LED brand discussion

[daplatapus]

Ok, so I'm again getting close to pulling the trigger on my build. I'm really liking the heat sink from MakersLED. But every time I almost decide on an LED manufacturer I pause. Cree, Bridgelux, someone else? Talk to me about:
1) differences in power consumption, light quality, reliability etc.
2) Differences in drivers - inventronics, Meanwell
3) Minimum colors - RB, NW - or is CW, WW better. UV or no UV, true Violet?I've seen the difference adding green's and red's made in grizz's build and I like it. What ratio would you recommend.
I've read tons in build threads and can no longer keep anything straight in my head :)

[daplatapus]

Hmmmm, don't be shy :)

I've read a few posts on different sites that Bridglux LED's are no good and Cree is the best thing since sliced bread. But no one says why. What makes Cree so much better? Is there that much difference? If the Bridgelux are inferior, is it just a matter of brightness? Will adding more Bridgelux be equal to Cree or is the light quality inferior and there is just no comparison?
Please, any thought would be appreciated. Maybe I'm just over thinking everything....

[jtbadco]

my knowledge is limited but I will paraphrase what I was told in researching the same subject.

Apparently the double chip Bridgelux are ok but the single chip apparently doesnt deliver close to the true power of the led

[syncro]

Take with a grain of salt because I am researching as well:

- For white LEDs look for high CRI (color rendering index). 80 or higher ideally.
- Cree is the most popular at the moment because of a combination of quality color (i think CRI), efficiency (lumens per watt) and price. The impression I get is stick with Crees and you'll be safe. If you are willing to invest the time in research and experimentation you might be able to optimize one of cost/efficiency/color with other options.
- Bridgelux - sounds like some of the emitters are not very good (not sure why) while others are really good. There is a thread on nano-reef about the "evil cluster" using a large Bridgelux emitter.
- Some advice from Dave Fason of nano-box: choose Cree, Philips Luxeon Rebels or the commercial Bridgelux emitters for whites. For blues there are more options that are pretty good like some Chinese designed emitters.
- Meanwells are the Crees at the moment. Good quality, reasonable price. A safe choice. Inventronics and Thomas Research are supposed to be better quality. TR has some nice features like waterproofing and short circuit protection. But most builds are still using Meanwells.
- As for what colors to use and their ratios... from what I've read somewhere between 1:1 and 1:2 neutral white to royal blue is a good starting point. Ideally, whites and blues can be dimmed independently so you can choose your color. If you are willing to add the complexity, add a small amount cool blue, deep red and true violet. The problem with color is it is both subjective and depends on what you have in your tank. Check out the LED asthetic thread on nano-reef.

I feel your pain. There isn't a good guide on DIY led. You have to wade through thousands of posts and synthesize yourself. If you want a safe option, buy from modularled. If you want the best option (for you) keep reading :)

[mike31154]

What kind of answers are you expecting for those questions on a forum like this? Why not go directly to the Cree or Bridgelux web site & look up the specifications for the type of LED you intend to use & make the comparison. Same goes for the drivers. Only the manufacturers themselves will be able to provide the true answer. Their specification sheets will show you exactly what the colour spectrum is & how many lumens/watt the LED provides. Who knows what kind of agenda some person on a forum has that claims one is better than the other. In the end, it depends on the application.

The LED business is a rapidly evolving & highly competitive game at the moment with new innovations & products appearing almost daily. To the best of my knowledge in the 3 watt category, certain Cree LEDs have the best efficiency, i.e. most lumens per watt. That doesn't mean a Bridgelux is no good. It depends on what you're wanting to light up & whether a few more lumens per watt are going to provide any significant payback over the long or short term. If your hydro rates are low, you could save a few $$$ by getting a few more Bridgelux or cheaper generic LEDs for your build to get the same amount of light as fewer, more expensive Crees. Besides, there are other manufacturers out there designing LEDs with colour spectrums specific to marine tank requirements. Again, whether it's really worthwhile pursuing that is questionable when any old mixture of 10,000K & Royal Blue LEDs will do the job for you.

Maybe you are overthinking the deal. My own DIY LED fixture consists of generic, no name 10 watt multi-chip LED emitters. They may not be as efficient as a 3 watt Cree, but the price was right & 27 of them are doing a fine job of lighting up my tank. I run them below their maximum rating, using ony a fraction of the power I did with my retired 2x250 watt MH, 2x60 watt T5HO set up.

