SA 175w bulbs...

[Quinn]

I thought there was a thread on this but I can't find it... for those of you using the SA 175w "10,000k" bulbs, what colour are they? Are they closer to 6,500k, true 10,000k, or 14,000k?

[UnderWorldAquatics]

if you run them on a proper electronic pulse start ballast that they are designed to run on they are a nice crisp white with a slight blue tint.
if you run them on a non electronic, non pulse start ballast they may not run at the right colour tempeture, or it may not fire at all, same as various other bulbs in this industry...

[Quinn]

Any experience with them running on Hamilton ballasts (Hamilton bell pendant specifically)?

[UnderWorldAquatics]

no I havent run them on that setup personally, sorry

[Quinn]

So on a proper ballast, are they bluer than Ushios?

[reefer_11]

So basically you are saying if we run it off of your ballast it works fine.. anything but and they don't.. And most of the people out there run standard ballasts.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Quinn]

It seems to me that a bulb not firing on a Hamilton ballast would indicate a problem with the bulb, not the ballast... something like someone coming up with a new OS and complaining, saying that the computer hardware doesn't work with the OS (I've heard this complaint from Linux users in the past, "stupid video card, why doesn't it work with Redhat" - hardly a problem with the video card). :smile:

[UnderWorldAquatics]

yes if you run the sunaquatics bulbs on the sun aquatics ballasts the bulbs work great, they also work great on any other electronic pulse start ballast as do other bulbs in the industry, I am aware that alot of people have been running cheaper non electronic, non pulse start ballasts. Eroupean style metal halide bulbs are designed to be run on a pulse start ballast, some run them on other ballasts with good success, some have problems, hardly the fault of the bulb. Bulbs that have burnt yellow for a customer and were sent back to us have been fired on a "proper" ballast, and the bulb works perfect. Its kind of like buying a new car that runs on a certain type of oil, if you use the wrong kind of oil you end up with a broken down car. In my opinion, the sunaquatics 10K appears to be more white blue than the ushio, just by a hair.

[Quinn]

Sounds good. So has anyone run one of these bulbs on a Hamilton ballast?

[StirCrazy]

if you run them on a proper electronic pulse start ballast that they are designed to run on they are a nice crisp white with a slight blue tint....

wo there big guy, there was no mention ever of them being designed to run on a electronic ballast. it was said that they were designed to run on normal ballast as well as pulse start. in other words to north american specs.

from what I have seen on the board and other boards the 175 has been a very dissapointing bulb even for its price. i am sure there are lots of sussess stories so befor you get your nickers up this is just what I have been reading.. you always seam to hear about the bad more than the good.

Steve

[Bob I]

[quote=UnderWorldAquatics]if you run them on a proper electronic pulse start ballast that they are designed to run on they are a nice crisp white with a slight blue tint....

whoa there big guy, there was no mention ever of them being designed to run on a electronic ballast. it was said that they were designed to run on normal ballast as well as pulse start. in other words to north american specs.

That is exactly the way I recall it. When the bulbs were first promoted it was advertised that they would run on Any ballast. I certainly found that not to be true. Now it is being said that only electronic pulse start ballasts are Proper. Also last I looked at my atlas, China was not in Europe. Here's a nice quote. Unfortunately I can't remember who first said it.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive :rolleyes:

[Aquattro]

Kyle, can you please offer a list of ballasts that will NOT work with these bulbs? I know several people tha thave bought these as replacement bulbs for their PFO system, and they were not aware of this new ballast requirement. Many people have standard ballasts for their 175w systems, and if these bulbs don't work, you need to tell us that.

[props]

hey kyle will a Hamilton M57 175 watt ballast run them at all?
i've tried Ushio on the ballast and it wont start at all

[Aquattro]

hey kyle will a Hamilton M57 175 watt ballast run them at all?
i've tried Ushio on the ballast and it wont start at all

He's already stated that a M57 is not the proper ballast. Seems you need a pulse start or E-ballast. M57 is the same ballast in the PFO cases.

[ree-fready]

I specificly asked venki if his bulbs would run on m 58 and m59 ballasts for 250 and 4oow and the answer was they`ll work fine. They ran fairly white for a while, about 300 hrs. then they went yellow. :sad: :mad:

[Aquattro]

Darin, how did SA handle that? Refund? Replacement?

[ree-fready]

I never went back on them, just thought I learned a lesson.

[StirCrazy]

Darin, how did SA handle that? Refund? Replacement?

I wish SA had a satisfaction guarantee.. I would have sent all 6 bulbs back. I am still going to do the PAR readings.. I am not expecting much though..

Steve

[Aquattro]

I'm lucky! I got to test the 400w 20k for free. I just gave them back when I was done. Fairly bright on the Son Agro, but too blue. On the M59, they were slightly more intense than my actinics.

[StirCrazy]

Kyle this is a direct quote from Venkiw

"They have been tested on TAR and HQI ballast and they work fine."

another thing I noticed is that the bulbs were available for sale long be for the 175watt electronic ballasts were, if they were designed to run on a pulse start electronic ballast (are you sure you didn't mean to just say "electronic ballast") then why would you not sell the bulb first.

but I see the point by saying they need a electronic ballast you will increase your product sales even though electronic ballast will burn the bulbs with less PAR (unless you now are going to tell me the electronic ballasts you are selling have been specially redesigned to put out full power and not the same design as every other energy saving electronic ballast.

Steve

[ree-fready]

It`s too bad but I think they`ll have a hard time selling their bulbs and not sure about the ballasts. Are they even available yet? Not that I`d even think about it.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Ok, I hope I can address some of your concerns... I wasnt representing SunAquatics products since they entered the market, I have only recently been distributing their products, I have no controll over previous dealings.

To answer some questions and concerns, I never said the bulbs were from Europe, I said they were European "Style" bulbs, as opposed to Americian style bulbs, and yes they are manufactured overseas. My understanding of the operation of the bulbs is as follows...
The SunAquatics bulbs are best run on an electronic pulse start ballast the same as other bulbs in this industry, quality non-electronic pulse start ballasts also seem to fire the bulbs well. They will run on many other types of ballast, but I can not say that they will for sure as they are not the reccomended style of ballast for said bulbs. To give an example, you could have 10 non-electronic, non-pulse start ballasts of the same brand lined up, and upon trying to fire a SunAquatics bulb on said ballasts, you could have mixed results. 4 of the said ballasts may fire the bulb great, and 6 might not fire the bulb so great, there seems to be variance among ballasts of the same type... You can take a SunAquatics bulb that fired up yellow on a regular ballasts, and when you fire that same bulb on an electronic pulse start, or other quality pulse start ballast, the bulb fires perfectly fine. It is my recomendation to only use a SunAquatics bulb on a minimum of a pulse start ballast, or an electronic pulse start ballast, this is the same recomendation I give to all the stores and wholesalers that we distribute the SunAquatics products to. Im sorry if you have had a bad experience with a compatibility problem in the past.
Regards: Kyle

[Bob I]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but when the bulbs were first distributed by Venki they were $42.00. He announced they would soon be distributed by J&L, and there would probably be a modest increase in price of around 10 or 15 percent. I notice now on J&L's website that the bulbs now sell for $74.95. That is closer to a 75% increase. At that price it is hardly worth trying. When I need a new bulb I will get one of known quality. :rolleyes:

[Quinn]

Kyle, if I buy an SA bulb now and find it doesn't work on a Hamilton ballast, will I be able to get my money back?

[venkiw]

The problems associated with the 175 watts 10k is as follows:

The 175 watts 10K bulb did not produce satisfactory results on some TAR ballast, while they worked fine on any good brand name TAR ballast. The only ballast we are aware of that that is may not work on is the britepro ballast, which I beleive is an odd ball ballast. As far as other reports we have not found what ballast (could be no name ballasts), in majority of the cases the the returned 175 watts 10k was sold to other users with TAR ballast and was conformed to be working fine.

