Who has had AEFW and beat them?

[rastaangel]

I after beating the red bugs I discovered I have AEFW... Problems always snowball:sad:
Anyways who has had them and how did you beat them? Also does anyone know of a whole tank treatment?

[Aquattro]

There is no whole tank treatment. IF you can remove all acros, you can treat them, otherwise you can only hope to control them with various predators.

[daniella3d]

Flatworm Stop...in tank, reef safe and supposably a great prophylactique treatment for acropora flatworms:

http://www.korallen-zucht.de/fr/shop/produits--technologie/solution-aux-problmes/4850_flatworm-stop.html

I have not tried it but heard good review about it. It's just that it must be used for a few months to fully work, but I might use it as a preventive because it is said to enhance the color and health of SPS even if there are no flatworms.

Raging Reef in MOntreal have just got it in, so I am guessing other stores will soon get it as well.

[pterfloth]

I had AEFW and lost a lot of nice colonies. I ended up removing the worst and eventually won out by daily basting my acros and letting my Chromis eat the free floaters. Tried every type of wrasse possible with no luck.

I saw this the other day. Zeo has a new tank safe treatment out. Worth a shot.
http://reefbuilders.com/2012/01/18/zeovit-flatwormstop/

[rastaangel]

This is the bottom of my tri color... Covered with eggs :(
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/rastaangel/018-1.jpg

[Casey8]

Oh my ... :cry:

[Borderjumper]

Arrrrg that quite sucks.

[Aquattro]

I heard about the zeo stuff and followed up on some reviews on RC. Apparently it doesn't kill them, it just "makes the coral stronger" so that it can deal with it. It's very expensive and should be used full time. Minimum 3 months for any real effect.

Everybody has to understand these types of things and that it's avoidable by practicing good bio-security. Dip your corals, or you WILL introduce something bad to your tank. It's just a matter of when.

OP, for your situation, if you can remove your acros, do so and dip them. Cut the plugs off frags and toss them. Use a toothbrush to clean the bases of your corals. It's a long and tedious job to get rid of these.
Even under a microscope, AEFWs are tough to see unless they move. You will not see them on a frag with your eyes.

[albert_dao]

I heard about the zeo stuff and followed up on some reviews on RC. Apparently it doesn't kill them, it just "makes the coral stronger" so that it can deal with it. It's very expensive and should be used full time. Minimum 3 months for any real effect.


Well, that's sort of an explanation.

What it actually does is thicken the slime coat and make the tissue of the coral noxious and less palatable to the flatworm. It also makes colors nicer :)

In any case, how has anyone reviewed it yet? I just shipped it last week.

[Aquattro]

In any case, how has anyone reviewed it yet? I just shipped it last week.

The discussions came from RC based on feedback from the Zeo board. No real reviews, just concerns on the labeling that sort of implies it eradicates them when in fact it does not (apparently). I didn't look too far into it, I had just discussed it with Japarto last week and was curious.

I suppose even if it helps those affected, it's better than nothing :)

[rastaangel]

Well I have over 60 SPS colonies and frags in my tank the moment, 1/3 of them are encusted and cant be removed to dip without massivly damaging them.
I have no room or the required euipment to QT all them. So I am forced to remove what I can and dip them weekly.
Is there any SPS that they dont eat? Or is it just the smooth skinned acros? thats all I have seen so far and thrashed them.

[albert_dao]

The discussions came from RC based on feedback from the Zeo board. No real reviews, just concerns on the labeling that sort of implies it eradicates them when in fact it does not (apparently). I didn't look too far into it, I had just discussed it with Japarto last week and was curious.

I suppose even if it helps those affected, it's better than nothing :)

Such are the joys of "Germish" :D

[megs_clark]

what about levomisole. Im sure I spelled that wrong. Its a wormer, used to be used frequently in Canada for worming pigs. I used it a few years back on my flatworms and it killed them. I didnt have many corals but the ones I had (monti caps ) and a huge carpet anemone all lived. I lose my snails and shrimp but those can be removed easy enough.

Might be worth trying to find, You can get pills, or powder. I used the loose powder.

[Aquattro]

what about levomisole. Im sure I spelled that wrong. Its a wormer, used to be used frequently in Canada for worming pigs. I used it a few years back on my flatworms and it killed them. I didnt have many corals but the ones I had (monti caps ) and a huge carpet anemone all lived. I lose my snails and shrimp but those can be removed easy enough.

