We need a sticky on fish transport

[my2rotties]

As many of my friends on the forum know, I had a hard go with things the last few months, which resulted in no choice, but to sell off my beloved fish and shut my tank down. People that know me, also know this was the very last thing I wanted to have do. Before putting the fish on canreef, I went to my personal friends and mentors this forum to see if they wanted them. One moderator knows how bad I was hounding him to take one of my babies...Luckily a couple of my fish were put into new homes before the rest had to go up for sale.

When I put my babies on the forums to offer them up for sale, I had to go through endless private messages and creep their posts to figure out the best homes. Believe me, I am not very popular on the forums on the private side. People don't really appreciate being told they cannot buy my fish for whatever reasons I found. I wanted my fish to have better place then my own tank and I eventually found people in the hobby that fit the criteria... although I was worried, I felt I had made the best choices for them and they would live a happy long life.

On Friday morning, I sat in front of my tank for three hours sobbing, until the first round of them had to go home. I could not even help with them being caught, as these fish trusted me enough to let me pet them and would eat from my hands. I just could not stand to watch it all go down. I had some concerns with how they were transported, but because of who these people were, I felt they knew what they were doing and the fish would fine... Later that day, the rest went home, so I thought.

I contacted one person yesterday only to discover my poor baby died in transport... I was totally beside myself, and know he suffocated on the way to Calgary. I am not saying which fish or who did it, but I felt this person could be trusted in how the transport was done, and this was a tragedy... If he made it to his destination, he would have had an awesome life.

I emailed about the rest of the this morning and found out over half of the others had died in transport as well. Again, I felt these people knew what they were doing, and have been sick to my stomach and bawling my brains out all day over this.

What I am asking from this forum is for there to be a sticky written by members on how to correctly transport fish for both the buyers and the sellers. There should be a check list on what to bring, how many fish should be in a pail (if a pail is used), and the best way to package them.

One thing I can say for sellers is do not always trust how long someone has been in the hobby and who they are... It does not matter one bit. I do blame myself for this, since I should have been a bitch and when I saw how things were not being done, I should have pulled the plug on everything, regardless of how far someone drove to get them. Just because we know someone, how long they have been in the hobby, or if the owned/managed or worked in a fish store, is meaningless when it comes to our beloved pets. My fish paid with their lives for this. I was their voice and I did not speak up for them...

I was not going to say anything, and I am not calling anyone out, or trying to start a peeing match. All I am trying to do is ensure, that my fishes deaths did not happen in vain. I know many people might view fish as just livestock, but my fish were my pride and joy. I grew from little babies and they trusted me enough to swim into my hands and allow me to pet them and take food from... now most of them are dead.

Watching my fish go the other day was one of the worst things I have ever do in my life, aside of putting my sick dogs to sleep when it came time. I now have to live with the fact that they never made it to their new homes and never had a chance. I am completely beside myself right now.

I ask all the members to help make a guide on how to transport fish with the least amount of stress and causalities if you can. My fish were fat, strong healthy and simply amazing... and they died in transport and never had a chance.

I also do not want to be asked which fish, who killed them, and have people say they would have bought the fish and they would be a live right now. I really do not need to hear that crap right now.

Thanks to anyone that can contribute in advance.

Diana

[Oilers]

What a sad sad story! Poor fishes! I wish that everyone care about their fishes or pets the way you do Diana.

[gregzz4]

What a disaster

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41875&highlight=ship+corals

[my2rotties]

I feel this needs to be a sticky where fish are bought and sold and easy to find... it should be there in all honesty. Some people are not looking in the other forums.

[my2rotties]

I see it has been moved...

[jorjef]

Whether I bag for a long trip or a short I always have the bag at least 3/4 air, 1/4 water. Also this may seem like a no brainer but never blow your breath into the bag to fill it. This is my contribution for an advise sticky for people new to the hobby. Sorry to hear about your fish....

[Coralgurl]

Wow Diana, very well said, I know how upset you have been today and this message made me teary! I agree with a sticky on transporting fish regardless of the distance, especially for those buying from other members. I myself have only bought one fish from someone's tank, the rest from the stores, so this is priceless information. Hopefully someone will speak up so something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Hugs!

