Whats wrong with my Clams?

[MarkoD]

Ive had these for over 6 months now and they were doing great. always fully open. both under halides and LEDs

all corals and fish are fine.

in the last couple of weeks, this has happen. They seem to be closing up. anyone knows whats going on?


http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-02-29at43618PM.png


http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-02-29at43625PM.png

[mr_alberta]

Its a pinched mantle. A freshwater dip can help with that.

[fishytime]

Its a pinched mantle. A freshwater dip can help with that.

pinched mantle on two different clams at the same time??....seems unlikely....how old is your tank now mang?......whats your fish list ATM?

[MarkoD]

pinched mantle on two different clams at the same time??....seems unlikely....how old is your tank now mang?......whats your fish list ATM?

tank is a year old.

fish:
regal tang
black shoulder tang
powder brown tang
foxface rabbitfish
solaris wrasse
cleaner wrasse
mystery wrasse
mandarin goby pair
clarki clown pair

the only fish i ever seen picking at the clams is the clearner wrasse, but i double he's doing any harm

[MarkoD]

also, seems like this one is slightly more open at night, but still nowhere near where it was 3 weeks ago

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-02-29at43625PM.png[/QUOTE]

[marie]

If I had to guess I would say that one of your fish is developing a taste for clams. Try putting a strawberry basket or some other sort of protective cover over one of the clams and see if it opens up again

[MarkoD]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that

[Nate]

Totally a fish if opening up more at night.

[Proteus]

How long ago was it you changed your lights

[MarkoD]

How long ago was it you changed your lights

3 months ago

[Proteus]

Well than that's not it lol

Try feeding some mussels and see if it take attn off of the clams. If it is a fish doing it

I find myself if I skip out on mussels my Cbb will eye up one of my clams

[sphelps]

I saw you haven't changed any water in 6 months....

[MarkoD]

Ok so?

Why would they be closed?

[Nano]

not enough nutrients. thats why everyone says its still good to do WC to replace the elements

[sphelps]

Ok so?

Why would they be closed?

I don't know the science behind it but I've always changed my water, never had a problem with clams. The fact the issue is with more than one clam and nothing regarding lighting has recently changed it pretty much leaves water chemistry.

[MarkoD]

But I keep all my perameters in check and I have far more sensitive livestock that's doing just fine. I dose my tank daily

[Flash]

what are you dosing?

[fishytime]

I think that clams are probably one of the most sensitive things that we can put in our tanks.....they are somewhat like a sea squirt.....they filter large amounts of water through themselves in a day....not as much as a sea squirt but still enough that the water quality needs to be excellent.......stability is key.....I dont recommend to any customer to put a clam in their tank until the tank is about a year old.....the first year of a tanks life is usually a very unstable environment.....the excitement of a new tank usually brings a lot of new additions, which in turn causes a perpetual teetering of the balance of the tank.....generally speaking the new additions tend to slow down after a year or so and the tank has a chance to catch up to all the "teetering" and mature......

[MarkoD]

But why all of the sudden? I've had them in there for so long. And I've seen noticeable growth.

I check my perameters with Hanna checkers. I'm certain that phosphates and nitrates are at 0

[MarkoD]

I dose kalk through top off and the separately dose calcium, alk, and mag when necessary

[fishytime]

those aren't the only elements and trace minerals that our critters use:wink: .....stuff like strontium, potassium, iodine and a host of others will slowly get used up.....if your not adding these things and not doing regular water changes, then these minerals and elements will never be replenished....

[MarkoD]

So how big of a water change do I need to make an impact. I've got 250 gallons total.

[MarkoD]

actually i just remembered. i did a 10 gallon water change about a week and half ago. few days after i noticed the clams close up. it didnt change anything.

also, this wouldnt really explain why they would open slightly more at night

[sphelps]

So you wait 6 months, then do a water change, then all of a sudden clams start acting up. Stability sounds like an issue unless there's something else you've forgotten about?

[MarkoD]

So you wait 6 months, then do a water change, then all of a sudden clams start acting up. Stability sounds like an issue unless there's something else you've forgotten about?

no. i wait 6 months, clams start acting up. i do a 10 gallon water change. no change except at night (which was happening before and after the minor waterchange)

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

From reading all the posts in this thread and seeing that everything seems in check (but still think you need to make a bigger and more often water changes as you said 10glns for a 240glns tank meaning 0.05% total volume)
In my opinion and past experience I think some or one of your fish has acquired a taste for your clams as you mentioned that they seem to open up at night when fish are not around (as some folks already mentioned)

[reefwars]

is it possible it was the moorish idol since it started weeks ago and he only died like a week ago or so??? theyve been known to pick at clams, i would still go with maries idea with the basket and since your a photographer is it possible to video the tank to catch the culprit maybe in the nighttime??:)

[TimT]

If your nitrates are at 0 that is one problem. Clams do need some ammonia/nitrate to fuel their zoozanthellae.

Also check your alk, low alk can cause those symptoms.

Another option is pyramidellid snails, check in the scutes for them and under the clam, around the byssal opening. The snails are generally nocturnal unless there is a heavy infestation.

Clams from Vietnam are also not the healthiest. They tend to carry perkinsus aka pinched mantle disease.

Cleaner wrasses are also known to go after the iridophores on clams. My suspicion is it's a combination of the cleaner wrasse and no nitrate for food.

Cheers,
Tim

[MarkoD]

Can't find a cover for the clams with holes that the cleaner wrasse can't swim through

[Proteus]

Local pet stores have mesh breeder boxes that suction to th glass. If you can move the clams. Put them in there at top of tank

[MarkoD]

i dont think moving them would really work for me. plus i've seen those mesh breeder boxes and they seem to be too small to even fit one of my clams

[fishytime]

The little baskets that strawberries come in work great for caging off things

[MarkoD]

The little baskets that strawberries come in work great for caging off things

But the holes are big enough for a cleaner wrasse, right?

