Diatoms...problem just won't go away.

[Snufflupagus]

Hey all,

Well I've had a diatoms problem for months now and just getting tired of dealing and looking at the stuff. Recommendations I've been told to do were:
More water changes, syphoning it out. I've been doing both religiously and the problem just won't stop. There are times that it looks like it's getting better, then a couple days later will be back in full force. Hoping someone can help me come up with an idea on how to rid this pain in the ars stuff.
Tank is 150gallons (roughly 180 total volume with sump) I'm running GFO and bio pellets (note that I'm running 1.5 cups of GFO and 2 cups of bio pellets, I'm suppose to be running 4 cups of bio pellets, but am taking it slow in getting the total amount up) I have a high bio load, but my skimmer seems to be doing a good job as I empty the cup every 2 days and it's full with good brown sludge. Flow in the tank is setup to hit all areas in the tanks so there are no dead spots.
I started to dose zeostart, zeobak and coral snow to see if this helps the problem, but I don't see any difference.
Other things I've been told to try and/or not do:
Buy some probiotic products and dose them.
Stop the biopellets
Do not stir up the sand bed

All my fish are happy and my sps and ops coral growth has never been better, they seem to be very happy. I have multiple crabs and snails in the tank for a clean up crew. I also have a sand sifting star and sand dollar in my tank.

I just got new AI LED lights (put them up yesterday) and have them running at 30% right now, at it's peak time.

My sand bed is 3" in some spots and as low as cm's in others.

I did start the tank using 60% new rock and the other 40% was from the tank I shut down. I know the problem is probably due to the newer rock, but the rock has been in e tank for a year (roughly) now.

I'll keep battling the problem, but thought I'd ask the pros if they have any other ideas on what I could be doing. Help is appreciated.

Thanks,

[marie]

Are you sure it is diatoms? Does it trap air bubbles and look a like brown snot? If it does then it might be dinoflagellates

Diatoms aren't usually a big problem in a reef tank there are so many critters that eat it, the problem doesn't last long. Dinoflagellates on the other hand are a big pain and can be challenging to get rid of

[Snufflupagus]

There used to be little bubbles, but they are all gone. Now it's just a brownish orange mat that is only on the sand bed. They almost look like tiny round pebbles on the sand bed.

[Reefie]

ZEOstart2
Intended use: Accelerates the cycling process in new tanks, color enhancer, soft coral growth and PE
Positive results: Growth , PO4 und NO3 reduction
OD Symptoms: brown film forming air bubbles at lighting period

For the substrate, I'd suggest sand sifting Goby

I could be wrong, but the lighting at 30% may increase the growth rate for Diatoms as your LED's are emitting a spectrum that Diatoms prefer? I'm light acclimating my tank also with a pair of Panorama PRO's at about 50% and I'm seeing a bit of a Diatom breakout as well.

The Coral Snow & ZEObak dosed together work towards getting rid of Cyano, not Diatoms.

Are you getting a buildup of mulm at all? You can try Bio-Mate to reduce the mulm.

[Snufflupagus]

No mulm. I guess it could be the zeostart. Also my lights have only been on for one day, I can't say they are the cause of the problem at all...yet lol
I have scooter blenny, will the goby get along with it?

[kien]

maybe post up some pictures of your diatoms?

[The Grizz]

There used to be little bubbles, but they are all gone. Now it's just a brownish orange mat that is only on the sand bed. They almost look like tiny round pebbles on the sand bed.

This is exactly what I had going on not that long ago, my problem solver was to ADD more Vertex Pellets as mine were almost depleted to nothing.

[monocus]

why don't you try an algae scrubber.also what are your water parameters.you might get a clue of what is happening

[fishytime]

how old is the tank?.......how much flow exactly do you have?.....I know you said lots, but how many GPH do you have inside the tank?....how many fish and what kind?......what do you feed and how often do you feed?......you said you used a percentage of old rock and some new rock.....was this new rock live rock or dry rock?.....when was the last time you changed your bulbs?......do you use RO water or tap water?.....does the tank receive any natural sunlight?

[Snufflupagus]

maybe post up some pictures of your diatoms?

I'll try to get a good one today when the lights come on.

[Snufflupagus]

This is exactly what I had going on not that long ago, my problem solver was to ADD more Vertex Pellets as mine were almost depleted to nothing.

Greg, I'm told I'm suppose to be a 4 cups of bio pellets in my reactor and I'm only at 2, but they told me to increase the levels slowly, maybe I'm upping the amounts to slowly?

[Snufflupagus]

why don't you try an algae scrubber.also what are your water parameters.you might get a clue of what is happening

I have a scrubber for the glass.
I will post parameters on my reply to Fishytime.

[bignose]

I have a scrubber for the glass.
I will post parameters on my reply to Fishytime.

lol this is what he means by scrubber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnysX1sLsLc

[Snufflupagus]

lol this is what he means by scrubber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnysX1sLsLc

Lol my new answer is...because I have never seen one of of those before. :)

[bignose]

Lol my new answer is...because I have never seen one of of those before. :)

I've seen them on the internet many times but not in person, I've read that they work well. I wonder if they stink.

[Aquattro]

I'm going to guess you don't have a diatom issue. I don't think I've ever seen a diatom issue in tanks older than 6 weeks. Your description also doesn't match up. Get as good a pic as you can up, let's see if we can figure out what you do have!

[Snufflupagus]

how old is the tank?.......how much flow exactly do you have?.....I know you said lots, but how many GPH do you have inside the tank?....how many fish and what kind?......what do you feed and how often do you feed?......you said you used a percentage of old rock and some new rock.....was this new rock live rock or dry rock?.....when was the last time you changed your bulbs?......do you use RO water or tap water?.....does the tank receive any natural sunlight?

Hey, long time no chat or see, hope all is well. Tank is 10 months, basically 11 months now. Flow I have a pump pushing 1800gph and 2 tunze 6105's on the tank. Fish - (5) domino damsels, (2) black and white damsels, (4) yellow with black stripe damsels, (1) regal tang, (1) purple tang, (2) black and white perc. (1) true perc. (2) tomato clowns, (1) scooter blenny, (1) six lined wrasse (2) pj cardinals. Inverts - (1) long spike urchin, (1) rbta, hermit crabs, snails...not sure on the numbers of those anymore. 7-10 of each is a good bet.
I feed flake food once a day. Once or Twice a week I feed some frozen food to my anemone, and once or twice a week I give some seaweed to the Tangs.
The new rock was dry rock. I had it cycling in my tank for about 3-4 months before putting anything into the tank. I also understand that, this is probably where my problem is coming from. Well I just changed all the bulbs because I just changed to LEDs two days ago. Yes I use RO/DI water. Tank is in my basement and gets very little to no sunlight.
Tank parameters:
Salinity - 1.022
Temp - 79 at night, 80 during the day.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate -0

I think the algae is giving me a double negative on my tests and that's why my tests are coming out at 0.

Thoughts?

[Cal_stir]

your salinity seems a bit low, what is your alk?, diatoms thrive on silicates, did you use any base rock that might be leaching silicates?

[Snufflupagus]

your salinity seems a bit low, what is your alk?, diatoms thrive on silicates, did you use any base rock that might be leaching silicates?

I just got a new Hanna Alk tester, I will test today and let you know after I test. Sorry I don't know the term base rock. If base rock is dry rock to start, then yes I did and yes it is probably producing silicates.

[Cal_stir]

I just got a new Hanna Alk tester, I will test today and let you know after I test. Sorry I don't know the term base rock. If base rock is dry rock to start, then yes I did and yes it is probably producing silicates.

Base rock is rock used at the bottom of the tank that the live rock sits on, it's not usually live rock and might contain silica.
Dry rock is OK if it is reef rock

[Snufflupagus]

Base rock is rock used at the bottom of the tank that the live rock sits on, it's not usually live rock and might contain silica.
Dry rock is OK if it is reef rock

I only have to piece of base rock in this case and they came from my other tank which was setup for 3 years before moving into this tank.

[coolhandgoose]

I'd check your ro/di water, same thing happened to me where the filters were not doing their job and the Tds was really high.

[Cal_stir]

I only have to piece of base rock in this case and they came from my other tank which was setup for 3 years before moving into this tank.

wouldn't be that then, tap water usually contains
silicates, maybe your DI isn't working

[Snufflupagus]

I'd check your ro/di water, same thing happened to me where the filters were not doing their job and the Tds was really high.

Nope I've already checked the Ro/di changed the filters about a month ago, readings are find. 0. And the phosphates coming out of the water are 0.

[Snufflupagus]

wouldn't be that then, tap water usually contains
silicates, maybe your DI isn't working

Ro/Di water tests are good.

[coolhandgoose]

Can u post pics?

[Snufflupagus]

maybe post up some pictures of your diatoms?

Hey Kien, yes hopefully this worked. See the picture below.
<a href="http://s1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/Fish%20tank/?action=view&current=0c6af681.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/Fish%20tank/0c6af681.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

[Snufflupagus]

Hey Kien, yes hopefully this worked. See the picture below.
<a href="http://s1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/Fish%20tank/?action=view&current=0c6af681.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/Fish%20tank/0c6af681.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

Well that didn't work...darn it...I'll keep trying.

[Snufflupagus]

Well that didn't work...darn it...I'll keep trying.

Maybe now...

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/Fish%20tank/0c6af681.jpg

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Cyanobacteria or maybe diatoms & cyano.

[Snufflupagus]

Cyanobacteria or maybe diatoms & cyano.

I treated the tank for cyno, and yes I did have that too. It was more red and stringy. It's all gone now but I'm left with diatoms.

[RedCoralEdmonton]

I still feel it is diatoms, and is just a cycle due to the large bioload and the lack of maturity of the tank, with so much dry rock, and without seeding it for the first 6 months, it is basically still dry rock, you need a small bioload, be it a few fish or a piece of raw shrimp, to seed that rock.... it isnt something that will go away in a week or two, and as long as everything is healthy, I wouldnt give it too much thought, it will sort itself out on its own.

Steve

[Snufflupagus]

I still feel it is diatoms, and is just a cycle due to the large bioload and the lack of maturity of the tank, with so much dry rock, and without seeding it for the first 6 months, it is basically still dry rock, you need a small bioload, be it a few fish or a piece of raw shrimp, to seed that rock.... it isnt something that will go away in a week or two, and as long as everything is healthy, I wouldnt give it too much thought, it will sort itself out on its own.

Steve

Sounds good, I'll just keep on track and let it take care of itself. Fish and corals are doing fantastic.

[Snufflupagus]

I've seen them on the internet many times but not in person, I've read that they work well. I wonder if they stink.

I'm guessing they would stink, like a skimmer, wouldn't they?

[Snufflupagus]

I'm going to guess you don't have a diatom issue. I don't think I've ever seen a diatom issue in tanks older than 6 weeks. Your description also doesn't match up. Get as good a pic as you can up, let's see if we can figure out what you do have!

I've posted a picture, and here is another one.

http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/ColinKrysa/2012%20tank/b44e0c44.jpg

[The Grizz]

That is the same junk that was ALL over my sand to. I siphoned out what I could get at & after topping up my pellets it was gone in a few week.

[Snufflupagus]

That is the same junk that was ALL over my sand to. I siphoned out what I could get at & after topping up my pellets it was gone in a few week.

Good to know Greg. I'll continue siphoning and get my pellets up to 4 cups and hopefully things will start to change.

[Oscar]

That is the same junk that was ALL over my sand to. I siphoned out what I could get at & after topping up my pellets it was gone in a few week.

Will GFO work instead of pellets?