Might be worth trying to find, You can get pills, or powder. I used the loose powder.


It's been tried unsuccessfully.

[daniella3d]

isn't levamisole the active ingredient in flatworm exit? I am not sure.

In any case, if that new product can be used to slowly starve the flatworms, it might be worth a try, especially if it makes the coral more healthy and colorful. Maybe it may even help to protect against RTN and STN?

Only long term will tell.

It's been tried unsuccessfully.

[rastaangel]

Well I just did a full evaluation on all my SPS. I found that more then 1/3 of my tank has the small bite marks of AEFW or eggs on the bottom of them which says that this has been going on for a while I just never figured it out and blamed the red bugs for the loss of color.

Do these lil bastards only lay eggs on corals or on the rocks to?

[Aquattro]

Since they lay eggs on the frag plugs, I'd assume they can lay them on rock as well. Only way to really get rid of them is remove all acros from the tank, treat them and leave the tank empty for some length of time.
Management has had varying degrees of success from threads I've read on RC

[rastaangel]

well at this point in time I dont have the required equipment or space to QT all my SPS... Im so angry im at a total loss for words

[daniella3d]

I think in your case I would try the new treatment, even if it only to make your SPS regain health and color it would be worth it. If it work, you might be able to control the population with time.

It is surely worth a try, better then having to remove all corals and stress them even further or break them...plus even if you remove them all and dip them, the flatworms will still be around in the liverock and there will be their eggs. They is no garantee they won't return and you would have done all this work for nothing. hmmm...


well at this point in time I dont have the required equipment or space to QT all my SPS... Im so angry im at a total loss for words

[Aquattro]

well at this point in time I dont have the required equipment or space to QT all my SPS... Im so angry im at a total loss for words

No doubt. Luckily I've escaped these things. I've bought frags that when I got home found them under the microscope, at that point I toss the frag out.

I actually recall having these in a tank about 12 years ago, long before anyone knew what they were. I saw it and thought "hmm, cool little wormy thing" and put it back in my tank :)
That tank never showed signs of damage, but I wasn't looking, and the tank wasn't up for that long.
After episodes with red bugs over the years, I've learned to inspect every frag I get. I know that doesn't help now, but going forward, it's something to think about.

[Aquattro]

They is no garantee they won't return and you would have done all this work for nothing. hmmm...

Leaving the tank free for the required period does guarantee it. Not sure the time, but they do die out, just like ich or velvet.

[dreef]

The only way is to remove all the acroporas and dip them and put them into a quarantine tank for at least 2 months.The quarantined acros need to be inspected and redipped weekly,removing any eggs.Any encrusting on the rocks has to be removed.If you don't break the cycle the new eggs hatch and it starts all over again.

[daniella3d]

Do the corals survive this? for 2 months that mean that one must have a good stable mature tank with the same lighting for 2 months and the corals being fetch out and dipped each week, must be very harsh on them.

I hope I never get that crap. copper poisoning is enough nightmare for a lifetime.


The only way is to remove all the acroporas and dip them and put them into a quarantine tank for at least 2 months.The quarantined acros need to be inspected and redipped weekly,removing any eggs.Any encrusting on the rocks has to be removed.If you don't break the cycle the new eggs hatch and it starts all over again.

[nrosdal]

i used something called flatworm rx and it worked... it took alot of treatments and my corals were not that happy at the end but nothing died and i can't find any flatworms.

i also added a sixline the eat any that might pop up again in the display

[BlueWorldAquatic]

natural way we won a couple of years ago was suck out as much as you can, and put the following livestock in;

In order of effectivness in my opinion.

Melenarus wrasse
Blue Velvet Nudibrach
Yellow coris wrasse
mandarin goby
six line wrasse

haven't seen any in either our LPS/SPS in a long time

[Aquattro]

natural way we won a couple of years ago was suck out as much as you can, and put the following livestock in;



How did you suck them out? They live on the acros and blend perfectly with the tissue coloration.
You might be thinking those red flatworms that grow all over the sand and stuff...