That's the only fish I've ever seem picking at a clam

[fishytime]

Strawberry basket lined with enkamat?

[fishytime]

Strawberry basket lined with enkamat or eggcrate?

[reefwars]

make a cover from the same plastic mesh others make algae scubbers from the holes are maybe 1/8th of an inch:P

[sphelps]

no. i wait 6 months, clams start acting up. i do a 10 gallon water change. no change except at night (which was happening before and after the minor waterchange)

Your previous posts suggested the change was done prior to the clams acting up, hence my previous assumption. Keep in mind a 10% change after 6 months won't have much effect, you can't rule out this issue from that. You can search day and night for some mysterious predator but clams don't have the ability to reason, it's not closing up all day because it's more likely to be attacked then. Clams sense light and touch, they close up temporarily with sudden changes in those senses. The clams are stressed making them more sensitive to light is all.

My honest guess is months of neglect among other things. It was probably a combination of things from the tank being fairly new to a dramatic light change and then the constant downfall of water chemistry from lack of maintenance. In the end the clams have finally had enough and are showing signs of stress which may or may not be reversible. Your best shot is to eliminate the more potential issues with IMO doesn't include moving them or building cages. First check for pyramid snails, these are really the only predator that could cause such issues, if you have them they are easily spotted on the clams foot. Daily water changes of around 20% for the next week or so should slowly bring up strontium, iodine and anything else they require. Calcium and Alkalinity should be careful monitored and even verified to be certain readings are accurate. The water movement around the clams should be moderate and indirect in enhance their ability to feed. Cutting your light back might also aid in recovery as well removing any aggressive type of chemical filtration. Finally I would try intermittent skimming and dosing a small amount of phytoplankton.

[MarkoD]

Your previous posts suggested the change was done prior to the clams acting up, hence my previous assumption. Keep in mind a 10% change after 6 months won't have much effect, you can't rule out this issue from that. You can search day and night for some mysterious predator but clams don't have the ability to reason, it's not closing up all day because it's more likely to be attacked then. Clams sense light and touch, they close up temporarily with sudden changes in those senses. The clams are stressed making them more sensitive to light is all.

My honest guess is months of neglect among other things. It was probably a combination of things from the tank being fairly new to a dramatic light change and then the constant downfall of water chemistry from lack of maintenance. In the end the clams have finally had enough and are showing signs of stress which may or may not be reversible. Your best shot is to eliminate the more potential issues with IMO doesn't include moving them or building cages. First check for pyramid snails, these are really the only predator that could cause such issues, if you have them they are easily spotted on the clams foot. Daily water changes of around 20% for the next week or so should slowly bring up strontium, iodine and anything else they require. Calcium and Alkalinity should be careful monitored and even verified to be certain readings are accurate. The water movement around the clams should be moderate and indirect in enhance their ability to feed. Cutting your light back might also aid in recovery as well removing any aggressive type of chemical filtration. Finally I would try intermittent skimming and dosing a small amount of phytoplankton.

How would pyramid snails just appear over night? I haven't added anything that could bring them in. Just fish

[sphelps]

How would pyramid snails just appear over night? I haven't added anything that could bring them in. Just fish
It's just something eliminate, I agree it's not likely the issue.

This what they look like encase you didn't already know.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/jf/images/tn_IMG_2889s_jpg.jpg

[MarkoD]

I've googled it and no sign of those in my tank. And honestly 50 gallon water changes is not something I can do. I'm going to rule out fish first

[sphelps]

And honestly 50 gallon water changes is not something I can do
Why not?

[Proteus]

If not then sell me your clams. I'll give u 20 bucks being there damaged and all

[MarkoD]

Why not?

Because I have jobs. I can't be sitting at home doing a 50 gallon water change daily.

[Aquattro]

Because I have jobs. I can't be sitting at home doing a 50 gallon water change daily.

Why would you do a 50g water change daily?

[MarkoD]

If not then sell me your clams. I'll give u 20 bucks being there damaged and all

No thanks

[Proteus]

Because I have jobs. I can't be sitting at home doing a 50 gallon water change daily.

How bout weekly

[MarkoD]

50 gallons is 20 percent

Your previous posts suggested the change was done prior to the clams acting up, hence my previous assumption. Keep in mind a 10% change after 6 months won't have much effect, you can't rule out this issue from that. You can search day and night for some mysterious predator but clams don't have the ability to reason, it's not closing up all day because it's more likely to be attacked then. Clams sense light and touch, they close up temporarily with sudden changes in those senses. The clams are stressed making them more sensitive to light is all.

My honest guess is months of neglect among other things. It was probably a combination of things from the tank being fairly new to a dramatic light change and then the constant downfall of water chemistry from lack of maintenance. In the end the clams have finally had enough and are showing signs of stress which may or may not be reversible. Your best shot is to eliminate the more potential issues with IMO doesn't include moving them or building cages. First check for pyramid snails, these are really the only predator that could cause such issues, if you have them they are easily spotted on the clams foot. Daily water changes of around 20% for the next week or so should slowly bring up strontium, iodine and anything else they require. Calcium and Alkalinity should be careful monitored and even verified to be certain readings are accurate. The water movement around the clams should be moderate and indirect in enhance their ability to feed. Cutting your light back might also aid in recovery as well removing any aggressive type of chemical filtration. Finally I would try intermittent skimming and dosing a small amount of phytoplankton.

[sphelps]

Because I have jobs. I can't be sitting at home doing a 50 gallon water change daily.

