the corals where there are.

cuz
06-03-2012, 04:05 PM
If you thought three would work but they didn't would that make you loving being wrong? lol

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 04:11 PM
If you thought three would work but they didn't would that make you loving being wrong? lol

lol, no, the reference was that while I love being right, it didn't quite work out that way :razz:
However, as I said, for anything less than a full SPS tank, I think three would do it. So kinda right, in a oh so wrong kinda way -lol

sphelps
06-03-2012, 04:16 PM
Well I think it was discussed to cover a 24x24 area properly with one sole you'd have to switch out the 40 degree lenses to 70 and lift them a little higher than 6-7", I think even manufacturer recommends 12". Plus it was a pipe dream if you ever thought 72W of LED can replace 400W of halide, I think basically you've downgraded to 250W halide equivalent which you can probably make do with but as you predict some SPS may loose color or at the very least take a while to adjust. Using radions instead wouldn't have produced better results either, their usable wattage is only slightly higher but produce better spread at the sacrifice of lower intensity.

All that said though, you should still be cautious using these lights with the stock lenses running 100% at 6-7". While it may not appear so, some areas are probably getting significantly more usable light than before and this sudden adjustment can have negative consequences. At the very least I think you should lift them up to get proper coverage and then lower them in increments if you find corals are suffering for too little light.

Rice Reef
06-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Hi Brad,
Congrats in making the switch! It sounds like you will be needing one or a few more units... Running short for now may not be a bad thing ( short term) as I think this will give your corals the time to adjust. The intensity of the LEDs should be started low and gradually ramping it up over time. Since you are running short of a few units may be running them with a slightly higher intensity and if possible to raise the lights higher to balance out the spread may help. When I switched over to the radions ( running at 30%) my montis and birdsnest still bleached.

You may want to chat with Rich( bblinks) as I think he may have ran short of a few units at the beginning. He may be able to share some of his thoughts with you. BTW, I was just in Van and saw his tank and the Sols lighting do look great!

Bblinks
06-03-2012, 07:34 PM
Hey Brad,

Congrats on the switch over, I know it was a heavy hit but it will be well worth it in the long run.

As far as for the spread, I have mine at 4 inches awl since I added another unit. I kept the lens stock just like yours so I can blast the sps on the sand bed like my efflo. To be honest I don't see much of separation from the lighting, although the shimmer on the sand bed does have a distinct difference then the shimmer from halides. You said you have your lights sitting at 6-7 inches which in my mind will give you the spread and the coverage around 10X16 area and if you left it up a bit maybe another inch or so then you can increase that to 10.5X18. If you do supplemented with some T5's, you might be able to get away with 3 for a while.

I think you know my stance when it comes to LED intensity, LED's will produce more par when you compare them to 250 MH but I highly doubt that the a brand new 400 halide are putting out anything less then 1000 par at the water surface which is similar to the sols and that par from the halide is evenly distributed across a large area even on the sand bed. I am not telling you to blast your corals right away but instead lift the sols up a bit and have them around 10-12 inches awl but keep them on the same schedule as your halides so if you run your MH for 6 hours a day then run 100% for those 5 hours on your sol and see how everything reacts to it then lower it in a week or two as the coral transitions over to LEDs.

Let me know how it goes, I am hoping to see you on this side of the water soon.
Rich

ElGuappo
06-03-2012, 07:55 PM
I notice everyone talking about hight above the water line. Imo and i am only running one unit on a nano, but think distance from the bottom of the tank is more important. At least if you are looking at the footprint from the lite area. Just my two pennies.

Sent from my galaxy S2 using tapatalk

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 08:27 PM
Hey Brad,

Congrats on the switch over, I know it was a heavy hit but it will be well worth it in the long run.

You said you have your lights sitting at 6-7 inches which in my mind will give you the spread and the coverage around 10X16 area and if you left it up a bit maybe another inch or so then you can increase that to 10.5X18. If you do supplemented with some T5's, you might be able to get away with 3 for a while.

I think you know my stance when it comes to LED intensity, LED's will produce more par when you compare them to 250 MH but I highly doubt that the a brand new 400 halide are putting out anything less then 1000 par at the water surface which is similar to the sols and that par from the halide is evenly distributed across a large area even on the sand bed. I am not telling you to blast your corals right away but instead lift the sols up a bit and have them around 10-12 inches awl but keep them on the same schedule as your halides so if you run your MH for 6 hours a day then run 100% for those 5 hours on your sol and see how everything reacts to it then lower it in a week or two as the coral transitions over to LEDs.


Rich, just checked, they sit at exactly 6 inches. I don't really have a way to raise them, so they'll stay there. The coverage you estimate sounds about right, maybe a bit less.
For me, the 40' optics sit directly over the peaks of the 3 main structures, so there are colonies about 12 inches or less from the lights. They even appear lacking. I've got them at w/100%, B/80, RB/80...nice color, but much of the tank looks like a creepy deepwater scene..kinda neat, but not conducive to growing corals.

I honestly didn't think 3 would work, just more "hoping" to not spend that kind of money. Dez' tank gave me some hope, but it is a bit smaller and he supplements with LED strips, which might work in my case, or not. It was a tough guess though, as there are very few full SPS tanks where someone tried less than the 6 recommended by everyone.
Luckily, as I built my retro rack mount, I built it to accommodate 6 units...

as for blasting the corals, I'm going to do exactly that in hopes of keeping them happy :)

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Oh, another unexpected expense. I'm gonna need a bigger heater :razz:

Borderjumper
06-03-2012, 10:54 PM
Oh, another unexpected expense. I'm gonna need a bigger heater :razz:

Isn't that cool! When I changed over to my LEDS I had to put in a second heater :mrgreen:

justincgdick
06-03-2012, 10:56 PM
Didn't see it mentioned in the thread... did you take any par measurements? Not sure how you know if you have enough light.

Aquattro
06-03-2012, 11:03 PM
Didn't see it mentioned in the thread... did you take any par measurements? Not sure how you know if you have enough light.
No, no par meter. I know I don't have enough light because I can't see all the corals. They're in the dark. The areas just below the lights are fine, but still not what came out of the 400w bulbs.

justincgdick
06-03-2012, 11:18 PM
Aha, in the dark... that won't work.

Rice Reef
06-03-2012, 11:22 PM
Oh, another unexpected expense. I'm gonna need a bigger heater :razz:

Sell the chiller and you can buy another Sol and heater.:biggrin:

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Sell the chiller and you can buy another Sol and heater.:biggrin:

I'm going to keep the chiller inline until I've gone a summer and not need it.

Dez
06-04-2012, 12:58 AM
DON'T run 'em at 100% to start...... I think your corals will adjust better starting at 30-40% and then going up. I've blacked out my full sps tank for 5 days before with no effect on the corals. Leds look dimmer to the eye, but for some reason, it's super easy to bleach the sps not even full power.

Consider DIY as opposed to another 2 SOL units. That way you won't get spotlighting. That's what I did and I'm loving it and think I got the best of both worlds.

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 01:03 AM
DON'T run 'em at 100% to start...... I think your corals will adjust better starting at 30-40% and then going up. I've blacked out my full sps tank for 5 days before with no effect on the corals. Leds look dimmer to the eye, but for some reason, it's super easy to bleach the sps not even full power.

Consider DIY as opposed to another 2 SOL units. That way you won't get spotlighting. That's what I did and I'm loving it and think I got the best of both worlds.

Dez, I don't seem to get much spotlighting now, certainly opposed to one of my reflectors I was running.
But seriously, 30% ?? That's almost off. Honest, the tank is really dark, and so far the corals appear fine. Actually, more PE during full day. My LPS are not as full, so I can tell for them, they are not getting what they were used to.

For those that did burn corals, how long did it take to notice anything?

sphelps
06-04-2012, 01:32 AM
Mine bleached in a day, like you I thought things were on the low end for light and figured I could adjust if needed before things went south. Not the case for me but I'll admit I had other issues at the time that probably played a role. Most my LPS however did fine, lost color but they came back with time.

jorjef
06-04-2012, 01:41 AM
But seriously, 30% ?? That's almost off. Honest, the tank is really dark, and so far the corals appear fine. Actually, more PE during full day. My LPS are not as full, so I can tell for them, they are not getting what they were used to.



