RTN!! $@#&!!

[chris121277]

Well Crap!!!


Looks like there is a section at the base of my "branching confer echinopora" that is RTN-ing...... I'm keeping an eye on it at the moment and if it get is any bigger I will frag off the branches and sacrifice the rest of the coral.....there's no way I'm risking letting this spread to any of my other SPS's (there finally starting to look really good)

Here's what I'm dealing with.....any suggestions would be appreciated

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290053.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290054.jpg

the rest of the coral seems to be happy

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290055.jpg

[Snaz]

The coralline directly in front of it looks sick too. Is there a bright light shining in that spot?

[Aquattro]

Maybe it's the pic, but all the SPS look white...?

[chris121277]

I changed the bulbs a few days ago and went alot blue er this time....I just haven't got the with balance on the camera set right......give me a sec and I'll try again.

[chris121277]

not that I wanted to...but I'm not willing to risk this spreading.....I went in hacked it all up :sad:

pic's are uploading

[chris121277]

Still haven't quite got the camera settings right.....but this gives you a more natural looking color

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290055-1.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290054-1.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4290053-1.jpg

[Aquattro]

Hard to tell, but they look almost completely bleached.

[reefwars]

Hard to tell, but they look almost completely bleached.


thats kinda how im seeing it too, what issues were you having before??

[chris121277]

Hard to tell, but they look almost completely bleached.


I can't get the camera set just right on the color.....they are quite light, and have been growing faster under the new lights.....I just assumed that was the color they should be as they were really browning out under my old fixtures.

I changed out 2 current 36" 4-bulb fixtures in Dec to a 48" Tech 8 bulb fixture.

[fencer]

Start cutting now

[chris121277]

thats kinda how im seeing it too, what issues were you having before??



Nothing.....I just added this and a few other corals a few days ago, (I bought them from a local guy that was shutting down)

So far the red planet still looks fine.....not the best color but like I said it's only been in for a few days.

[Ryan]

Tis the season for RTN and tank crashes it seems.

[Snappy]

Have you dipped to confirm you don't have any AEFW?

[chris121277]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85740

[Aquattro]

Looking at that link, they all look very bleached. How long is your light cycle?

[chris121277]

Have you dipped to confirm you don't have any AEFW?

No...I didn't think that would be necessary.....I bought then from Danny Z when he shut down and he never had any problems with them.

Should I have?

[Aquattro]

Should I have?

Ya, always with any new coral, regardless of where it came from

[chris121277]

Looking at that link, they all look very bleached. How long is your light cycle?

Dusk to dawn (4x54watt T-5) 7:30-8
day lights (4x54watt T-5) 8:30-7

That should be ok right?

[chris121277]

My bulbs are as follows

4x ATI Blue+
2x ATI Aquablue special
1x Giessaman Aqua pink
1x Giessaman Pure Actinic

[Aquattro]

Might be a bit much. I use about 7 hours of daylight, seems to work well. With too much light, they can over oxidize nutrients at the cellular level, causing bleaching. I'd maybe back off a few hours and let them darken up, then reassess from there.

[chris121277]

So.....is my dusk to dawn ok? or should I be backing that off as well?

[Aquattro]

So.....is my dusk to dawn ok? or should I be backing that off as well?

Depends on the intensity of the light, I'm not familiar with T5. I use a single actinic from 8am to 1:30pm, then daylight until 8:30, then back to the actinic until midnight. Works way better for me over my previous 10 or 11 hour daylight cycle. Saves on bulbs too.

[chris121277]

This may be a stupid question....but if they were bleached....would I suddenly experience a growth spurt?

The last 2 months or so my other SPS's have been growing by leaps and bounds

[Aquattro]

Not sure, but I'd guess probably not. And it's possible I'm just not seeing the pics right, but even with the white balance off, you should see some color. The RP, you can see the polyps fine, so I have to assume the tissue is white. It should be red, or under less light, a green tinge. Not white.

[reefermadness]

I'm sorry to say but I don't see any truly healthy corals in those pictures. Extremely pale and bleached looking corals. Pale colors are from too much light, and/or too little bioload-feedings....

Yes you can experience a tempory growth spurt when corals are put into this environment but soon they stop growing and things go down hill.