You're looking at less than an hour a day for one week. You probably spend more time on this site complaining about spelling. You'll also spend more time trying to capture imaginary fish in the act. It's becoming more clear you're just looking for the easiest answer which I think is selling the clams, I'd take the offer, I'd never pay that for half dead clams.

[MarkoD]

You're looking at less than an hour a day for one week. You probably spend more time on this site complaining about spelling. You'll also spend more time trying to capture imaginary fish in the act. It's becoming more clear you're just looking for the easiest answer which I think is selling the clams, I'd take the offer, I'd never pay that for half dead clams.

Well aren't you just a know it all. Thanks for the advice.

[Proteus]

Well the reality is that this is a hobby we choose and in doing so you accept a responsibility to these animal we keep. Like parenting we would not say we don't have time.
Sufficient advise has been given now the balls in your court

[MarkoD]

Well the reality is that this is a hobby we choose and in doing so you accept a responsibility to these animal we keep. Like parenting we would not say we don't have time.
Sufficient advise has been given now the balls in your court

Just because I don't adopt your technique of doing weekly water changes doesn't mean I dont care about the live stock I keep. I spent money on it and I intend to keep it alive. Doing 50 gallon water changes daily for a week is not realistic for me, for more reasons than just the time commitment.

Lol and no I don't think keeping fish is not like parenting a human child.

[Proteus]

I don't agree with daily but def bi weekly

[Aquattro]

You're looking at less than an hour a day for one week. You probably spend more time on this site complaining about spelling. You'll also spend more time trying to capture imaginary fish in the act. It's becoming more clear you're just looking for the easiest answer which I think is selling the clams, I'd take the offer, I'd never pay that for half dead clams.

Ding, we have a winner! :)

[MarkoD]

I've had the tank setup for a year now without doing regular water changes.

I've got no problem keeping any corals or fish.

My sps grow faster than I ever expected.

None of my corals are showing any signs of there being anything wrong with the water quality or perameters.

[Proteus]

20 bucks is a small price to pay if they do die my Cbb will have a full belly

[sphelps]

Keep in mind the daily is only temporary. The tank hasn't seen any changes for 6 months so in a sense it's like you're dealing with a contamination except it's a lack off rather than excess. The fastest way to correct such issues is large water changes however doing too much too quickly can have negative effects hence 20% daily for a week sounds about right to me. However the other options include 10% daily for longer or larger changes like 40-50% once a week.

In all honesty performing water changes shouldn't be difficult, if 50 gallons is too much for you too handle a smaller tank would have been more piratical. You're essentially setting yourself up for failure as I would assume your goal is to fully stock that tank. 250 gallons of healthy livestock is a huge investment in both time and money, what would happen if down the road something happened? Like say your clams all spawned (assuming you'll have more than two by then). Not being able to change large amounts of water quickly will cost you your tank.

[MarkoD]

So be it. If I fail and everything does then I'll have an expensive fowlr and I'll get myself a clown trigger.

I really don't want a lecture. I set this tank up the way I think works best for me and that's it. Whether you think it's right or wrong doesn't concern me.

[Proteus]

I have a 35 gall w a 10 gal sump if you want. Lol

[sphelps]

Then don't ask for help or peoples opinions cause obviously everything is just fine in your mind.

[MarkoD]

Then don't ask for help or peoples opinions cause obviously everything is just fine in your mind.

Ok have a nice day

[Proteus]

You ever thought about trying goldfish

[blacknife]

Even goldfish do better with regular water changes.

[jorjef]

So be it. If I fail and everything does then I'll have an expensive fowlr and I'll get myself a clown trigger.

I really don't want a lecture. I set this tank up the way I think works best for me and that's it. Whether you think it's right or wrong doesn't concern me.


Holy doodles don't be so stubborn! You're getting some pretty sound advise. You don't need to take it word for word but to do nothing is a sure recipe for the clams to die.....

[MarkoD]

Suggestions would be welcome if someone knew what the issue was.
I was expecting someone to know why they're closed and then offer a solution.

Not offer 5 different solutions to be done at once.

So I'm going to do them one at a time and first I'm going to try and rule out a fish picking at it.

I just find it hard to believe that these clams are fine for 6+ months and then one day they just decide its no longer good enough at the same time. While nothing else in the tank is effected

[Proteus]

Anyone who mistreats their pets buy not meeting the minimal standards to support life should not be keeping them

And yes clams are pets

[MarkoD]

The reason I chose a large tank with a large water volume is to eliminate drastic swings and water changes. Water conditions don't change at the snap of a finger. If the water conditions were deteriorating, it would be a gradual process and I would have noticed it.

[Proteus]

I just find it hard to believe that these clams are fine for 6+ months and then one day they just decide its no longer good enough at the same time. While nothing else in the tank is effected

Clams are not coral or fish

[MarkoD]

Anyone who mistreats their pets buy not meeting the minimal standards to support life should not be keeping them

And yes clams are pets

And who are you to say I am mistreating my pets and not providing minimal standards to support life? You know nothing about what I do with my tank and the extents I go to to maintain my tank.

[sphelps]

OK Mark lets examine the plausibility of fish picking on them. First what fish do you have in the tank?

[MarkoD]

From first page

tank is a year old.

fish:
regal tang
black shoulder tang
powder brown tang
foxface rabbitfish
solaris wrasse
cleaner wrasse
mystery wrasse
mandarin goby pair
clarki clown pair

the only fish i ever seen picking at the clams is the clearner wrasse, but i double he's doing any harm

[Proteus]

And who are you to say I am mistreating my pets and not providing minimal standards to support life? You know nothing about what I do with my tank and the extents I go to to maintain my tank.