[my2rotties]

When people that know what they are doing manage to kill 7 out of 11 fish, something needs to be done to prevent this crap. These people knew better... I am going to start ranting soon... time to walk away.

[Aquattro]

These people knew better... I am going to start ranting soon... time to walk away.

I have to believe that if they "knew better", they would not have killed fish that they paid for on purpose. Transporting large fish significant distances is tough, I've managed to kill a couple myself. I didn't know better, it happens.

If you're offering to write up a comprehensive transport article, we'll look at making it a sticky

[FishyFishy!]

I do have one question after reading that awesome write up...

Are the frags ok with being upside down in those styro discs? I assume they can't tell too much difference with no light.. but you never know. I know for sure that if I was upside down I would be ****ed.

[my2rotties]

It made my day a little better to hear "Boris" is doing so well in your tank... yes, all the fish and eels had names:razz:

Wow Diana, very well said, I know how upset you have been today and this message made me teary! I agree with a sticky on transporting fish regardless of the distance, especially for those buying from other members. I myself have only bought one fish from someone's tank, the rest from the stores, so this is priceless information. Hopefully someone will speak up so something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Hugs!

[Casey8]

It is a very very sad story :( I have tears in my eyes while I am reading your story. I understand how you feel because I treat my fish not just as livestock, they are my pets and I love them dearly. It will be a very sad day for me if one day I have to shut down my tank for any reasons. I think they are meant to live with you, and only with you. They would rather die than to live in someone elses tank.
My condolences.

[Leah]

Clearly my memory is far from gone...unfortunately. :sad:

[my2rotties]

I think an article would be good. One person that bought my foot long cowfish transported him in a large picnic cooler with a bubbler... she only transports fish in this fashion and I think all fish should have this. Sadly the rest of my fish did not get this option and they really should have and I should not have allowed them to go.

I have to believe that if they "knew better", they would not have killed fish that they paid for on purpose. Transporting large fish significant distances is tough, I've managed to kill a couple myself. I didn't know better, it happens.

If you're offering to write up a comprehensive transport article, we'll look at making it a sticky

[christyf5]

Hi Diana,

I moved your thread as I felt it would get more views in the reef forum. Once everyone sees it and someone volunteers to write an article, it will get stickied in the proper forum.

Sorry to hear of your fish losses, I was horrified to read your story. I didn't think Bragg Creek was that far from Calgary (as one of your examples) and I suppose with your fish being larger some weren't prepared for the extra O2 requirements. I'd love to write the article myself but don't really feel qualified to do so.

[christyf5]

I think an article would be good. One person that bought my foot long cowfish transported him in a large picnic cooler with a bubbler... she only transports fish in this fashion and I think all fish should have this. Sadly the rest of my fish did not get this option and they really should have and I should not have allowed them to go.

Personally I think with larger fish, a cooler and battery powered air pump are the only way to go. How some of the "show sized" fish make it here from their original collection point is beyond me :eek:

[my2rotties]

I was a little shocked when the people that killed the majority of the fish did not have these things with them... especially for that kind of trip and the size of the fish. I can't do anything to bring back to life now, but I think all people should be educated on what to and not to do... I know what not to do now...

Personally I think with larger fish, a cooler and battery powered air pump are the only way to go. How some of the "show sized" fish make it here from their original collection point is beyond me :eek:

[Coralgurl]

For a newb like me, this isn't something I ever thought about. As there is a lot of trading of livestock between members, I guess it is assumed that people know what they are doing. I've tried to replicate what I've seen at the stores, but have not attempted long distances - just store to home. Myka's article is fantastic and one I will refer to again and again. As Christy stated, maybe there should be something written about larger fish transport. I have zero knowledge so I have nothing to say, but it would be nice if some experienced members could share.

ps "Boris" is happy (he'll keep his name), will post pics as he's out more.

[my2rotties]

My biggest blunder is I never, ever thought I would ever have to shut my tank down in the first place. I figured they would live out their lives in my tank and that was it... sometimes life deals us blows, and we do the best we can...

Since I never thought I would remove them, I never thought I could not trust experienced people in this hobby to not properly transport them.