[chris121277]

Not sure, but I'd guess probably not. And it's possible I'm just not seeing the pics right, but even with the white balance off, you should see some color. The RP, you can see the polyps fine, so I have to assume the tissue is white. It should be red, or under less light, a green tinge. Not white.


The RP and the one that I had RTNing have only been in my tank for a few days.....so I don't think they would be good to use for an idea of my corals....

but here...this was a few days ago of my Milli, is this bleached?

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4240049.jpg

[Aquattro]

Ya, that's a white milli, which don't exist in nature :)

[reefermadness]

That looks kinda cool but ya that is a bleached green millepora....these corals are stressed.

[chris121277]

Ya, that's a white milli, which don't exist in nature :)


Ok....so I'm a little confused on what I should do about it.....a week or so ago I changed bulbs.....I went from 4 to 2 "day light" bulbs.

Now I just changed my timeer to pull back the day light to 7 hours.....but the new bulbs should be better for color as well...right?

Should I just do that for now?

[Aquattro]

What are you running in the reactors? Do you have fish in here? Do you feed them a fair amount?

[chris121277]

That looks kinda cool but ya that is a bleached green millepora....these corals are stressed.

well....a few months ago (under my old fixtures) it was a brown "green" Millipora so....guess I went from one extreme to the other...lol

I also started Bio Pellets about 3 months ago.....so should they not supply some additional food for them?

[reefermadness]

I would say to drop your daylights down to 5 or 6hrs (temporayily but maybe 7-8 after colours come back).....keep your actinic period 11 or 12 that is fine. If you think you have a low fish load and dont feed much, well you can up those....possibly significantly. Also Amino Acids might help till you get things back in order.

**edit** bio-pellets is another clue...you need to feed a lot more after your biopellets get working. Sounds like you have both problems....too long of a photo period and too low nutrient/bioload/feedings.

[FitoPharmer]

New bulbs could help, or make the problem worse.

If your bulbs are old, and/or you were running them for longer then normal, that could cause a bleaching problem.

New bulbs will be brighter. With little zooxanthellea left to protect them from light damage it could cause them to give up the ghost. If you do get new bulbs, you might want to reduce your light cycle even more, or raise your fixture up until their color starts to return, then slowly go back to normal.

[chris121277]

What are you running in the reactors? Do you have fish in here? Do you feed them a fair amount?

I have carbon in one and Bio Pellets in the other

My fish are
1 Hippo Tang
1 Sail Fin Blenny
1 Mandarin
1 Coral Goby
2 Purcs
1 High Fin Goby
1 6 line Wrasse
1 Yellow Tang

I feed once a day.....either 1/2 a cube Mysis, Brine shrimp or a pinch of new life spectrum pellets........with a pinch of algae/sea weed pellets every other day

[Aquattro]

....too long of a photo period and too low nutrient/bioload/feedings.

Ya, that's my guess too.

[Aquattro]

My fish are
1 Hippo Tang
1 Sail Fin Blenny
1 Mandarin
1 Coral Goby
2 Purcs
1 High Fin Goby
1 6 line Wrasse
1 Yellow Tang

I feed once a day.....either 1/2 a cube Mysis, Brine shrimp or a pinch of new life spectrum pellets........with a pinch of algae/sea weed pellets every other day

Kinda light. In my tank with 12 fish (bigger than your load), I feed mysis or plankton twice a day, a full sheet of nori everyday and I toss some various pellets and flakes in when I'm hanging out at the tank. the frozen is usually at least a 1x1 square, rinsed in a strainer.

[chris121277]

Kinda light. In my tank with 12 fish (bigger than your load), I feed mysis or plankton twice a day, a full sheet of nori everyday and I toss some various pellets and flakes in when I'm hanging out at the tank. the frozen is usually at least a 1x1 square, rinsed in a strainer.

What size of tank are you running man?

Am I wrong in interpreting that Bio Pellets will provide a food source for my corals as well as help with trates/phos?

[daniella3d]

They all look bleached and starving. start feeding these corals and not fish food. Give some amine acid like the one from Zeovit and coral vitalizer from zeovit. Fauna marin have good coral food too. They are in very bad shape and they will probably die if the conditions are not changed.

I would reduce the light to acclimate them to the new light slowly and feed them each day.

None of them have the right color and look normal.

[Aquattro]

What size of tank are you running man?

Am I wrong in interpreting that Bio Pellets will provide a food source for my corals as well as help with trates/phos?

I've got a 180 with larger fish. I haven't used biopellets, but have heard they can starve the tank of PO4 and NO3, both essential in small amounts to fuel growth. Not sure about them feeding corals, I haven't heard that, but I haven't looked either.

[FitoPharmer]

Some companies claim the bacteria that feed on the bio pellets, no3, and po4 feed corals. I have never seen or heard of hard evidence.

[chris121277]

They are in very bad shape and they will probably die if the conditions are not changed.



I think that might be a little extreme, I've been growing most of these corals for 4+ years and last few months I've gotten better growth and color then ever.

Now, I'm not denying that they may be a little pale/bleached...that being said I do appreciate the input on coral foods.....I've always been taught that SPS's don't need any other then fish poo....and I will be looking into some.

[Aquattro]

I've never directly fed corals "coral food", only feed the fish and they take care of fertilizing. I did notice loss of vibrance for the period where I was without fish.
I don't think you're in immediate danger of them dying, although I would guess they are in a weakened state and that might have something to do with the tissue loss.

[reefermadness]

I've never directly fed corals "coral food", only feed the fish and they take care of fertilizing. I did notice loss of vibrance for the period where I was without fish.
I don't think you're in immediate danger of them dying, although I would guess they are in a weakened state and that might have something to do with the tissue loss.+1

[chris121277]

The coral that has tissue loss has only been in my tank for a few days....so I do suspect that it's due to stress from the move to it's new home....this coral is quite brown so I don't believe that it is bleached.

But now that you guys mention it I do noticed that alot of my SPS's are very pail. So I've backed my day lighting off to about 7 hours....but I can't help but wonder if the new bulbs will make a difference them selves in a few weeks...

My old bulbs were only 3 months old but for day light I had
1-6500k Giesseman
1-1000k Current
2-1400k Giesseman

And my new day bulbs

2-ATI 1200k

What promoted me to change out my not so old bulbs was this Article by CoralProps in witch he say's that some of the bulbs I was running had a tendency to brown out some corals and stress others.

http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html

My thought behind this is that I don't want to make to many changes all at once...then if something get's better or worse I won't know exactly what it was to change it.

What do you guys think?

[chris121277]

Have you dipped to confirm you don't have any AEFW?


Hey Greg,

Your a T-5 guy are you not? Just wondering.....if this was one of your tanks with an 8 bulb fixture over it....what bulbs and configuration would you run?

The tank is only 20" deep so how about height off the water?

Thanx, appreciate everyone's input here :lol:

[reefermadness]

I think we have gotten to the point where good skimmers are very affordable...people are trying carbon dosing, gfo etc and I'm seeing many people with the the same symptoms. In fact I've helped quite a few and all of them have improvement after listening to my advise.

[chris121277]

I think we have gotten to the point where good skimmers are very affordable...people are trying carbon dosing, gfo etc and I'm seeing many people with the the same symptoms. In fact I've helped quite a few and all of them have improvement after listening to my advise.


Oh I forgot to mention that I'm increasing my feeding as well.....and I am listening don't you worry LOL

So, the other people have had the SPS's pale after starting Bio pellets?.....see I've been unsure as to what has started the change in my corals (changed to many things at once) I started Pellets and upgraded my lights, switched to H20 pro salt, and changed my flow all at the same time :doh:

[reefermadness]

Yes....people have reported similar results from biopellets. Also you can get bleaching from new bulbs as well....

In the simplest of terms coral lightening/bleaching/paleness is from too much light and/or too little food/nutrients. Coral browning is the opposite....not enough light and/or too much food/nutrients.

Gotta find that sweat spot!

[ottoman]

Yes....people have reported similar results from biopellets. Also you can get bleaching from new bulbs as well....

In the simplest of terms coral lightening/bleaching/paleness is from too much light and/or too little food/nutrients. Coral browning is the opposite....not enough light and/or too much food/nutrients.

Gotta find that sweat spot!

+1...totally agree...Before I feed less to control nutrients, but after I run biopellets, I have to feed more because the cycle is taking out the nutrients much faster from the system.

[daniella3d]

Ultra low nutrients systems do tend to make coral pastel in color but nowhere near the bleaching you have. Corals are actually very colorfull and saturated in color in a ULN.

