Seahorse Setup ???

[UnderWorldAquatics]

I am currently designing a personal seahorse/pipefish tank, I wanted to hear any comments on my purposed setup, and any suggestions that would make it a better setup.... Thanks

So far the planned tank is limited in size to a footprint of 16"x16", as for height I was leaning towards a 30" tall tank, I know its a bit a a pain to clean but Im not too concerned with that. I was planning on having a 2"PVC overflow in the center of the tank with a 1/2" or 3/4" return going up the center of the overflow as well as a waterproof power cord for lighting. Im trying to figure out how much return circulation flow I should run, the tank would be about 33gallons, what are your opinions??? mag7, mag9, or mag12 ??? I was thinking that having the return plumbing split into 4 loc line returns would slow down the current enough while maintaining good flow rates, any input is appreciated... Around the 2"PVC overflow I was going to zap strap live rock all around it and make it look like a pillar of rock, will have a few seahorses and pipefish, and probably some macro algaes and sea grasses, along with some zoos. Given the small canopy dimensions of less than 16"x16", what lights would you recommend to light it up nice? Any suggestions would be great...
Thanks: Kyle

[EmilyB]

From the pipefish angle, I will tell you they will out-compete a seahorse for the first two mysis shrimp..... :mrgreen:

[Beverly]

Kyle,

Don't have experience with returns and related pumps, so I can't help you there.

However, everything I've read about seagrasses and zoos is that you're going to need serious MH lighting for these to thrive.

If I were setting up a new SH/pipe tank, I would go with a standard 24" long footprint and throw on some PC lighting. You could make the tank as wide as you want to accommodate the amount of lighing you think you will need for the inhabitants other than the SHs/pipes. SHs don't need lots of light, ime. The tank could still be 30" high for mating purposes of larger SHs.

One caution about breeding SHs: once they get going, you will have fry every 2 weeks or so. Rearing fry and raising the right sized foods for each brood of fry can be an all-consuming task all in itself. Have done this for 3 broods of fry, unsuccessfully, and I was a wreck from all the work :eek:

However, larger SHs, such as H. kuda or H. reidi, are typically not available in Canada except as wild caught, which can sometimes be very tricky to train them to eat frozen. Here is the SH Feeding Station Gallery for you to read through to get ideas of how to train WC to eat frozen:

http://www.lostmymarblz.com/hh-feeding-stations.htm

Here are two Canadian suppliers of captive bred SHs:

http://www.seanic.ca

http://www.aquaparadice.com/

HTH :smile:

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing EmilyB, the pipe fish would get the first few but not a big deal...
Thanks Bev, I was waiting for your reply... As for tank size I am restricted to a footprint of 16"x16", this is because I aquired a marble pillar that would allow a tank of that size to sit on it, and I can just sheet a canopy in marble to match. As for height I will probably go with 30" but am still debating 36" tall, I have long mechanical grabbers for doing maintence so its doable, but it would be a bit of a pain, on the same note, with the low amount of feeding in the tank it should keep pretty clean... I was thinking of a thin acrylic tube going down to an acrylic feeding dish with a railing around it for holding onto for a feeding station. I have raised seahorses before with pretty good success, I have the unique privledge of having an unlimited supply of Mysis Relicta in my backyard, also I have the very unique ability of being able to throw my plankton net into the lake and go trolling for live Mysis Relicta, when you throw live Mysis into saltwater they wiggle around like crazy, it drives seahorses wild... Once they start eating the live Mysis, they seem to switch over to frozen Mysis with ease. For lighting I think I am going to light it up with 8x 10Watt LED's, 4 blue and 4 white. Ill see how the LED's do and if they are not cutting it I will change to a 250W DE 10K or 14K metal halide. For flow I think I am going to go with the Mag12 unless anyone chimes in, I can always restrict the flow with a ball valve if need be. Well if anyone has any ideas that would make this setup better suited for seahorses please chime in....
Thanks

[Beverly]

As for tank size I am restricted to a footprint of 16"x16", this is because I aquired a marble pillar that would allow a tank of that size to sit on it, and I can just sheet a canopy in marble to match. As for height I will probably go with 30" but am still debating 36" tall

What species are you going to keep in this tank? Larger SHs may find the 16"x16" footprint sort of cramped. Medium sized SHs would not need the extra height. H. barbouri, a tropical species available as CB and grow to about 5"-6" need only 3 times their body height for the height of the tank. So you'd probably only need a 24" high tank maximum, depending on sandbed depth.

BTW, what species of SHs have you kept in the past?

[UnderWorldAquatics]

I had a couple red H. Reidi, and a couple of H. Kuda, gave them to a freind when I moved a few years back, still alive and well....

[reefhawk]

hey kyle, the pet store in vernon (total pet) has a couple seahorses for sale was htere today.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

thanks for the line, but I will be getting captive raised from a farm

[BCOrchidGuy]

BRAVO KYLE

Captive bred is the way to go, stores will keep buying wild caughts as long as people keep buying them.


Doug

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Thanks Doug, I think we should all be buying captive raised marine life whenever possible, its the direction this hobby needs to go in a big way... We have been playing around with the breeding and raising of a few different inverts and fish, wont say what at this time but hope to be producing substantial numbers in the near future, as well we are still plugging along with the tank raised fish, cant wait till we set it up on a larger scale.

[StirCrazy]

BRAVO KYLE

Captive bred is the way to go, stores will keep buying wild caughts as long as people keep buying them.


Doug

I see no problem with sustainable harvesting also. it is non sustainable harvesting that I have a problem with.


Steve

[Beverly]

I see no problem with sustainable harvesting also. it is non sustainable harvesting that I have a problem with.

In theory, sustainable harvesting of wild seahorses sounds like a pretty good idea. The problem begins when newly caught SHs are not fed for days prior to shipping. Once at the lfs, almost all WC SHs will only eat live food, and many, or probably most, lfs are not set up to feed anything but frozen brine and/or frozen mysis.

Seahorses have a very short intestinal tract and feed almost constantly in the wild. In a lfs that feeds once daily foods that the WC SH will probably not eat, the WCs are doomed to slow starvation.

Then a customer comes into the lfs and sees the SHs in their special tank. It is often love at first sight for the customer. The SHs will be ID-ed on the tank by a common name such as Oceanic Seahorse, Spotted Seahorse, Lined Seahorse, Pacific Seahorse, etc. The customer may or may not know anything about SHs and will probably ask a few questions. Staff at the store may know that SHs need a tank of their own, but may not know much more than that, especially dietary requirements, scientific name, or even if the SH requires tropical, sub-tropical, or temperate water temps. Staff may say that they have been feeding the WC SHs frozen brine and/or mysis, but may not know if the SHs have actually eaten any of these foods since staff move quickly from tank to tank dropping in food so they can get on with other tasks.

So the customer goes home with little to no real information about the new loves of their lives and go about putting together a tank for their soon to be new SHs. Setting up a new tank could be easy to do if the person is already a marine hobbiest and has an extra tank laying around (who doesn't?) and can scrounge LR and sandbed from an established tank or two.

A few days pass, and the new tank is ready for the SHs. The customer goes back to the lfs and notices that the SHs are getting thinner. OMG!, they think, I've especially now got to take home these darling SHs because the lfs isn't taking care of them right and I can surely do better than them.

SHs get acclimatized to the new tank and the customer tries feeding the frozen foods that the lfs says they have been feeding them. The new WCs may look at the food drifting by, but largely ignore it. After a few days of this kind of feeding, the customer contacts the lfs and says their new SHs are not eating. The lfs staffer says they should be eating brine or mysis, so the customer goes back to feeding their getting-skinnier SHs more frozen that does not get eaten.

Depending on the condition of the WC SHs when they were brought home and on how many pods are in the tank, the SHs may last a few short weeks before they eat all the pods and starve to death, never to eat frozen foods at all.

So, imo, sustainable seahorse harvesting would be a great idea if everyone involved in their care after harvesting actually knew how to care for them. However, I believe it is rare that WC SHs get the kind of care required for them to successfully make the transition from the wild to our home aquaria.

[naesco]

thanks for the line, but I will be getting captive raised from a farm

You are leading by example. Thanks for that comment.

IMO no responsible reefer would consider anything else period.

[BCOrchidGuy]

Steve, sustainable harvest is a great idea and honestly I believe the pet trade makes little impact on the wild seahorse population. The chinses medicine trade seems to be the big thing that impacts the wild population. I do however believe that captive bred is a better idea, they should be already trained to eat frozen, they should be sturdier (healthier in most if not all cases).

Doug

[Buccaneer]

Bev ... That was a highly plausable synopsis of what could happen to a WC SH ... very sad ... there was a explanation on here not long ago on captive raised fish and the low impact on the reefs broodstocks which I thought was a excellent way to promote the hobby to the next level while being responsible for our reefs.

Cheers

[Quinn]

Agreeing with what Bev said, if there is a better alternative, it should be taken. I am assuming by "sustainable collection" we are talking about something overseen by MAC. Frankly, there have been enough attacks on MACs practices, both from hobbyists and industry experts, to warrant serious doubt as to how effective/honest their certification procedures are. I am also assuming that regardless of whether MAC is involved or not, these seahorses are coming from Indonesia or the Phillipines, an area where they are already rare. If they are being sourced from Australia, I suppose it would be a different story.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

when I think of sustainable harvesting, I dont think of MAC or any other organization, I think of "sustainable harvesting" its nice when you know the persons you are getting your livestock from and how they collect said livestock. I am a big supporter of sustainable harvesting, one of the best methods of sustainable harvesting of fish in my opinion is post larval collection around the reef, and then tank raising the said fish to saleable size, this leaves all the mature breeding stock on the reef, when a species is able to be breed and raised in the aquarium, I think that is the best option, the less we are out on the reefs collecting, the better off the reefs are...

[StirCrazy]

I am assuming by "sustainable collection" we are talking about something overseen by MAC.

no sustainable harvest has nothing to do with MAC specifically, and I have reservations buying anything a money making organization pretending to look out for the hobbyist promotes. but lets leave my views on MAC aside.

I should make clear that even though this thread is about seahorses my comment on sustainable harvest was in general.
Bev, if there are issues about treatment after harvesting then that has nothing to do with sustainable harvest its self but rather should be separated in post harvest care. yes I agree there are lots of areas where this can be improved and shipping times is one area. if we are going to talk about harvesting lets keep it to harvesting.. there are many species that are harvested in numbers and manors that allow for a continuation with out any effect on wild populations and this is the definition of sustainable harvest.

SO if you look at issues properly no one (edited out bad comments by steve) because if you do then anyone who has tangs or any fish other than a captive breed fish is a hypocrite.

Steve