Help picking an Apex controller

[habs247]

For all of you out there using Neptune systems, I could use your help. Looking to add a controller to my brand new setup - and I'd like to make it as cost effective as possible. Hence my interest in the Apex Jr.

My setup is as follows (items relevant to a controller):
- Vertex Illumina SR200
- Tunze auto top off
- Koralias (may upgrade to Tunzes)
- heater (obviously)

Plans to keep SPS once my tank is established, in a year or so. So no reactor (and LPS) until then. As such, I can only think I'd need the controller to work with the listed equipment (and the reactor down the road). Am I forgetting anything?

Can I get away with JR? Or do I need to step up to the Lite?

Thanks in advance.

[The Grizz]

I would go with the Apex Full system Ray, it has the built in Led controls. If you go with the lite or Jr. You have to buy an extra module for them for LED controls I believe which makes the price very close to the same.

[habs247]

Thanks Greg. If I'm happy with the built in controller for the Vertex, is there any added benefit to hooking it up to the Apex? Sorry for not adding that to my original post - I meant to ask that previously.

[The Grizz]

Not to firmilliar with the built in controller on the Vertex but I believe it is the real deal & can do a great dust to dawn so you probably don't need the controller to handle it & in that case I would look at the Apex Lite, it has a much nicer display then the Jr.

[Enigma]

http://www.neptunesys.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=40

That is a very handy comparison chart between the different models, in case you haven't seen it yet. It helped me decide. :)

After I did my comparison, and then my cost analysis for future upgrades and plans, the full Apex was clearly the best choice for me. The Apex Lite would have cost me more in the long run, and the Jr. isn't as expandable.

I've ordered mine. Just waiting for it to arrive.

[habs247]

Thanks Enigma. I have seen that chart but I'm a bit confused about some of the features.

The differences I see between the Lite and the JR are that the former has (correct me if I'm wrong, not sure about any of this):

- ph out of the box with the addition of a probe (to add ph to the junior a pm1 module would be needed)
- a display (a big feature, but smartphone or pc could be used as a workaround)
- vdm (have no idea what it is or if I need it)
- legacy support (again, no idea what it is or if I'll need it given my setup)
- upgradability (a big feature - would I need more than 5 aquabus modules for the equipment I've listed above?)

Does this sound correct? Any insight from anyone on the above would be great. Thanks.

[habs247]

I also meant to ask a question about my auto top off unit - can this be controlled by any of the apex units or do they have a built in function for ato. In which case I guess I would sell my ato.

[Aquattro]

I also meant to ask a question about my auto top off unit - can this be controlled by any of the apex units or do they have a built in function for ato. In which case I guess I would sell my ato.

No, you would need to configure floats or switches, depending on your ATO setup.
A big question, and one that is hard to answer, is what are you going to need next year? You really want a display, it helps if you need to troubleshoot connectivity issues. A VDM is a variable speed/dimming module, so lots of LED and pumps will use this feature. The add-on VDM is about $120. Will you ever use a Ca Reactor, and need pH? Maybe.
At a bare minimum, I'd go with the Lite model, but if you need VDM, you've just paid more than the full package. Although, if you are ever considering AI Sol lights, you'll need the add-on VDM anyway.
The junior, while looking good price-wise, would probably just have you wishing you spent more and got the Lite.

[whatcaneyedo]

Legacy support means that you can use all of the old Neptune equipment on it like the old power bars and the breakout box. For those of us who used to have an AquaController this was a great feature because it meant we could continue to use as much of our old stuff as we wanted. To use the Apex to control your ATO you'll need to buy or make a breakout box and some individual float switches.

[habs247]

Ok gotcha. I had hoped it would be built in. Might be better just to keep my existing ato which works well instead of fiddling with a new system.

[Enigma]

Thanks Enigma. I have seen that chart but I'm a bit confused about some of the features.

The differences I see between the Lite and the JR are that the former has (correct me if I'm wrong, not sure about any of this):

- ph out of the box with the addition of a probe (to add ph to the junior a pm1 module would be needed)
- a display (a big feature, but smartphone or pc could be used as a workaround)
- vdm (have no idea what it is or if I need it)
- legacy support (again, no idea what it is or if I'll need it given my setup)
- upgradability (a big feature - would I need more than 5 aquabus modules for the equipment I've listed above?)

Does this sound correct? Any insight from anyone on the above would be great. Thanks.

I'm really new to all of this, but the above looks correct to me.

The VDM (Variable Speed/Dimming Module) will allow one to control most LED systems (I think) with the exception already noted. It will also allow one to control powerheads (I'm unsure of brand comparability).

I think it is very hard to determine how many modules someone will need. Technology changes things so rapidly. It may be that today only four would be required, but who knows what abilities will be available in a year or two. I personally don't like the limitation of 5 modules.

[The Grizz]

I still say go with the Apex full system as it has more built in functionality already just in case you upgrade something down the road. I have a Profilux 2ex on the 8'er but if I bought an Apex it would have been the full meal deal because you just never know what might be down the road.