I wish I had some vodka, but that would a bad thing...

For a newb like me, this isn't something I ever thought about. As there is a lot of trading of livestock between members, I guess it is assumed that people know what they are doing. I've tried to replicate what I've seen at the stores, but have not attempted long distances - just store to home. Myka's article is fantastic and one I will refer to again and again. As Christy stated, maybe there should be something written about larger fish transport. I have zero knowledge so I have nothing to say, but it would be nice if some experienced members could share.

ps "Boris" is happy (he'll keep his name), will post pics as he's out more.

[my2rotties]

With all due respect to this comment, if you buy nine fish and kill five of them, you are doing something terribly wrong. EPIC FAIL!!!

Hopefully members pull together and help me out with this article...

I have to believe that if they "knew better", they would not have killed fish that they paid for on purpose. Transporting large fish significant distances is tough, I've managed to kill a couple myself. I didn't know better, it happens.

If you're offering to write up a comprehensive transport article, we'll look at making it a sticky

[Aquattro]

With all due respect to this comment, if you buy nine fish and kill five of them, you are doing something terribly wrong. EPIC FAIL!!!

Hopefully members pull together and help me out with this article...


Diana, my point is that they obviously didn't know better, or they would not have had the fish die on them.

[my2rotties]

And this is why we need a good long article on how fish should be correctly transported. This was a senseless slaughter, and hopefully my sad story will eventually benefit others. I don't want anyone to ever feel like I do now...

Diana, my point is that they obviously didn't know better, or they would not have had the fish die on them.

[jorjef]

And this is why we need a good long article on how fish should be correctly transported. This was a senseless slaughter, and hopefully my sad story will eventually benefit others. I don't want anyone to ever feel like I do now...

You know I do feel bad for you, but what would you have done differently?, what advise do you have?...Slaughter by definition seems a little strong...no actually if I was the guy that bought the fish I would be insulted..

[my2rotties]

I am not disclosing details on who had the bought the fish. I told Brad I would back off now... If someone killed 5 of 9 of your personal pets, you would say the same thing. They did not even check on them throughout the trip and I was told they were dead when the pails were opened. It was a long trip they went on as well. I was shocked there were no battery operated bgubblers provided for the trip and I was disturbed over that. A friend that bought one of my show fish has him packed in a large cooler (keep in the heat) with a bubbler... that is how it should have been done. I should have never allowed them to leave here.

The guy that bought the fish was told what I thought...

You know I do feel bad for you, but what would you have done differently?, what advise do you have?...Slaughter by definition seems a little strong...no actually if I was the guy that bought the fish I would be insulted..

[my2rotties]

Perhaps slaughter is a little harsh,. I cannot edit it now...

As for being offended? Well, offended is far better then being dead, don't you think?

[tim the toolman]

I'm so sorry to hear this. I was sick to my stomach reading your article. My 2 cents. Everyone should be buying an inverter for the lighter in the car which will easily power one or multiple air stones as well a cooler or styrofoam box is a must to hold a large volume of water and keep the heat in the water. (hot packs don't hurt either if it's gonna be a long haul.) again I'm very sad to hear about the losses.

[christyf5]

I dunno, I'd be a bit taken aback if people showed up at my house ill prepared for the trip. Granted, sloshing water does a lot to aerate itself during transport but if you have an airtight lid well then you're pretty much creating a closed system, IMO.

I don't really think a long article needs to be made up. I've always thought transporting fish was fairly straightforward but then thats just me. I'm a biologist and I tend to think about these things. If I'm buying a fish that is expensive (and someones pet) then I'm damned sure I'm going to make sure I protect my investment and take good care of that animal best I can. I usually buy my fish from stores though and take oxygen if its available even for shorter trips. I try to maintain temperature by keeping it close to me (I even take them upstairs on the ferry to sit in my lap). I think of it like this: think of the things you offer your tank, warmth, water movement and space. Can't you do this while transporting a fish too?


For larger fish, you need more of all of the above (well except the warmth part). You need more water and more air which means something larger than a "big bag" (the weight of the water becomes problematic) and something that aerates the water. Larger fish use more oxygen when stressed so you'd need to provide external oxygen by way of an airstone. For the most part a heater would likely be unneccessary for a shorter trip of less than a few hours as fish can deal with the drop in temperature (to a point of course).

