How many fish in a 50?? :)

[Aquattro]

Here's my list so far

sailfin tang
powder blue tang
2 x yellow tang
emporer angel
3 x anthias
3x clown
asst damsel
2x chromis
pesky goby

Ok, a bit overstocked. No skimmer, so what do ya think would be a good water change schedule?

*** This is a temp holding system for 3 weeks

[spawn]

the tang police are coming, I can hear them.

[Aquattro]

the tang police are coming, I can hear them.

lol, no doubt!!

[Reef Pilot]

pesky goby

Sorry for off the topic question. But why is he "pesky"? Am planning to get a couple of these for my tanks, because of their sand cleaning habits. I don't have sugar sand.

[Leah]

Here's my list so far

sailfin tang
powder blue tang
2 x yellow tang
emporer angel
3 x anthias
3x clown
asst damsel
2x chromis
pesky goby

Ok, a bit overstocked. No skimmer, so what do ya think would be a good water change schedule?

*** This is a temp holding system for 3 weeks

Have you any live rock in it or just the few fish? :wink:

[Aquattro]

Have you any live rock in it or just the few fish? :wink:

bout 25 or 30 pounds LR, plus a large aquaclear with 2 foam blocks

[Aquattro]

Sorry for off the topic question. But why is he "pesky"? Am planning to get a couple of these for my tanks, because of their sand cleaning habits. I don't have sugar sand.

sand spitter, and it took me a month to get it out of the display tnk

[subman]

Hey Brad I think the Tang police have left canreef to make an Emergency arrest...

knock knock knock

rofl.

(I love it need to see pics of this tank!!)

[Aquattro]

(I love it need to see pics of this tank!!)

Yup :) I'll take a pic once I add the remaining fish. I think tonight..

[subman]

Epic!!!

[ponokareefer]

I'd recommend at least 25% water changes/week. That is a big bioload.

[Aquattro]

I'd recommend at least 25% water changes/week. That is a big bioload.

Ya. I guess I have to buy a new bucket for them, so can probably do at least 50% weekly for a few weeks.

[toytech]

I have a picture in my mind of a bunch of fish all squished against the glass with fins and things sticking out fo the top of the tank .As for whaterchanges i would just regularily test nitrates and do waterchanges acordingly to keep them at a level you deem aceptable .The thing that would worry me with that many fish would be O2 saturation , but you must be running a good skimmer so it should be ok. +1 on a picture , bet it looks awsome.

[ponokareefer]

I have a picture in my mind of a bunch of fish all squished against the glass with fins and things sticking out fo the top of the tank .As for whaterchanges i would just regularily test nitrates and do waterchanges acordingly to keep them at a level you deem aceptable .The thing that would worry me with that many fish would be O2 saturation , but you must be running a good skimmer so it should be ok. +1 on a picture , bet it looks awsome.

He states in the opening that he has no skimmer on this tank.

[Zoaelite]

Here's my list so far

sailfin tang
powder blue tang
2 x yellow tang
emporer angel
3 x anthias
3x clown
asst damsel
2x chromis
pesky goby

Ok, a bit overstocked. No skimmer, so what do ya think would be a good water change schedule?

*** This is a temp holding system for 3 weeks

I have a picture in my mind of a bunch of fish all squished against the glass with fins and things sticking out fo the top of the tank .As for whaterchanges i would just regularily test nitrates and do waterchanges acordingly to keep them at a level you deem aceptable .The thing that would worry me with that many fish would be O2 saturation , but you must be running a good skimmer so it should be ok. +1 on a picture , bet it looks awsome.

Time to pull out Mount Wannahockaloogie and crank open that air valve Brad :lol:.

[toytech]

hmm missed the no skimmer part.

[Aquattro]

I'll add a Tunze stream aimed across the surface for air exchange. If I need to, I can pull out a larger tank or do more water changes. Aggression is a top concern as well.
The plan is to treat all fish in this tank for 3 weeks until I can start re-adding to the main tank again, last week of april

[Leah]

They are making fun of you...don't worry their day will come. It is ah... called "Karma"
As for your problem I would start praying to the fish gods.
And +1 on testing.