[daplatapus]

Thanks for the responses jtbadco and syncro. There's info there I can use to do further research.
Mike, I'm not sure why your opening comments are (to me) almost semi-hostile. I thought that's why we have forums like this. To talk about what we've seen work and what we've seen doesn't. Share experience.
I've been to Bridgelux and Cree's site's, I've reviewed their specs, and because I'm still learning and I'm not an electrician most of it is still greek to me. I do get confused in reading technical specs and I don't understand yet how that translates to PAR, CRI, nm, lumens or whatever else have you or how that affects the coral growth in our tanks, the health of our livestock, the total on my hydro bill etc.
And when you go to these manufacturers sites, they all say theirs is the best. Theirs is the most efficient. Theirs produces the only wave length of light needed. Blah, blah, blah. If anyone has an agenda, I'll bet it's a manufacturer of a product over fellow hobbyists who's just trying to get the most bang for his buck. Then there's the downright lies. Like jtbadco says, there are products out there that are rated at a certain level, but what you get is far from the truth. So really a manufacturer's site may give you some info, but real world experience was what I was looking for.
That being said, the rest of your comments are appreciated. I agree totally that this industry is growing like mad. Every time you turn around new products are being released and everyone is trying to sell you something. It all just adds to the confusion. What I'm noticing is that those who are building DIY fixtures for their tank are funny people. If they don't use Cree's and Meanwells, they don't specify what they ARE using. It almost seems that there is a fear out there that if you don't use the most expensive out there that you'll be thought less of. I guess that's with a lot of things in life, and I'm ok with using the most expensive if it's justifiable and it really IS better. I've seen very few write up's of people using generic or lower end fixtures but TONS using Cree and Meanwell.

I just wanted to know why.....

[Snaz]

Like all competitive technology that is in demand we will only see better product with lower prices each day that passes.

When to buy? When have a need and the budget.

[mike31154]

Apologies daplatapus, I didn't mean to come off as hostile. Just seems to me that brand discussions tend to turn into opinion matches in forums & I've already seen too many of them. Kind of like cars. Some folks swear by a certain manufacturer/brand, generally based on past experience. Yet manufacturers still make engineering boo boos that cause recalls & bankruptcy, take GM & Toyota as examples.

Poor excuse though, I should probably be a little less cynical in someone else's thread. It's most definitely tough to see the forest for the trees with LEDs these days.

[martinmcnally]

Cree has the highest lumens per watt. More light less power consumption. They they are the "brand-name" of LEDs these days. All most all of the high end fixtures are using Cree; Radion, AI Sol, AI Vega etc.

[mike31154]

Not DIY, but Kessil & Orphek both use LEDs supposedly of their own design, specifically engineered with optimum colour spectrum for marine livestock. Probably not as many lumens/watt as a Cree, but lumens/watt are not necessarily the whole story for our application. If I'm not mistaken, the Radion uses at least one other type of LED, Osram, although that's for their Red LED which is really only for colour tweaking.

[msjboy]

also check Philips LEDS.... they are actually better than the CREES in spectra and watts per lumens...

stevesleds.com for DIY , www.nano-box-reef.com for builds... also I some brands use a combination of both CREES and Philips in their product.

Also futureelectronics.com has lotsa specs and is in Canada but stevesleds.com is cheaper.

Goodluck with build. Lotsa new stuff/technology comig out everyday like 5W leds, 10W, etc... check reefbuilders.com for latest gadgets if you have not already.

msjboy

PS.... where does one in Port Alberni buy saltwater stuff? I heard one of the Cyr brothers ( ie former NHL player ) is into reefing from there.

[Cal_stir]

I have a DIY 72 3w LED, all cree XPG and XPE bin 5(clearest optics), 36 cool wh and 27 rb and 9 blue, dimmable meanwell drivers(0-10v) controlled with a RKE, spread out on a 48"x12" finned heat sink, no optics, it's about 2 years old and has worked flawlessly.

I wish I had went with 27 whites, 27 rb and 18 blue, those were all the colours at the time.

If I was doing it over I would add red, green and UV,( I might pop 9 of the whites and add 3 of each ) but I don't think I would change anything else.

Do the research, with some of the new fixtures on the market, I'm not sure if DIY is the way to go anymore. Personally I like the looks of the new Sunbrite fixtures (and the price for that matter).