Okay Marko...errrr I mean Brad, you're being very stubborn, you have had two very experienced and knowledgeable SPS/LED reefers advising to pull back on intensity. My question and I don't have the answer is " is the damage to your SPS easier to reverse after they have been bleached as compared to when you notice a lack of color and can increase light?" It seems alot to risk, to come home from work one day and be says OOOOO SHI.....

Bblinks
06-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Brad, I think the best thing to do is try different settings on the two opposite ends of your tank, see what the difference is.

Here is a picture of one of your frags that I got from you that is situated on both side of your tank. I had them on the frag rack for 24 hours then straight on to this spot which is directly under 2 sols side by side.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/bblinks/IMG_0334.jpg

Here is a picture where my lights in relation to the coral.
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/bblinks/IMG_0335.jpg

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 02:06 AM
Okay Marko..

That just hurts :) I could be wrong (again), and I'm sure it's great advice for a full compliment of lights (If I had 6, then for sure I'd dial back to 50% or less), but looking at the tank, I cannot believe that there is enough light to adequately grow a mushroom.

But yes, it's easier to bring color back than to repair bleaching :)

Snaz
06-04-2012, 02:07 AM
There was a group buy on a par meter a few years back here on the mainland. I wasn't involved but I remember the thread. If it can be located and you paid for shipping the owners might be persuaded to loan it.

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 02:11 AM
Here is a picture of one of your frags that I got from you that is situated on both side of your tank. I had them on the frag rack for 24 hours then straight on to this spot which is directly under 2 sols side by side.



Here is a picture where my lights in relation to the coral.


So as a comparison to your tank, the piece in question is slightly higher, but under one Sol only, and a little off center (4"?)
My thoughts are if my coral can move directly under your 2 Sols at 100%, then the same coral will not burn when placed under half that lighting..

Or am I missing something? I trust your judgement, you've seen my tank with MH, taken coral and added it under your LED at 100%, and you know what not enough Sols looks like.
If you think I should back off, I'd strongly consider it :razz:

Bblinks
06-04-2012, 02:12 AM
oops, missing the circle.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/bblinks/IMG_0336.jpg

Here, that's better.

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 02:24 AM
oops, missing the circle.

Here, that's better.

It's ok, I found it -lol

Bblinks
06-04-2012, 02:25 AM
I would honestly tell most to dial back a bit but your tank was under 400W halide so most of your sps will be able to handle it and plus your tank is very health and happy so even if they get more par I know that they will be able to accommodate for it. It is different if ones tank is switching over from 250 halide and corals are not in the best of shape. The only thing I would watch out for are monties and charlices, I have bleached a few pieces but they have all came back now.

Dez
06-04-2012, 03:58 AM
Brad, I wasn't getting spotlighting, but rather 3 faint cone effects with just running 3. With the DIYs, it eliminated that.

You are familiar with my tank. You know that my highest rock is 12" below the water surface. Even now I run my SOLs at 60% and am still getting great colours. I started my LEDs at 60% and still bleached out some of my coral but was able to recover them, it just looked horrible during the recovery period. Just wanted to advise you based on experience.

Hope this helps. At 60% I don't think it looks dark. But I'll tell you one thing, when I switched over to LEDs 15 months ago, I regretted at first because it's such a different look compared to halides. The halides looked brighter and more like the sun. But now I love em. It grew on me I guess. Sorry for the rant.

freezetyle
06-04-2012, 04:27 AM
You can borrow my module until your other ones come in. might help maintain the colour

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 05:11 AM
You can borrow my module until your other ones come in. might help maintain the colour

Thanks Jon, but I'm just going to order right away. If I need to, I can borrow 3 from Japarto and give him mine when they get in.

Aquattro
06-04-2012, 05:13 AM
You are familiar with my tank. You know that my highest rock is 12" below the water surface. Even now I run my SOLs at 60% and am still getting great colours. I started my LEDs at 60% and still bleached out some of my coral but was able to recover them, it just looked horrible during the recovery period. Just wanted to advise you based on experience.



