Need Help With Sailfin tang URGENT

[TaioneReefer]

Hey guys,

So I recently decided to treat all my fish with copper as my naso tang caught it and died.

Now I woke up seeing this sailfin tang laying and breathing really fast.
it was fine, with no ich and all, but just decided to treat it anyways so later on there wont be another ich breakout.

first thing i noticed was : colour fade on the black bars, and now its looking like this :
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/xilley/IMG-20120314-00423.jpg

anyone know why its getting worse after treatment? (treating with cupramine) at 0.5 tested with seachem test kit

please give me some input.

Thanks

[Flash]

1 don't treat with copper.... 2... if a fish is sick, likely a bad idea to stress it out worse. leave it alone for a day or so with the lights off and see if it comes back.

[daniella3d]

I see some liverock in there. I hope you realize that this liverock is going to be contaminated with copper and you're not going to be able to keep any invert with that liverock.

Have you checked ammonia in your water? that can burn a fish gills.

You can't even use Seachem Prime with Cupramine because it will bind with the amine in Cupramine and release the copper into a toxic form, so water changes are the way to go to remove ammonia.

I prefer hyposalinity as it is less harsh especially for ick. Going with Cupramine is ok when there is something nasty like velvet that require a fast mean of action.

You might want to remove the Cupramine and continue the treatment with something less harsh, like Paraguard. This is easy on the fish and also treat bacterial infection on the fish.

I would do a large water change and continue treatement with Paraguard. Also test for ammonia, this is important as ammonia is very toxic at high PH and high temperature.

[Nano]

+1 on the above, copper should never be used except maybe in a qt tank with no Live rock. odds are by adding copper you could have very easily killed off your live rock as well as the ich.

[TaioneReefer]

I see some liverock in there. I hope you realize that this liverock is going to be contaminated with copper and you're not going to be able to keep any invert with that liverock.

Have you checked ammonia in your water? that can burn a fish gills.

You can't even use Seachem Prime with Cupramine because it will bind with the amine in Cupramine and release the copper into a toxic form, so water changes are the way to go to remove ammonia.

I prefer hyposalinity as it is less harsh especially for ick. Going with Cupramine is ok when there is something nasty like velvet that require a fast mean of action.

You might want to remove the Cupramine and continue the treatment with something less harsh, like Paraguard. This is easy on the fish and also treat bacterial infection on the fish.

I would do a large water change and continue treatement with Paraguard. Also test for ammonia, this is important as ammonia is very toxic at high PH and high temperature.

yeup those are just base liverocks, not using them again.

I will get on the water change now, but is this just simply ich? or is there something else this fish got

[TaioneReefer]

+1 on the above, copper should never be used except maybe in a qt tank with no Live rock. odds are by adding copper you could have very easily killed off your live rock as well as the ich.


J&L told me to use a bit of liverock.. weird

and if the ichs killed, why is this fish getting worse?

[Flash]

internal parasite?

[TaioneReefer]

internal parasite?

nooo.. now what do i have to treat it with?

I changed the water and i dropped the salinity by a bit

[mws]

This looks like black Ich, which is a turbellarian worm.It's treated with freshwater dip, formalin bath, cleaner species, reduction of salinity to 1.o12 for 7-10 days. You have to pick one teatment what will work for you. The less stressful for this sick fish would be slow salinity reduction in QT.Worms will die and fall off.

[TaioneReefer]

i m afraid freshwater dip would be too much stress atm, as it dont look too good already.

so I m going to go with hyposalinity.
how much should i drop it by everyday?
its currently at 1.019 just below 1.020

[mws]

i m afraid freshwater dip would be too much stress atm, as it dont look too good already.

so I m going to go with hyposalinity.
how much should i drop it by everyday?
its currently at 1.019 just below 1.020

I think I replaced 1gal of tank water with fresh water of the same tem. every 2-3 hours, it was a long time ago so you better search the net for accuracy.
Watch your ammonia carefully as I remember it had been a problem for me in a QT.

[TaioneReefer]

got it, will keep you guys updated

thanks

[daniella3d]

before going into hyposalinity, make sure you don't have copper left in that tank because combining hypo and copper is not good.

Using liverock in a QT is ok as long as you use something that is safe for the biofilter. The problem with using copper and liverock is that rock is going to be contaminated and not useable for any invert, at least for a very long time, if not forever.

Use a good refractometer and keep salinity to 1.009. You can lower the salinity quite fast, but raising it should be very slow, no more than 0.003 points per day.

got it, will keep you guys updated

thanks

[TaioneReefer]

at 12pm i dipped the fish in FW and now it looks somewhat better.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd474/xilley/IMG-20120314-00427.jpg

[daniella3d]

Definitly look better! good :)

[TaioneReefer]

should i dip it again tomorrow?
or just continue with the hyposalinity

[subman]

wow that's a major improvement. I would say wait and see but I'm no expert.

[TaioneReefer]

wow that's a major improvement. I would say wait and see but I'm no expert.

i agree.. i was surprised it worked so well

[daniella3d]

Your fish should now be in the 1.009 salinity so I would leave it at that and not do another dip with freshwater if he's getting better. No need to stress it more and what ever was on it is probably dead or going to completely die with the hyposalinity.

If you see that he's getting worse with time, then do another one, but for now I would leave it at this hyposalinity alone. He looks fat and healthy for now. Good that he was so fat to begin with, as he has good energy reserve to face this.

i agree.. i was surprised it worked so well

[TaioneReefer]

got it, i will leave it at this for now, and update you guys in a couple days !

Thanks guys