I don't see much if any color in your corals. They should very saturated in color.

Look at any zeovit sytem and you will see how they should be in a ULN. IN a system with nitrates and phosphates like mine, they don't have to be brown. Mine are very colorfull, just darker in color and very far from brown, but I do feed them coral food each day.

Oh I forgot to mention that I'm increasing my feeding as well.....and I am listening don't you worry LOL

So, the other people have had the SPS's pale after starting Bio pellets?.....see I've been unsure as to what has started the change in my corals (changed to many things at once) I started Pellets and upgraded my lights, switched to H20 pro salt, and changed my flow all at the same time :doh:

[chris121277]

I have raised my lights up an inch and cut back on day lighting.....any idea how long it will take to see a difference in them?

[reefermadness]

weeks for slight improvements.....months for a complete turn around. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

[fishytime]

I would bank on the bio-pellets being the issue....my lights are on from 10am to midmight between the actinics and daylights and you know what my coral looks like.....I think your sps went through nutrient shock not over exposure to light.....

[chris121277]

I would bank on the bio-pellets being the issue....my lights are on from 10am to midmight between the actinics and daylights and you know what my coral looks like.....I think your sps went through nutrient shock not over exposure to light.....


Something that I don't get about this is that I still have all kinds of algae growing in my fuge and I do still have a slight amount of turf algae in my display.

How deep is your display and how high are you lights off the water there Doug?


And to be honest, I didn't think they looked bad......I went from brown SPS's to pale (with color)

I'm going to try and get some better pic's with the white balance set as close to right as I can.

[chris121277]

These still aren't perfect......I'm having a hell of a time with how blue my lights are now and getting the camera to show what I'm seeing

But....I know I haven't got the best color....but do they really look bad enough for me to be paranoid about?

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300053.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300054.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300055.jpg

this one looks alot paler do to the glare from the lights

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300056.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300057.jpg
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/chris121277/reef%20tank/P4300058.jpg

Well....no now that I look all the pic's......the colors are way more vivid in person....maybe I should try again after the day lights turn off

[daniella3d]

To me they look quite bad but I am used to see corals with loads of colors, here are some of mine. Maybe that's because I am used to dark and very saturated SPS.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_1228s.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_1082s.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_1099s2.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_0881s.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_0966s.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy143/daniella3ds/103_1497s.jpg

[Aquattro]

...but do they really look bad enough for me to be paranoid about?


Ya, if they were mine, I'd worry about it.

[Casey8]

Daniella, your sps corals are looking fabulous with amazing color :shocked!: I can't believe they had been poisoned from Kent carbon before... I highly doubt about it :wink:
Half of mine are still struggling with their color, especially all the blue and purple ones.

[Cugio]

The colors of your SPS in your totm 2011 pictures look more like what they should look like.

[chris121277]

Thank you everyone for your input, I'll start a new thread for help getting them to color back up, as well as post some pic's along the way :wink:


By the way...the coral that I started the thread about hasn't lost any tissue since I fragged it :biggrin:

[fishytime]

[QUOTE=chris121277;711913]How deep is your display and how high are you lights off the water there Doug?[QUOTE]

my display is 20" deep and my lights are 4-5" off the surface

[chris121277]

[QUOTE=chris121277;711913]How deep is your display and how high are you lights off the water there Doug?[QUOTE]

my display is 20" deep and my lights are 4-5" off the surface


Well....what the heck, mine is 20" as well and I have had mine at about 5-1/2" off the water.

[chris121277]

the new thread

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=712157&posted=1#post712157

[daniella3d]

some of these pics were before the poisoning, but they are recovering slowly. The aqua SPS is more green now but it is recovering the blue slowly. All the blue in the coral disapeared with the copper, but it is slowly coming back.

But the purple one was never affected by the copper and look as good today as it did before, strangly. Some SPS bleached completely and died.

The first pic is right before the poisoning and the last pic is the same coral a few weeks ago, like 2 months after the poisoning.

It was the same for me and the blue was most affected and it is the hardest color to get back now. The blue dragon is now all brown.


Daniella, your sps corals are looking fabulous with amazing color :shocked!: I can't believe they had been poisoned from Kent carbon before... I highly doubt about it :wink:
Half of mine are still struggling with their color, especially all the blue and purple ones.