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My tank is doing some funny things and i would like some help.
it's a 20 gallon FOWLR and i currently have two small clarkii clowns and a scooter blenny and 6 hermit crabs and 1 snail.
my fish are not moving much and they seem to be breathing heavily. they don't go after the food during feeding time.
my parameters are:
salinity: 1.023
temp: 25 c
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
ph: 7.8-8.0 - i know it's a bit low but it was 8.3 just a few days ago.
i also had a sex line wrasse in it a few days ago and it died last night. all i did the last 2 days was a 20% water change and i added a new powerhead. i use water conditioner for my water changes. i'm not sure what else to test for my tank. any suggestions?
subman
03-19-2012, 04:45 AM
sounds like low o2. point a powerhead up to cause some surface turbulence.
do you run a skimmer?
tim the toolman
03-19-2012, 05:08 AM
sounds like low o2. point a powerhead up to cause some surface turbulence.
do you run a skimmer?
+1 on the oxygen. Are you getting a film on the top of your water?
Ohhh i never thought of that. I pointed the powerhead more in an angle but how do i know It's getting enough oxygen? I also do not run a skimmer even though i have one. Thanks
tim the toolman
03-19-2012, 05:12 AM
Do you have any type of surface skimming, overflow or canister surface attachment?
subman
03-19-2012, 05:16 AM
if you can hook the skimmer up if not to skim at least for now to get some o2 in.
glass tops?
i do not have any surface skimming right now so i am really thinking it is low oxygen. should i use my old powerhead (it's really strong) to create more oxygen? i also have a power filter that is not in use. should i use that also?
no glass top. it's open. i will try to hook up my skimmer. i haven't opened it yet. was going to use it when i get corals.
subman
03-19-2012, 05:22 AM
mixing the surface is the key right now. you don't need more flow, just get the existing one rumbling the surface
subman
03-19-2012, 05:24 AM
what kind of power filter?
if is a aquaclear or similar plug it in and run it empty to stir it up
how much waves do i need cause it's making a lot of ripples on top of the water but i don't see any bubbles forming?
it's an aquaclear and i will use it to stir up the water. thanks
reefwars
03-19-2012, 06:45 AM
how much waves do i need cause it's making a lot of ripples on top of the water but i don't see any bubbles forming?
you dont need to have bubbles forming, if the powerhead is just rippling the surface that will suffice.
how old is this tank???
daniella3d
03-19-2012, 12:31 PM
It's spring, and there could be something in your tap water that might have done this. This is why it is best to use RO water that is filtered before putting it in the tank. What type of conditionner do you use? It might not be enough to neutralize seasonal desinfectant that the water company might use.
At least that is my guess, but a small 20 gallons with 3 fish in there and no skimmer, just a small powerhead, could be low oxygen as well.
Could be a disease. How long did you have that wrasse that died?
Aquattro
03-19-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm going to guess it's not a O2 issue. 20g with 3 small fish and you have surface movement, not O2. Easy way to test, siphon 5g into a bucket, then dump it back in the tank. If you don't see noticeable improvement immediately, it's not O2.
All fish breathing heavy and not eating sounds more like disease to me. Or contaminants in the tap water.
Tank is about two months old and after an overnight of getting more oxygen in the tank the fishies are still breathing heavily. I also use nutrafin aqua plus for my water conditioner. It might be the spring water that has melted recently. Anything else i can check for?
daniella3d
03-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Have you checked for ammonia? If you have chloramine in your tap water and you used a dechlorinator, then that released the ammonia and left it behind. In that case you should use Prime. I would use Prime as your water conditionner as it is a very good conditionner that neutralize ammonia as well.
I would get a RO unit as soon as possible and do a good water change. Put some carbon in there maybe just in case there would be some chimical in it, or chemipure or polyfilter in case that would be some heavy metal.
Just don't use Kent carbon as it might be contaminated with copper. Seachem Matrix carbon is good, just rinse it very well and if you can, first soak it in boiling water for a few hours before use.
For 20 gallons tank, it is really best to have a RO unit since it will be so fast to generate enough water and it will last a long time without replacing the membrane. Since this condition coincide with the water change, I suspect some contaminant in your tap water. The conditionner only neutralize chlorine.
Tank is about two months old and after an overnight of getting more oxygen in the tank the fishies are still breathing heavily. I also use nutrafin aqua plus for my water conditioner. It might be the spring water that has melted recently. Anything else i can check for?
reefwars
03-19-2012, 04:09 PM
did you use liverock or dry rock??
i will look into buying prime water conditioner but aqua plus states it removes chlorine and chloramine. i did check for ammonia and it shows close to 0. i have about 30 lbs of live rock currently in my tank. any suggestions where to buy an ok RO unit? i'm on a budget. thanks
reefwars
03-19-2012, 04:22 PM
i will look into buying prime water conditioner but aqua plus states it removes chlorine and chloramine. i did check for ammonia and it shows close to 0. i have about 30 lbs of live rock currently in my tank. any suggestions where to buy an ok RO unit? i'm on a budget. thanks
should read 0 for amonia if theres any amonia it could be the cause of heavy brething could even be lethal in even just small amounts.
if theres amonia in your tank then your not finished cycling yet and with 3 fish in a 20g it would make sense that they are breathing heavy.
it should be finished cycling because my nitrites and nitrates read 0 and i had fish swimming around the tank and eating well for over two weeks.
daniella3d
03-19-2012, 04:30 PM
In deed, at high PH and hight temperature, even a trace of ammonia can be toxic.
