DAMSELS what is your opinion on them

[tt101]

hey guys,
i am really looking to add some colorful small fish to my tank and time and time again i gravitate to the damsel tanks.....something about that bright blue and yellow just magnetically pulls me towards them....but alas i keep hearing about their aggression so i slowly and saddly turn around and walk away from it without looking back. the other day i was at a lfs and the had a 125g display with some type of tang and a pair of clowns and a few other randoms but in it they also had a few azure and blue and gold damsels so that got me thinking. if they can live peacefully if introduced after everyone else is well acclimated?
thanks for the help

[lockrookie]

evil...but so are my two sets of clowns mostly towards me mind you but damsels are evil towards everyone else in tank

[Nano]

Mine was a real @$$ he's somewhere else now lol

[Proteus]

Hate em

That is all

[tt101]

yeaaaahhhh i think im going to stay the HELL away from now on.......too bad though. can you imagine if they were not aggressive how popular they would be

[tt101]

im just reading some peoples expriences online and some people even call them peaceful......this is so not fair. i dont wanna risk it but if i do and it works out then im very lucky.......UGHGHGH

[paddyob]

Avoid them unless you are going all damsels or an aggressive species tank.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I found the blue with yellow tail damsels are peaceful. Most others are quite aggressive. I have a pair of rescued Sgt. Majors that are huge for damsels, but they are only aggressive towards each other.

[dc4]

im just reading some peoples expriences online and some people even call them peaceful......this is so not fair. i dont wanna risk it but if i do and it works out then im very lucky.......UGHGHGH

The problem is that once you add them to the tank, if they dont work out, you will be tearing up your rockwork to catch them.

[cichlid000]

Think they tolerate the fish they are used to, but hard to introduce new fish afterwards once they are grown. Mine is with 2 clowns and he is fine with them, but I'll put my scraper in there to clean the algae off the sides of the tank and he is attacking it, and I mean attacking & bumping it. Its so much bigger then he is, that I couldn't imagine if it was another fish!

[bauder1986]

The odd damsel you will find to be very peaceful but for the most part, most damsels are @ssholes and can be very disruptive to a tank

[paddyob]

There is a reason they are cheaper than a Big Mac.

An even bigger red flag is that people GIVE them away.

[mike31154]

The yellow tailed blue damsel in my 77 gal is low man on the totem pole. Spawning Maroon clownfish pair, Yellow tang, & Singapore angelfish all keep him in line. Don't really know the outcome in anyone's particular tank, so that's probably why it's best to avoid them. The female Maroon & a Blue Devil damsel were the first two additions when I started the system & they pretty much stayed out of each other's hair. That Blue Devil was way more aggressive than the yellow tail I currently have. But like you, I really admire the blue colour. The Blue Devil died a couple years after developing some cancerous looking growth on it's tail fin. The current Yellow tail was a kind donation from another reefer & I'm happy to have him for the colour he adds.

Chromis are much less aggressive & also belong to the damsel clan, but alas, they're nowhere near as colourful. I had a group of three for a while but they all died eventually. Larger ones started picking on the smaller, one got isolated from the group & then they were all gone.

[Reef Pilot]

Get an Azure Damsel. They are colorful, but don't share the aggressive traits of their other Damsel cousins. I have one, and he is always been a model citizen with his tank mates.

[Flash]

i havd 5... 3 live in my sump as the other ones starting to rip thier fins off...

2 are in my work tank and get along fine with a killer oranger skunk clown... no way would i put these fis into my display tank... i like my other fish too much!!!

[coolhandgoose]

I think chromis are a type of damsel and they are very peaceful. Get a school of 3 or 5 of them and they look awesome with their flashing scales.

[tt101]

i might add everyone else first and then add a few damsels and hope and pray it goes well.......otherwise.......to the toilet they go. but i don't want to risk it and yeah the chromis are related but IMHO they do not compare in color.....i could have done a damsel tank with a pair of clowns and an angel.....that wuld have been good.....i'll have to think about it

[Flash]

don't flush them.... don't even bother with them honestly.... but if you insist on getting them, good luck catching them.. and when you catch them... they can go into my sump with the rest of my damsels!!

