NEWS: "Man's home 'invaded' by government search of fish tanks" CBC news

[Ross]

A Surrey BC home was searched as it was potential grow op, but all they found were aquariums.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/mans-home-invaded-government-search-fish-tanks-092801612.html

[TaioneReefer]

haha another one of those stories.
especially with the new smart meters.
but sucks that he had to pay 800 to get it inspected?

[sphelps]

Residents first get a written notice that says if they don’t consent to a search within 48 hours, the team will seek a warrant.

That's interesting, personally I think I'd let them seek a warrant, I didn't know using a certain amount of hydro is considered probable cause for a search warrant.

[Gripenfelter]

I have a friend who is an electrician. He made me change all my wiring around because it was illegal apparently.

[reefwars]

I wonder now long before they hit my place LOL I'd make thm get a warrant as well just cause I'm difficult LOL:pl

[globaldesigns]

Another reason I have my aquarium upstairs in the bonus room. Yeah, my house glows like a grow op, but you can see the aquarium from the sidewalk. If I get a visit, it will be from a blind cop!

[sphelps]

It's just how they did it. If a officer showed up at my door politely saying there have been some reports regarding constant lighting and electricity blah blah blah and he asked if he just take a look around I would no issue. But if I got a freaking letter saying I have no choice in the matter and some inspection van and RCMP are going to show up and tape my house up while the neighbors watch... I don't think freaking think so. They'd be talking to my lawyer is minutes, I don't think it's quite that legal, I never signed any document when I set up our electric that would allow searches based on consumption.

[rastaangel]

HAHAHAHAHA atleast im not the only one!!!!!
When I upgraded my tank to 2-250wMH w/ 4 PC lighting from 2 48" T5s, doubled up on heaters, got a bigger skimmer, and tripled my flow my power useage almost doubled in a month. Combine that with buying my own RO/DI unit and not buying bottled water my water useage increased by over 40%.
I had 2 police officers knock on my door with 2 more outside looking around... They said that there has been such a massive increase in useage and there had been reports of excessivly bright lights from my windows that they suppected I had a grow op in my place. I laughed in there face and just said ill show you why! I showed the 2 officers to my tank and explained everything simple stupid for them.
I know I could have made a big deal out of it and told them to get a warrent but I didnt wanna start anything and it was over in 30 min and havnt heard anything since and that was over a year ago.
Altho I can see there point as kindersley has a MASSIVE drug issue

[DanG]

I used to live in a high rise apartment building downtown, I could see my place from a half a kilometer away. Everyone asked how I could tell which was mine. It's easy, it's the one that's glowing.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

The South Surrey guy is a friend from BCAquaria and his tanks are fw. Imagine if they were sw. Granted he has a lot of tanks...

I had another friend who invited his neighbour who was in the RCMP over just to show him the tanks and metal halide lights in order to hopefully avoid these kinds of surprise visits from Big Brother.

[SauceBoss]

Reading through the entire article, I would be lying to say I wasn't disgusted

[Veng68]

Lucky he was not in Mission......... a couple years ago an inspection cost 10K now I hear it's 5K......... a lot of innocent people were caught up in that.

Cheers,
Vic

[The Grizz]

Good thing I don't live there with all my tanks, indoor pool, full suit in basement and running my shop they would be at my gate every month AND WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A WARRENT. They shouldn't have the right to force repairs especially if he was not financially able to do so. Notify his insurance company so if his house burns do to an electrical fire he has no coverage. Goverment just keeps finding ways to invade our privacy hence why I have a big gate, lots of dogs an well lets say something a little extra.

[Milad]

I want to help this guy out get some LEDs! When i got my tank up with MH, I always wondered/joked that someone was going to come knock on my door because of all the light and huge increase in electrical bills! Its interesting that it actually happened to someone!

[FitoPharmer]

Wow, when you read the fire cheif saying: “When we get in there, the operators have pulled out all the plants and left,” said Garis. He also said he can’t remember a single inspection that led to criminal charges.

“Possibly in the early days there were charges, but I’m not aware of any,” said Garis.

It is really pointing towards a cash grab, and away from caring about public safety.

I should also add I have had a very nice officer check out my tank on a report that it was a grow op. He agreed that anyone considering a grow op in their hallway, where my tank was, would not have the IQ to grow plants. You could see the tanks from my front step.

[mark]

2253 homes so far? Amazed I haven't hear more outrage with this.

[troni]

I'm shocked that your all shocked. It didn't start with this but its the biggest example..."the harper government."

[Spiny]

I'm shocked that your all shocked. It didn't start with this but its the biggest example..."the harper government."

The conservative government formed a minority government in 2006, this program dates from 2005. Plus, the RCMP acted upon as the result of a complaint from the city. You can check your political agenda at the door; that kind of comments will ultimately get this interesting thread locked.

[Myka]

I didn't know using a certain amount of hydro is considered probable cause for a search warrant.