If your conditioner is anything like Prime, it only control ammonia for 24 hours and it must be dosed every 24 hours until the ammonia is undetectible.
Prime is also said to neutralize heavy metal, not sure if this is true or not. For a RO unit, look in the local add like on kijiji, or ebay, or put some post mentioning you are looking for one on a budget. Maybe someone has one for sale.
should read 0 for amonia if theres any amonia it could be the cause of heavy brething could even be lethal in even just small amounts.
if theres amonia in your tank then your not finished cycling yet and with 3 fish in a 20g it would make sense that they are breathing heavy.
reefwars
03-19-2012, 04:33 PM
yes but you see you added to much to fast restarting your cycle, 2 clowns, a six line wrasses and a scooter are far too much for a 20g just set up and finished cycling not even 2 weeks ago.
a scooter is not a good choice for a first addition imo.
see when you start testing after set up and you see the amonia drops to zero it means that you can add something small, this is going to add a very small amount of amonia to your tank on a regular basis thus keeping bacteria multiplying, as the bacteria multiplys it is able to handle stronger loads of amonia....this is called a bio load......if you add more amonia to your tank then it can handle.....it creates a "cycle" or "mini cycle" thus having to pretty much start from scratch.........it is very hard on fish.
patience is the key here:)
ok that could be the reason and i do blame myself for being a bit too impatient adding too many fish at a time even though i added a new fish about once a week and if i wanted to start over again how should i approach it? if all my fish are going to die and it's starting to look like that do i just wait till they die and then let my tank keep cycling with just hermit crabs and if so when can i add a fish cause my reading's show 0's?
reefwars
03-19-2012, 04:48 PM
ok that could be the reason and i do blame myself for being a bit too impatient adding too many fish at a time even though i added a new fish about once a week and if i wanted to start over again how should i approach it? if all my fish are going to die and it's starting to look like that do i just wait till they die and then let my tank keep cycling with just hermit crabs and if so when can i add a fish cause my reading's show 0's?
thas ok and its quite common just about everyone who starts a tank does the same its more affected to small tanks so yours would be hit a bit harder then a 100g tank with the same fish.
if you are just showing a small amount of amonia i would do a water change , since your in edmonton i would look into getting rid of the scooter.
if your tank has been runnig for 2 mths you should be ok with the clowns provided you make sure your amonia is gone.
theres a number of things you can use for amonia i like water changes and prime:)
test for amonia reguarily while the tank is young if the test doesnt quite look yellow then its prosbaly not:P
daniella3d
03-19-2012, 05:09 PM
How long have you got those fish? because they could also be infected with some parasites, thus the fast breathing.
At first I thought you had those fish for a while but it seem not that you added some fish recently? since the wrasse was the one who died, when was it added?
If your fish are not looking better and they are breathing fast, they could have some disease or parasite. YOu may have to treat those fish. What was the wrasse looking like when it died? was it sort of whitish or with a film on it? did it have any white dots?
I think in your case it is either something in the water from the tap water or a disease/parasites. The first one is easy to cure with carbon and water change but the second will need a treatment.
If all your fish die from a parasite, you will need to leave the tank without fish for 2 months minimum, or else every new fish is going to be contaminated as well.
ok that could be the reason and i do blame myself for being a bit too impatient adding too many fish at a time even though i added a new fish about once a week and if i wanted to start over again how should i approach it? if all my fish are going to die and it's starting to look like that do i just wait till they die and then let my tank keep cycling with just hermit crabs and if so when can i add a fish cause my reading's show 0's?
I don't think there we're any disease on any of the fish. No small white spots. All the fins and scales are normal. Even the color of the fish look fine. They dead fish we're a bit slimy though and i assume that's normal.
Is it possible to have a mini cycle happen while having parameters unchanged? During a mini cycle am i suppose to see some sort of spike?
subman
03-19-2012, 09:31 PM
could he be getting false ammonia readings because of the de-chlorinating drops?
daniella3d
03-19-2012, 10:56 PM
the fish breathing fast can only be caused by either a parasites, lack of oxygen from having their gills attacked or burned by ammonia or another chimical.
A fish breathing fast is never a good sign if it is not due to a temporary stress like when a fish is scared.
I don't think there we're any disease on any of the fish. No small white spots. All the fins and scales are normal. Even the color of the fish look fine. They dead fish we're a bit slimy though and i assume that's normal.
Is it possible to have a mini cycle happen while having parameters unchanged? During a mini cycle am i suppose to see some sort of spike?
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