Last I checked no waterchange and clams are dying

I've wasted enough time on this thread. Enough time to do a waterchange

Chow

[sphelps]

Cleaner wrasses are known to be problematic with clams. Too bad I didn't notice that earlier.

[Flash]

fox face
cleaner wrasse
and your mystery wrasse

[MarkoD]

Last I checked no waterchange and clams are dying

I've wasted enough time on this thread. Enough time to do a waterchange

Chow

Yeah well i have a job and I'm at work. I don't have the luxury to just get up off the computer and go do a water change.

I don't understand why you guys can't accept the fact that a tank can work without frequent water changes. Maybe it's time to think outside of the box and accept alternative methods. I strongly believe that water perameters are not the cause of my clam problems. Because the problem arose overnight and wasn't gradual

[MarkoD]

Cleaner wrasses are known to be problematic with clams. Too bad I didn't notice that earlier.

Lol thats what the discussion was with trying to figure something out to cover the clams so that the cleaner wrasse couldn't swim through

[sphelps]

Lol thats what the discussion was with trying to figure something out to cover the clams so that the cleaner wrasse couldn't swim through

Yeap I see that now, I just never noticed any reference to a cleaner wrasse before. All your other fish are not known for clam picking. I don't think a cage is the answer though, you'll have to ultimately choose between clams and the wrasse, if he eats well catching him and putting him in the sump might be a good temporary option.

[reefgirl189]

Lol thats what the discussion was with trying to figure something out to cover the clams so that the cleaner wrasse couldn't swim through

This might be an odd idea but could you get a pasta strainer to place over them? You'd proably need to weigh it down with a rock or something. OR maybe try lining the inside of a strawberry basket with some patio door screening.

I think because the change was indeed so drastic that it's more likely one of your fish has developed a sudden taste for the clams.

I do think they could benefit from a large WC though... even if you can only do 10 gallons a day for a week or so it may help. It certainly couldn't hurt anything anyway...

[MarkoD]

Luckily it's the dumbest fish I have. It swims right into the trap at the first sight of food. I'm gonna take it out and put it in the fuge to see if there's any change

[naesco]

Looked at your fish list.
Didn't you have a moorish idol?
If so where is it?

[TimT]

Catching the cleaner wrasse is a good idea. While your at the cleaner wrasse keep an eye on the foxface. I have had them nibble clams mantles in the past. I once had a rabbitfish that ate Xenia as well.

[MarkoD]

Looked at your fish list.
Didn't you have a moorish idol?
If so where is it?

Got destroyed by a tank mate. Assuming it was one of the tangs. He died the next day. Happened last week.

Yeah I'll keep an eye out on the foxface.

Thanks for giving actual solutions that could help instead of jumping to "water change fixes everything"

[tim the toolman]

Keeping in mind the death of the moorish idol could it also be possible that the idol was eating a nuisance critter that is no longer being controlled in the tank? I know they thrive primarily on sponges and such, but in the wild they are also well known for eating benthic invertibrates which is a rather large spectrum of invertebrates including some which live in home aquaria. (Just a thought)

[sphelps]

Thanks for giving actual solutions that could help instead of jumping to "water change fixes everything"

Keep in mind that the clam recovery and long term survival is still reliant on water quality, clams do in fact need strontium and iodine among other elements. Best way to insure a good balance of such elements is through water changes. The previous advice was still sound, I wouldn't omit it.

[naesco]

Keep in mind that the clam recovery and long term survival is still reliant on water quality, clams do in fact need strontium and iodine among other elements. Best way to insure a good balance of such elements is through water changes. The previous advice was still sound, I wouldn't omit it.

I agree 100% with the above statement.

I would also politely add that I would lose the 'attitude' Marco if you wish to seek further assistance from experienced members of this forum.

And, please do not replace the Moorish Idol. Thanks

[Zoaelite]

I agree 100% with the above statement.

I would also politely add that I would lose the 'attitude' Marco if you wish to seek further assistance from experienced members of this forum.

And, please do not replace the Moorish Idol. Thanks

+1 on both accounts.

Out of curriosity have you ever done a water change on your system? I agree we all have our methods and what works for some might not work for others but don't bash it until you atleast try it.

I'm sure others will chime in on the fact that their tanks look the best the day after a good water change/ blow off is done, I know mine sure does.

[MarkoD]

I agree 100% with the above statement.

I would also politely add that I would lose the 'attitude' Marco if you wish to seek further assistance from experienced members of this forum.

And, please do not replace the Moorish Idol. Thanks

I'd like to politely add that I'm gonna do whatever I like with my money. If I want to buy 20 moorish idols That's my business. And I'd like to politely ask you to not reply to my threads. I dont need your "experience". Thanks

[MarkoD]

+1 on both accounts.

Out of curriosity have you ever done a water change on your system? I agree we all have our methods and what works for some might not work for others but don't bash it until you atleast try it.

I'm sure others will chime in on the fact that their tanks look the best the day after a good water change/ blow off is done, I know mine sure does.

Last water change I did was 60 gallons and everything went crazy. Yellow tang lost its mind and started attacking other fish. Which is why I got rid of it

[sphelps]

So you can change 60 gallons but not 50 :lol:

Perhaps you're not doing it right...

[MarkoD]

So you can change 60 gallons but not 50 :lol:

Not daily for a week

[MarkoD]

So you can change 60 gallons but not 50 :lol:

Perhaps you're not doing it right...

I remove everything from the sump, vaccuum all detritus and empty all the water. The replace it, all the temp to match and turn on the return pump.

I also vaccuum the sump every 2 weeks, but without a waterchange

[Reefie]

I may not be as knowledgeable as some of the Canreefers on here, but I have a bit of experience with clams.