It is in BC. BC is "Bud Capital" ya know. ;)

[sphelps]

It is in BC. BC is "Bud Capital" ya know. ;)
Doesn't matter. From an article:

It was well before Fall of 1997, and police were trying to collect evidence to bust "Bob Erb". When they came up empty-handed, officers likely decided it was time to make something up. So they made a call on BC Hydro, and asked how much power Erb was using. Police then went to a JP with the claim that Erb's usage was abnormally high and secured a warrant to bust him in August.

When Erb discovered how they had obtained the warrant, he called up BC Hydro himself, and got a very different story.

"The BC Hydro manager said he could not tell by expenditure whether it was a grow operation or not," says Erb, "he also said they don't speculate to the police about that. He told me that every family is different. Some families have all the lights on outside all night long, a hot tub, powertools, a shop, while others don't?"

The Hydro manager was also prepared to testify in court. But Erb's case didn't make it that far. His case was dropped in November of 1998. Erb wanted to go to court to reveal how police sometimes lie to obtain warrants.

"I was denied the right to a preliminary hearing to cross examine the officer," Bob Erb recalls. "We know that the charges were stayed, but we don't know why. My lawyer was the former prosecutor. Now he won't tell me why the charges were stayed. He has left town and is not returning my calls."

More astute police officers might claim that they skirted the boundaries of the property and did not see a hot tub, a shop or anything else to indicate an unusually high power usage. According to John Conroy, it still may not be enough for police to justify their warrants in court. He recalls a case known as "Regina vs Wayne Hiney," in which Stanley Tessmer appeared as counsel.

"Police said no other visible signs of consumption were evident that would account for elevated use of hydro," Conroy says, "But the officer also admitted that her view of the yard was obstructed, so the officer may not have been able to see if there was a hot tub."

As a result of Tessmer's cross-examination, the police claim that Hiney had unusually high hydro consumption was struck from evidence.

Basically a warrant obtained for the bases of high usage along will not hold up in court and chances are getting a warrant based on that alone is no longer possible.

The hole letter thing has nothing to do with busting operations, it's a simple means of disrupting them. If a grower got the letter they would likely move their plants rather than taking any risks.

[Reef Pilot]

In BC, there is little point catching and prosecuting grow-opers. Even if they get a conviction (very hard with current laws and constitution), judges will not give them much if any jail time. Only winners are the lawyers and people in the system, and just adds to our govt costs.

Best they can do is disrupt them, and go after landlords, which they are trying to do.

[Lampshade]

Here's a high profile one from 2010:
http://www.bccla.org/pressreleases/Arkinstall.html

The appellants refused to let a team of fire safety inspectors enter their home so long as they insisted on being accompanied by police officers who did not have a warrant. As a result, power to their home was disconnected.

D. Summary of Section 8 Analysis

[93] While the impugned inspections in this case are regulatory in nature, they constitute a considerable intrusion into an individual’s reasonable expectation of privacy. While there is a requirement under s. 19.3(1) of the SSA that there be “reasonable grounds” for an inspection, this requirement is not sufficient to render the searches reasonable under s. 8. An administrative warrant is feasible, serves a beneficial function, and should be required. Requiring an administrative warrant in these circumstances protects the individual’s expectation of privacy, and it does so without undermining the public interest in public safety. To obtain an administrative warrant it will be necessary to show that “reasonable grounds” exist to believe that permit conditions, or codes or standards established by regulation, are not being complied with. This Court’s decision in Bichel stands for the narrow proposition that in the regulatory context of a minimally intrusive spot-check search in which a warrant would serve no function, a warrant is not required. Accordingly, Bichel is of limited application on this appeal.

So you can ask for a warrant, but still a PITA because they can get one, and will probably make your life more difficult since you made theirs. Would you hire the happy nice inspector after having to go get a warrant? I had my whole tank inspected when building it in wall.... but I'm sure if you went through any house with a fine tooth comb, even brand new, you could fine something, and would be charged for the inspection either way.

[Dyspnea]

I would have told them too get the warrant, It's unlikely a judge would grant one without further evidence.

Seem like this program targets the law biding rather than criminals, the "professionals" normally illegally bypass the power meters and steal the power so they can't be monitored as easily, and don't have to pay for power.

I wonder how many home farmers, mechanics and wood workers they have tagged as well.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

So basically if you letthem in before a warrent is issued, you may be allowed to only let LE in and not inspectors.

this way you can avoid examination etc costs.

all they want is to make sure you aren't a Grow Op, so refuse the inspectors in at the time you voulenteer your time.

[mikebike]

Hi Folks,
Im mikebike/Mike Baynes from that CBC story

http://tinyurl.com/mikebikeonCBC

I post some information about myself in the photos link.
I thought the video will give you a chance to see me live<G>
and my fishroom.

Mike in South Surrey

[lockrookie]

hey mike welcome to canreef

[Jeff_]

Looks like Grow op operators are following the trend and switching over to LEDs as well :razz: News from Today (http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Police+bust+sophisticated+marijuana+grow/6267390/story.html)