The idea of an inverter as tim the toolman suggested above is also a smart idea. I bought one a couple years ago on sale at crappy tire for like $10 and it will power a small heater and air pump no problem.

[my2rotties]

Thanks for the contribution. I assume they can be bought at any fish store,m right?

I'm so sorry to hear this. I was sick to my stomach reading your article. My 2 cents. Everyone should be buying an inverter for the lighter in the car which will easily power one or multiple air stones as well a cooler or styrofoam box is a must to hold a large volume of water and keep the heat in the water. (hot packs don't hurt either if it's gonna be a long haul.) again I'm very sad to hear about the losses.

[my2rotties]

It is my bad too... however, because these people were whom they were, I thought they knew were doing and I was being an overprotective of the fish... Nothing will bring them back now, but hopefully other fish avoid suffocating in pails.

I dunno, I'd be a bit taken aback if people showed up at my house ill prepared for the trip. Granted, sloshing water does a lot to aerate itself during transport but if you have an airtight lid well then you're pretty much creating a closed system, IMO.

I don't really think a long article needs to be made up. I've always thought transporting fish was fairly straightforward but then thats just me. I'm a biologist and I tend to think about these things. If I'm buying a fish that is expensive (and someones pet) then I'm damned sure I'm going to make sure I protect my investment and take good care of that animal best I can. I usually buy my fish from stores though and take oxygen if its available even for shorter trips. I try to maintain temperature by keeping it close to me (I even take them upstairs on the ferry to sit in my lap). I think of it like this: think of the things you offer your tank, warmth, water movement and space. Can't you do this while transporting a fish too?


For larger fish, you need more of all of the above (well except the warmth part). You need more water and more air which means something larger than a "big bag" (the weight of the water becomes problematic) and something that aerates the water. Larger fish use more oxygen when stressed so you'd need to provide external oxygen by way of an airstone. For the most part a heater would likely be unneccessary for a shorter trip of less than a few hours as fish can deal with the drop in temperature (to a point of course).

The idea of an inverter as tim the toolman suggested above is also a smart idea. I bought one a couple years ago on sale at crappy tire for like $10 and it will power a small heater and air pump no problem.

[tim the toolman]

Like christy said canadian tire for about 15$ and they will run 175w of power. That's enough for a decent little heater and an airstone. This would GREATLY improve the likelihood of survival even on a multi hour journey.

[Magma]

I am not disclosing details on who had the bought the fish. I told Brad I would back off now... If someone killed 5 of 9 of your personal pets, you would say the same thing. They did not even check on them throughout the trip and I was told they were dead when the pails were opened. It was a long trip they went on as well. I was shocked there were no battery operated bgubblers provided for the trip and I was disturbed over that. A friend that bought one of my show fish has him packed in a large cooler (keep in the heat) with a bubbler... that is how it should have been done. I should have never allowed them to leave here.

The guy that bought the fish was told what I thought...

Just curious but where the fish sold to people within the Calgary area? because I have done the trip to Bragg Creek numerous times and from my house in the NW of Calgary all the way into Bragg Creek takes me no more than 45min. I have had fish and corals from Edmonton to Calgary travel in bags with no air stone and been fine thats a few hours min. So how many hours did these fish end up staying in the bag/pail/cooler?

[my2rotties]

My prized fish went to Calgary and died on the way... I don't even want to talk about him.


The other ones went to southern Alberta.

Just curious but where the fish sold to people within the Calgary area? because I have done the trip to Bragg Creek numerous times and from my house in the NW of Calgary all the way into Bragg Creek takes me no more than 45min. I have had fish and corals from Edmonton to Calgary travel in bags with no air stone and been fine thats a few hours min. So how many hours did these fish end up staying in the bag/pail/cooler?