[Aquattro]

They are making fun of you...don't worry their day will come. It is ah... called "Karma"
As for your problem I would start praying to the fish gods.
And +1 on testing.

I thought it was Carma??

Ya, praying to the FG is good advice :)

[Zoaelite]

K...C... Tomatato Potatataoto

Spelling is my Specaiality :razz:.

25%-50% every week with lots of feeding should keep everyone happy.

[Trigs]

I have a feeling he is yanking our chains....:frusty:

[Aquattro]

I have a feeling he is yanking our chains....:frusty:

Me? Nope :) I have a bunch of fish to quarantine and that I need to pick up now, and my display tank is currently waiting 6 weeks to rid it of velvet.

[Trigs]

Me? Nope :) I have a bunch of fish to quarantine and that I need to pick up now, and my display tank is currently waiting 6 weeks to rid it of velvet.

:lol:I Say touche sir, touche

[subman]

Me? Nope :) I have a bunch of fish to quarantine and that I need to pick up now, and my display tank is currently waiting 6 weeks to rid it of velvet.

oh crap that sucks I didn't know it was not by choice. I thought an upgrade or something...velvet is awful! sorry for making light of it earlier.

[Trigs]

oh crap that sucks I didn't know it was not by choice. I thought an upgrade or something...velvet is awful! sorry for making light of it earlier.

I as well thought this was some sort of upgrade until i looked closely! my apologies!

[Aquattro]

no worries, the velvet is a month ago, so just restocking fish so I can treat them all in quarantine before restocking the 180g. Not ideal, but I got a deal on some fish that I couldn't pass on, so I've got to manage them for a few more weeks in the smaller tank.
I forgot, I've got a purple tang coming too, although that one might be able to stay where it is for a few weeks.

[Madmak]

Just love 'em a little, thats really what it boils down to. Overstocked tanks take a bit more work and attention, they are not against any law and I don't really think there are "real" Tang Police.

You've got the right attitude, finding the best way to deal with the situation with what you have available. If you care about fish and care to know about fish, you will do what it takes to keep them happy.

[subman]

.... I don't really think there are "real" Tang Police.......

Oh they are real and they are watching right now!! That's why I have tinfoil on all my toilets! All pipes lead to the ocean....can't trust Tangs!!!

[Madmak]

Oh they are real and they are watching right now!!

Do they have a Mandarin division? Cause if they do I'm screwed!

[gregzz4]

Brad, if you're going to do 50% weekly, maybe you should split it and do bi-weekly changes. That's what I'd do anyway to avoid swings. And I'd probably use stress guard too. And a shorter lighting period may help with aggression.
Are you gonna do a hypo or such?

[Reefie]

the tang police are coming, I can hear them.

Brad, you'll be ok, just tell them that you thought the rule of thumb was 1 Tang per Gallon of Water Volume. You're ONLY going to have 5, so you're very safe with 1 Tang per 10 Gallons. :wink:

I think they'll be fine for a few weeks, however I'd suggest 25% WC's every 2-3 days with that kind of bio-load.

The aggression may be the bigger concern in such tight quarters for the Tangs. I'd suggest feeding a bit more Nori at opposite sides of the tank, so they're not all going to the same spot competing for food.

[Aquattro]

Are you gonna do a hypo or such?

I was going to, but decided no. The goby that took longer to catch seemed immune to the velvet. Once I caught it, I added it to the remaining fish in the q tank, and re-infected a couple of fish. Last night they didn't look great, but after treating with chloroquine, they're fine tonight and back eating. So I'll just use the CP to treat and run salt at about 1.022ish. Temp near 75 to enhance O2 saturation and lots of water movement.

[gregzz4]

Good to hear the infection is under control.
I like the temp idea. Something to store for future needs.

[Lance]

Brad, I don't think the aggression will be too bad as they won't really have their own space to defend. Numerous daily feedings and two nori stations at opposite ends of the tank will help. Maybe a little Texada Timewarp mixed in with the nori can't help but mellow those guys out. :mrgreen:

[George]

With so many big fish in such a tank, ammonia, oxygen, and aggression will be an issue. However those things can be dealt with easily. For ammonia problem, get yourself some prime or simiar ammonia binding thingy. For oxygen, buy a big airpump (they are cheap , less than the price for one fish). For aggression, get some egg-crate and make some tank dividers so you can separate the aggressors.
Good luck.

