This Chemistry Thing

[Enigma]

Chemistry has never been my strong point. I'm much more of a physics girl. I've been trying to get a grip on how parameters affect and relate to each other, but the old grey matter is just not puzzling through this.

I was doing my testing last night, and I was very pleased with the numbers I was getting: until I got to alk.

If I do something to increase my alk, what will that change? I would really like to avoid dosing . . . but I'm sceptical that I can. I don't want to get caught in a dosing spiral, where one thing is being dosed to be corrected, and another three things are being dosed to correct wonky values as a result of the first dosing.

[Seriak]

You Alk looks good, if I am reading your chart right. 7 dkh is fine. Mine was around 3 and I had to start dosing to bring it up. It's a little low, but nothing I would worry about.

[Aquattro]

You Alk looks good, if I am reading your chart right. 7 dkh is fine.

Agreed, leave it alone :)

[Enigma]

Oops.

I forgot to include the info that my Alk has dropped a lot in the last two weeks: from 9 to 7. I'm worried that it is going to continue to drop.

Everything else has really stabilized in the last two weeks. I've backed off on my water changes (doing fewer and less volume) and that seems to have really helped. My mag is still a litter lower than I would like to see, but it has improved (raised) quite significantly.

The improvement in this tank is crazy . . . considering what I've done to it. It is heavily (and temporarily) overstocked right now, as I shut down my Nano Cube due to temperature issues and moved everything into this one. One of the critters in the tank is being very heavily fed, too. It must have 4x the bioload that it should.

If my alk continues to drop . . . at what point do I panic and intervene?

[Cal_stir]

google Balanced calcium and alkalinity, some good reads

[Enigma]

google Balanced calcium and alkalinity, some good reads

Thanks!

95% of being able to figure this stuff out is in being to determine the correct search parameters.

This article looks promising:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

[burgerchow]

Chemistry has never been my strong point. I'm much more of a physics girl. I've been trying to get a grip on how parameters affect and relate to each other, but the old grey matter is just not puzzling through this.

I was doing my testing last night, and I was very pleased with the numbers I was getting: until I got to alk.

If I do something to increase my alk, what will that change? I would really like to avoid dosing . . . but I'm sceptical that I can. I don't want to get caught in a dosing spiral, where one thing is being dosed to be corrected, and another three things are being dosed to correct wonky values as a result of the first dosing.


For a 10 gal nano, you don't have to really worry about parameters. Just buy the best salt h20 or reefers best, do a 2 or 3 gallon water change every week and all the chemicals that you need should be in the salt.

[Enigma]

For a 10 gal nano, you don't have to really worry about parameters. Just buy the best salt h20 or reefers best, do a 2 or 3 gallon water change every week and all the chemicals that you need should be in the salt.

It won't be 10 gallons for long. We're moving it into a 40B within the next six weeks. It will still be a nano, but it will be a much bigger nano.

[burgerchow]

It won't be 10 gallons for long. We're moving it into a 40B within the next six weeks. It will still be a nano, but it will be a much bigger nano.

Even with a 40 gal, as long as you buy the top salts( which should have all your necessary chemicals in it ) I think you can get by with frequent 8-10 gal water changes,and not have to worry about dosing and other additives.
Makes life much easier. I used to dose regularly, but lost track of how much and when, mag.kalk.iodine. Etc. Now I just use the best salt and do 25 gal water change every 2 weeks

[Enigma]

Even with a 40 gal, as long as you buy the top salts( which should have all your necessary chemicals in it ) I think you can get by with frequent 8-10 gal water changes,and not have to worry about dosing and other additives.
Makes life much easier. I used to dose regularly, but lost track of how much and when, mag.kalk.iodine. Etc. Now I just use the best salt and do 25 gal water change every 2 weeks

It is very important to me that I figure out how this chemistry thing works: whether dosing is required or not.

On one hand, I've got people telling me that I don't need to dose anything and that water changes are sufficient. On the other hand, I've got people predicting an apocalypse in my tank if I don't.

As I don't even have a cursory understanding of the subject matter it is very difficult for me to sift through what I'm being advised.

What is most noteworthy for me is that they guy I'd be buying the dosing system from is advising me not to. But, with the apocalyptic predictions that have been implanted in my head running around in there . . . well . . . I just really need to get a grip on the chemistry to be able to decide for myself what approach I need to take.

[burgerchow]

It is very important to me that I figure out how this chemistry thing works: whether dosing is required or not.

On one hand, I've got people telling me that I don't need to dose anything and that water changes are sufficient. On the other hand, I've got people predicting an apocalypse in my tank if I don't.

As I don't even have a cursory understanding of the subject matter it is very difficult for me to sift through what I'm being advised.