[tt101]

don't flush them.... don't even bother with them honestly.... but if you insist on getting them, good luck catching them.. and when you catch them... they can go into my sump with the rest of my damsels!!


i would not have the heart to flush them lol......if i never got my mandarin yesterday i would have made this a damsel tank.....i doubt he would do well with them and i love him so i am not risking it

[Flash]

i made my work tank a damsel tank.... cheap and colorful! lol!

[tt101]

i made my work tank a damsel tank.... cheap and colorful! lol!

haha that sounds awesome, congrats. i might set up a 10 gal with a couple damsels sometime soon lol

[rusty shackleford]

i had a 4 stripe that would attack my hand when it came close to his rock, evil thing..

when i got my female mandarin the 4 stripe swam over to her and flicked sand on her with his tail, so he spent the night in a bucket and went back to the store in the morning.

took me hours to catch him too, and my tanks only 48 gallons.

[Coasting]

Very interested in this topic....
How do you guys think a 30-40gal tank would do with a few yellow tails? Do you think it would be possible, how long would it be "nice" for? Any chance a sleeper goby of some sort would survive in there with just damsels?

[Flash]

i have a 25gl at work with a orange skunk clown and two damsels... everyone is fine!

[albert_dao]

I think I can help you out here. List of Damsels I would consider to be highly desirable reef fish:

Most Chrysiptera species, including
- Starki Damsels
- Tabolt's Damsels
- Yellowtail Damsels
- Rollandi Damsels
- Springer's Damsels

Most members of the Pomacentrus, including
- Alleni Damsels
- Pomacentrus coelestis

A few Chromis species, namely
- Green Chromis (don't buy a huge school unless you have a big tank AND something that will harass them, otherwise you'll end up with a pair)
- Vanderbilt Chromis
- Chromis operculari
- Chromis retrofasciata

What to avoid:

Pretty much everything else.

[albert_dao]

Very interested in this topic....
How do you guys think a 30-40gal tank would do with a few yellow tails? Do you think it would be possible, how long would it be "nice" for? Any chance a sleeper goby of some sort would survive in there with just damsels?

Just get one Yellowtail. Two, even three can work, but if it doesn't, you're throwing away a fish and adding a spot of grief to your life.

[ponokareefer]

They're great to put in a tank with a lionfish for entertainment. :lol:

[Flash]

that's how I got my for free.. they were too fast for the lion and eel! loL!

[Coasting]

Just get one Yellowtail. Two, even three can work, but if it doesn't, you're throwing away a fish and adding a spot of grief to your life.

Ive heard just as many conflicting stories about keeping a small group of chromis in a tank as a small group of damsels, at least with the damsels I get more colour then the green chromis.

So it would be either a few Damsel or a few Chromis. Ideally with something to clean the sand..... But the idea of a school of silver fish doesn't really appeal to me, which is why I was leaning towards a few damsel instead, unless I could do a variety of single chromis?

[albert_dao]

Ive heard just as many conflicting stories about keeping a small group of chromis in a tank as a small group of damsels, at least with the damsels I get more colour then the green chromis.

So it would be either a few Damsel or a few Chromis. Ideally with something to clean the sand..... But the idea of a school of silver fish doesn't really appeal to me, which is why I was leaning towards a few damsel instead, unless I could do a variety of single chromis?

Long-term Chromis schools tend to deteriorate into a single pair unless, as I mentioned earlier, you have a large tank (200+ gallons), a really big school (20ish+) and something that harasses them. Chromis do not school in the sense that something like a freshwater Cardinal Tetra does. That is, they don't school because they're socially docile. They have a pecking order that is only maintained due to the constant threat of predation. Subtract that from the equation and they just end up behaving as any damsel would.

A good example would be my buddy Fooser. He threw something like 30 Chromis into his 300 gallon tank. There's now two. It looks really stupid. I'll see if he can chime in here for ya.

Edit: If you REALLY want something that schools, grab some Blue Eyed Cardinals. They tend to form pretty stable schools and look AWESOME when they're older.

