Electrical Advice

[Parker]

Sometime in the last week another ballast fried, that's three PFO and one Galaxy in the last two years. Staring to become more than simple bad luck. I have 2ea 20amp circuits to the tank then into 3ea Apex power strips. I've put a meter and test lamps on the circuits and everything seems to be fine, correct voltage, wired correctly etc. All the ballasts are protected from water, they aren't getting splashed on etc.

Any ideas?

[sphelps]

Heat? Are the confined in a cabinet or anything at all?

[Parker]

They are inside the stand but not in a confined space. There's a lot of air around them. They shouldn't be getting too hot.

[The Grizz]

If they are in a cabinet and you are just counting on the ambient air to cool them without a fan blowing directly on them, then that's just wishful thinking. All MH ballasts get VERY hot, at least mine did. I had them in my cabinet mounted to one of the side doors and they would keep shutting down until I opened the door and put a small fan on them to cool them down.

[sphelps]

I'd say add a fan to exchange the air the cabinet and promote better cooling of the ballasts. If the air in the cabinet isn't exchanged it will heat up from the ballasts and reduce the temperature difference causing the ballasts to run hotter. This will happen even if there is lots of space in the cabinet, it'll just take longer to heat up. There's not much else I can think off that cause premature failure although I would have thought the electronic ballasts would be less of an issue...

[Parker]

I'll give that a shot.

My sump has been off-line for a couple of months now so my temp probe from my Apex has been out of the water. According to my graphs the inside the stand doesn't seem to be going above 68F / 20C though

[reef-keeper]

I know from experience that if the connections are not tight enough or if they are to tight they will draw more amperage and cause premature failure. At least that is what they say at work. Also we have had six Galaxy ballets fail right out of the box. They are running 250 watt 6500K MH bulbs.

[Parker]

Lost two more Galaxy ballasts in the last month or so. Time to make a decision about this damn tank.

[reefwars]

Lost two more Galaxy ballasts in the last month or so. Time to make a decision about this damn tank.


go led:twised::twised::twised::twised:

[gregzz4]

Lost two more Galaxy ballasts in the last month or so. Time to make a decision about this damn tank.
Are these recent failures replacement ballasts, or more old units failing ?

Have you tried testing the supply voltage during start-up ? A voltage drop/low start-up voltage will fry a ballast over time

Have you opened any units to determine what is failing ? Capacitor/windings

Maybe a dumb question but, are you matching the recommended bulb types ?

[makana]

How is the power in your neighbourhood? Any recent power outages or wind storms?

I'm not sure how sensitive MH ballasts are to power fluctuations but I have seen dirty power issues cause all sorts of problems. It is a very difficult thing to track down as well. There is a device called a voltage recorder than is basically tracks the voltage over a 24 hour period to look for fluctuations/surges. Not something most people have laying around.

I am told surge protectors to very little to actually stop anything other than a very large surge. A UPS is supposed to be one of the better ways to filter your power.

[Lampshade]

Another thing to check would be your bulbs. There's the probe/pulse bulbs and each require different ballasts. Something that can be overlooked, and could be why the ballast's are failing.

Here's Everything You Need to Know About Metal Halide Lamps and Ballasts (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php)

[Parker]

Are these recent failures replacement ballasts, or more old units failing ?

All three PFO ballasts were brand new, and the Galaxy's as well. That's six ballasts total.

Have you tried testing the supply voltage during start-up ? A voltage drop/low start-up voltage will fry a ballast over time

I tested the voltages after the failure of the first three, everything seemed to be fine, nothing looked out of range.


Have you opened any units to determine what is failing ? Capacitor/windings

I haven't but I have two most recent failures I can crack open.


Maybe a dumb question but, are you matching the recommended bulb types ?

I'm running 400W DE HQI Bulbs and Ballasts

[Parker]

How is the power in your neighbourhood? Any recent power outages or wind storms?

I'm not sure how sensitive MH ballasts are to power fluctuations but I have seen dirty power issues cause all sorts of problems. It is a very difficult thing to track down as well. There is a device called a voltage recorder than is basically tracks the voltage over a 24 hour period to look for fluctuations/surges. Not something most people have laying around.