Clams close up if there is something that is bothering them. I am going to guess it is fish related, the strawberry basket cage is a good suggestion.

Having read your post about 0 Nitrates, that's a great thing for SPS, but not for clams. Clams consume Nitrates, so having a little is beneficial to them. I've had up to 11 clams at one point, yes I got hooked on them. I am down to 5 now, there is a delicate balance to keep clams and SPS.

SPS like "CLEAN" water, while clams like "DIRTY" water. I have found that to keep both SPS and clams, you have to keep the water parameters almost perfect for the SPS while dosing Phyto and or Sponge Power to feed the clams. I've got 2 Crocea's that I've had for about a year now, got them when they were about 3" and now they're about 5"

Another thing could also be your CUC, I lost a few of my clams due to them picking at some algae that was growing on the shells. It iritates the clams when hermits or even your cleaner wrasse is picking at it's shell.

I would suggest that you do 10% water changes weekly and see if it makes a difference also. Clams like everything else we keep in our tanks prefer stability, so make small changes gradually.

[e46er]

Your one of those people who have a dog and don't clean up. The yard aren't you??
Every person in this thread has tried to help you - well except me because it's obviously a waste of time but maybe just maybe take the advice of the majority of reefers here? Especially since many of them have much nicer tank(s) than you or me?
Don't ask for advice if you don't want it
And clean your god damn pets home

[Zoaelite]

Last water change I did was 60 gallons and everything went crazy. Yellow tang lost its mind and started attacking other fish. Which is why I got rid of it

Could you please elabortate on "Crazy", if the water you are putting in is the same salinity Ca, Alk, Mg and temp you shouldn't run into any problems.

How are you drawing the connection between doing a water change and having aggression increase in your tank? I don't see a mechanism between the two, perhaps you can explain that to me.

It's your right to add 20 Morish idols to your tank if you want, you proved your fish wouldn't tolerate 1 so go ahead and lose 2 grand on being ignorant. The suggestions given here are for your tanks well being, take them as you want but don't flame others for anwsering your questions.

[MarkoD]

Thank you, you win for having the most helpful post.


I may not be as knowledgeable as some of the Canreefers on here, but I have a bit of experience with clams.

Clams close up if there is something that is bothering them. I am going to guess it is fish related, the strawberry basket cage is a good suggestion.

Having read your post about 0 Nitrates, that's a great thing for SPS, but not for clams. Clams consume Nitrates, so having a little is beneficial to them. I've had up to 11 clams at one point, yes I got hooked on them. I am down to 5 now, there is a delicate balance to keep clams and SPS.

SPS like "CLEAN" water, while clams like "DIRTY" water. I have found that to keep both SPS and clams, you have to keep the water parameters almost perfect for the SPS while dosing Phyto and or Sponge Power to feed the clams. I've got 2 Crocea's that I've had for about a year now, got them when they were about 3" and now they're about 5"

Another thing could also be your CUC, I lost a few of my clams due to them picking at some algae that was growing on the shells. It iritates the clams when hermits or even your cleaner wrasse is picking at it's shell.

I would suggest that you do 10% water changes weekly and see if it makes a difference also. Clams like everything else we keep in our tanks prefer stability, so make small changes gradually.

[MarkoD]

Your one of those people who have a dog and don't clean up. The yard aren't you??
Every person in this thread has tried to help you - well except me because it's obviously a waste of time but maybe just maybe take the advice of the majority of reefers here? Especially since many of them have much nicer tank(s) than you or me?
Don't ask for advice if you don't want it
And clean your god damn pets home

Don't have a dog. And you're implying that my tank is dirty, which it's not.

[MarkoD]

My example was an exaggeration. I don't like being told what to do. I have the ability to research and draw my own ideas. And if someone doesn't agree I don't care.
I don't know what the connection is but after a wc the tang got territorial and aggressive.

Could you please elabortate on "Crazy", if the water you are putting in is the same salinity Ca, Alk, Mg and temp you shouldn't run into any problems.

How are you drawing the connection between doing a water change and having aggression increase in your tank? I don't see a mechanism between the two, perhaps you can explain that to me.

It's your right to add 20 Morish idols to your tank if you want, you proved your fish wouldn't tolerate 1 so go ahead and lose 2 grand on being ignorant. The suggestions given here are for your tanks well being, take them as you want but don't flame others for anwsering your questions.

[Aquattro]

Oh, FFS, it's pinched mantle. Give it a FW dip every other day for a week, it'll be fine. And change some water for the poor fish.

[MarkoD]

Oh, FFS, it's pinched mantle. Give it a FW dip every other day for a week, it'll be fine. And change some water for the poor fish.

pinched mantle on both?

im sorry but i dont believe in coincidences.

but im gonna research it some more

either way, cleaner wrasse is out. literally swam right into the trap 5 seconds after putting it in, didnt even have a chance to put food in it yet

[Aquattro]

pinched mantle on both?

im sorry but i dont believe in coincidences.




Yes, both. I don't believe people are still posting here, but look!!

[Aquattro]

oh, and freshwater is free, so no cost to try it. Take the time you don't use for water changes and dip the clams...

[MarkoD]

oh, and freshwater is free, so no cost to try it. Take the time you don't use for water changes and dip the clams...

i will, just one question, whats the best way to raise the PH of ro/di water?

[Aquattro]

i will, just one question, whats the best way to raise the PH of ro/di water?

Don't. Just match temp, drop them in for 5 or 10. They close up and contain themselves

[Aquattro]

and don't damage the foot.