[Aquattro]

With so many big fish in such a tank, ammonia, oxygen, and aggression will be an issue. However those things can be dealt with easily. For ammonia problem, get yourself some prime or simiar ammonia binding thingy. For oxygen, buy a big airpump (they are cheap , less than the price for one fish). For aggression, get some egg-crate and make some tank dividers so you can separate the aggressors.
Good luck.

The tank is fully cycled with half a dozen fish now, then adding the rest later this week, if I get time to pick them up. I've added some more rock, will arrange it to provide lots of different mini territories, the aquaclear really agitates the surface and I can add more pumps. The biggie is managing interfish relationships. Worst case I can add dividers to section off fights.

[Madmak]

You could always call a meeting if things get out of hand. Meetings solve everything, just ask my boss.

[Aquattro]

You could always call a meeting if things get out of hand. Meetings solve everything, just ask my boss.

You work for IBM?? :razz:

[Madmak]

Close :)

Aren't all 3 letter companies the same?

[Aquattro]

Close :)

Aren't all 3 letter companies the same?

Pretty much :)

[Aquattro]

Ok, got them all loaded, we even caught the purple tang. Should be interesting around here for a few weeks :neutral:

[gregzz4]

I think we need a pic of so many dudes in such a small space :grouphug:

[Madmak]

I think we need a pic of so many dudes in such a small space :grouphug:

+1

[subman]

+2

[Aquattro]

I can post a pic as soon as I manage the NH3 spike I got overnight! This is going to be a long 3 weeks...

[gregzz4]

Brad, have you thought about using Fluval Zeo-carb, or something similar?
Even just some Seachem AmGuard?
I have both on hand for my QT, as well as an AmAlert.
And you know Prime will work during emergencies.

[Aquattro]

Brad, have you thought about using Fluval Zeo-carb, or something similar?
Even just some Seachem AmGuard?
I have both on hand for my QT, as well as an AmAlert.
And you know Prime will work during emergencies.

I've got prime, so squirted some in the tank, but I'm not sure how much to use. I'll pick up some AmGaurd as soon as I can get to a store.

and making more water.....

[George]

I've got prime, so squirted some in the tank, but I'm not sure how much to use. I'll pick up some AmGaurd as soon as I can get to a store.

and making more water.....

On my bottle of prime, it says 5ml for 50 gallons. That removes 1mg/L ammonia.

[Aquattro]

On my bottle of prime, it says 5ml for 50 gallons. That removes 1mg/L ammonia.

Great, thanks.

[gregzz4]

On my bottle of prime, it says 5ml for 50 gallons. That removes 1mg/L ammonia.
Funny, the website states the same, but my 1g size says 0.8mg/L
I'm sure it's not vital

Brad you should know that overdosing Prime can cause serious O2 depletion, so you should just use some tonight before you buy the AmGuard, or AmQuel or whatever you decide on/find

[Aquattro]

Brad you should know that overdosing Prime can cause serious O2 depletion


didn't know that. Thanks. I may have to reroute the sump off my frag system to the q tank so that I can run more water and a skimmer. I rinsed the foam in the aquaclear last night during the water change, so probably reduced the bacteria substantially. Guess I'm doing another WC tonight....

[gregzz4]

And because you're running a lower temp, I'm sure if you wanted to go a little crazy with the Prime tonight it will be OK.
I'd be inclined to do a water change and then monitor it every hour or 2 before bed.
Another 25-50% WC before late-to-bed wouldn't hurt either .... :wink:

[gregzz4]

Why don't you try running 2 foams in the Aquaclear and alternate rinsing. Plus some carbon and read about the Zeo-carb.
Now, here's a useless suggestion considering your time frame, but maybe you should put some biopellets in your Aquaclear and in conjunction start dosing Stability daily at twice the dose ( since you're going shopping anyway ).