[Coasting]

Im not interested in them for the schooling aspect at all which is why I was also inquiring about a few different types of chromis (like say blue/green, bicolour, orange line, etc) but just 1 of each. Part of what I'm looking at is the cost of the fish too (as bad as that sounds) I have ideas for this tank as well as the future hopefully larger one, and I want to keep the small one more for my coral, but I want to toss in a few inexpensive fish that will add some life to the tank which is why I initally though of 3-4 yellowtail damsels or 3-4 different chromis... Added at the same time. But not if their just going to up and kill each other. Theres so much conflicting information on them out there.

[albert_dao]

Im not interested in them for the schooling aspect at all which is why I was also inquiring about a few different types of chromis (like say blue/green, bicolour, orange line, etc) but just 1 of each. Part of what I'm looking at is the cost of the fish too (as bad as that sounds) I have ideas for this tank as well as the future hopefully larger one, and I want to keep the small one more for my coral, but I want to toss in a few inexpensive fish that will add some life to the tank which is why I initally though of 3-4 yellowtail damsels or 3-4 different chromis... Added at the same time. But not if their just going to up and kill each other. Theres so much conflicting information on them out there.

You can pretty much count on the difference between species being a non-factor when it comes to aggression. A damsel is very often a damsel towards other damsels, haha.

When you're looking at information, especially in this hobby, look for trends. Don't accept the exception just because you WANT it to be true. Might as well set up a personal charity for donations to your favorite LFS at that point :P

[mike31154]

i would not have the heart to flush them lol......if i never got my mandarin yesterday i would have made this a damsel tank.....i doubt he would do well with them and i love him so i am not risking it

Actually a mandarin is generally fine with damsels. The danger with mandarins is mostly competition for their food source of pods, unless they've been trained to eat prepared food, which few will survive on long term. Mandarins do their thing & are left alone by most fish, even aggressive ones due to a distasteful coating they have. I've seen my damsel try to nudge my mandarin away from it's perceived territory, but that's about it. My Maroon clownfish has also only ever nudged the mandarin when he lingers a little too close to a clutch of eggs. Never any harm done. BTW, just in case you're not aware, clownfish are included in the damsel species.

[Coasting]

You can pretty much count on the difference between species being a non-factor when it comes to aggression. A damsel is very often a damsel towards other damsels, haha.

When you're looking at information, especially in this hobby, look for trends. Don't accept the exception just because you WANT it to be true. Might as well set up a personal charity for donations to your favorite LFS at that point :P

Sure a damsel is a damsel towards other species of damsel, and chromis are related to damsel but that doesnt say what will happen with 4 species of chromis in 1 tank, kept as singles. Since their not the same species they shouldnt school so they shouldnt pick off the weak fish in the school right?

As with the damsels from what youre saying it seems better to stick with the Pomacentrus, and from what I'm reading to avoid the Dascyllus at all costs.
What about the other Genus of damsels? like Paraglyphidodon, or how you said some in the same genus as the yellowtails was good

I would rather a few $4 fish not get along vs a few $20 fish
Which is why Im trying to figure out what I can do with these fish we can get for under 5 bucks... But at the same time I dont want to see anyone die lol

[beefORchicken]

domino damsel = spawn of satan
will be aggressive to all other fish
save your money & frustration and get hardy less aggresive fish, like chromis or dwarf angels

[albert_dao]

Sure a damsel is a damsel towards other species of damsel, and chromis are related to damsel but that doesnt say what will happen with 4 species of chromis in 1 tank, kept as singles. Since their not the same species they shouldnt school so they shouldnt pick off the weak fish in the school right?

They'll do the same thing; pick each other off given inadequate confines. Again, Chromis are just damsels with notably reduced aggression. If you have something a little meaner that keeps them on their toes, they'll be less inclined to take each other out. But the point is moot since we're talking about a 10 gallon tank.

As with the damsels from what youre saying it seems better to stick with the Pomacentrus, and from what I'm reading to avoid the Dascyllus at all costs.
What about the other Genus of damsels? like Paraglyphidodon, or how you said some in the same genus as the yellowtails was good

If I didn't list it, it is or will become a monster. No exceptions except perhaps for Fusilier Damsels, genus Lepidozygus, but they are hard to find and require far more space than most people have available.

I would rather a few $4 fish not get along vs a few $20 fish
Which is why Im trying to figure out what I can do with these fish we can get for under 5 bucks... But at the same time I dont want to see anyone die lol

Stick with a Chrysiptera species and maybe a Chromis. At the end of the day, a 10 gallon is probably going to leave you with one or the other.

Edit: The other thing to keep in mind is variable personality...

[Smittyburger]

Get an Azure Damsel. They are colorful, but don't share the aggressive traits of their other Damsel cousins. I have one, and he is always been a model citizen with his tank mates.

I agree with Reef Pilot on the Azure Damsels. No over the top aggression as most report on Damsels in general.

I have had 3 of them for a year now. They have each staked out their own territory and give chase to each other the odd time when their territory is breached.

I have them in with Tangs, Firefish, a mandarin and a 6 Line Wrasse with no real issues other than the odd hit and run.

[Reef Pilot]

Yup, girl at J&L told me the Azures are different, and she was right. Had him for over a year now. Beautiful fish, and totally peaceful.

[Coasting]

They'll do the same thing; pick each other off given inadequate confines. Again, Chromis are just damsels with notably reduced aggression. If you have something a little meaner that keeps them on their toes, they'll be less inclined to take each other out. But the point is moot since we're talking about a 10 gallon tank.

If I didn't list it, it is or will become a monster. No exceptions except perhaps for Fusilier Damsels, genus Lepidozygus, but they are hard to find and require far more space than most people have available.

Stick with a Chrysiptera species and maybe a Chromis. At the end of the day, a 10 gallon is probably going to leave you with one or the other.

Edit: The other thing to keep in mind is variable personality...

Its a 30-40 gallon tank, not a 10, which is why I had 3-4 fish in mind. Mind you because of its odd dimensions its 24" wide so I dont have as much room for territorys. Might try a chromis school in the larger tank when it comes but for now i want to figure out what I can do with the smaller one.

I would like to be able to have 3-4 yellowtails or something similar (azures?) and bright, but thought of the idea of having different species of chromis. Would much rather do the damsels just for colour, but I dont want to be scooping dead fish all the time.

[Starry]

I you can find these, I think they are the prettiest chromises.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1634+1721&pcatid=1721

[tt101]

Actually a mandarin is generally fine with damsels. The danger with mandarins is mostly competition for their food source of pods, unless they've been trained to eat prepared food, which few will survive on long term. Mandarins do their thing & are left alone by most fish, even aggressive ones due to a distasteful coating they have. I've seen my damsel try to nudge my mandarin away from it's perceived territory, but that's about it. My Maroon clownfish has also only ever nudged the mandarin when he lingers a little too close to a clutch of eggs. Never any harm done. BTW, just in case you're not aware, clownfish are included in the damsel species.


i think i heard about the slime coating in the past as well, im going to try a few azures, i don't have too extensive rock work so if it turns out bad then i'll catch them and donate them to flash or something like that lol. i want to add a single or possible a couple varieties of dwarf angel.....such as a bicolor and a flame...and yes i know about how angels will sometimes fight each other but i also heard of many success stories with them...the main idea was to introduce them at the same time. and yes i know that clowns are a variety of damsel but the way i see it is that they are a lot less aggressive, except for the maroons which can be &%$!@# sometimes. thanks for the info. i think i finally found my blue fish that i wanted to add

[Flash]

what size if your tank? do you have zoa's?

[tt101]

what size if your tank? do you have zoa's?

my tank is a 65g, its not huge but i think its a respectable size. and the only zoas in have are these 3 heads that hitchhiked with a couple kenya tree frags. which also worries me because i dont want the angels pickingt at the corals and i hear that bicolors are known to pick more then others

[Flash]

no all angels in general will! well 50/50 I have a coral beauty in my 90 but i have no zoas! lol

[tt101]

no all angels in general will! well 50/50 I have a coral beauty in my 90 but i have no zoas! lol

well......idk then lol. i guess now i need to choose between either the zoas or the angel......this is a hard choice lol. i feel like sometimes there are not enough fish choices for someone with my tank size compared to freshwater. do you know of any good snails that keep algae off glass and or sand

[Flash]

nassarius and mexican turbos!