[Zoaelite]

pinched mantle on both?

im sorry but i dont believe in coincidences.

but im gonna research it some more

either way, cleaner wrasse is out. literally swam right into the trap 5 seconds after putting it in, didnt even have a chance to put food in it yet

No coincidence here, pinched mantle is though to be brought on by a protozoan similar to Perkinsus olseni .

Cleaner wrasses bites @ Clam----> Clam becomes stressed---> Immune system becomes compromised---> Protozoan now has the chance to grow----> Both clams get pinched mantle---> Marko does a fresh water dip---> Problem solved---> Marko is free to troll other posts on Canreef.

:razz:.

[Aquattro]

No coincidence here, pinched mantle is though to be brought on by a protozoan similar to Perkinsus olseni .

Cleaner wrasses bites @ Clam----> Clam becomes stressed---> Immune system becomes compromised---> Protozoan now has the chance to grow----> Both clams get pinched mantle---> Marko does a fresh water dip---> Problem solved---> Marko is free to troll other posts on Canreef.

:razz:.

bingo

[MarkoD]

20 min after taking out the cleaner wrasse the clams have started to open up more.

should i give it a couple to see if they recover or should i just do the dip anyway, right now?

yesterday
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-02-29at43618PM.png

today
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-03-01at43022PM.png

couple weeks ago
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss232/IvankaD/Screenshot2012-01-29at45754PM.png

[christyf5]

No coincidence here, pinched mantle is though to be brought on by a protozoan similar to Perkinsus olseni .



And since you don't do water changes, you've created quite a little breeding factory/protozoan soup. Just one or both may have been infected originally but once one got going, the second was surely to get infected.

Don't be fooled by the clam looking better after the first dip, you'll likely have to do several FW dips over the coming weeks.

[MarkoD]

And since you don't do water changes, you've created quite a little breeding factory/protozoan soup. Just one or both may have been infected originally but once one got going, the second was surely to get infected.

Don't be fooled by the clam looking better after the first dip, you'll likely have to do several FW dips over the coming weeks.

should i start now. or give it an hour to see how it responds further?

i also just dosed marine snow to see if it would stimulate them further

[Aquattro]

i also just dosed marine snow to see if it would stimulate them further

huh?? That's not going to do anything. Dip them, it does no harm and does lots of good if we're right.

[MarkoD]

huh?? That's not going to do anything. Dip them, it does no harm and does lots of good if we're right.

doesnt do harm? i just read that it could stress the clam further if it doesnt have pinched mantle.

yes i've also read that in the wild clams can be exposed to rain at low tide for hours and they survive.

im just waiting for the temp of the freshwater to match, and ill try it out with one of them

[Aquattro]

I've dipped plenty of clams and they all did fine. Leaving a parasite on them will certainly cause more stress. At this point, your clams look like they're going to die. You've got lots of ideas from everyone here, so pick one and do it.

[Reefie]

Another thing you can try:

Cut the top off a 2l clear soda bottle and drill a bunch of small holes in it so water can flow but fish cant get to the clam. Place it over the clam and see what happens.

It may help you determine if indeed it's a nipping problem that you have.

[MarkoD]

Another thing you can try:

Cut the top off a 2l clear soda bottle and drill a bunch of small holes in it so water can flow but fish cant get to the clam. Place it over the clam and see what happens.

It may help you determine if indeed it's a nipping problem that you have.

i think i've solved the problem. both clams have fully opened and neither of them is gaping.

[daniella3d]

My cleaner wrasse does not touch my clam.

I would guess that so long without a water change, their could be heavy metal build up in the water wich is killing the clam.

YOu should have your water analysed for heavy metal.

Cleaner wrasses are known to be problematic with clams. Too bad I didn't notice that earlier.

[MarkoD]

My cleaner wrasse does not touch my clam.

I would guess that so long without a water change, their could be heavy metal build up in the water wich is killing the clam.

YOu should have your water analysed for heavy metal.

clams are fine. they're fully open and no signs or degeneration

[sphelps]

My cleaner wrasse does not touch my clam

Not yet :mrgreen:

[Blom]

clams are fine. they're fully open and no signs or degeneration

So what was the cause? Was it the dip that helped?

[MarkoD]

So what was the cause? Was it the dip that helped?

I didn't dip it. I took out the cleaner wrasse and my clams are now fully open. Cant tell anything was wrong

[jorjef]

Quick QUICK CLOSE THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Borderjumper]

Quick QUICK CLOSE THE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mrgreen::mrgreen::surprise: thanks I needed that!!!!

[Ginu]

I dont know much about clams bessides the i really want one, however 20% water changes daily would be difficult to manage for a system that size...

Any chance you can divulge the secret with the clams? I want to get one and currently have a cleaner wrasse in a 34g cube, so now I'm afraid the wrasse will nip at a clam if I were to purchase one and they are pricey 60$...

[jorjef]

I dont know much about clams bessides the i really want one, however 20% water changes daily would be difficult to manage for a system that size...

Any chance you can divulge the secret with the clams? I want to get one and currently have a cleaner wrasse in a 34g cube, so now I'm afraid the wrasse will nip at a clam if I were to purchase one and they are pricey 60$...


OH SWEET JESUS HELP US. No disrespect.. I think.

[MarkoD]

Just get rid of the cleaner wrasse. They were only telling me to do water changes cuz I haven't done one in a long time

[The Grizz]

OH SWEET JESUS HELP US.

I think you and me are beyond help..........and maybe a few others to.

[daniella3d]

Not yet, not up to this day. are you saying that all cleaner wrasse attack clams?

Not yet :mrgreen:

[sphelps]

Not yet, not up to this day. are you saying that all cleaner wrasse attack clams?

Of course not, simply teasing hence my envious green face. However many in fact do eat clams, most actually develop the behavior later in life.