What is most noteworthy for me is that they guy I'd be buying the dosing system from is advising me not to. But, with the apocalyptic predictions that have been implanted in my head running around in there . . . well . . . I just really need to get a grip on the chemistry to be able to decide for myself what approach I need to take.

ok, there's basically cheap salt like instant ocean $ 30-$40 for 160 gal pail, that has the bare minimum of trace elements and calc and mag, so you will have to add more via dosing

The better salt like DD H20 or Zeovit Reefer's Best at double the price that contain all the necessary trace elements and additives. Your choice.

I personally use DD H20 and don't really dose anymore. Just a little A/B mix by 2 Little Fishies when I remember to do it. But you've got to do the water changes regimentally if you don't dose.

[Enigma]

I use the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals.

According to this (http://www.rudyv.be/Aquarium/sels.pdf) it looks okay. Not the best, but not the worst, either. That document could be quite old, so it is possible that values have changed since it was published.

But of course, not being totally sure of what affects what, the document isn't a huge amount of use to me.

[beefORchicken]

water changes should be plenty for soft/LPS, sps would require daily dosing (my tank would deplete to half its alk each day if i didn't have a 2 part doser setup)

[whatcaneyedo]

That article and many others like it will give you an exceptional understanding of reef aquarium chemistry. Like you, I'm not a big fan of the subject either, but after reading a lot of Randy's work on ReefKeeping.com I feel pretty confident these days. Search the archives on that site and on advancedaquarist.com for more from him.

[rayjay]

Randy's articles are best and links can be found in the archives at:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605
From there, you can click on links like:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php
and many more links covering the big three of water conditions.

[fishytime]

shouldnt be an apocalypse if you dont dose.....I have a 110g display that is fairly SPS rich and I havnt dossed or even tested a thing in two years......just regular water changes with H2Ocean.......that being said, Im not getting huge growth out of my SPS, but colors are good and thats all that really matters to me....

[mattdean]

While I agree that having an understanding of the relationship between the different parameters we test for, I belivestability far outweighs ahving the number bang on. My alk has been as low as 3 and 4 for the longest time. Fearing an apocalypse of my own, I starting raising it slowly. Once I finally had my ALK up to 8, everything starting to burn, bleach and generally show me they were unhappy. So, I let it get back down to 4 or 5 and everything is happy again. I believe it is the large swings in parameters that create a problem.

[vanreefer]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=41&page=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

Home grown help!

[Enigma]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=41&page=1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

Home grown help!

Honestly, I don't understand an awful lot of the stuff in there. I'm not a total idiot (I'm a senior geomatics technologist who works in oil&gas) . . . But I sure do a good impersonation of one when trying to muddle my way through the more advanced chemistry stuff. I think most of this is pretty advanced. :lol:

I'm a numbers geek. I did develop an algebraic equation to help me adjust a single parameter through water changes. :)

Edit: Equation

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/waterchange-1.jpg

Proof:

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a435/Iasgair/file.jpg

It seems to work.

[Aquattro]

Uh, you might be over thinking the whole thing :)

[Enigma]

Uh, you might be over thinking the whole thing :)

:lol:

I was feeling overwhelmed by some of the advice I was getting. It gave me a sence of control, and boosted my confidence in my approach (not dosing).

Oh, and sometimes I just really enjoy working through a mathematical problem.

I also enjoy macramé and Scrabble. Life is never dull over here! ;)

(Just kidding . . . I hate Scrabble)

[whatcaneyedo]

If the specific articles don't tickle your fancy maybe invest in a good book to summarize everything for you. The Reef Aquarium Vol 3: Science, Art and Technology by Delbeek and Sprung isn't as advanced as the Randy articles but it does contain all of the basics and need-to-know information for a regular tank without being too brief. Once you've read a good all inclusive book or two, the articles are great for providing even more detail on specific topics if you so desire it.

Most of us aren't Chemistry Majors either. I'm an apprentice Carpenter with a BComm. But I do enjoy and know how to read and thats all you need. :razz:

[Enigma]

If the specific articles don't tickle your fancy maybe invest in a good book to summarize everything for you. The Reef Aquarium Vol 3: Science, Art and Technology by Delbeek and Sprung isn't as advanced as the Randy articles but it does contain all of the basics and need-to-know information for a regular tank without being too brief. Once you've read a good all inclusive book or two, the articles are great for providing even more detail on specific topics if you so desire it.

Most of us aren't Chemistry Majors either. I'm an apprentice Carpenter with a BComm. But I do enjoy and know how to read and thats all you need. :razz:

Thanks :) I'll check out the book. I'm reading a lot of Randy's work, but I do find that there are pieces of the puzzle that I'm still missing. It just hasn't "clicked" yet.