[fooser]

Long-term Chromis schools tend to deteriorate into a single pair unless, as I mentioned earlier, you have a large tank (200+ gallons), a really big school (20ish+) and something that harasses them. Chromis do not school in the sense that something like a freshwater Cardinal Tetra does. That is, they don't school because they're socially docile. They have a pecking order that is only maintained due to the constant threat of predation. Subtract that from the equation and they just end up behaving as any damsel would.

A good example would be my buddy Fooser. He threw something like 30 Chromis into his 300 gallon tank. There's now two. It looks really stupid. I'll see if he can chime in here for ya.

Edit: If you REALLY want something that schools, grab some Blue Eyed Cardinals. They tend to form pretty stable schools and look AWESOME when they're older.

I must agree with Albert. Not just when I tried to throw in 15 in a 50 gallon, but when I throw in a bunch to the ~350 gallon tank, both occassions resulted similarly with them breaking apart from each other, dwindling off, and the bigger one always does get frist dibs on food. Even now when I have 2 left in a 350gallon tank, the larger one eats, and the other one hovers there waiting without moving until a little bit after, and then darts after the food suddenly. So far in my experiences in this hobby, listening to Albert is 99% if not 100% the right thing to do. He knows his stuff and he has pretty much had experience keeping most type of fish available in this hobby at one time or another in his past (no exaggeration).

But if you are keeping different types of chromis, you may get some different responses varying on fish personality (like how some Flame Angels eat SPS and sometims you get lucky and they don't), but if you get unlucky and get even 1 aggressive chromis out of the 4, he may take it out on your other 3....But it is your tank, what you want to do, and I have also seen some really experienced aquarists keep fish species together that normally cant be kept together. Things like timing and conditioning your fish to certain signs helps. I have seen a guy with a 75 gallon keep achilles, lineatus and sohal tangs, all introduced at different times, and not have a problem. He did this by conditioning his fish to not be afraid of a fish trap, when he feeds them he will catch 1 fish and quarantine him out of the display, and rotate this procedure 1 at a time to all fish, so none of them get too dominant, and before adding in a new fish, will take out the most dominant one and put in the new one. The other fish dont bother the new one because none of them care, and the one that woudl care is gone,a nd when that one comes back in, they are not as aggressive... sounds weird, but works.

[tt101]

nassarius and mexican turbos!

thanks i will have to look into that, i just dont want nothing that will infest the tank and or lay eggs over everything

[Flash]

all snails lay eggs!! my mexicans lay eggs and my wrasses eat the babies.. ahh the cycle of life!!!

[tt101]

all snails lay eggs!! my mexicans lay eggs and my wrasses eat the babies.. ahh the cycle of life!!!

lol is it really unnattractive?

[SkunkClown]

We have never had any problems with our 4 yellow tails in a 200g tank. Probably due to the tank size, large amount of live rock and maybe they are too focused on each other to bug anyone else? I have notice that they are quite territorial however and could see issues in small tanks. I also really like damsels! I wouldn't put anymore in our tank though.

[tt101]

i bought 3 azure damsels about a month ago and everything is still fine till now.....at least it might be. the smallest one died a week ago but i seen no body damage and he always liked to hide behind the power head for no reason so i guess it could be random death. the other 2 are beautiful model citizens lol

[mike31154]

If you're still looking at adding an angelfish, you might be ok with a Singapore (vermiculated) angelfish. Perhaps not as showy as some of the other dwarf angels, but also less prone to coral eating. I've had a Singapore now for over 3 years with zoas, LPS, Kenya Tree & several SPS frags & he hasn't picked on anything. No guarantees, but mine's been cool other than getting into the odd fracas with my Maroon clownfish female when she decided to put down a clutch of eggs too close to the angel's sleeping quarters.