[Aquattro]

Well, water probably won't mix before bed time, and I have to crash soon. I've added some prime, and also added about 20lbs of rock. And a power head aiming at the surface to keep O2 up....
I have 2 foam blocks in the filter, but got all OCD on them last night and squished out all the muck. Shoulda left it alone or done only one. right now I have about 40 pounds of rock and the 2 foam blocks, so the bacteria should recover soon enough, but the next few days will need lots of water :)

[gregzz4]

So you're up to what now, 40-50lbs of rock? That will help lots.
Please report back tomorrow and let us know what you are doing/adding.

BTW, Sunday is QT Picture day :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

If the NH3 hasn't dropped by morning, I'll reroute the frag sump with skimmer to the fish tank. Right now, 40+ pounds of rock, 2 foam blocks in the large aquaclear, a large korallia across the surface and added 5ml of Prime. Before this NH3 was about 2.0ppm, so if it hasn't dropped by 6am, I'll connect the sump, which has about 60 or 70 gallons and a large skimmer.

[freezetyle]

I've got a biocube not being used if you want another holding tank. or you can qt that powder blue at my place :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

Thanks Jon. I've got an empty 50 here, but no established filtration. worst case, I can add the 90g sump to the system. But since I'm treating them, I'd prefer not running a skimmer or dosing an extra 70g of water :)

[The Guy]

sand spitter, and it took me a month to get it out of the display tnk
I have a yellow faced sleeper Goby and he is always moving my crushed coral around the tank, also spits stuff over my leathers and makes a mess. I was going to get rid of him but he keeps the bottom fresh and clean looking as well as trying to catch him would not be easy, so he wins. :smile:

[Borderjumper]

Brad I have another big aquaclear just like the one your using if you want to use it. I don't think it has any sponges tho. Text me if you need it.

[gregzz4]

Brad stated he added 5ml of Prime to his 50g tank. If what I'm calculating is correct, it will not make any difference at all.

Is my math off ???

If 5ml of Prime in 50g of water removes 1mg/L, and there's 189L in a 50g ( give or take), doesn't this mean that you would need to add a whole lot of Prime (close to a litre of it) to remove that 1mg of Ammonia?

189 * 5 = 945ml of Prime

This tells me you would need to add almost a litre of Prime to remove just one mg of Ammonia in his 50g tank.

Am I missing something here, or is this why people overdose Prime?

Would someone show me how I am off here, or confirm my math?

[lpsreefer]

I dont see why people have a problem with this. It's only temp. Also if the fish are showing no signs of infection or bad bacteria then no problem. If its long term them fine. It not like every one is going into certain lfs going you can't keep that fish on there because a 3 foot by 18 by 18 inches isn't big enough for that fish.
If your water is stable. And its only for short term. And they remain eating. Look healthy.
Then it's really Just keeping up keep.
For thoses of us in Calgary how about looking at the angel, orange shoulder tang, and clown tang at a certain local fish store on 16th.

I'm not justifying nor am I saying its wrong. In a few years it might be impossible to get any saltwater items.

Sorry for the bad grammar.
Also for the noted I have had a lot to drink tonight.
Looking forward to the plumbing I did hopefully it hold without leaking.

[gregzz4]

The question to be answered here was;
"is the math off on the Prime dose?"

[gregzz4]

I have had a lot to drink tonight.
Looking forward to the plumbing I did hopefully it hold without leaking.
Cheers to your plumbing holding up bud :drinking:

I've plumbed during beers when I shouldn't have :happy:

[Aquattro]

Brad I have another big aquaclear just like the one your using if you want to use it. I don't think it has any sponges tho. Text me if you need it.

Thanks Shelley, but it's looking better. NH3 down to under 1.0ppm, and I'm going to connect it to the sump now.

[Aquattro]

I dont see why people have a problem with this.

I don't think anyone is having a problem with this, as it is a temp solution. Circumstances being that these fish were only available now due to a tank shut down, my schedule got pushed forward a bit. I've actually found everyone quite helpful, and even Naesco hasn't tried arresting me :)

[Aquattro]

ok, 5:30am and I've got the sump hooked up, an extra 10lbs of rock and an ER RS180 running for now. I'll let the skimmer run for the day and then turn it off to medicate the tank (assuming NH3 goes to 0).