I am told surge protectors to very little to actually stop anything other than a very large surge. A UPS is supposed to be one of the better ways to filter your power.

The power is pretty good, I can't recall the last time the power went out. No lights flickering randomly etc.

[makana]

Are there any major appliances on the same breaker, (dishwasher, washing machine)?

It really sounds like either the ballasts are overheating or there are voltage level issues. A large draw will cause temporary voltage fluctuations. Hard to believe the ballasts wouldn't be able to handle it though.

Sorry I don't have better advice for you but I have seen "dirty power" destroy expensive electronics repeatadly while electricians and the hydro company both tested everything ok. The problem is most tests are only looking at the levels at that moment in time. I havn't heard if they where able to fix the problem once it was proven to exist.

I don't really know what I would do if I was in your position. The switch to LED may work, some sort of power filter or ups might help. You could call some local electricians to see if they have any advice or a voltage recorder to test over a longer period of time.

Good Luck!

[Maverick00]

I have a hard time believing you'd be overheating the ballasts to the point of failure just because they are in a stand. If they have plently of room all around it shouldnt be that much of an issue, if they needed a fan they would be built with one (as some are). On the other hand obviously the cooler the better and adding a fan would be a good idea regardless. Sounds to me the issue lies elsewhere. You may be overheating the ballast but I dont believe the reason is from sitting in a stand.

[Parker]

Are there any major appliances on the same breaker, (dishwasher, washing machine)?

Good Luck!

Nope, nothing. I have two dedicated 20 amp circuits for the tank.

[Parker]

I have a hard time believing you'd be overheating the ballasts to the point of failure just because they are in a stand. .

Since I lost the first three the tank stand has been open, all the doors removed with the sump off-line, the only other thing generating heat under there would be my return pumps on the other side of the stand. The ballasts weren't running that hot if being able to hold them is any indication.

[Parker]

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do at this point, I'm really debating shutting it down for awhile, not selling anything other than livestock. I might just need a break, I've be fighting this tank for two years now, if it's not one thing it's another.

[chevyjaxon]

sounds like bad ballasts to me! 20 amps is more than enough (most breakers are only 15 amps) but heres a thought, have you tried firing your ballasts a few minutes apart from eachother to prevent a large surge? also I seen blue world has aquamedic reflux cube ballasts on sale right now for 110.00 Ive had one for 3 years and still going strong bar none the best setup Ive seen yet! built in cooling fan and no restriction to airflow across the windings. check them out you wont be dissapointed. stay away from the A.M. fixtures though had a spacelight pendant and junk is all i can say.:mrgreen:

[Parker]

sounds like bad ballasts to me! 20 amps is more than enough (most breakers are only 15 amps) but heres a thought, have you tried firing your ballasts a few minutes apart from eachother to prevent a large surge? also I seen blue world has aquamedic reflux cube ballasts on sale right now for 110.00 Ive had one for 3 years and still going strong bar none the best setup Ive seen yet! built in cooling fan and no restriction to airflow across the windings. check them out you wont be dissapointed. stay away from the A.M. fixtures though had a spacelight pendant and junk is all i can say.:mrgreen:

They are presently controlled my my Apex and they fire ten min's apart.
2:00pm / 2:10pm / 2:20pm and the reverse to shut down at night.

[Reef Pilot]

They are presently controlled my my Apex and they fire ten min's apart.
2:00pm / 2:10pm / 2:20pm and the reverse to shut down at night.
Which outlets? Remember some of them (not 4 and 8) have a soft start feature, which might affect your ballasts.

[Parker]

Which outlets? Remember some of them (not 4 and 8) have a soft start feature, which might affect your ballasts.

That's something to check for sure. I can't remember which outlets they are on off the top of my head but I'll have a look when I get home.

[Parker]

That's something to check for sure. I can't remember which outlets they are on off the top of my head but I'll have a look when I get home.

Couldn't wait, had my wife run down and check.

I have 3 Energy Bar 8's and each of the lights are plugged in to socket 4 which are the relay outlets capable of 10 amps ea.