[syncro]

You can expand any Apex model to get any feature offered by the higher models. It may or may not be cheaper in the long run to buy a more expensive model now.

For example, if you think down the road at most you'll add is pH then an Apex Jr. + pH expansion module is cheaper than an Apex Lite. If you think down the road you'll need pH + 8 outlets + VDM + display then the Apex Lite or Apex will be cheaper.

All depends on where you will go, but at least you won't have to throw away your initial investment regardless of your decision now.

Also these Apex units are rarely sold used and keep their value compared to most electronics.

[habs247]

Thanks everyone. I don't doubt I'll be back with questions re: getting it going!

[gregzz4]

Nothing worse than buying something new and finding out it's not expandable enough to meet your needs ...

I bought a different brand beginner level unit. Before I even took it off the LR rubbermaid it was running, I realized it would not handle all the modules I would need
I ended up buying the top level unit before I even had my DT ready to run

Add up what it will cost you to add all the things you'll need later ...

Nothing like spending it all now and not regretting it down the road :wink:

[habs247]

Thanks everyone. Now debating between the Lite and the full blown unit.

[Enigma]

You'll have to do the math to decide at this point. If you want a VDM at some point in time, it might be a couple of bucks cheaper for you to get the Apex: unless you're planning on using the AI Sols, as you'll need the actual VDM module for those and you can get the Lite.

At least three of the forum sponsors have very good pricing on them: Red Coral (I just got their last one), J&L (only has the full Apex in stock last time I checked), and Go Reef (don't remember what their stock is like). I've found that the pH probes are an extra cost for either the Lite or the Apex. The standard pH probe was originally included in the Apex packages, but it looks like that has changed. So, if you want the pH probe you're paying for it either way.

If you want to run two pH probes right off the bat, the Apex can do that without an additional module. So, if you want VDM and a second pH probe, go with the Apex as then you will save money (unless you still need to purchase the VDM module for AI Sols . . . then you'll break even or save a couple of bucks).

You'll have lots of options for expandability and few (if any) limitations with either unit, so even if you just base your purchase on what is in stock and readily available you can't really go wrong (though you may pay a bit more in the end).

[tinman]

if you go full blown apex you can do top off and tunze 6055 pumps or any tunze controllable units with the cables supplied by neptune or add the wireless unit for the vortech all work very well for me
if you go apex lite you need to add the vdm for the tunze and any 0-10 volt control but you can still do top off with a float switch or 2 depending on how you set it up.

[habs247]

if you go full blown apex you can do top off and tunze 6055 pumps or any tunze controllable units with the cables supplied by neptune or add the wireless unit for the vortech all work very well for me
if you go apex lite you need to add the vdm for the tunze and any 0-10 volt control but you can still do top off with a float switch or 2 depending on how you set it up.

This has me thinking. Would this mean i would be able to control my existing tunze ATO with the Neptune?

[habs247]

You'll have to do the math to decide at this point. If you want a VDM at some point in time, it might be a couple of bucks cheaper for you to get the Apex: unless you're planning on using the AI Sols, as you'll need the actual VDM module for those and you can get the Lite.

At least three of the forum sponsors have very good pricing on them: Red Coral (I just got their last one), J&L (only has the full Apex in stock last time I checked), and Go Reef (don't remember what their stock is like). I've found that the pH probes are an extra cost for either the Lite or the Apex. The standard pH probe was originally included in the Apex packages, but it looks like that has changed. So, if you want the pH probe you're paying for it either way.

If you want to run two pH probes right off the bat, the Apex can do that without an additional module. So, if you want VDM and a second pH probe, go with the Apex as then you will save money (unless you still need to purchase the VDM module for AI Sols . . . then you'll break even or save a couple of bucks).

You'll have lots of options for expandability and few (if any) limitations with either unit, so even if you just base your purchase on what is in stock and readily available you can't really go wrong (though you may pay a bit more in the end).

Thanks for this. Very helpful I had no idea they dropped the ph probe on the full blown Alex. The company website still lists the old package.

[tinman]

This has me thinking. Would this mean i would be able to control my existing tunze ATO with the Neptune?

nope....well you could turn it on and off at certain times i guess. what i meant is you can control the 6055 and other controllable tunze circulation pumps with the 0-10 volt and make all your profiles . for me i dont run a tunze topoff system i just installed a float switch in my sump connected to the apex and just plugged my ato pump into the appropriate socket and with alittle programing and a virtual outlet or 2 you have an ato. i use one float switch in my ato water container so i dont run the pump dry and one in the sump to look after the sump level, when my ato container gets too low, apex shuts down the socket the pump is plugged into and sends me a message to my phone and wont do anything till i fill the container. this system has worked very well for me, it may not be useful for everyone, just my 2 cents, and if you are real crafty you can program the apex to perform water changes as well, this feature i really love!

[habs247]

Thanks for this. I settled on the full apex unit. Like just about everyone has said, upgradability down the line is the main factor.

I've also been reading the unofficial Apex guide. Talk about effort on the author's part. Super helpful - should help avoid a bunch of mistakes.