[Ginu]

Of course not, simply teasing hence my envious green face. However many in fact do eat clams, most actually develop the behavior later in life.

Hey my cleaner wrasse bites my arm whenever I'm in there doing stuff so anything is possible.

[whatcaneyedo]

Here is what killed all seven of the clams that I had collected over 5 years. Have you ruled them out completely? I rarely ever saw them on my clams, the species that I had must have preferred other snails. I would however see them all over the glass, sand and rocks during the day and night. Once I went clam-less and basically snail-less for several months they all disappeared and I haven't seen any in the last year.

Begin doing regular water changes, thats obvious. My other recommendations are to give them a freshwater dip, then remove them to a quarantine tank and do daily water changes on it with water from your main system. Replace the water that you remove with newly mixed saltwater. Then just wait and see if they improve.

The astrea snail in this picture is actually still alive and well in my tank a year after the clam genocide.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture1388.jpg

For nearly a week before each one died they would look like this.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture750.jpg

[daniella3d]

I only have him for 2 months so that remain to be seen. But I do feed him very well and often, like 3 to 4 times per day and each time he eats like a pig with a huge belly.

I suspect that if I was feeding my tank every other day, he would definitly try to find other food because he's a real piggy.

If he ever go after my clam I will be selling him.

Of course not, simply teasing hence my envious green face. However many in fact do eat clams, most actually develop the behavior later in life.

[MarkoD]

I haven't seen any of those snails in my tank. And today both of my clams are fully open and seem to have recovered completely. And they're both reacting normally to shadows and vibration


Here is what killed all seven of the clams that I had collected over 5 years. Have you ruled them out completely? I rarely ever saw them on my clams, the species that I had must have preferred other snails. I would however see them all over the glass, sand and rocks during the day and night. Once I went clam-less and basically snail-less for several months they all disappeared and I haven't seen any in the last year.

Begin doing regular water changes, thats obvious. My other recommendations are to give them a freshwater dip, then remove them to a quarantine tank and do daily water changes on it with water from your main system. Replace the water that you remove with newly mixed saltwater. Then just wait and see if they improve.

The astrea snail in this picture is actually still alive and well in my tank a year after the clam genocide.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture1388.jpg

For nearly a week before each one died they would look like this.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture750.jpg

[The Grizz]

Case Closed, Clams Open, Close thread......move on people .... nothing to see here............:twised:












Glad to here the clams are doing better MarkoD

[daniella3d]

I know it's been a long time, but it happened. I came home to day to see my croccea clam in pretty bad shape and watching the cleaner wrasse picking at it like crazy.

It was a model cityzen for 8 months, but today this all changed and he started to pick at my clams. I can see the croccea has quite a bit of bite marks and my beautiful maxima has 3 or 4 bit marks, all this done only today.

I cought the wrasse and put it in my nano and will give it for free to anyone who wants it and have a decent setup. Lesson learned, no more cleaner wrasse.

No the wrasse was not picking at parasites on the clams as they don't have any and it was easy to see what was going on as he was munching on my clam mantle with furious bites right in front of me.

[MarkoD]

I'm sure a water change will help

[Aquattro]

I'm sure a water change will help


How long have you been waiting for that one?? :razz:

[gregzz4]

I'm sure a water change will help
:lol:

[reefwars]

I'm sure a water change will help



+1

a water change fixes everything always....no matter what....always:twised:

[11purewater]

Nobody has a test kit for everything that makes s up synthetic salt water,but all those ingredients probably have a purpose and will get depleted.Even small water changes regularly will have benefits,the schedule and how much is up to you,just do it.And thats all i have to say about that.

[MKLKT]

I'm sure a water change will help

Combine that with the thread about fish getting sucked out through water change siphon and you've got a solution. :D

[FitoPharmer]

Yeah well i have a job and I'm at work. I don't have the luxury to just get up off the computer and go do a water change.

I don't understand why you guys can't accept the fact that a tank can work without frequent water changes. Maybe it's time to think outside of the box and accept alternative methods. I strongly believe that water perameters are not the cause of my clam problems. Because the problem arose overnight and wasn't gradual
Do you test for contamination? Or just essential elements?
Water changes are not only for adding good things back into the water.
They are for removing bad things as well.
Almost nothing going into a fish tank is "pure".

[MarkoD]

Are we still having this discussion?

It was the cleaner wrasse nipping. Thread done

[sphelps]

I'm sure a water change will help

Pretty sure she does water changes and she's smart enough to realize that when you visually see a fish eating your clams it's obvious what the problem is and doesn't need to start a wild goose chase.

Too bad about your wrasse daniella3d , does that mean it's for sale? :mrgreen:

[reefwars]

Are we still having this discussion?

It was the cleaner wrasse nipping. Thread done


could need a water chaneg;P

[gregzz4]

Not to worry Marko, at least some of us get it

For the rest, well ... http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actuarial_discussion_forum/images/smilies/oyh.gif

[reefwars]

just trying to brainstorm with you guys here over this serious problem soooo how about removing a large say "portion" of water and then idk maybe say lets "replace" with water thats not as old, i know these are new ideas but maybe it can work??

[Aquattro]

just trying to brainstorm with you guys here over this serious problem soooo how about removing a large say "portion" of water and then idk maybe say lets "replace" with water thats not as old, i know these are new ideas but maybe it can work??

That's just crazy talk!!