I'll take that under advisement :) I suppose I'll get used to it, but when you first see it, it's like "what's wrong with your tank??" lol

Aquattro
06-07-2012, 05:56 AM
Ok, three more lights added, and I'm happy with it so far. I only got a brief glimpse of the full group on at 80% while playing with the programming, but very happy with the coverage. And with 6, I may even keep them below 100 for a few days :)
I'll post some pics as soon as I can get time, see what the color looks like to the camera.

gregzz4
06-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Glad to see you bought some more
Sorry to hear you had to buy some more :mrgreen:

Aquattro
06-07-2012, 01:04 PM
Glad to see you bought some more
Sorry to hear you had to buy some more :mrgreen:

Ya, me too :)

It's 5am, and even the moonlight coverage is better, so I think this should work out fine.
Now I'm just hoping my rail system can hold 40 pounds of light :razz:

StirCrazy
06-07-2012, 03:28 PM
http://www.members.shaw.ca/s.l.s/threadisuseless.jpg

christyf5
06-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Ok, three more lights added,

are you on the ichiban/college student diet now or did you sell a kidney? :wink:

Aquattro
06-07-2012, 05:12 PM
are you on the ichiban/college student diet now or did you sell a kidney? :wink:

I'm self sufficient. I removed the kidney and will eat that until I pay the lights off :razz:

christyf5
06-07-2012, 05:14 PM
I'm self sufficient. I removed the kidney and will eat that until I pay the lights off :razz:

ROFL!!!:mrgreen:

Bblinks
06-07-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm self sufficient. I removed the kidney and will eat that until I pay the lights off :razz:

HAHAHAHA! you are my hero! Thanks for the morning chuckle.:lol:

Aquattro
06-07-2012, 06:08 PM
HAHAHAHA! you are my hero! Thanks for the morning chuckle.:lol:

go ahead, laugh...you're not eating your own internal organs!!

Borderjumper
06-07-2012, 06:21 PM
go ahead, laugh...you're not eating your own internal organs!!

But once it's removed.. It's no longer an internal organ.. Just a nasty old kidney and besides you have.. Well errr had two... So what's the big dealio?

Delphinus
06-07-2012, 06:55 PM
This is totally not how I envisioned the zombie apocalypse starting. Stupid LEDs!!

gregzz4
06-07-2012, 09:15 PM
Thanks everyone for the great giggles

I, too, hope your budget mounting rails will hold all that dough

fishytime
06-08-2012, 12:24 AM
still think you should have gone with radions:razz:......although that would have meant you likely would have already been enjoying your kidney with some fava beans and a nice Chianti:wink:

Aquattro
06-08-2012, 12:33 AM
still think you should have gone with radions:razz:......although that would have meant you likely would have already been enjoying your kidney with some fava beans and a nice Chianti:wink:

Pretty sure I'd still need 6, and at 825 a pop, that was never an option! Even if I could get away with 4, that's still a huge difference, and for that extra bling (red lights??), I just don't see the value..

Duker
06-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Wow, Brad I can't wait to see it now. Looking forward to the light show.:biggrin:

Aquattro
06-08-2012, 06:11 PM
Wow, Brad I can't wait to see it now.

Ya, me either. Lights have been on the tank for 2 days, I still haven't seen it before the moonlight phase :) Hopefully today..

Bblinks
06-08-2012, 06:13 PM
Ya, me either. Lights have been on the tank for 2 days, I still haven't seen it before the moonlight phase :) Hopefully today..

How are you liking the lights Brad? More importantly how are the corals reacting to the change?

Aquattro
06-08-2012, 06:47 PM
How are you liking the lights Brad? More importantly how are the corals reacting to the change?


I don't know, I haven't got home in time to see them yet :) I did crank them down a bit in case, but the almost week with three at 100% went fine. Even the highest corals directly below the 40s had no problem soaking it all in. I hope to get home in time to see the lighting today...

Bblinks
06-08-2012, 07:55 PM
Glad to hear Brad. Hopefully the new intensity will give your corals enough new growth for the swap.:smile: