Frogfish maybe swallowed air?

[fishoholic]

I noticed my frogfish looked like he was floating to the top of the tank the other day, once he got to the top he'd dive back down to the bottom, only to float up again. Wasn't until he was able to move under the marco algae in the tank that he stopped floating around. I've heard of frogfish doing this when they've swallowed air, but my frogfish has been in his 10g tank for a few months now and was never exposed to air. He also hasn't eaten in the past 4 days which is very unusual for him.

I read about holding the fish by it's tail so it's mouth is facing upwards and when they fight to get away it sometimes releases the bubble. Tried this last night and he puffed himself up and opened his mouth really wide and thrashed around a bit, which freaked me out, so I let him go. Never saw a bubble come out and unfortunately because it freaked me out, I didn't try for to long. Right after that he dove down to the rocks and looked a bit better, but then shortly after that he was floating around again until he went under the marco algae.

I also read about massaging it's belly until it burps the bubble and/or whatever else out. However his mouth is pretty close to his belly so I will have to work up a lot more courage before I try that.

The odd thing is his belly doesn't really look bloated, like I think it would, if there was an air bubble in it. Which makes me wonder why on earth he's floating around and not eating, which are signs of air being swallowed. He's in a 10g by himself so it's not like he's being harassed by any other fish or anything like that. The only other thing I can think of is maybe he ate a stomatella snail? There are lots of those in the tank, most of them are pretty tiny but there are a few big ones. I haven't tested the water parameters in awhile but the coral looks ok and I do 10% weekly water changes so I don't think it's a water quality issue but I'll test and check my nitrates etc. later just to make sure.

Any thoughts/ideas? Anyone have anything similar that they went through with their fish?

[sphelps]

More likely a swim bladder thing, I've heard of the swallowing air thing but it's pretty rare and happens when you net them/remove them from the water, given the circumstances I would pursue this any further.

Honestly this is why I stopped keeping these fish, seems no matter what they become ill in some way eventually and stop eating. A lot of it seems to be tied to diet and meeting the energy requirements they need just to feed is difficult.

I can't offer anything else, perhaps there is a general treatment you can try but the problem with these fish compared to others is they stop feeding while other fish may become sick they still usually feed.

Best of luck.

[fishoholic]

Interesting, although not what I wanted to hear. Anyone have long term success with a frogfish? Or is it the norm for them to stop eating, act odd and die?

I had read about a guy who rubbed his frogfish's belly until it puked up a whole lot of stuff and he said after that his frogfish was fine. I have also that krill and silversides don't meet their diet needs because it's missing some B vitamins but I do soak my food with selcon so I think that helps.

[fishoholic]

Just went to read up on swim bladder issues with frogfish and the only frogfish that has a swim bladder is a sargassum frogfish, and mine isn't a sargassum frogfish.

[sphelps]

Just went to read up on swim bladder issues with frogfish and the only frogfish that has a swim bladder is a sargassum frogfish, and mine isn't a sargassum frogfish.

Interesting, perhaps it is some kind of trapped gas then. Is it actually having problems staying down?

[paddyob]

Following. Never heard of anybody keeping these successfully. Not for long anyhow.

Money grab fish.

[fishoholic]

Interesting, perhaps it is some kind of trapped gas then. Is it actually having problems staying down?

Yep, any time he moves out from under the macro alage he floats up to the top of the tank. He dives right back down again but continues to float back up and around until he manovers himself under the algae. I'm guessing the algae acts as a weight to hold him down :noidea:

[sphelps]

Well I think you nothing to loose really, seeing how it obviously floats and has no swim bladder it must be trap air. Use a net and see if you can get it to thrash around a bunch again. Message its belly and do whatever you can but don't freak out :lol:

Not sure there's anything else you can try, I doubt just leaving it will pay off. Best to keep trying something.

[fishoholic]

Well I think you nothing to loose really, seeing how it obviously floats and has no swim bladder it must be trap air. Use a net and see if you can get it to thrash around a bunch again. Message its belly and do whatever you can but don't freak out :lol:

Not sure there's anything else you can try, I doubt just leaving it will pay off. Best to keep trying something.

Easy for you to say when it's not your figure right by it's mouth :razz: however I will most likely try it later on today.

[sphelps]

hehe, I don't think there defense involves biting. Honestly I'd just try getting it to trash around in a net or something. Or at least do that long enough so it's pretty tired before trying to grab the tail.

[FitoPharmer]

How much are you feeding him?

When I first read up on frog fish, a very specific warning was included to not over feed them or else the built up digestion gasses will cause them to float, sometimes to the point of death.

HTH

[whatcaneyedo]

Unfortunately Michael doesn't have a whole lot on this problem in his book.

From Scott Michael's Reef Fishes Vol 1 page 338
"Frogfishes have the potentially suicidal habit of ingesting air, especially during shipping or when they are lifted from the water. For this reason, it is extremely important to keep them submerged. If you need to transfer an individual from one tank to another, use a specimen container not a net to catch and move it. If they are being transported from the store to your home, the water and the frogfish should be carefully poured from the specimen container into a plastic fish bag. When you get home, acclimate the fish, discard some of the water in the bag, then submerge the bag opening and release the frogfish into the aquarium. Although I usually do not recommend adding water from a dealer's aquarium to your own, in this case of a frogfish it is warranted. If your frogfish ingests air during the transfer, there is not much you can do. They will often succeed in expelling the air on their own, but it is not uncommon for specimens to float around until they die."

[paddyob]

Crazy. Good info.


Unfortunately Michael doesn't have a whole lot on this problem in his book.

From Scott Michael's Reef Fishes Vol 1 page 338
"Frogfishes have the potentially suicidal habit of ingesting air, especially during shipping or when they are lifted from the water. For this reason, it is extremely important to keep them submerged. If you need to transfer an individual from one tank to another, use a specimen container not a net to catch and move it. If they are being transported from the store to your home, the water and the frogfish should be carefully poured from the specimen container into a plastic fish bag. When you get home, acclimate the fish, discard some of the water in the bag, then submerge the bag opening and release the frogfish into the aquarium. Although I usually do not recommend adding water from a dealer's aquarium to your own, in this case of a frogfish it is warranted. If your frogfish ingests air during the transfer, there is not much you can do. They will often succeed in expelling the air on their own, but it is not uncommon for specimens to float around until they die."

[fishoholic]

How much are you feeding him?

When I first read up on frog fish, a very specific warning was included to not over feed them or else the built up digestion gasses will cause them to float, sometimes to the point of death.

HTH

This could be the problem, I fed him krill every other day, sometimes two pieces :redface: Any ideas on how to help him if the issue is him being overfed? He hasn't eaten in 4-5 days now so maybe the gas will work it's way out on it's own? In the future I will feed less.

Good info whatcaneyedo. I remembered reading that before I bought my frogfish and I told the lfs employee to make sure he wasn't exposed to air during the transfer, I also watched when he was bagged to make sure he wasn't and I've had him for over three months now.

[FitoPharmer]

Just cut back on his food, and make sure he is not ingesting anything in the tank. If you feed him less and his buoyancy is no longer a problem, then you know for sure it was the issue.

[fishoholic]

Just cut back on his food, and make sure he is not ingesting anything in the tank. If you feed him less and his buoyancy is no longer a problem, then you know for sure it was the issue.

Other then stomatella snails and pods there isn't anything in tank for him to eat. Definitely will cut back on future feedings.

[Delphinus]

How's the froggie doing now Laurie?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I feed only twice a week on average. Either some pieces of market prawns or rehydrated FD shrimp. If I feed more frequently, he doesn't have a strong feeding response. He'll eat 4 to 6 small FD shrimp or 3 small pieces of prawn at one sitting.

[fishoholic]

How's the froggie doing now Laurie?

He's alive but looking skinny. Hasn't eaten at all, so I've been debating adding a damsel to the tank for him to try to eat. Tried burping the air out again and rubbed his tummy briefly but it didn't seem to help. Actually seemed to make things worse, right after he floated to the top and I think he sucked some air :sad:

Was talking to fellow reefers yesterday and they asked about the flow, and when I mentioned there isn't a lot, they wondered about the amount of oxygen in the water. So I added a bubblier just in case.

[fishytime]

Was talking to fellow reefers yesterday and they asked about the flow, and when I mentioned there isn't a lot, they wondered about the amount of oxygen in the water. So I added a bubblier just in case.

for the record this wasnt my advice......adding air bubbles to a tank with a fish that isnt supposed to be exposed to air doesnt seem like a good idea to me.....put a real powerhead in the tank:razz:

[fishoholic]

for the record this wasnt my advice......adding air bubbles to a tank with a fish that isnt supposed to be exposed to air doesnt seem like a good idea to me.....put a real powerhead in the tank:razz:

And blow your candy apple zoas around all to heck and risk loosing them when they've been doing well? :razz:

For those who don't know it's a 10g with the flow from a rio nano skimmer and a koralia nano power head.

[paddyob]

So. Hows the frogfish doing?

[fishoholic]

I posted an update in my tank journal thread. He's still alive but will only eat live food now and he still floats around :sad:

Sean at AI told me about Metronidazole by seachem and mentioned that it might help, but I don't know to much about it so I haven't tried it yet.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Metronidazole.html