[Aquattro]

Leaving for the day, NH3 sitting at 0.25ppm. Looks like it's going down.

[George]

If 5ml of Prime in 50g of water removes 1mg/L, and there's 189L in a 50g ( give or take), doesn't this mean that you would need to add a whole lot of Prime (close to a litre of it) to remove that 1mg of Ammonia?

189 * 5 = 945ml of Prime

This tells me you would need to add almost a litre of Prime to remove just one mg of Ammonia in his 50g tank.

Am I missing something here, or is this why people overdose Prime?



1mg/L refers to concentration of NH4. Not dosage. So you don't need to time 189L. Actually since Brad has (had, since then he connects the QT to his sump) 50 G, he only needs to dose 5 ml to lower the whole tank of NH4 by 1mg/L (theoretically).

[Aquattro]

Just got home, tank is still sitting at 0.25ppm, so no increase over the last 12 hours. Good thing. I'll change some water later on, not sure there are any stores open tonight to find more prime. Fish all look fine though, so we'll see what the next 12 hours brings.

[Skimmerking]

Brad just keep that skimmer going and don't have any lights and if you can cover the tank do it this will cause the fish to relax and be less stressed out. And they will forget about who is in the tank and don't feed so much. Let the slimmer do what it needs to do. And don't worry about what others think or say. Remember you are a mod and. An ban them. Good. Luck buds

[Aquattro]

Mike, I can't keep the skimmer going, I've got to medicate the tank and skimming will remove it. But so far, everyone is getting along and just came to the corner begging for food. They're all looking fine, so once NH3 drops to 0, I'll turn the skimmer off and medicate, changing water as needed.

[gregzz4]

1mg/L refers to concentration of NH4. Not dosage. So you don't need to time 189L. Actually since Brad has (had, since then he connects the QT to his sump) 50 G, he only needs to dose 5 ml to lower the whole tank of NH4 by 1mg/L (theoretically).
Ya, I woke up thinking about my confusion.
Quite the brain fart on my part.

[Aquattro]

So as I approach adding the fish back to the display, what's everyone's suggestions on how many to add at a time?
5 good size tangs, 3 anthias, three clowns, one Emperor angel, 2 chromis, and a damsel (in a pear tree)..

[Borderjumper]

So as I approach adding the fish back to the display, what's everyone's suggestions on how many to add at a time?
5 good size tangs, 3 anthias, three clowns, one Emperor angel, 2 chromis, and a damsel (in a pear tree)..
I would add the chromis and damsel, wait a few days and add the clowns, wait a few days and add the anthias, then wait a week and add the rest. This is of course testing daily and assuming your tank is keeping up.

[Leah]

So as I approach adding the fish back to the display, what's everyone's suggestions on how many to add at a time?
5 good size tangs, 3 anthias, three clowns, one Emperor angel, 2 chromis, and a damsel (in a pear tree)..

Skip the pear tree

[Aquattro]

I would add the chromis and damsel, wait a few days and add the clowns, wait a few days and add the anthias, then wait a week and add the rest. This is of course testing daily and assuming your tank is keeping up.

Sounds like a plan!

[Aquattro]

Skip the pear tree

Nutrient removal. Like mangroves, but bigger and you can eat pears later! :razz:

[gregzz4]

I would be more prone to adding them in a reverse order based on aggression and territorialism rather than size

[Aquattro]

I would be more prone to adding them in a reverse order based on aggression and territorialism rather than size

so far they all get along in the Q tank, although with all the hiding spots, it's tough to observe them. and most are new to me, so I don't know their behaviours very well. At this point, I think I just have to worry about NH3 levels as I add them to the display.

[gregzz4]

In that case, the 3 day recommendation is fair, but 5 may be better as it takes that long for NO2 to start working effectively.
Sure I have lots of FW experience, but you've been at it long enough to know better than I.
Remember, my saltie isn't even running yet !

[Leah]

I would add the chromis and damsel, wait a few days and add the clowns, wait a few days and add the anthias, then wait a week and add the rest. This is of course testing daily and assuming your tank is keeping up.

This would be my choice for adding them back as well.