[rastaangel]

So tonight im gonna dip every peice in my tank in coral rx. Do these things only go after acros or do they eat all SPS? Cuz ive got a huge supernatural monti thats encrusted onto the glass and overflow that i wont be able to get off without scratching it up... Also alot of very delicate birdsnests that will be in a million peices

[Aquattro]

Only acropora..

[daniella3d]

yes, plus the black velvet nudibranch don't do on any coral. They are sort of repulsive on going on corals, at least that was my observation, plus they are totally uncompatible with strong flow and pumps.

I had to lower my flow quite a bit and put nets over my pumps and they would still get stuck on them.

How did you suck them out? They live on the acros and blend perfectly with the tissue coloration.
You might be thinking those red flatworms that grow all over the sand and stuff...

[Seriak]

Whatever happened to greenex. I had them many years ago and just greenexed the tank. Did not lose anything including coral, shrimp or fish but I didn't have any SPS at the time. Worked great, but turns your clear silicone a green color. Do they even sell it anymore?

[daniella3d]

you had them? them what extactly? Because if you had no SPS then you probably did not have any acropora eating flatworms, so there is no way to say that it worked great.

IN any case, I would not put that in a reef tank for sure. It contain malachite green and quinine...not very compatible with a reef. It also contain copper from what I read.


Whatever happened to greenex. I had them many years ago and just greenexed the tank. Did not lose anything including coral, shrimp or fish but I didn't have any SPS at the time. Worked great, but turns your clear silicone a green color. Do they even sell it anymore?

[Seriak]

I had tiny red flat worms. Not sure of the specifics.

[Aquattro]

I had tiny red flat worms. Not sure of the specifics.

Wrong ones for this thread. We're talking about acropora eating flatworms, little mottled brownish planaria that live exclusively on acropora. Impossible to see, lay eggs around base of coral. Bad critters.

[Seriak]

My bad, thought all flatworms could be treated the same. It looks like those acropora flatworms are very resilient to meds. Have to be careful of those guys.

[rastaangel]

So your tellin me I didnt have to bust all my monti's and undata off the rocks... :twised:

[Aquattro]

So your tellin me I didnt have to bust all my monti's and undata off the rocks... :twised:

Well, I did post the answer, you shoulda waited :)

[rastaangel]

Well I guess ill have lotsa cali tort, tyree undata, and ORA supernatural monti frags after I beat them...

[rastaangel]

Well after having to do 30g of water changes and use 2 bottles of coral rx dip to do all my SPS I have decided to try alternative measures as I couldnt possibly do that every week for 2 months, even tho theres no clear cut method.
Tonight I tried flatworm exit. Dosed the recomeened dosage for my tank and nothing happened... So I doubled it, nothing happened... Then dumped the whole thing in... And nothing happened.
Did a 25g change and ran lotsa carbon after a 4 hr treatment.
Flatworm exit does not work even @ +3x dose
Gonna try some other things

[dreef]

Flat worm exit is for the harmless red Planaria flatworms,has no effect on AEFW.Coral rx,revive..etc. kill AEFW but no dip kills the eggs,have to be manually removed.Sorry Cory you have to go through this,it has caused some people to shut down there tanks.

[rastaangel]

This will be the last straw for me to shut down.... Ive had enough
First I had a tank break, then wiped out by ick, then wiped out by velvet, then I had a heater give out and kill off everything, then my landlord used ant spray by my tank which killed all my coral and caused a spike which resulted in massive hair algea and most other wiped out so I stared over again, then I stocked again and had a longnose butterfly wipeout 80% of my SPS, restocked then I developed bacterial problems, then red bugs, then AEFW and last night a power surge casue my lead heater to give out and my tank dropped to 74* and nothing is happy!!!!
Think thats enough to throw in the towel? All has happened in less then 2 yrs BTW

[Aquattro]

If you decide to stick with it, a quarantine system might be something worth looking into. Seems like a lot of the problems were added to the tank. Quarantining would have caught most of that.

[Matman]

I had two colonies infected. I've been using zeovit flatwormstop for less than a month and it seems pretty good. One of the two colonies (a suharsonoi) is recovering fine and don't seem to have any AEFW on it anymore. The other one (a red hyacinthus) was more deeply affected by them and was still infested when I dip it yesterday. They suggest using it at least 3 months so I hope to save that colony, it's a fast grower usually. I think it should be good to prevent futher propagation from the result I got with the suharsonoi. I can add that it's also good for polyp extention and it didn't stimulate cyano bloom even at double or triple dose.

My tank is also running in low nutrient with daily dosing of nopox. I guess it might makes a difference since it's a zeovit product.

[albert_dao]

This will be the last straw for me to shut down.... Ive had enough
First I had a tank break, then wiped out by ick, then wiped out by velvet, then I had a heater give out and kill off everything, then my landlord used ant spray by my tank which killed all my coral and caused a spike which resulted in massive hair algea and most other wiped out so I stared over again, then I stocked again and had a longnose butterfly wipeout 80% of my SPS, restocked then I developed bacterial problems, then red bugs, then AEFW and last night a power surge casue my lead heater to give out and my tank dropped to 74* and nothing is happy!!!!
Think thats enough to throw in the towel? All has happened in less then 2 yrs BTW

I feel bad for you, but I suppose I should point out the obvious: All of this, including the heater BS could have been avoided/fixed with proper planning and education.

Where did you get all your advice from?

[Myka]

Well I just did a full evaluation on all my SPS. I found that more then 1/3 of my tank has the small bite marks of AEFW or eggs on the bottom of them which says that this has been going on for a while I just never figured it out and blamed the red bugs for the loss of color.

Wow Cory, looks like you need better dipping and/or quarantining protocol.

I had AEFW in my tank once on a colony I had just bought. It was in my tank for a couple weeks when I noticed it browning out and saw the bite marks. I was using Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure for dipping (which is supposed to eliminate AEFW btw) at that time. I solved the problem by throwing the coral in the garbage can. Luckily I haven't seen them since (touch wood). AEFW are seriously the worst thing (besides RTN) that can happen to an SPS tank.

I now use Coral Rx, Levamisole, and Interceptor dips on all incoming Acros. I also put them in quarantine for at least 2 weeks. They are generally quite brown after all that. :lol: I don't mind, color comes back. Btw, no treatment exists that kills AEFW eggs, so quarantine is really the best protocol.

Have you seen this article? The Levamisole dip described is the one I use. Things that Suck: Acropora Eating Flatworms (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/mc/index.php)

[rastaangel]

So I just treated with levasol...
AND THERE ALL DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of my fish are having a huge flatworm meal, except my sleeper goby he seems to like to eat the mini brittles that arnt doin to well
I will be using this treatment every week for 4 months to make sure there all dead as well as weekly inspecting for eggs

[Matman]

So I just treated with levasol...
AND THERE ALL DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
All of my fish are having a huge flatworm meal, except my sleeper goby he seems to like to eat the mini brittles that arnt doin to well
I will be using this treatment every week for 4 months to make sure there all dead as well as weekly inspecting for eggs

Where can you get Levamisol? I would consider it if it would get worst.

[Aquattro]

There are lots of threads on RC about Levamisol, apparently it's not a permanent solution.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2027706

[Myka]

I think the problem with Levamisole, and any other treatment known, is simply that it won't kill the eggs. Eggs are produced and hatched quite quickly, so it is easy for AEFW to repopulate. Corey might have a decent battle plan, although I think 4 months is rather excessive. I would be worried about the amount of Levamisole going into the full system, but AEFW is so persistent and difficult to deal with that maybe it is the best plan there is.

[Aquattro]

maybe it is the best plan there is.

Well, I certainly don't have any other plans :) If I ever got these things, I'd be screwed. Everything is encrusted to rock, so dipping is out. Biggest reason out there to dip and inspect every frag you buy.

[Myka]

You can buy bendable extension arms for drills that you can put a bag on and put them in the tank. Attach a small diamond blade (like a Dremel blade) to the extension and you can cut the corals off the rocks. You can also buy small coping saws and keyhole saws with fine blades on them which you can use to hand cut. There is never no way! :p

[rastaangel]

I know that nothin kills the eggs which is why I am inspecting all the corals once a week for eggs whenever I do a WC. I also couldnt find a hatch out period for eggs which is why I am going for around 4 months to make sure. I am also waiting for kelly to get me in some fish that eat them for some natural defence.
But if I decide to take this other job the tank with be turned into a FOWLR system and all the corals will either be sold/given away or tossed in the trash