Cheap, Good Quality Calcium Chloride

[Beverly]

Randy at RC has just completed a article comparing Dow Flake Calcium Chloride 77-80% and several commercial reef products:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/chem.htm

The 12 page thread on the subject is here:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318191&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Locally, it is available throught Univar Canada under a slightly different name, Calcium Chloride 77%. Here is their MSDS page on the product:

http://msds.univarcanada.com/wercswv/wercswv.asp?A=putPDF%00&RID=F%5FPDF%5C%27EN%27%5C%27RENS%27%5C%27LA2353%27 %5C%27MTR%27%5C%27ANSI%27%5C%7Bts+%272003%2D02%2D2 1+00%3A00%3A00%27%7D

This product is $17 per 20kg, though I don't know if shipping charges are included. Even if there are extra shipping charges, who cares? The product is useful and really freaking cheap!

I would like to order a bag for myself and am wondering who else out there would like to do the same. There is one problem in ordering the product. Univar will not sell to individuals, only to companies. Is there someone in Edmonton who has a company who could supply a purchase order and payment for our order?

BTW, I have contact numbers in both Calgary and Edmonton. There must also be an office in Vancouver.

Let's get some of this stuff for even happier and cheaper reefing :cool:

[props]

wow great article
i'm in
=o)

[Beverly]

Jesse,

I can't believe that you and I are the only ones interested. Maybe everybody else has money to burn on their reefs :confused:

[Quinn]

Two words: calcium reactor.

[Canadian Man]

Two words: calcium reactor.

2nd that! Much less work. Set it and forget it.

[Aquattro]

Jesse,

I can't believe that you and I are the only ones interested. Maybe everybody else has money to burn on their reefs :confused:

Calcium chloride is generally for a one time correction, not regular use. I bought a small jar once 2 years ago and still have some left.

[Namscam]

From the analysis it looks like the calcium is just as pure as the Kent 2 part calcium mixture and its suggesting that you could use it in place of the additives so it doesnt really mean its a one time measure.
Also I m interested in orderin some too.

[ron101]

Count me in as well.

[Namscam]

I think they have a Univar in Richmond so we can just get it there

[whaase]

Just print any company name on a buisness card (from your computer) and go into the company and say you want to set up a cash account. Should be able to order then.

Walter

[Aquattro]

so it doesnt really mean its a one time measure.
.

Sorry, wrong. The problem with using CaCl as a supplement on aregular basis is the accumulation of Cl ions, not a Ca problem. You end up with too much chloride in th etank, and this is bad. Search thru the chem forum on RC for turbo calcium, snow melt, etc. Really, I didn't just make this up to undermine CaCl sales!!

[EmilyB]

Yes, it's meant to boost your Ca while you are getting Alk in balance as well with buffer. Then you use either two part/kalk/or a reactor from there on in. I doubt I'll ever use up the container I have.

[mediaone]

Listen to Reef_Raf... he is absolutely correct. This is not a simple convenience issue, the real heart of the matter is which method most closely mimics natural process in the ocean. Calcium chloride is mainly used to bring Calcium up RELATIVE to alkalinity. Using a calcium reactor is the ultimate (that we have thus far) method of replenishing calcium and alkalinity.

Cheers!

[Namscam]

thats why you do water changes and you have to check your alk(edited i meant salinity not alk)

[props]

thats why you do water changes and you have to check your alk

then brad has to change water ev'ry 12hours then to replenish all that calcium and alk consumed? :rolleyes:

[Aquattro]

thats why you do water changes and you have to check your alk
why do you always have to argue with known facts? And alk has nothing to do with Cl levels in seawater. Please go argue something else!!

For everyone else, please research the use of CaCl for Ca supplementation. There are better (balanced) solutions available for this type of thing.

[Namscam]

sorry not alk i mean salinity...but for ur information i did do research and a lot of ppl are saying that you might spend more money in changing water than you ll save with from the CaCl but the way i see it is that ur gonna do water change weekly any ways so does it really matter if your checking your salinity daily

[Aquattro]

sorry not alk i mean salinity

You're still going to get an imbalance of chloride. CaCl is good for correcting Ca imbalances, nothing more. There are a ton of articles on proper Ca/alk supplementation available, and how and why to choose the one that is right for each person.

[Namscam]

hey i m not argueing with you that this isnt the best way to do things and that yes ca reactors are the best we have at the moment but not everyone has money growing out of ur you know wut and this is just a cheaper way... yeah in the long run Ca will be cheaper but the cost for it is stil pretty expensive at the moment. plus i wouldnt advise ppl to go and buy the stuff right away...the guy from RC is coming up with a recipe that will make it a lil more balance althought not perfectly in april so i would advise ppl to wait til then to start addin stuff in ur tank..

[Aquattro]

Richie, I am in no way saying a reactor is the way to go, and in fact, for most people it doesn't make sense. You want cheap? Go talk to Shao about some kalk. For $15, I got enough to dose half the pacific ocean! A one time expense in a float valve and a $5 plastic jug, and voila! Instant balanced Ca, alk and bank account! The only technical piece of equipment you need is gravity, and that's free for most people. Don't want the fuss and the heavy jugs? Plenty of balanced 2 part solutions on the market. Buy the big jugs, they're more economical. The unfortunate part of keeping stoney corals in a reef tank is that it costs some money to do it properly. You want them to grow, give them the correct ratio of supplements. If you can't afford the right stuff (in all it's various forms), maybe a FO tank is the way to go.
But hey, it's ur tank, so you do wut you want. :neutral:

[EmilyB]

You should really do paragraphs Brad. :lol:

[Aquattro]

You should really do paragraphs Brad. :lol:

Sorry Deb...

Next time, OK?

:razz:

[StirCrazy]

the guy from RC is coming up with a recipe that will make it a lil more balance althought not perfectly in april so i would advise ppl to wait til then to start addin stuff in ur tank..

this doesn't make sense at all as it has already been proven that the long term use of this will cause elevated Cl levels in your tank and start to poison all your live stock. this is why all the bigger names say ya use it but only once to correct an imbalance then go back to kalk, two part additive ect.

Richie, I am not sure if you understand that or not as you seam to be skirting around the reason here and coming up with excuses, it doesent matter how much more ballanced a guy on RC tries to make it the Cl will still be there. The fact is it is Bad for your tank.. cost and what not is not a issue here only the health of your tank.

Steve

[Lofus]

Before adding CaCl to your tank, I would ask yourself what you are trying to do. If you want to raise Ca+ levels then why not add CaOH?

In the end the OH- will reach equilibrium with H+ and H20 and you will avoid an accumulation of Cl-.

Jim

[chwkreefer]

Do you know how hard it is to get your system back into order after dosing consistently with Calcium Chloride over a long period of time? It's very hard. A number of years ago I got tired of the kalkwasser dosing and I started doing the Calcium Chloride & Buffer thing and everything looked great (corals and tests) for quite awhile.

Then suddenly I couldn't get anything stable, the pH and calcium, magnesium and alk were all screwed up. There was a major ionic imbalance in the tank. I could dump products in forever to try and correct the problem, it wasn't until I did a bunch of large water changes that things were corrected.

Not until I did some major water changes and changed calcium sources did things straighten out. LESSON LEARNED.

I agree with Brad, Calcium Chloride (ie. Turbo Calcium) is a great product for a periodic calcium boost. But for long term calcium management, you have to go with Kalkwasser or 2 part solutions for smaller systems and a calcium reactor for large sps systems. No cheaper way around it.

I am looking forward to reading the guys article on diy 2 part solutions in April, but as long as Calcium Chloride is the calcium component, I won't be adding it to my tank every day.

[Beverly]

Thanks, everyone, for you input on the subject.

I have decided to forget the calcium chloride in favour of dripping kalk.

Cheers,

[reefburnaby]

Hello....

Actually, calcium chloride is used as one of the primary ingredients in the two-part calcium/alk supplement. The other ingredient is sodium bicarbonate.

Yes, adding primarily calcium chloride to your reef tank is a bad thing since you will have excess chloride ions. However, if you add the right amount (aka ionically balanced amount) of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or sodium carbonate (pure unscented washing soda), then you will no only add bicarbonate and carbonate (which is another word for adding alk), but you will be adding sodium to the water. Sodium + chloride = salt. Okay...so now your salinity is going to be affected...a bit. But...this is a small side effect of most 2 - part solutions. So...if you want to add CaCl in the long term, you might want to add an ionically balanced buffer with it too :)

I admit that 2 part solution calcium additions are not perfect, but calcium reactors and kalk mixes aren't perfect either. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

- Victor.

[Veng68]

Try this:

http://www.hawkfish.org/infoctr/homebuffer.htm

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

[Quinn]

Bev if you still want to order it, PM me. You could easily use my dad's company name.

[Beverly]

So...if you want to add CaCl in the long term, you might want to add an ionically balanced buffer with it too :)

Victor,

Good point. Randy is working on a second article on making the two part buffer out of baking soda and washing soda and the Dow Flake. I'm going to wait until I see the article before deciding ... again :rolleyes:

Quinn,

Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on it. Will definitely talk to you about it at the meeting :smile: