Copperband Butterfly

[corrosionjerry]

I purchased a CB on the weekend... looked like it was eating however today it is belly up...

Reading on the net they say these fish should not be netted is there any truth to that.... reason being that is exactly how the fish was caught and bagged for me at a local NE shop on the weekend....

Not happy at the moment

[subman]

CB are very fragile fish and after losing 2 I won't waste money on them anymore. I've never heard the 'no netting' before seems like a odd statement. Imho it wasn't the net that killed your fish. Some fish shouldn't be sold and the CB is one of them.

[Reef Pilot]

I purchased a CB on the weekend... looked like it was eating however today it is belly up...

Reading on the net they say these fish should not be netted is there any truth to that.... reason being that is exactly how the fish was caught and bagged for me at a local NE shop on the weekend....

Not happy at the moment
Was it being bullied by any other fish? Yellow Tangs can be very viscous to CB's. I have owned a few CB's now, and never had one die on me. My current one is over a year old in my tank and doing great.

And netting is not harmful to them, anymore than any other fish.

You have my sympathies. They are beautiful fish.

[corrosionjerry]

No bullies the only other fish in the tank are 5 blue Chromis...

[Reef Pilot]

Don't know... Odd that he would die that quickly, and he was already eating. I can ask the obvious questions, like water parameters, but assume you already checked that. Hope the salinity of the water from your LFS was the same as yours.

[daniella3d]

That's a very good point. Sometimes the LFS keep their tanks at very low salinity, like 1.010 sometimes. If you go from this to 1.025, the difference is way too much on the fish even if you take 5 hours to acclimate it.

The only reasonable way to deal with this is to mesure the salinity in the bag and if the difference is more than 0.005 points, then lower the salinity in the quarantine tank and take a few days to raise it to normal. YOu will need to quarantine a copperband anyway, to give it a fair chance of survival and get it to eat without any other fish competition.

Don't know... Odd that he would die that quickly, and he was already eating. I can ask the obvious questions, like water parameters, but assume you already checked that. Hope the salinity of the water from your LFS was the same as yours.

[paddyob]

Not surprised.

Most people have no chance keeping them alive.

An LFS only sells them, as one said to me, "if I don't sell something then people just buy it somewhere else and I Lose sales" - this is not a perfect quote.

It's a money grab fish.

A search on here will show you. SOME people are lucky... But hearing it died is more common than hearing from the tang police.

Too bad the same people don't vocalize this topic.

Sorry for your luck, or loss of money.

[paddyob]

Was it being bullied by any other fish? Yellow Tangs can be very viscous to CB's. I have owned a few CB's now, and never had one die on me. My current one is over a year old in my tank and doing great.

And netting is not harmful to them, anymore than any other fish.

You have my sympathies. They are beautiful fish.

You returned a sick one or two I thought. Maybe I Have you mixed up with Someone else. But returning a sick fish is a loss.

[Reef Pilot]

You returned a sick one or two I thought. Maybe I Have you mixed up with Someone else. But returning a sick fish is a loss.
Yes, I returned one to the LFS, but he wasn't sick. He was my first one, and I made the mistake of putting him into my DT too early, and I couldn't get him to feed properly. The other fish would grab all the food, and he just gave up trying to compete with them. Luckily, though, I had a mature tank, and he scrounged pods and stuff in the live rock. I actually had him for about 2 months, but I could see him losing weight, so I decided to take him back. I did not have a separate quarantine tank at that time.

After that I tried again with two more, but this time I went the QT route and got them feeding and healthy. I sold one (they didn't get along together) and the other is still alive and well today in my display tank.

I explained this to you a couple times now....:neutral:

[corrosionjerry]

Yes I should of known better.... I thought with my reef tank that is mature that there would be no problem / I dripped him for a couple of hours to bring to the same salinity.... everything looked good... was pecking at the rocks and seemed to take some brine shrimp etc.... no compitition in the the tank only the Chromis and I watched as I fed ... he was definetly able to get his fair share....

Thus after reading on the net... it was stated in many posts that these fish do not tollerate netting or exposure to air... True or not?

[Casey8]

[quote=paddyob;682489]An LFS only sells them, as one said to me, "if I don't sell something then people just buy it somewhere else and I Lose sales" - this is not a perfect quote.

It's a money grab fish.



Hmmm ... it sounds very familiar to me when I was told by one of the workers at Island Pets ... never went back to that store.

[toytech]

I had one for 4 days and i watched it suddenly die , took about 20 min and no conciveable reason for it happening . Such a shame these fish are so fragile .

[paddyob]

Yes, I returned one to the LFS, but he wasn't sick. He was my first one, and I made the mistake of putting him into my DT too early, and I couldn't get him to feed properly. The other fish would grab all the food, and he just gave up trying to compete with them. Luckily, though, I had a mature tank, and he scrounged pods and stuff in the live rock. I actually had him for about 2 months, but I could see him losing weight, so I decided to take him back. I did not have a separate quarantine tank at that time.

After that I tried again with two more, but this time I went the QT route and got them feeding and healthy. I sold one (they didn't get along together) and the other is still alive and well today in my display tank.

I explained this to you a couple times now....:neutral:



Yup. Still a loss.

[paddyob]

[quote=paddyob;682489]An LFS only sells them, as one said to me, "if I don't sell something then people just buy it somewhere else and I Lose sales" - this is not a perfect quote.

It's a money grab fish.



Hmmm ... it sounds very familiar to me when I was told by one of the workers at Island Pets ... never went back to that store.



Different shop

[paddyob]

Sorry. Reef pilot. Just pointing out the fact that you are giving information out without explaining that this one you have doing well, is not your first. As your first one was clearly dying.

I feel it is important not to leave those details out when you feel the need to give advice on an expert only fish.

Leaving out the fact you had to take one back to the LFS is vital to know when a person is asking about the trials and errors.

I'll post this everytime after you!!!

Lol.

[Reef Pilot]

Sorry. Reef pilot. Just pointing out the fact that you are giving information out without explaining that this one you have doing well, is not your first. As your first one was clearly dying.

I feel it is important not to leave those details out when you feel the need to give advice on an expert only fish.

Leaving out the fact you had to take one back to the LFS is vital to know when a person is asking about the trials and errors.

I'll post this everytime after you!!!

Lol.
Well, I don't want to write a book every time I talk about CB's. People would get bored quickly. If they want more info, they can go look at my past posts. Or they can ask, and I'll be happy to refer them to some of my past posts.

The big point is that you can be successful with CB's, and I showed how with my other two. And I disagree that my first one was a loss. I did the right thing and returned him before he was too far gone. Given what I know now, I also have no doubt that I could have successfully kept him if I had a QT at that time, and applied my initial feeding techniques that worked with the other two.

I will never say CB's are easy to keep. They do require extra care and attention to get feeding properly, and then acclimatized to your display tank with all the other fish. But if you can get them to the point where they swim fearlessly throughout the tank, and aggressively feed with the other fish, then you are home free. It takes a few months, at least, but it is very rewarding in the end.

[paddyob]

A small number live compared to what sells.

It's fact.


Anyhow. Sorry Jerry. Best of luck.

[AaronH]

Once I was able to get mine to eat I tried mussels and it loves them
Now it let's me pet him when I'm feeding
Has to be one of my fav fish in the tank

[naesco]

The reality is this is an extremely difficult, as pointed out by other posters. but not impossible fish to keep.
It simply dies without any apparent reason just as the OPs did and IMO should not be available in stores for sale.
It should be available to reefers who order them in. That way fish loss will be much much lower for this species.
It follows than that it should not be recommended for dealing with aiptasia problems when there are other critters and methods available that do not sacrifice a fish.

I also agree with the comments that the very few who are presently having success keeping them have an obligation to post their failures with the species to provide reefers with a balanced view.

[patd]

Seems to me that CBB's are only one species among many that are arguably unsuitable for most keepers, given their track records. Just among the butterfly fish, there are many species one could suggest the same IMO
Why is it this seems to get pointed out when CBB's come up? Because they are more often available than some of the others?

[subman]

I think they are purchased more often. Who doesn't want a stunning fish that also helps control a pest. There are quite a few fish that should be left in the ocean but everyone thinks they know better than the next guy and they can raise it successfully.

[reefwars]

long term with this fish is horrible if someone has had this fish for over 5 yrs id like to hear about it , personally i know only one person who has been able to keep one for over 5yrs. success on this fish isnt based on a year or two its based on the lifespan the fish could have, many perople are able to get the fish to eat, but lose the fish in the first few years for unknown reasons.

[plutoniumJoe]

I've had my CBB for over 2.5years, prior to this one I losst one for no apparent reason. I had read a post by GSP about his 5th one dying after about 6 months and started to feel that this was an un-keepable fish. The big debate at that time was cyanide caught or not. I don't know if there is a way to truly tell but I think it is used to explain why some seemingly healthy fish that are eating die off after a few months.

I stayed away for a while but couldn't resist when I saw what looked like healthy CBBs that had been eating at the LFS for a week. Took one home and fed mysis to the tank at every feeding with garlic and selcon. Eventually he began to get aggressive enough and fast enough to get his fair share. Now I feed mysis 2 out of 3 days and he is fat and healthy. I would also assume that he gets what he needs in pods etc.. when I go on vacation and the tank is left to auto-feeder.

[Reef Pilot]

The reality is this is an extremely difficult, as pointed out by other posters. but not impossible fish to keep.
It simply dies without any apparent reason just as the OPs did and IMO should not be available in stores for sale.
It should be available to reefers who order them in. That way fish loss will be much much lower for this species.
It follows than that it should not be recommended for dealing with aiptasia problems when there are other critters and methods available that do not sacrifice a fish.

I also agree with the comments that the very few who are presently having success keeping them have an obligation to post their failures with the species to provide reefers with a balanced view.

Naesco, have you ever kept a Copperband? If so, what was your experience?

[paddyob]

Naesco, have you ever kept a Copperband? If so, what was your experience?

+1.

[marie]

My sole experience appears to be atypical, I bought my copperband 4 yrs ago online with no promise it was eating prepared foods (in store only 3 days). After 2 days in quarantine it started eating prepared foods and hasn't looked back since. He is my second favourite fish, with no sign of shyness and is the first at the turkey baster at feeding time

[jorjef]

My sole experience appears to be atypical, I bought my copperband 4 yrs ago online with no promise it was eating prepared foods (in store only 3 days). After 2 days in quarantine it started eating prepared foods and hasn't looked back since. He is my second favourite fish, with no sign of shyness and is the first at the turkey baster at feeding time

I just bought one about two weeks ago. The fish had just arrived at the store about 4 hours before I got there, was swimming around pecking at the live rock, seemed healthy, not shy at all. They threw in some mysis which semed to confuse him a bit, then he picked up a couple pcs. spit,bite spit bite then he ate a couple of pcs. In the bag he went and is afraid of no one in my tank. I have seem him pull Mysis from my wrasses mouth, he's like a bull in a china shop when feeding. My new favorite fish.

[naesco]

Naesco, have you ever kept a Copperband? If so, what was your experience?

Yes I have on at least one occasion possibly two many years ago. I recall that it died within a couple of weeks .

[Reef Pilot]

Yes I have on at least one occasion possibly two many years ago. I recall that it died within a couple of weeks .
Did you have it in QT? Did you get it eating, and what food?

[Proteus]

I decided to try this fish. I will only try once

My Cbb was eating in the lfs and had been there for two weeks. I took home and it was way to shy. Would not come out to feed at all. It was very nocturnal and if I looked at it it would run for the hills. I was told to try mussels. To my suprise when I dropped the mussel in it was on it instantly. Once he figured out I was there to feed him he started to come out every feeding. And now is out during lights on. The fish has improved considerably. One wrasse I have will gaurd mussel and shrimp while the Cbb eats making sure he gets his fill. Though I am suprissed with 4 clams he has never touched one.

[daniella3d]

Anyone know their livespawn in the wild?

I have mine for near a year and half, and it is my first one. He never touch any aiptasia, so it is not a good fish for controling any pest.

I know someone how kept one for more than 5 years...her first one lived 4 months, second one lived more than 5 years and the last one lived 6 months. Another friend has one for 3 years and half.



long term with this fish is horrible if someone has had this fish for over 5 yrs id like to hear about it , personally i know only one person who has been able to keep one for over 5yrs. success on this fish isnt based on a year or two its based on the lifespan the fish could have, many perople are able to get the fish to eat, but lose the fish in the first few years for unknown reasons.

[Gripenfelter]

There is one in my town that was originally ordered from JL aquatics. He's been in Winnipeg for about a year now and keeps getting passed around to people's tanks to handle feather dusters or aiptasia. Healthy and big. I would recommend a huge tank with lots of rock work for this guy.

[Proteus]

Anyone know their livespawn in the wild?

I have mine for near a year and half, and it is my first one. He never touch any aiptasia, so it is not a good fish for controling any pest.

I know someone how kept one for more than 5 years...her first one lived 4 months, second one lived more than 5 years and the last one lived 6 months. Another friend has one for 3 years and half.

I talked to a person at lfs who said that one of the tanks she maintains has a 8 year old Cbb

[naesco]

Did you have it in QT? Did you get it eating, and what food?

This would have been around 1990, I did not have a QT. It would have been flake food.
I would go to the LFS and take a look at buy anything that appeared interesting. I couldn't blame the LFS guy because I am sure he didn't know anything. How could he. There was no internet, no books other than marine books with pretty pictures but no advice on care.

[Reef Pilot]

This would have been around 1990, I did not have a QT. It would have been flake food.
I would go to the LFS and take a look at buy anything that appeared interesting. I couldn't blame the LFS guy because I am sure he didn't know anything. How could he. There was no internet, no books other than marine books with pretty pictures but no advice on care.
OK, well, I think your experience with Copperbands is not really relevant then. This fish does need extra attention at the beginning, and you can't treat it just like any other fish. Worst thing you can do is plop it into the display tank after bringing home from the LFS. If the tank bully doesn't get it, it will still be very difficult to get it feeding properly when it has to compete with other established tank mates. I think a mature tank helps too, as they really like to hunt and peck in the live rock, especially at dawn and dusk.

In the old days, too, maybe more were caught with cyanide..., who knows...

[whatcaneyedo]

Is it a new month already? I guess it must be time for another CBB thread!

I'm ashamed to say that I am on my fourth. The first one I bought within my first year and placed it into an immature 33gal, within a week it cleaned it out then starved to death. The second was big, healthy looking and eating well in my newly setup 120gal but I brought it back because it was trying to eat all of my christmas tree worms (that should have been obvious). After setting up a second tank to protect the worms I purchased a third one which seemed fine and was eating like the others but died suddenly after a week. That seller was known to bring in some questionable stuff like obviously dyed coral so I'm betting it was cyanide caught. The fourth is my current one which I bought in the summer of 2008 has been doing great. I have to feed it three times a day and it eats pretty much everything including many types of coral. When I introduced it I had to remove my purple tang for a week to allow it to settle in but they've been getting along ever since. Unlike the others this one took over a month to start eating frozen foods so I'm certain it would have starved if I had placed it in a smaller less mature tank.

I don't encourage others to try these fish and if my +3 year old should die I wouldn't replace it. I bought mine for aptasia control because I could not use peppermint shrimp and since aptasia eating nudibranches weren't available at the time. Also, at the time there was no mention of tasseled filefish as an option either.

[naesco]

OK, well, I think your experience with Copperbands is not really relevant then. This fish does need extra attention at the beginning, and you can't treat it just like any other fish. Worst thing you can do is plop it into the display tank after bringing home from the LFS. If the tank bully doesn't get it, it will still be very difficult to get it feeding properly when it has to compete with other established tank mates. I think a mature tank helps too, as they really like to hunt and peck in the live rock, especially at dawn and dusk.

In the old days, too, maybe more were caught with cyanide..., who knows...

My personal experience is not relavent but my experience on this board along with many others is.
Like most posters post their experience has been dismal.

It is not a matter of extra attention at the beginning. Face the fact that this is a very difficult fish to keep with most dying prematurely.

[Lance]

I've had mine 2.5 years. Got it from a fellow Canreefer. It would only eat fresh shellfish at the time but I eventually got it to eat any fresh or frozen meaty foods; it will not touch flakes or pellets. For a special treat I periodically place fresh clam meat in a clear pill box that I drilled 1/4 inch holes in. I place the Selcon-soaked clam in it and drop it into the tank. The other fishes can't get at the food but the CBB can get his long, narrow nose in.
I think I have been successful with mine because the fish may be retarded. It shows absolutely no fear, and will try to steal food from much larger, aggresive fishes, including a 7" Lunare Wrasse and a 6" Tuskfish. It is so stupid it once chased a piece of mysis to the overflow teeth and stood there waiting for it to reappear for a good two minutes. Meanwhile food is swirling all around it which it doesn't even notice as it is so intent in catching that mysis when it comes back out of the overflow.

[paddyob]

It is so stupid it once chased a piece of mysis to the overflow teeth and stood there waiting for it to reappear for a good two minutes. Meanwhile food is swirling all around it which it doesn't even notice as it is so intent in catching that mysis when it comes back out of the overflow.



Thats awesome! Ha ha ha!

[Tderow30]

I was also always told cbb were very hard to keep but i still wanted to give him a try. I have had him for about 5 months now and he is doing amazing. I have only 2 clowns, peppermint, cleaner shrimp and a arrow crab with him. I had no trouble getting him to eat. At the start he loved pickign at some of my soft corals but now he doesnt even touch them. He ended up cleaning my aptaisa in about 2 days and keeps the feather dusters down to a bare minium! As much as i can tell he is loving life so hopefully he stays healthy :) I will be needed to upgrade my tank in these next couple months since i do only have a 55 gal right now :O

[Reef Pilot]

My personal experience is not relavent but my experience on this board along with many others is.
Like most posters post their experience has been dismal.

It is not a matter of extra attention at the beginning. Face the fact that this is a very difficult fish to keep with most dying prematurely.

Sorry, Naesco, but first hand experience is relevant. The internet is full of self proclaimed experts who like to selectively echo what they believe or what they want others to believe.

When I talk here about Copperbands, I relate my direct experience. You should do the same. Understanding the circumstances with a failure or a success is more helpful. Let people draw their own conclusions, instead of just telling them what to think or do.

There are lots of difficult to keep fish, many much more so than Copperbands. But what helps others, is sharing information about the difficulty and how to be successful. Even you admit, that the lack of information at the time led you to do the wrong things when you first tried to keep this fish. Hopefully today, people can make better informed decisions.

[Reef Pilot]

I've had mine 2.5 years. Got it from a fellow Canreefer. It would only eat fresh shellfish at the time but I eventually got it to eat any fresh or frozen meaty foods; it will not touch flakes or pellets. For a special treat I periodically place fresh clam meat in a clear pill box that I drilled 1/4 inch holes in. I place the Selcon-soaked clam in it and drop it into the tank. The other fishes can't get at the food but the CBB can get his long, narrow nose in.
I think I have been successful with mine because the fish may be retarded. It shows absolutely no fear, and will try to steal food from much larger, aggresive fishes, including a 7" Lunare Wrasse and a 6" Tuskfish. It is so stupid it once chased a piece of mysis to the overflow teeth and stood there waiting for it to reappear for a good two minutes. Meanwhile food is swirling all around it which it doesn't even notice as it is so intent in catching that mysis when it comes back out of the overflow.

Your pill box sounds similar to what I did initially with my Copperbands. I too first used chopped up fresh clam, and then gradually introduced other foods. But like yours, mine still won't eat flake or pellet food.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQjAZjafxM

And yes, once they lose their fear, they get quite aggressive going after the food. I feed mostly dry floating food, but they are a little clumsy with their long beaks, and often miss, and just suck air. Sometimes food gets knocked up against the top glass or under the euro brace. But my Copperband will still try for it by sticking his long beak right out of the water, and spitting water. It usually works.