[reefwars]

That's just crazy talk!!



i thought it was too...see this is what happens when you dont research....silly me:redface:

[gregzz4]

That's just crazy talk!!
Really :surprise:
Where's your head at Denny ?
Go get some more coffee and come back when the fog clears

[reefwars]

Nobody has a test kit for everything that makes s up synthetic salt water,but all those ingredients probably have a purpose and will get depleted.Even small water changes regularly will have benefits,the schedule and how much is up to you,just do it.And thats all i have to say about that.


im gonna play markos best bud in this scenario...just for the next hour...maybe less lol



if no one has a test kit for everything thats in synthetic salt how do you know whats in it is beneficial??

you say all these ingredients "prob" have a purpose, id like to see how you tested that??


how do you know they get depleted if you didnt test??


how can you be sure your just not adding more potential harmful or beneficial things??


since were not testing anything anymore how can i really be sure small water changes can help me??


since were on the subject of not being able to test for things how about your top off water, how do we know theres not thing in there we cant test for??



im pro water changes.....its just sometimes i like to start ship and find out if people are just shooting out common answers or things that are generally assumed...... or if theres actually any proof.


wouldnt the salt brand have something to do with it as well....lets say IO has a bad week whos to say they "forget" to add their special blend of herbs and spices.....who would know, since we cant test??



btw who tests anymore anyways lol


this should heat things up a bit what do ya think marko??:twised::twised:

[reefwars]

i can go on about the unknown all day lol

[reefwars]

Really :surprise:
Where's your head at Denny ?
Go get some more coffee and come back when the fog clears


greg

i just changed out some water , so im thinking clearly now , sorry about my crazy idea i get caught up in the moment sometimes and forget what this is really about......being bored :P

[gregzz4]

btw who tests anymore anyways lol
Not me, right Brad ? :smile:

[reefwars]

testing discovers problems.....i like my tank problem free:P

the easy solution was to stop testing

[Proteus]

Not I. I only do water change because I don't dose or have reactor. For my little tank it's 5 gal a week

Marko did u get your aptasia under control

[gregzz4]

greg

i just changed out some water
S'OK
For a minute there I thought you were drinking the salt and pouring the coffee into the tank - that would explain the dementia

Hmm ... I could be on to something here. It's a global conspiracy by salt manufacturers to keep us addicted

[reefwars]

Marko did u get your aptasia under control


yes nick he did , he found out a water change was the solution to all his problems, he took out all the aiptasia rocks , did a water change and yup...no more aiptasia.....those water changes are just fricken awesome stuff:)

[reefwars]

S'OK
For a minute there I thought you were drinking the salt and pouring the coffee into the tank - that would explain the dementia

Hmm ... I could be on to something here. It's a global conspiracy by salt manufacturers to keep us addicted


heres a test take one of your saltwater fish and drop it in freshwater....wait a minute or 2 if the fish doesnt die you dont need salt in your tank....right??

this is just such a confusing hobby lol

[MarkoD]

Just FYI since my refugium light died I've been doing weekly 30 gallon water changes for the past month. Got a long hose and pump.

I shut off the valve to my fuge, drain the water, refill with new water and re open valve.

Since starting these water changes my huge elegance has closed up :(

And it solved the aptasia problem with a copperband:)

[gregzz4]

Since starting these water changes my huge elegance has closed up :(
See ? WCs are bad :rolleyes:

All kidding aside Marko, your elegance will come around, it's just not used to the lower nutrients/higher params

[reefwars]

Since starting these water changes my huge elegance has closed up :(




elegance hate changes of anykind....consider yourself lucky it didnt catch ECS , elegance was once the hardiest and most common lps around....now its very hard to find a healthy one that doesnt wipe away from ECS.


ECS can kill an elegnace in days or months.


ECS= elegance coral syndrome

[reefwars]

your elegance will come around, it's just not used to the lower nutrients/higher params


not necessarily, elegance do not heal well or take changes well, their recovery is usually long.

[gregzz4]

not necessarily, elegance do not heal well or take changes well, their recovery is usually long.
Well then lets hope his is an older critter

[reefwars]

Well then lets hope his is an older critter



marko is your elegance have slime coming off its skin or just closed up??

[MarkoD]

No slime. Just closed up.

I seems to start opening near the end of the day.

I did a freshwater dip, can't really tell if it helped.

My orange tipped elegance on the other side of the tank is doing amazing

[reefwars]

No slime. Just closed up.

I seems to start opening near the end of the day.

I did a freshwater dip, can't really tell if it helped.

My orange tipped elegance on the other side of the tank is doing amazing


keep an eye for any white slime thats the big thing with elegance , if you do see some slime dont let it stay on the elegance.

unless its cut or damaged i think youll be fine.



heres 2 excellent links on my favorite beautiful coral:)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/eb/index.php

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/132890/0



bit long of a read but interesting to see what we done to this coral in the past and where it stands today:)

[MarkoD]

Thanks :)

[reefwars]

Thanks :)


did you grab the orange elegance from AI??

[MarkoD]

did you grab the orange elegance from AI??

Nope. Picked it up from aquarium central about 6 months ago

[reefwars]

Nope. Picked it up from aquarium central about 6 months ago


nice im looking for one down in cow town but no luck , i heard there was one at AI:P


if you sell it its sold before you placed the ad just pm me :)

[MKLKT]

Hmm ... I could be on to something here. It's a global conspiracy by salt manufacturers to keep us addicted

You're just a shill for Big Salt! Ron Paul, Illuminati, Ayn Rand, etc. etc.

I almost never do water changes, I am the 1%.

[daniella3d]

The cleaner wrasse is gone. I will never buy another one since I cannot consider them reef safe any longer.

My poor clam is coming back, but it will take some time to heal all the bite marks. Today it was fully open and seamed happy despite the wounds.

Pretty sure she does water changes and she's smart enough to realize that when you visually see a fish eating your clams it's obvious what the problem is and doesn't need to start a wild goose chase.

Too bad about your wrasse daniella3d , does that mean it's for sale? :mrgreen: