pumps (for beckett)... pressure rated vs non, head pressure?

[smokinreefer]

hey folks,

i am planning on using a beckett skimmer and am looking at my options for pumps to drive it...

now, i have heard that a pressure rated pump is the way to go with becketts, but am kind of at a loss...

is gallons per hour/ head pressure values not the same regardless if it came from a pressure rated pump or not?

for example, i will use the T3 and T4 (because i am considering these for their qiuetness)
the T3 is pressure rated and has 800gph @ 3'
the T4 is not pressure rated and is 1225gph @ 3'
my question is, if i had a 3rd pump that was not pressure rated and it also could give 800gph @ 3', would it be performing equally to the T3, or is there a difference because it is pressure rated?

while were on topic, what pumps are you guys using for you beckett skimmers? opinions? i do want to have my skimmer performing to it fullest potential, but i do have a budget as well! also, quietness is a factor too!

here is just a quick run down of some pumps... its kinda hard to compare as the values i have are all at different head pressure, but it gives you an idea of what the pump can do. (if anyone has values for these pumps, or any other alternatives at corresponding head pressures, pls let me know)
t4
$259
149w
1225 gph@ 3'

t3
$259
149w
800 gph@ 3'

mag18
$209.95
145w
1390 gph@ 4'

mak4
$198.50
110w
1000 gph@ 5'

though i am leaning towards a t4, the mag18 does look very enticing... best bang for my buck?? it looks like i'd get a couple hundred more gph out of it over the t4. the mag may be pretty qiuet submerged, but the t4 is practically silent.

ive been thinking about this skimmer stuff, changing my lighting, downgrade tank, upgrade tank :eek:, kalk reactor....getting a house, getting a car...my head is about to explode.someone please help me out!!!
sorry just had to vent.

just curious, anyone thinking of buying a 180 within the next year or so? :lol: it less than a year old.

[Jack]

Basically you need 1000gph to fire the beckett optimally. The backpressure from the beckett and misc skimmer plumbing causes head loss. Pressure rated pumps are better at firing the beckett because they stay near the 1000gph mark even when pushing through the beckett and plumbing. If you use a non pressure rated pump you need to go to something with a lot of flow so even after it's all said and done you are still around the 1000gph mark to fire the beckett.

My opinions on the pumps you listed:

So T3 isn't near 1000gph.. so I woulnd't bother. Especially since the price is high and the company no longer exsists.

Similiar opinion as with the T3. Even though with the T4 being 1200gph it is not pressure rated and you would not get maximum foam production from your beckett.

Mag 18, good choice. It's quiet and will fire the beckett nicley. I have run this pump/skimmer combo myself. Requires no sump drilling and can be run in-sump.

Mak 4 is the best pump really, unless you want to pump out the real bucks and buy and Iwaki. Mak is a cheap copy of Iwaki pumps and are pressure rated. Something like 1140gph at 4' head. Fires the beckett simmilarly to the Mag 18 but with finer bubbles because it's pressure rated and has a little more umpf to it. Although needs to be run external and is has a hum from the cooling fan. The noise is barable but it's there.


Well Shao, if that doesn't make sense don't blame me. It's 2:30 am and I just got back from Victoria. :lol:

[StirCrazy]

OK the Becket is a weird monster that have caused a lot of misconceptions, for it to preform properly you need a minimum of 300 gph from a pressure rated pump by its book. this will be fine for a pond but it is iffy for our purposes.

what I will recommend is a pressure rated pump all the way and forget about mag drives period.

the MAK4 does a totally awesome job of driving beckets, so much in fact that I am building a dual becket skimmer and I am going to see how it will drive two beckets.

I used to have a mag12 driving my skimmer and it was total crap compared to the MAK4. the reason, the mag drive is not pressure rated so any resistance it encounters lowers its output, I am not going to do the formula here but I can say the flow drop in a non pressure rated pump through a Becket is more than 50%. where a pressure rated pump would be way less.

also when you look at cost, a MAK4 is 200.00 and a mag 18 is more.

Steve

[Doug]

Mak4 for me also.

I found to drive my becketts the same as the Mak4, I needed to use a Mag24 which is a higher wattage pump. It did drive it about the same as the Mak4 though.

[mediaone]

My Opinion and reasoning:

- Use a PRESSURE RATED PUMP for the reasons mentioned by Jack above. You don't want the pump you are using to lose a significant amount of flow over what it is rated for, especially when you need all the force you can get (1000 gph min at the Beckett) to draw in air.

- I have run every pump listed above on Beckett skimmers, nothing touches the quality or performance of the IWAKI. MAK is a great all around pump that doesn't cost too much but gets the job done. Both of these pumps are external fan cooled and can be fairly loud! Mag's and Velocity do introduce more heat than the other options.

If you buy a non pressure rated pump, you essentially have to purchase a pump with an extremely high flow rate... such as a MAG 18 or 24... because you now know that it is going to lose a significant amount of flow while running the Beckett due to the fact that its not pressure rated.

[Aquattro]

Shao, as a strong fan of MAG pumps, I've always run mine on a MAG 18. I just swapped it out for a MAK 4 this morning, and I have to say, it makes a hell of a difference. I can only open my air about 1/2 way now, where I used to open it all the way. The size of the bubbles are much finer. I would now have to recommend a MAK 4 (or greater) for Beckett skimmers.

[StirCrazy]

Shao, as a strong fan of MAG pumps, I've always run mine on a MAG 18. I just swapped it out for a MAK 4 this morning, and I have to say, it makes a hell of a difference. I can only open my air about 1/2 way now, where I used to open it all the way. The size of the bubbles are much finer. I would now have to recommend a MAK 4 (or greater) for Beckett skimmers.

its about time :mrgreen: do you find your skimmer is pulling out more junk now?

I guess I am going to show you how to power clean your skimmer now.. works great :mrgreen:

Steve

[smokinreefer]

thanks for all the input guys...
this is all still in the planning stages for me, cuz as i mentioned my tank downgrade/upgrade is still up in the air, and lighting change, skimmer change, its all driving me nuts!

but at least now i have an idea as to how these becketts work and whats needed to run them!

so it looks like i'll have to sacrifice a little noise and go with a Mak4. now what about the Iwaki's? i understand they are a higher quality pump, but are they qiueter than the Mak4? cuz the price is pretty much double!

thanks again.

[StirCrazy]

so it looks like i'll have to sacrifice a little noise and go with a Mak4. now what about the Iwaki's? i understand they are a higher quality pump, but are they qiueter than the Mak4? cuz the price is pretty much double!

thanks again.

the mak4 is actualy pritty quiet for what it is.. just don't mount them in a echo chamber like I did..

the iwaki is about the same noise level just twice the price.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Shao, I don't find mine loud at all. I have some vibration in the plumbing to work out, and the new position of the air valve causes more hissing than before, but the pump is much quieter than I expected.

[StirCrazy]

, and the new position of the air valve causes more hissing than before,.

you want one of my fancy blue muffler lines?

Steve

[Aquattro]

you want one of my fancy blue muffler lines?


Hell no. I actually tried it (ya, I have one) and it didn't make any difference at all. I need some vinyl tubing and a fliter as a muffler.

[Jack]

Brad, just try some tubing. I run becketts with JG valves and they hiss but if I stick some 1/4" line in them they quiet down for some reason.

[Aquattro]

Brad, just try some tubing. I run becketts with JG valves and they hiss but if I stick some 1/4" line in them they quiet down for some reason.
Jack, I don't use a JG valve. And when I did, the 1/4" line was too restrictive. My skimmer needs more air than that line allows through.

[Delphinus]

Brad, just try some tubing. I run becketts with JG valves and they hiss but if I stick some 1/4" line in them they quiet down for some reason.
Jack, I don't use a JG valve. And when I did, the 1/4" line was too restrictive. My skimmer needs more air than that line allows through.

Hmmm. What I think you need to do is get an air compressor, and then that problem should be nicely solved. The challenge then becomes to quiet down the compressor... Hmm, how about a white noise generator or similar device that could put out an inverse of the sound wave into the living room? Yeah, yeah, that could work! Let me know how it turns out.

[StirCrazy]

Jack, I don't use a JG valve. And when I did, the 1/4" line was too restrictive. My skimmer needs more air than that line allows through.

maybe now that you can't handle as much air you could use a JG 1/4" valve.

Steve

[Aquattro]

maybe now that you can't handle as much air you could use a JG 1/4" valve.
Steve

Maybe, but I think I gave away my JG valve.

[StirCrazy]

i have a few.

Steve

[Aquattro]

i have a few.

Steve

OK, I try one. Remember though that my new skimmer will need a lot more air, so not sure it will work for it. On this one, it should be fine.

[Skimmerking]

Man you know you are bored, when you start bringing up the past threads But a good thread.. As I sit here on my bed after getting out my staples on my back I started to think about the talk that Me and Doug had today in reference to skimmers.

ANd I have a blueline 1100 rated for 1105 GPH not the same as the Mak 4 running at 1195 GPH. time to do the swap and may be sticking another beckett on the skimmer of mine will this work on one singel pump..


mike good thread by the way..