[StirCrazy]

cree, bridgelux, phillips are probably your top 3 brand names. anyone of thoes will give good results. as for the lumen/watt wait an hour and one of these three will bring out a new LED that is the best...... Cree is the name because they were the first to bring out a powerfull LED at a reasonable price plus they have realy been pushing the new developments, which is why you see about 4 different versions of cree LED being used in DIY builds over the last two years.

bang for buck I would have to say I am leaning towards bridgelux myself for my build now. at 1/2 the price people want for the new cree's its a no brainer. just for info I am looking at using one nutral white one royal blue and one true violate per cluster. I am not sold on the green and reds, and have seen tanks looking just as good with out them. now if your using 10K for you white I can see where the red and green might help.

Steve

[GinaReef]

I have a DIY led build, It has 18 cool white, 13 royal blue 3 watt Bridgelux leds and chinese drivers that came in a kit from china. I added 2 red and 2 UV 3 watt leds from rapidled. After only 6 months, one of the cheap chinese drivers failed.

The colour was fine but the colous don't 'pop'. I haven't figured out which colour I need to add to get the 'pop' but I know the 3 watt reds are too strong to use except in very high ratios (1:20, 1:30) or maybe very deep tanks. I had to build filters to damp them down.

I have new drivers on order from rapidled (meanwell elm 60-48 dimmable) and some more royal blue and cool white to swap out some of my existing leds to see if there is a colour change.

Just some thoughts on my experience.

Gina

[bioload]

I've used 50:50 Cree XPG CW & RB and wasn't entireley happy with the colour. 48 LED's to cover 48"x18" footprint.

Using Bridgelux 50:50 14K's & RB's and please with the improvement so far, but I'm also using 80 LED's on a 48"x18" footprint.

Haven't used the Phillips :(

[daplatapus]

Thank's everyone for all their comments and input. I made my decisions and have ordered a whack load of stuff for my nano that I'm building to hook onto my existing system. I'll play around with it and make adjustments before I build an LED for my main DT. I'm excited!:D

[symon_say]

I know you already ordered, but to share my experience, i was in the same debate a few months back when i was setting my tank, but i'm kind of a cheap guy and don't like to spend more than necessary, so i went with the bridgelux route simply because they are cheaper.

Given that setting a new tank from 0 is a lot of money specially a 160g system i could'd afford all the leds i planned for my tank, i wanted 90-100 leds over a 66x20 tank, but i buy 36 in front given that i would put any corals to start with, but destiny change my plans and i get a few corals for cheap and put then in the tank on the sand bed, to my surprise they open and start to grow with just 36 leds in a 22" depth tank, i even add LPS and they were doing fine.

A few months later i purchase 36 more leds, and grow was even better so i decided i didn't need any more leds and this fixture is enought for what i want to keep LPS and some softies.

If you have the money and don't care spending it, go for the cree, they are better and give you more lummen per watt, but is you are like me and put money up front a evaluate by the cost of the things not the price, bridgelux put more lummens per dollar than cree and that makes it a winner for me.

Other thing is LED technology is going to fast and is not that smart to invest in the best product in the market, simply because there will be something better in a few months and the one you pay high price is now cheaper, better go with a medium range and wait until the market settle down a little.

A friend of mine told that i just throw my money because bridgelux won't last 5 years, i just tell him, in 5 years leds will be one of the cheaper equipment for a SW tank, last year high end leds fixture were $700+ today you can have a lot of then for less than $500.

[Nano]

I have a DIY led build, It has 18 cool white, 13 royal blue 3 watt Bridgelux leds and chinese drivers that came in a kit from china. I added 2 red and 2 UV 3 watt leds from rapidled. After only 6 months, one of the cheap chinese drivers failed.

The colour was fine but the colous don't 'pop'. I haven't figured out which colour I need to add to get the 'pop' but I know the 3 watt reds are too strong to use except in very high ratios (1:20, 1:30) or maybe very deep tanks. I had to build filters to damp them down.

I have new drivers on order from rapidled (meanwell elm 60-48 dimmable) and some more royal blue and cool white to swap out some of my existing leds to see if there is a colour change.

Just some thoughts on my experience.

Gina
Magenta/violet helps colors pop not sure if bridgelux makes them though

[StirCrazy]

Magenta/violet helps colors pop not sure if bridgelux makes them though


Bridgelux makes a TV (true Violet) LED


Steve

[blair]

i just built a 120 bridgelux with a few of the uv,s in there not overly bright, i would think you need alot of them to make a difference also got the pinks there pretty sweet but they do make an actinic violet i wish i would have bought im sure that will add sum pop, i love the bridgelux kit so far, the only prob is dont expect much from there manual pots and be carefull which drivers you get alot of them you can not hook up a nice digital outfit to dim them, anybody good with figuring out a decent manual pot??