Steve,

You don't have to "wish" we always have a satisfaction gaurantee. If you are not happy please return the bulbs for a refund.

Ree-fready,

Please do not give up on us, please return the bulb for a refund. Can you please tell us what ballast you were running it on. As the 250 watts 10k is still a remote issue. With over 4000 bulbs sold in the last 6 months, the satisfaction has been well over 99%, with the sheer volume there is always someone who might have had a problem.

Any bulb in the market today, there is always mixed responses to a product especially MH bulbs. While some swear by thier performance others are less impressed. This is the case with existing or new prodcuts in the market.

For anyone that had issues with the product (purchased directly from me) please get in touch with me, I stand behind my products.

As for my pricing earlier I did make it clear that they were distributor price, I didn't find any other way of marketing a new product with my limited marketing network.

For anyone using a 10K or lower bulb, a switch to 20K is quiet a surprise. It takes time to get accustomed to such a drastic change in color.

Yours Truly,

Venki Worathur

[venkiw]

Teevee,

I can send you a bulb for you to try. If you are happy you can pay me, else just return the bulb.

Venki

[LostMind]

Wow! VenkiW, I like the new attitude. Keep it up!

[StirCrazy]

venkiw, thanks for posting to clear this up and making your stance knowen, I am going to try taking PAR readings this weekend on all 3 flavors of the bulbs :mrgreen:

Visual appeal is a big part of the lighting business and it is hard to please everyone. as for returning the bulbs I don't thik I could return any in good concence at this point as I have about 300 hours on the 10K and the 20K and about 600 on the 14K.

I did have a question sence you are here and maybe you can clear up.. why are the 14K bulbs so blue? I was understanding youi were trying to get the AB look out of the 14K.

Steve

[venkiw]

Steve,

The 14k rating needs clarification, I agree. The 13K we manufactured would have been close to the AB, but the CRI came in at 75%, which appeared to be off scale and hence we decided to go with the 14K (actual 16400K), which would explain the bluer look.

I have now realised that the CRI may not be a proper index to judge a bulb by. Now it may not be possible for us to have a 13K and 14K bulb, so the 13k was canned. May be ressurrected in the future.

As for the comparison to AB 10K DE. Joseph Venuti who is the president of MACNA, tried our bulb 10K DE side by side an AB and was so impressed with the performance called me persoanlly and had a long converstation. He also made special offers for us to have a stall at MACNA (but I couldn't make it), and has refered us to his contacts in the Industry.

You have hit the nail on the head, color has become such a personal preference that it is difficult to judge who will ike what.

The 14K was actually launched to mimic a PFO 13K bulb in appearance, which I personally liked.

As for returning the bulb, you are welcome to. But if you are concerned about the usage, it will be sold soon if you just posted here on this forum. JUst a thought.

Cheers and happy reefing.

Venki

PS:- I use my 20K on my tank and absolutely love it. The coralline growth in a new tank under 2 months is quiet amazing.

[StirCrazy]

Steve,

PS:- I use my 20K on my tank and absolutely love it. The coralline growth in a new tank under 2 months is quiet amazing.

I do like the look of the 20K but I find it very dim.. this is why I want to get these PAR tests out of the way so I can better make up my mind.

the 14K is nice but side by side with a radium it is hard to tell them apart.

as to the ratings, if it tested out at 16400k, why didn't you label it as a 16K instead of 14?

Steve

[ree-fready]

Venki, the ballasts i`m running are sylvania metalarc m58 and 59 they are about 2 years and 9 months old. I bought the 14k`s from j&l a few months ago and i find there is not much intensity on the 400 or the 250. the colour is quite blue which i don`t mind but not a whole lot of difference from the vho`s. any suggestions would be great.