[Mike-fish]

so sorry to hear that. when i move tanks with fish here's how i do it: in a 5g pail about two thirds full of water drawn off right at the start of the move (less junk in the water that way). in the lid of the pail (has the plug for a spout) i cut a 1/4" hole so the air line off my big bubbler will go through leaving a small gap for air to get out. the air pump (running even before the fish are all caught) is 120v so it gets connected to a inverter in the car right away. and as soon as fish are loaded make a b-line for the destination. latest move from Calgary took about 6 hours start to finish. i have moved our 175g 3 times and with the air the fish do way better. each move has lasted about 10 hours. i haven't ever lost a fish in transit or within a few days after.

[fishytime]

perhaps you could go into a little more detail about the whole fish catching process.....something seems amiss here....Ive done the 3 hour trip to Edmonton several times with fish in bags with no heat or aeration and never suffered any losses....was the rock removed?....was the sandbed disturbed?

[jorjef]

Nine fish to one destination in pails...Were they salt pails or ice cream buckets? was there more than one fish per pail? I'm guessing they were transported inside a heated vehicle? and not the back of a half ton! I know these questions seem dumb but like Fishytime is saying there is more to this than the typical transporting of fish.

[subman]

Seems odd to me as well I bought fish and traveled over 3 hrs more than once with them in a pail or bagged never lost one.

[my2rotties]

perhaps you could go into a little more detail about the whole fish catching process.....something seems amiss here....Ive done the 3 hour trip to Edmonton several times with fish in bags with no heat or aeration and never suffered any losses....was the rock removed?....was the sandbed disturbed?

Rock was removed five hours earlier, the fish were salt pails. I had 400 gallons of water in the system on top of the 265g display tank. Also I did not have that much live rock in the display to begin with, as it was all in the sump and holding tanks in the basement. I wanted the fish to have ample swimming room.

[my2rotties]

It's not my fault, the fish were freaking amazing and healthy. A few canreefers have seen them and could not believe the condition they were in and how fabulous they were.

Seems odd to me as well I bought fish and traveled over 3 hrs more than once with them in a pail or bagged never lost one.

[Mike-fish]

perhaps you could go into a little more detail about the whole fish catching process.....something seems amiss here....Ive done the 3 hour trip to Edmonton several times with fish in bags with no heat or aeration and never suffered any losses....was the rock removed?....was the sandbed disturbed?
the move from calgary was as follows:
begin pump out (about 1/3)
remove rock (keeping a watchful eye for any hiding fish (experience :redface: that one was a near miss on the 175g)
rock is placed in buckets with enough water to keep the fully submersed
more water removed as needed untill there is about 2" more depth than the tallest fish(makes capture easier)
catch fish snails crabs and any others (snails and crabs allways ride with the rock)
get air going and seal up for transit.
finish pump out
sand was left in on this move (34g tank plus sand = not allot of weight)
disconnect all systems from tank
load every thing up and hit the highway ( try to pick a smooth route).
upon arival at destination.
hook everything back up
add some water ( pour onto something to avoid a sand storm)
start adding rock keep adding water as rock is removed from pails.
once all rock is added fire up pumps (if possible)
add fish.
and grab a cold one :biggrin:.


the 175g
no road transit needed :smile:
weighs allot ( man power is a must ) use your brains guys not your muscles !!!!!!!!!
same as above just sand has to be taken out ( don't fill sand pails with water )(don't fill more than about half full gets very heavy very fast).
add sand before water gets added (less of a sand storm)
always check that bulkheads have sealed properly (always remove them before you move the tank )
bring the tank on line and add fish and others.

if moving large fish its best if they get their own pail just tee them an airline.
large brute pails work great as holding tanks for "extra " water i like to have a fresh batch of water ready to go (some seems to go missing every time)

[subman]

It's not my fault, the fish were freaking amazing and healthy. A few canreefers have seen them and could not believe the condition they were in and how fabulous they were.

I didn't at all mean to insinuate that. I'm sorry if it came across that way, I know you took amazing care and loved your fish to the extreme. I was just stating my experience's traveling with fish. Again I'm very sorry I truly meant no offence

[Mike-fish]

Nine fish to one destination in pails...Were they salt pails or ice cream buckets? was there more than one fish per pail? I'm guessing they were transported inside a heated vehicle? and not the back of a half ton! I know these questions seem dumb but like Fishytime is saying there is more to this than the typical transporting of fish.
i think this one is directed to me. use an appropriate number of pails. these where 5 gallon pails from home depot i have 100 of them. multiple fish to the pail unless large or aggressive / active. yes they where in a heated van riding shotgun at that ( kept van a little warmer than i like to)

[my2rotties]

The way you wrote this makes it sound like you bought my fish and you were not the guy.

i think this one is directed to me. use an appropriate number of pails. these where 5 gallon pails from home depot i have 100 of them. multiple fish to the pail unless large or aggressive / active. yes they where in a heated van riding shotgun at that ( kept van a little warmer than i like to)

[my2rotties]

It's okay, I am just beyond upset over this and my nerves are rather raw and exposed. It is a very hard thing to have to live with.

I didn't at all mean to insinuate that. I'm sorry if it came across that way, I know you took amazing care and loved your fish to the extreme. I was just stating my experience's traveling with fish. Again I'm very sorry I truly meant no offence

[jorjef]

The way you wrote this makes it sound like you bought my fish and you were not the guy.

And no my comment wasn't directed towards him either..

[Mike-fish]

now you guys have me all confused if i answered the wrong person sorry about that. quotes help avoid this

[my2rotties]

All I can say is the fish were in exceptional health when they left my house... The people caught them and transported them... what do you want from me? I know damned well they would all still be alive and well if they were still here.

And no my comment wasn't directed towards him either..

[jorjef]

now you guys have me all confused if i answered the wrong person sorry about that. quotes help avoid this

Who's on second? I'm out of this gong show...

[my2rotties]

So how about getting back on topic and contributing to how to correctly transport fish?

[Leah]

All I can say is the fish were in exceptional health when they left my house... The people caught them and transported them... what do you want from me? I know damned well they would all still be alive and well if they were still here.

Sorry but I can't believe you would post this.... for any other reason but to call the guy out on it. :sad:

And you had a responsibility in it too... you let them go. :cry:

[Doc_Polit]

:doh:

With all due respect, the OP has made her point. What transpired is certainly tragic to any and all who appreciate our hobby, or any others that involve beloved pets.

Canreef staffers have chimed in and agreed that a sticky would be considered based on further input.

Mods....really? How many more pages does this need to continue? It is becoming redundant and tiring.

I am truly sorry for this loss of life but enough is enough.

[my2rotties]

Are you completely retarded?

Sorry but I can't believe you would post this.... for any other reason but to call the guy out on it. :sad:

And you had a responsibility in it too... you let them go. :cry:

[my2rotties]

Yes, lets do a sticky on how to transport fish please. Of course everything has to turn into a gong show, and I did not want the fish to die in vain... Obviously people do not know how to correctly transport fish... lets post on what works and the success rate...

:doh:

With all due respect, the OP has made her point. What transpired is certainly tragic to any and all who appreciate our hobby, or any others that involve beloved pets.

Canreef staffers have chimed in and agreed that a sticky would be considered based on further input.

Mods....really? How many more pages does this need to continue? It is becoming redundant and tiring.

I am truly sorry for this loss of life but enough is enough.

[subman]

Are you completely retarded?

That crosses the line. Terrible

[fishytime]

so you honestly think that this was all to do with how the fish were transported and it had nothing at all to do with the water being fouled by moving all the rock before the transport water was removed???

[jorjef]

Are you completely retarded?

No she is right, sorry but you were no more informed or educated than the guy that "slaughtered" the fish...

Yes, lets do a sticky on how to transport fish please. Of course everything has to turn into a gong show, and I did not want the fish to die in vain... Obviously people do not know how to correctly transport fish... lets post on what works and the success rate...

It's really a simple process and people have posted correct and successful ways of transporting fish. People ask you question while you give vague answers..might as well close this thread like others say it;s going no where.

[Leah]

Diana,

You were given good advice on here once before and you did not listen then...so this is of no surprise to me or anyone else that may remember you.

Leah

[my2rotties]

You know what? I am going to walk away now, because I have kept my mouth shut, and will not do so for much longer...

Have a good night.

[reefwars]

so you honestly think that this was all to do with how the fish were transported and it had nothing at all to do with the water being fouled by moving all the rock before the transport water was removed???

would say i agree there, not a good thing to do:(